Current Events > before i do a blind run on dark souls 3

(+) Yeah! (+)

can i reallocate my stat points later in the game?
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Yup
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poise doesn't exist

unless they fixed it

People who say poise doesn't exist don't understand what they're talking about and were always wrong.
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Tmk posted...

People who say poise doesn't exist don't understand what they're talking about and were always wrong.

It's absolutely worthless in DS3, and armour in general is useless

TheMarthKoopa posted...

It's absolutely worthless in DS3, and armour in general is useless

Neither of those statements are true, and that's not a matter of opinion, as it deals with simple math. Armor provides % based reduction in damage. Reducing all incoming damage by, say, 25% is vastly superior to reducing it by 5%, or less.

Poise has a large impact on your ability to swing with various weapons and attacks uninterrupted.

But people just throw on Havel's, stand still and stagger to an attack and go "derp poise does nothing"

And so the meme of ignorance spreads.
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Tmk posted...

Neither of those statements are true

Both of them are true. The stat investment to wear anything heavier than the lightest stuff is ABSOLUTELY not worthwhile. It's better to just dump everything into whatever your damage is and HP to get that 1K.

The amount of points you're going to be spending to be able to take one more hit from a boss before needing estus with heavier armour is going to be enough of a reduction in your damage that it will take you significantly longer to kill the boss. Why bother? It's garbage

Poise has a large impact on your ability to swing with various weapons and attacks uninterrupted.

>Wear havel
>Attack rat
>Get interrupted

SO GOOD!

And I'm saying this as someone who wore nothing but the heaviest armour and never upgraded HP in both Dark Souls 1 AND 2, because it was actually worth the investment. In Dark Souls 3, you're only hurting yourself by spending any points at all towards equipping armour while keeping the medium roll.

TheMarthKoopa posted...

Both of them are true. The stat investment to wear anything heavier than the lightest stuff is ABSOLUTELY not worthwhile. It's better to just dump everything into whatever your damage is and HP to get that 1K.

Oh boy, you're a proponent of the 27 vig meta.

You do realise you're a laughingstock for everyone in the DS3 community who actually knows how to build a character right?

TheMarthKoopa posted...

The amount of points you're going to be spending to be able to take one more hit from a boss before needing estus with heavier armour is going to be enough of a reduction in your damage that it will take you significantly longer to kill the boss. Why bother? It's garbage

You don't need to restrict your leveling, many don't, and even if you were lots of people with restricted level builds work in heavy armor just fine. AND, since almost all heals are a fixed amount, not based on % of max HP, you get greater value from durability via damage reduction vs. higher HP.

You are very bad at math and RPG theorycrafting.

TheMarthKoopa posted...

>Wear havel
>Attack rat
>Get interrupted

SO GOOD!

You don't understand poise in any game apparently. If you have high poise and attack with a weapon that has poise, you won't be interrupted. By the way, rats in DS1 can interrupt you no matter your poise with one of their attacks. Oops.

TheMarthKoopa posted...

And I'm saying this as someone who wore nothing but the heaviest armour and never upgraded HP in both Dark Souls 1 AND 2, because it was actually worth the investment. In Dark Souls 3, you're only hurting yourself by spending any points at all towards equipping armour while keeping the medium roll.

There isn't a medium roll in Dark Souls 3. You literally are like a fountain of misinformation.
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Tmk posted...

There isn't a medium roll in Dark Souls 3.

I mean, there are three rolls and he's obviously talking about the one that's not the lightest or the heaviest
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prince_leo posted...

I mean, there are three rolls and he's obviously talking about the one that's not the lightest or the heaviest

It's completely misleading to refer to the <70% equip burden roll as "medium roll"

DS1 has a medium roll. It has different movement values and a totally different roll and different i-frames.

DS2 and DS3 do not. They have fat roll, fast roll, and then if very light on equip load, a roll that covers marginally more ground but is otherwise functionally identical. It would be more accurate to describe it as fat roll, fast roll, far roll.
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Tmk posted...

Oh boy, you're a proponent of the 27 vig meta.

The what?

20 vig + Ember = almost 1k HP. Don't need any more and every point after that is less HP gained each investment, not worth it

You don't need to restrict your leveling

I don't know what you mean by this. It's all about being the most optimal for the level you're at and reducing the need for grinding

AND, since almost all heals are a fixed amount, not based on % of max HP, you get greater value from durability via damage reduction vs. higher HP.

You are very bad at math and RPG theorycrafting.

This isn't WoW. You aren't CONSTANTLY mitigating damage and getting healed. 20 vigor is enough to not give a shit about any of this as the only thing that matters is the number of estus uses you have

By the way, rats in DS1 can interrupt you no matter your poise with one of their attacks. Oops.

Prove it

There isn't a medium roll in Dark Souls 3

Oh, you're trolling. OOPS

TheMarthKoopa posted...

The what?

20 vig + Ember = almost 1k HP. Don't need any more and every point after that is less HP gained each investment, not worth it

Wew lad.

TheMarthKoopa posted...

I don't know what you mean by this. It's all about being the most optimal for the level you're at and reducing the need for grinding

You don't have a clue about optimisation since you don't understand basic game mechanics.

TheMarthKoopa posted...

This isn't WoW. You aren't CONSTANTLY mitigating damage and getting healed. 20 vigor is enough to not give a shit about any of this as the only thing that matters is the number of estus uses you have

So proper defense and HP values don't matter unless you're constantly being hit. This is the kind of non-logic to be expected from someone this devoid of understanding how the game works.

TheMarthKoopa posted...

Prove it

It's funnier letting you go on thinking "omg a rat can stagger you in full havels in ds3 poise does nothing!!!" honestly. You're well beyond a mere lost cause at this point. Some people are just willfully completely wrong about everything.

TheMarthKoopa posted...

Oh, you're trolling. OOPS

I wish I could believe you were.
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Tmk posted...

Wew lad.

Literally who would upgrade their vigor beyond 20? Do you want to hit like a noodle? You certainly are if you're doing that AND getting equip load for armour

You don't have a clue about optimisation since you don't understand basic game mechanics.

YOU don't understand because you're putting points into your useless equipment load, which is taking away points from your damage.

You're surviving bosses by one more hit (why you even get hit so much in the first place to need this is funny) but you're needing to hit the boss three times as much as I am because your stat optimization is fucking garbage.

Tmk posted...

So proper defense and HP values don't matter unless you're constantly being hit.

Correct! The amount of defense value needed to take just one more hit from a boss means your damage is absolutely pitiful. Some REAL GOOD optimization there!

LADIES PLEASE YOU BOTH ARE UGLY SHUT UP.

caps.
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Do I have to respond to every line again to get you to make another response like that? Or is this enough. I'd like to read another hilariously misinformed post about a game you have a very loose grasp on the mechanics of, but I'm tired of basically just laughing in your face repeatedly.

Also on behalf of all invaders in DS3 I do what to thank you, because if there's one thing invaders love, it's hosts/coop phantoms who think like you. Really just ace.
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Tmk posted...

Also on behalf of all invaders in DS3 I do what to thank you, because if there's one thing invaders love, it's hosts/coop phantoms who think like you. Really just ace.

I don't play online because Souls PVP is the biggest joke in the entire history of multiplayer video game modes

You 2 are why people don't like the Souls community.
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That's the closest thing you've said to an accurate statement. Still wrong, but it's closer to reality at least.

Still though, hilarious views on poise and HP and armor, truly.
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shnangyboos posted...

You 2 are why people don't like the Souls community.

No we're not. Are you volunteering to be the next guy saying obviously wrong things though?
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wtf you mean no one raises vigor after 20

Loooool
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DezDroppedFreak posted...

wtf you mean no one raises vigor after 20

Loooool

I wish he'd go and say that on the DS3 board. They could use the laugh.
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TheMarthKoopa posted...

20 vig + Ember = almost 1k HP. Don't need any more and every point after that is less HP gained each investment, not worth it

Uhhhhhh........

TheMarthKoopa posted...

I don't play online because Souls PVP is the biggest joke in the entire history of multiplayer video game modes

Oh ok, I get it now.
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Tmk posted...

shnangyboos posted...

You 2 are why people don't like the Souls community.

No we're not. Are you volunteering to be the next guy saying obviously wrong things though?

Yes, please talk down to me about your Dark Souls knowledge.

Edit: Actually, after thinking about it, you are right, though. This type of shit is prevalent in most games, and isn't what gives the Dark Souls community a bad name.
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DezDroppedFreak posted...

wtf you mean no one raises vigor after 20

Wasted stat points. Again, you're only going to survive one more boss attack before needing an estus sip when you could be spending those points in damage to just kill them faster. 20 is the magic number for DS3

It's really no wonder that people think Dark Souls games are hard. Nobody knows how to be optimal

i'm very sorry

i didn't mean for this to happen

shnangyboos posted...

Yes, please talk down to me about your Dark Souls knowledge.

It's not really MY knowledge, it's fairly common knowledge.

It's not unreasonable to be annoyed by someone spreading misinformation about the game. The DS3 community has had a big problem with that in the past where people just lie about shit, turn it into a meme, then you have a bunch of people making uninformed choices and screwing themselves and getting frustrated because they thought they understood something but didn't because someone else who didn't understand things was pretty confidently mouthing off about it on reddit or youtube.
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Also I just want to point out, I had Marth tagged as "Bad at math/probability" From like years ago. Because I remember a topic or two where he argued for awhile so just totally off base on numbers that it just stood out to me as kind of amazing. So this is sort of like full circle for that story arc.
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TheMarthKoopa posted...

DezDroppedFreak posted...

wtf you mean no one raises vigor after 20

Wasted stat points. Again, you're only going to survive one more boss attack before needing an estus sip when you could be spending those points in damage to just kill them faster. 20 is the magic number for DS3

It's really no wonder that people think Dark Souls games are hard. Nobody knows how to be optimal

P sure almost the entire community would disagree on stopping vigor at 20 for general, all around play including pvp but thats on you mate
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Tmk posted...

Also I just want to point out, I had Marth tagged as "Bad at math/probability" From like years ago. Because I remember a topic or two where he argued for awhile so just totally off base on numbers that it just stood out to me as kind of amazing. So this is sort of like full circle for that story arc.

What would that have even been?

I have no memory of ever arguing over math and probability, because I'm not a nerd

TheMarthKoopa posted...

Tmk posted...

Also I just want to point out, I had Marth tagged as "Bad at math/probability" From like years ago. Because I remember a topic or two where he argued for awhile so just totally off base on numbers that it just stood out to me as kind of amazing. So this is sort of like full circle for that story arc.

What would that have even been?

I have no memory of ever arguing over math and probability, because I'm not a nerd

Yeah, update your tags.

Everyone knows the only tag for Marth is "weeaboo stroke totems."
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I believe the main topic was over the Monty Hall Problem.
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Poise sucks
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Irony posted...

Poise sucks

Mechanically, the way it functions in DS3 IS dumb, though few who complain about it even understand how it works. DS2 handled it way better.

It sucks in DS1 too, though for different reasons.
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Tmk posted...

Irony posted...

Poise sucks

Mechanically, the way it functions in DS3 IS dumb, though few who complain about it even understand how it works. DS2 handled it way better.

It sucks in DS1 too, though for different reasons.

Dark Souls 2 easily has the best poise. Dark Souls 1 it's way too OP and Dark Souls 3 its too unintuitive.
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Rikiaz posted...

Dark Souls 2 easily has the best poise. Dark Souls 1 it's way too OP and Dark Souls 3 its too unintuitive.

Pretty much.

Weirdly, if I had looked at the 3 systems without knowing what order they were made, I'd have assumed 2 was the last one made, because it seems like it looks at what 1 and 3 did, and went alright here's how we compromise to edge off the problems both previous systems have. But...nope, somehow, we went from 2's system, to 3's convoluted nonsense.
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Tmk posted...

Rikiaz posted...

Dark Souls 2 easily has the best poise. Dark Souls 1 it's way too OP and Dark Souls 3 its too unintuitive.

Pretty much.

Weirdly, if I had looked at the 3 systems without knowing what order they were made, I'd have assumed 2 was the last one made, because it seems like it looks at what 1 and 3 did, and went alright here's how we compromise to edge off the problems both previous systems have. But...nope, somehow, we went from 2's system, to 3's convoluted nonsense.

2 just all around has the best PvP. Nearly everything is viable and there is such a huge variety of builds.
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It also shines in more subtle ways. Like generally weapon buffs in these games are just flat AR, unaffected by the weapon or attack modifiers used. Which leads to them being disproportionately OP on quicker weapons. Which is why a 2h curved sword in DS1 buffed is so stupid.

DS2 made them affected by the strength of the weapon AND attack modifiers. That's just way better. Flat AR buffs remove a lot of the complexity weapons have.
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Tmk posted...

It also shines in more subtle ways. Like generally weapon buffs in these games are just flat AR, unaffected by the weapon or attack modifiers used. Which leads to them being disproportionately OP on quicker weapons. Which is why a 2h curved sword in DS1 buffed is so stupid.

DS2 made them affected by the strength of the weapon AND attack modifiers. That's just way better. Flat AR buffs remove a lot of the complexity weapons have.

Man DS2 gets a lot of flak but it really is fantastic in so many ways. Spell variety has never been the same either. One of my few problems with it is that some of the player movement feels a bit floaty.
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Going to DS3 I sure did miss actual hexes. The sorry excuse for dark magic in 3 does not compare.
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Tmk posted...

Going to DS3 I sure did miss actual hexes. The sorry excuse for dark magic in 3 does not compare.

I think it's fine to split them up into dark sorceries, pyromancies, and miracles, but we lost a huge variety of them for no reason I can tell aside from "DS2 sux".
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DS3 from DS2 is a great example of throwing the baby out with the bathwater basically. So let's lose a bunch of spells, basically a spell school too, a weapon type, the ability to powerstance, the concept of more than just a few headpieces granting special effects, the way poise worked, left-handed full movesets, bonfire ascetics, DLC boss AI for coop that regularly cycled targets to hard counter hosts or casters in general cowering out of range and never having to actually fight, greater diversity in weapon class movesets, greataxes not just inherently sucking for moveset variety, long term online multiplayer rewards in the form of those aura changes to your phantom, the superior weapon buff formula, actually distinct covenants and covenant roles instead of DS3's approach of "choose what color your invader phantom is!", PvE covenants, NG+~ extra content, the concept of items awarded for multiplayer that have a functional use (like Tokens of Fidelity).

I mean I thought sequels were supposed to build off of the previous games, not hack off huge chunks of how the last game improved things.
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And then there's just stupid things. Like in DS2, okay, blues can auto-summon in to help a host fight off an invader, and in doing so, the blue is not hostile to PvE, unless the host used a seed to make it hostile to the invader too. Good. So the blue is there solely to fight the invader. Alright.

DS3 changes it where blues are by default hostile to PvE, making them just a shitty white phantom who can't help you with the boss. And they share spawn points with invaders, and those spawn points are sometimes right in the middle of PvEnemies so they can get ganked on spawn. Bang up job there guys.
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Tmk posted...

NG+~ extra content

This, this right here is the biggest fucking thing that pisses me off about Bloodborne and DS3, DS1 it's excusable since it was before the feature was introduced. Why would you not do this? There is no reason to not. It made NG+ so much more enjoyable just having it be even slightly different.
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At least Nioh does that stuff too.
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I haven't played Nioh yet. Is it actually good? I hear conflicting things about it.
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It's a very polarising game. It's good at what it goes for. It's a Soulslike, but with plenty of its own identity too, and as much of a Soulslike it is, it's also a loot game. So, if you're not into Diablo style loot systems (albeit a very forgiving one, at least), that is gonna be a big bother.

If you like the world of Souls being connected, Nioh is not, missions, while repeatedable, are all separate and accessed via a map screen.

If you like a hands off approach to storytelling and lore, Nioh is not that. It has a very traditional storytelling style with lots of cutscenes, and it is HEAVY on Japanese folklore and embellished history.

Beyond these very important differences, Nioh also has big shortcomings. While it's a long game, it is repetitive. It has 7 total different weapon classes (though each is more complex by far than a Dark Souls weapon class, even a Bloodborne weapon isn't as complex, but still..). The enemy variety is not up to match the amount of content so you will find enemies repetitive, bosses reused. Environments, too, get reused, as do boss themes a lot.

And, if you like PvP a lot, especially invasions: Nioh is more a PvE game. It's way better for coop, though, than Dark Souls. But, there's no invasions. They did add and tweak dueling, separate from PvE, if you want that. But no invasions.

Those are the main causes for people to not be super into it, even if they like Souls.

Beyond that, Nioh plays similar to Souls. You have your stamina management, your attributes you level up one at a time, at shrines that function like bonfires, you drop your EXP that's not spent on death and are more frail after dying until recovering it and if you die again first it's lost, there's plenty of shortcuts to open to make progress for even if you die, combat is focused a lot on being observant, reserved, managing stamina, dodging to make use of i-frames, blocking, finding openings (or making them) to attack, just generally learning patterns. Two attributes are based on essentially different kinds of spells you can attune at shrines that have finite uses but recharge on death/resting at the shrine. Players in other worlds who died may leave a gravestone in your world where they died to tell you how they died. You can use a finite resource you can farm if you must to summon a random other player to help you who will depart after beating the boss of the area...

But Nioh also has plenty of its own ideas. Like those gravestones for player deaths, you can summon an AI controlled version of the player, fight them for a chance at loot drops of what they had equipped, and the resource used to summon helper players. You have a guardian spirit, which is lost on death but comes back if you die again, or retrieve your grave, and it affords many different passives to you. There are many different kinds of guardian spirits that can have a large impact on how you play. They also play into "Living Weapon" which is a powered up mode you can occasionally enter temporarily that is sooort of like a super mode, of sorts. It has its own layers of complexity.

Weapons classes have skill trees you slowly unlock that afford you new moves with some degree of customisation. Enemies have stamina too and you can see it when locked on just like HP and this has a huge impact on the flow of battle because attacks, blocked or not, damage ki too, and depleting someone's ki like that basically allows you to riposte them, or riposte you if it happens to you.

And, Nioh is designed to be played long term, through many NG+'s. New enemy placements and whole concepts get introduced as you progress through NG+'s. The final is introduced in NG+++.

Nioh has a substantially large "endgame" compared to From Software's Souls games.

So, if its weak points and differences aren't deal breakers for you, and some of its new/different ideas I covered (there's more, can't cover it all) appeal, then you might like it.
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Sounds cool as heck. I can tell why people who just wanted Samurai Dark Souls would be disappointed but it sounds cool to me.
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I love you