Current Events > Wow, Asians really do get hit hard by affirmative action

(+) Yeah! (+)

I was interested in the subject after Harvard had that lawsuit recently, so I decided to look up medical school acceptance rates based on academics and ethnicity. It's almost cruel how high the standards are for Asian applicants.

I had an MCAT of 30 and a GPA of 3.4 and had a hell of a time getting in.
---

model minority is a bitch
---

Muffinz0rz posted...

model minority is a bitch

---

Such bullshit, not even just for asians, but for society too. We're depriving society of the best doctors because of political correctness. Honestly, fuck this.
---

On_The_Edge posted...

Such bullshit, not even just for asians, but for society too. We're depriving society of the best doctors because of political correctness. Honestly, fuck this.

As an Asian it sucks that we're kept to such a high standard but realistically I'm okay with it because Asians seem to be doing okay with that

My biggest problem is how all of this ignores South and Southeast Asians by lumping them in together with East Asians
---

This in now way indicates demographics actually in medical school, or any school. A vast majority of the non-white students are Asian. I'm betting that taking the two polar opposite results on this chart that there is close to a 300 to 1 ratio of Asian to black applicants. Even if more than twice as many Asian applicants actually get in(in reality the disparity is bigger) the ratio of accepted applicants looks bad and skewed towards blacks. This is what Harvard meant by the plaintiffs playing with numbers.

If these schools want a diverse campus, they have to consider race.

how is this acceptable to anyone with more than two brain cells to rub together

Oh_Boy_ posted...

This in now way indicates demographics actually in medical school, or any school. A vast majority of the non-white students are Asian. I'm betting that taking the two polar opposite results on this chart that there is close to a 300 to 1 ratio of Asian to black applicants. Even if more than twice as many Asian applicants actually get in(in reality the disparity is bigger) the ratio of accepted applicants looks bad and skewed towards blacks. This is what Harvard meant by the plaintiffs playing with numbers.

If these schools want a diverse campus, they have to consider race.

Yeah I'm curious about the number of people in each category applied vs how many hot accepted. It could be the same situation with black men being the majority in the nba vs how many non black men actually try to get in.
---

Man, with a nearly perfect application it's still 50/50
---

Oh_Boy_ posted...

This in now way indicates demographics actually in medical school, or any school

No one said it did. They're talking about acceptance rates, not how many people from each made up group goes to the school.

Oh_Boy_ posted...

If these schools want a diverse campus, they have to consider race.

This is true, at the end of the day unless you're flipping a coin for each application, you have to discriminate on some basis, and the tricky thing is figuring out what discrimination is considered fair or unfair.
---

Coffeebeanz are you white?
---

KStateKing17 posted...

Oh_Boy_ posted...

This in now way indicates demographics actually in medical school, or any school. A vast majority of the non-white students are Asian. I'm betting that taking the two polar opposite results on this chart that there is close to a 300 to 1 ratio of Asian to black applicants. Even if more than twice as many Asian applicants actually get in(in reality the disparity is bigger) the ratio of accepted applicants looks bad and skewed towards blacks. This is what Harvard meant by the plaintiffs playing with numbers.

If these schools want a diverse campus, they have to consider race.

Yeah I'm curious about the number of people in each category applied vs how many hot accepted. It could be the same situation with black men being the majority in the nba vs how many non black men actually try to get in.

As someone who actually recognizes and speaks up for Asians when they're discriminated against, I agree 100%. The pool of black applicants to these schools is microscopic, and the pool of Asian applicants is the opposite, dwarfing every other race. the number of actual Asian students is very high, despite them being less than 7% of the U.S. population in total they make up as much as 30% of students at many schools.

Obviously, they're being rejected at higher rates, but that's because the schools want to shape their own student body and they more heavily filter the more numerous applicant pools. This whole issue is framed as specifically, Ivy League schools unfairly rejecting Asians to make room for black people(who didn't see that coming?). Whites benefit the most from this type of selectivity, especially ones who get in due to legacy status or their parents' wallet(25% of most Ivy schools).

Even AA itself benefits white women and gay white men more than the people it was meant to help. And Asians don't live in some meritocracy bubble out here, they face very hard discrimination at work compared to a white of equal intelligence, work ethic and educational background. They're actually poorer and have lower career trajectories than a comparable white person, but because socially "good" stereotypes are always attached to them, they bury their heads to this fact.
---

Patty_Fleur posted...

Coffeebeanz are you white?

I'm half Chinese.
---

What always bugged me growing up was that if you do well at anything, it's because you are Asian.

Asian gets 100 on Calculus test? Eh whatever he's Asian

White guy gets 90 on Calculus test? Omg he's so smart!
---

TomNook20 posted...

Oh_Boy_ posted...

This in now way indicates demographics actually in medical school, or any school

No one said it did. They're talking about acceptance rates, not how many people from each made up group goes to the school.

Oh_Boy_ posted...

If these schools want a diverse campus, they have to consider race.

This is true, at the end of the day unless you're flipping a coin for each application, you have to discriminate on some basis, and the tricky thing is figuring out what discrimination is considered fair or unfair.

Even without such strict discrimination, If every race was screened the same...Asians would still have by far the worst looking acceptance rate. This being the only angle of attack looks not so great for the argument. Assuming that Harvard and other schools were filtering all applications equally, the Asian acceptance rate would go up by maybe 1 or 2%. I know that you wouldn't be happy with that either, but it is what it is.
---

If there's one area where there should be pure meritocracy over affirmative action, it's medicine.
---

Coffeebeanz posted...

Patty_Fleur posted...

Coffeebeanz are you white?

I'm half Chinese.

lmao, r/hapas in the house. explains alot.

People usually find out when they ask why I know Mandarin.
---

Fony posted...

Asians would still have by far the worst looking acceptance rate

If you were to create a table just like in the OP without any preference given to any race, the acceptance rates would be the same for all races, all else equal.
---

TomNook20 posted...

Fony posted...

Asians would still have by far the worst looking acceptance rate

If you were to create a table just like in the OP without any preference given to any race, the acceptance rates would be the same for all races, all else equal.

Impossible because of inequality in applications. For example, the black rate is between 50 and 80%. You can't even admit 50% of Asian applicants because it exceeds student vacancies. I guess schools could physically expand the campus and hire more staff...

Also, for those with the illusion that blacks are shown preference, there are so few black applicants to these schools that any school can admit 100% of them and still have several times more white and Asian students.
---

Fony posted...

This whole issue is framed as specifically, Ivy League schools unfairly rejecting Asians to make room for black people

Reminder: Model minority myth was developed as a way to pit Asians and black people against each other by directly comparing them with pointed language in press and media, despite societal revulsion toward both.
---

Fony posted...

TomNook20 posted...

Fony posted...

Asians would still have by far the worst looking acceptance rate

If you were to create a table just like in the OP without any preference given to any race, the acceptance rates would be the same for all races, all else equal.

Impossible because of inequality in applications. For example, the black rate is between 50 and 80%. You can't even admit 50% of Asian applicants because it exceeds student vacancies. I guess schools could physically expand the campus and hire more staff...

Also, for those with the illusion that blacks are shown preference, there are so few black applicants to these schools that any school can admit 100% of them and still have several times more white and Asian students.

He's saying that each individual applicant in a specific score/GPA bracket would have the same odds of getting in.
---

Black students are the most likely to practice in black communities.
Also the reason Native Americans are basically automatically accepted.

Lowering the acceptance rates of minorities will deprive minority communities of doctors they need.
---

TomNook20 posted...

Fony posted...

Asians would still have by far the worst looking acceptance rate

If you were to create a table just like in the OP without any preference given to any race, the acceptance rates would be the same for all races, all else equal.

I mean would it really? Like it was said before, it looks like that chart is showing what percentage of each race gets through based off the number of applicants. Say 20 people apply for something with 10 asians and 5 black people. If three from both of those groups get in, the black group would still have a higher percentage.
---

Fony posted...

Impossible because of applicant inequality in applications. for example, the black rate is between 50 and 80%. you can't even admit 50% of Asian applicants because it exceeds student vacancies.

You wouldn't admit 50%, you'd admit an equal percentage to each group. How large or small a group is is not relevant for that.
---

Muffinz0rz posted...

model minority is a bitch

I still think the notion of calling Asians minorities is hilarious when more than half of Earthlings are Asian.
---

Coffeebeanz posted...

Fony posted...

TomNook20 posted...

Fony posted...

Asians would still have by far the worst looking acceptance rate

If you were to create a table just like in the OP without any preference given to any race, the acceptance rates would be the same for all races, all else equal.

Impossible because of inequality in applications. For example, the black rate is between 50 and 80%. You can't even admit 50% of Asian applicants because it exceeds student vacancies. I guess schools could physically expand the campus and hire more staff...

Also, for those with the illusion that blacks are shown preference, there are so few black applicants to these schools that any school can admit 100% of them and still have several times more white and Asian students.

He's saying that each individual applicant in a specific score/GPA bracket would have the same odds of getting in.

If every single person regardless of race had a 10%, 20%, 30%, or whatever shot...the rate as seen in this chart would-still-be-the-same because the most important factor in this rate is the number of applicants per race, that's how they're getting these numbers in the first place.

If colleges want to really "keep Asians out" and limit the number of applicants all together then the rate would look better...but that would be real hard racism, literally robbing Asians of the chance to even shoot their shot.

If Asians had a higher chance to get ion to college at any given GPA bracket, they would STILL show such dysmal numbers on a chart like this because of how the numbers are obtained. Asians are actually very, very disproportionately over represented in higher education. And i'm not complaining about that, no one is.
---

TomNook20 posted...

Fony posted...

Impossible because of applicant inequality in applications. for example, the black rate is between 50 and 80%. you can't even admit 50% of Asian applicants because it exceeds student vacancies.

You wouldn't admit 50%, you'd admit an equal percentage to each group. How large or small a group is is not relevant for that.

Not possible.
---

Fony posted...

If every single person regardless of race had a 10%, 20%, 30%, or whatever shot...the rate as seen in this chart would-still-be-the-same because the most important factor in this rate is the number of applicants per race, that's how they're getting these numbers in the first place.

No they would be equal. The number of people in each group is irrelevant to the discussion.

If you accept 100 people with no regards to race, and everything else about them is equal, and you have 200 applicants, 50 from each "race" (bleh I feel disgusting just using that word, but w/e), the acceptance rate for each group will be 50%, same as the total acceptance rate.

Now say you have the same scenario, but this time you have twice as many asian people. So 250 applicants total, 100 asian, 50 for each of the others. The acceptance rate will be 40% for each group, same as the total acceptance rate.
---

Fony posted...

Not possible.

What's not possible? Math?
---

This is fucked up
---

did you guys really not know about this stuff

i thought most people knew they were just okay with it like most racism
---

Lol
---

TomNook20 posted...

Fony posted...

If every single person regardless of race had a 10%, 20%, 30%, or whatever shot...the rate as seen in this chart would-still-be-the-same because the most important factor in this rate is the number of applicants per race, that's how they're getting these numbers in the first place.

No they would be equal. The number of people in each group is irrelevant to the discussion.

If you accept 100 people with no regards to race, and everything else about them is equal, and you have 200 applicants, 50 from each "race" (bleh I feel disgusting just using that word, but w/e), the acceptance rate for each group will be 50%, same as the total acceptance rate.

Now say you have the same scenario, but this time you have twice as many asian people. So 250 applicants total, 100 asian, 50 for each of the others. The acceptance rate will be 40% for each group, same as the total acceptance rate.

Except you aren't getting 100 Asians and 50 African Americans, you're getting 5,000 Asians and 50 African Americans. There's enormous disparity in application rate.
---

Fuparulez posted...

Except you aren't getting 100 Asians and 50 African Americans, you're getting 5,000 Asians and 50 African Americans. There's enormous disparity in application rate.

Regardless of what the numbers are, that doesn't change that the percentages would still be equal if everything else is equal.
---

TomNook20 posted...

Fuparulez posted...

Except you aren't getting 100 Asians and 50 African Americans, you're getting 5,000 Asians and 50 African Americans. There's enormous disparity in application rate.

Regardless of what the numbers are, that doesn't change that the percentages would still be equal if everything else is equal.

duh
---

KStateKing17 posted...

duh

I would think so. I can't believe people are trying to argue this.
---

TomNook20 posted...

the tricky thing is figuring out what discrimination is considered fair or unfair.

well blacks are on the bare minimum tolerance list and asians are not. so its not that hard to figure out. its why when america says "diversity", it doesn't include asians.
---

ModLogic posted...

TomNook20 posted...

the tricky thing is figuring out what discrimination is considered fair or unfair.

well blacks are on the bare minimum tolerance list and asians are not. so its not that hard to figure out. its why when america says "diversity", it doesn't include asians.

Asians: white until it matters
---

Brilliant. Lets lower standards and set PC racial quotas for something as life and death as medical school. Unbelievable. I dont want to be treated by the affirmative action doctor.
---

tennisdude818 posted...

I dont want to be treated by the affirmative action doctor.

How are you going to know that they are "affirmative action"? Are you going to reject every Black doctor that comes your way?
---

Solar_Crimson posted...

tennisdude818 posted...

I dont want to be treated by the affirmative action doctor.

How are you going to know that they are "affirmative action"? Are you going to reject every Black doctor that comes your way?

No. I don't want to discriminate by race like an AA apologist.
---

It's pretty amazing that someone decided to mention acceptance rates and not even something as basic as the number of applicants per group, among other things. If I pulled that kind of extremely lazy statistics shit in any paper I submitted for conferences or even a workshop (where you pretty much can just vomit out text about what you plan on doing in the near future and brainstorm with others), I would get my ass torn to shreds in reviews.

You'd also think someone who took the MCAT would have better critical thinking skills and look up supplemental information but its Coffeebeanz, so I'm gonna guess that data was probably included on whatever website she originally found it on but she left it out and then hosted it on imgtc to get rid of the url

Because we all need attention on CE sometimes
---

MacadamianNut3 posted...

It's pretty amazing that someone decided to mention acceptance rates and not even something as basic as the number of applicants per group, among other things. If I pulled that kind of extremely lazy statistics shit in any paper I submitted for conferences or even a workshop (where you pretty much can just vomit out text about what you plan on doing in the near future and brainstorm with others), I would get my ass torn to shreds in reviews.

You'd also think someone who took the MCAT would have better critical thinking skills and look up supplemental information but its Coffeebeanz, so I'm gonna guess that data was probably included on whatever website she originally found it on but she left it out and then hosted it on imgtc to get rid of the url

Because we all need attention on CE sometimes

so are you saying she needs some meds?
---

foreveraIone posted...

so are you saying she needs some meds?

Either that or it's pretty obvious now why she had a "hell of a time" getting into medical school
---

Its bullshit. People should stop applying to medical school. Theres way cooler shit to study out there.
---

tennisdude818 posted...

Brilliant. Lets lower standards and set PC racial quotas for something as life and death as medical school. Unbelievable. I dont want to be treated by the affirmative action doctor.

Lmao of course you wouldn't wanna be treated by one
---

tennisdude818 posted...

Brilliant. Lets lower standards and set PC racial quotas for something as life and death as medical school. Unbelievable. I dont want to be treated by the affirmative action doctor.

Oh man if you're super concerned about a lower GPA/MCAT score black or hispanic doctor out there roaming around (I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt that you have no problem with anybody in that higher tier of scores treating you regardless of race), you should also be super curious for more info to help pinpoint these AA doctors who made it through medical school but are still subpar at what they do because of......GPA/MCAT scores from some amount of years ago

And then also hope that when they are found, they aren't replaced by a white or asian doctor who was in the same tier. That would be one hell of a twist
---

Muffinz0rz posted...

model minority is a bitch

---

MacadamianNut3 posted...

It's pretty amazing that someone decided to mention acceptance rates and not even something as basic as the number of applicants per group, among other things. If I pulled that kind of extremely lazy statistics shit in any paper I submitted for conferences or even a workshop (where you pretty much can just vomit out text about what you plan on doing in the near future and brainstorm with others), I would get my ass torn to shreds in reviews.

You'd also think someone who took the MCAT would have better critical thinking skills and look up supplemental information but its Coffeebeanz, so I'm gonna guess that data was probably included on whatever website she originally found it on but she left it out and then hosted it on imgtc to get rid of the url

Because we all need attention on CE sometimes

This. Let's compare an applicant pool of 100 asians to 7 blacks.
---