Current Events > Does the Far-Left ever have a chance of winning an election in any country?

(+) Yeah! (+)

This of course is relative to whatever country I am talking about, but it seems to me that far left politics, while it may work on a local level and even a state, seems to fall apart the more of a nation you include into it. I haven't done all that much research into thing mind you, and I'm not indicting the far left of any country, but in a time where far-right sentiments are surging, far-left sentiments are floundering.

If I have a suggestion this might be a result as of the very nature of against/for.

A far right coalition might be anti-immigrant, but someone who is not as anti-immigrant as them isn't necessarily an enemy, unless their lack of anti immigrant sentiment makes them turn away from their whole ideology.

However, if you're say promoting LGBTQ rights, it doesn't matter if someone agrees with you on everything but the T, that person can't be supported because they are presumably certain going to be bad for transgender rights. Once again, I'm not saying that this is a bad thing, but the very nature of that realization, whether it be that or the economy or #metoo or BLM means that infighting is almost always going to be prevalent and no message will ever be good enough.

This isn't to say far-right infighting doesn't exist, but the prospect of "If we don't work together, the left will take our guns/do something else that is horrible", is simply a good way to get people to put aside their differences.

What does CE think?
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Nope good thing the left hasn't been taken over by the far left. Too bad the right couldn't keep the far right in check.
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France, probably.

byron posted...

LGBTQ rights are considered "far left"?

Only in America, and actual shithole countries
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AdviceMan posted...

However, if you're say promoting LGBTQ rights, it doesn't matter if someone agrees with you on everything but the T, that person can't be supported because they are presumably certain going to be bad for transgender rights. Once again, I'm not saying that this is a bad thing, but the very nature of that realization, whether it be that or the economy or #metoo or BLM means that infighting is almost always going to be prevalent and no message will ever be good enough.

this is identity politics, which exists everywhere on the political spectrum.

a big concept among the left is "critical support" you can support something (a person, a country, a concept) while still acknowledging that it has flaws.

that being said, the main reason far left politics have historically fallen apart at the national level is interference from the US and US-backed terrorist groups.
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averagejoel posted...

that being said, the main reason far left politics have historically fallen apart at the national level is interference from the US and US-backed terrorist groups.

lmao
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averagejoel posted...

a big concept among the left is "critical support" you can support something (a person, a country, a concept) while still acknowledging that it has flaws.

im a liberal but this simply isn't true

conservatives do this but we don't (as a whole)

RebelElite791 posted...

averagejoel posted...

that being said, the main reason far left politics have historically fallen apart at the national level is interference from the US and US-backed terrorist groups.

lmao

Do you know what cointelpro is?
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RebelElite791 posted...

averagejoel posted...

that being said, the main reason far left politics have historically fallen apart at the national level is interference from the US and US-backed terrorist groups.

lmao

he is delusional. every time he tries to defend that horse shit he just pastes a bunch of wikipedia links that don't even agree with him.
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Venezuela.
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YoungMakaiyum posted...

im a liberal but this simply isn't true

He was talking about the left
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Antifar posted...

YoungMakaiyum posted...

im a liberal but this simply isn't true

He was talking about the left

xd

byron posted...

LGBTQ rights are considered "far left"?

forcing LGBT on others is far left
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YoungMakaiyum posted...

averagejoel posted...

a big concept among the left is "critical support" you can support something (a person, a country, a concept) while still acknowledging that it has flaws.

im a liberal but this simply isn't true

conservatives do this but we don't (as a whole)

I wasn't talking about liberals but ok

any leftists who live in imperialist and/or colonized nations (e.g. the US, Canada, Britain) basically need to compensate somewhere if they want to support anyone politically. Bernie Sanders is barely left of center, but leftists are supporting him because he's pretty much the closest thing to an actual leftist in US politics
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averagejoel posted...

Bernie Sanders is barely left of center

lmfao
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only way an actual far left candidate would get into office in the US is with a coup d'etat
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RebelElite791 posted...

averagejoel posted...

that being said, the main reason far left politics have historically fallen apart at the national level is interference from the US and US-backed terrorist groups.

lmao

can you name some examples of countries with current or former leftist leaders that the US did not interfere with? I can name 10 off the top of my head whose primary obstacle to prosperity was (or is) the US.
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Paper_Okami posted...

RebelElite791 posted...

averagejoel posted...

that being said, the main reason far left politics have historically fallen apart at the national level is interference from the US and US-backed terrorist groups.

lmao

Do you know what cointelpro is?

cointel pro is aimed at domestic activism, averagejoel is talking about international espionage/warmongering/etc
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anyway even if we do interfere in international politics, it doesn't make sense to say that is the main obstacle facing leftist regimes when covert politicking happens in every system regardless of ideology

or if that is the main obstacle then leftism is an incredibly fragile political program which is problematic
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Well maybe the u.s should stop sticking their nose in everything
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Paper_Okami posted...

Well maybe the u.s should stop sticking their nose in everything

but then France and the UK would get to choose the new regime without our input
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Balrog0 posted...

Paper_Okami posted...

Well maybe the u.s should stop sticking their nose in everything

but then France and the UK would get to choose the new regime without our input

They shouldn't either
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But then Russia and China will get their first draft picks
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Balrog0 posted...

anyway even if we do interfere in international politics, it doesn't make sense to say that is the main obstacle facing leftist regimes when covert politicking happens in every system regardless of ideology

it's generally not done by anyone else to the same extent that the US does it though

or if that is the main obstacle then leftism is an incredibly fragile political program which is problematic

it's not the political program that's the problem. the US has the largest, most well-funded military in history, while most countries that elect socialist leaders have been relatively poor and under-developed on account of having their resources stripped (which, FYI, is largely how the currently wealthy countries became wealthy in the first place)
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averagejoel posted...

it's generally not done by anyone else to the same extent that the US does it though

France has been doing it longer than we have, and does it aggressively even when we don't want them to, as I'm sure you know

averagejoel posted...

it's not the political program that's the problem. the US has the largest, most well-funded military in history, while most countries that elect socialist leaders have been relatively poor and under-developed on account of having their resources stripped (which, FYI, is largely how the currently wealthy countries became wealthy in the first place)

difference in opinion over what politics is meant to address I guess
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byron posted...

MedzXVIII posted...

byron posted...

LGBTQ rights are considered "far left"?

forcing LGBT on others is far left

How is it being forced on others?

Girls are forced to compete against guys in sports.
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Balrog0 posted...

France has been doing it longer than we have, and does it aggressively even when we don't want them to, as I'm sure you know

the US is currently the biggest aggressor, but that doesn't mean Britain or France is off the hook. far from it.

difference in opinion over what politics is meant to address I guess

do you seriously think the difficulty for impoverished nations in resisting the US military comes from the ideology of their leaders? because, objectively, that is not the reason.
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averagejoel posted...

do you seriously think the difficulty for impoverished nations in resisting the US military comes from the ideology of their leaders? because, objectively, that is not the reason.

No, and that's also not what I said. I don't think politics is about ideology, it is about material conditions. You're acting like a socialist leader just sits on a soapbox and talks about shit. I don't think politics is primarily about what you think. So I don't think you can pretend there are exogenous problems 'out there' that your politics doesn't need to deal with because it isn't your fault or someone else is doing it or whatever. Everything is endogenous.
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I think another disagreement that is more fundamental is probably over 'human nature' though I don't use that term to mean some immutable condition that is built into humans. But I have noticed that leftists have a tendency to act like they think all or at least a lot of our social ills are due to elites fostering propaganda among the masses.

That does happen, but I don't think that it creates anything. Elites stoke fears that are already there, and it isn't like these socialist countries build a perfect consensus for their leftist leader and their leftist policies. Internal divisions are what leave space for imperialist countries to maneuver. It is an intractable political problem for every system, but especially for systems like socialism whose goal is ultimately to dismantle the formal government organizations as we know them
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Socialist countries don't collapse because of the US military. They collapse because of socialism.
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FLUFFYGERM posted...

Socialist countries don't collapse because of the US military. They collapse because of socialism.

Obligatory:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3c8Gkm8VSLE" data-time="

byron posted...

LGBTQ rights are considered "far left"?

LGB, probably not, that's just everything center and left of that. T, perhaps.
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Balrog0 posted...

averagejoel posted...

do you seriously think the difficulty for impoverished nations in resisting the US military comes from the ideology of their leaders? because, objectively, that is not the reason.

No, and that's also not what I said. I don't think politics is about ideology, it is about material conditions. You're acting like a socialist leader just sits on a soapbox and talks about shit. I don't think politics is primarily about what you think. So I don't think you can pretend there are exogenous problems 'out there' that your politics doesn't need to deal with because it isn't your fault or someone else is doing it or whatever. Everything is endogenous.

acknowledging the existence of exogenous problems (which actually do exist) is not the same thing as saying those problems don't need to be dealt with. they absolutely do, and there are some examples of countries resisting US imperialism Vietnam, Cuba, and the DPRK, for instance. the US has a massive material advantage over all of them though, and trying to pin blame on the country (its people, its state, its military, whatever) for being unable to withstand that is extremely disingenuous.
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Canada
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averagejoel posted...

acknowledging the existence of exogenous problems (which actually do exist) is not the same thing as saying those problems don't need to be dealt with. they absolutely do, and there are some examples of countries resisting US imperialism Vietnam, Cuba, and the DPRK, for instance. the US has a massive material advantage over all of them though, and trying to pin blame on the country (its people, its state, its military, whatever) for being unable to withstand that is extremely disingenuous.

How am I assigning blame? I said it was a fragile political program because of this, and you said it wasn't because the U.S. is to blame. I'm saying that is a disagreement between us over what political programs are meant to address, I'm not saying those countries are at fault for the U.S. military campaigns.

though I guess to be clear I'm not saying they are fragile because of the U.S. specifically, it is a broader problem with far more players than just the U.S. and becomes increasingly so every day as the U.S. recedes as the world superpower
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