Current Events > Controversial Opinion: I believe sex offenders can change.

(+) Yeah! (+)

And no, I'm not talking about the "pissed on the side of a building while drunk" kind of sex offenders, either.

I work with a guy who is a registered sex offender. I won't go into details of his offense because frankly that's not my place. But I will say that it was over 20 years ago, and he has done everything in his power to become a better person since then. He has told me a fair amount about his offense and what he's done since then, and has never once refused to answer a question about his past. He is not proud of it, but he does not run from it. He owns his mistakes and works to be better. I genuinely consider him to be a decent person now, despite what he did. He served 5 years in prison, and after getting out he was on probation for another 5 years. He will be on the registry for life.

Once he got out of prison, he entered a therapy program specifically designed for offenders whose crimes involved children. It combines both individual therapy and group sessions. He completed and graduated from that program after another 5 years, and has willingly chosen to continue attending the group aspect in order to help others who did what he did and are going through the same consequences that he went through to keep them from re-offending. He has been there for over 15 years now, and has earned the title of "peer facilitator."

The same program has another branch that deals with victims of sexual offenses. Beyond simply voluntarily continuing with the program to help other offenders, he has also had the opportunity on more than one occasion to go into a therapy session with a victim of sexual abuse. These women never had an opportunity to confront their offender, for various reasons. One of them was abused by her father, and when she told her mother what happened, the father committed suicide instead of facing his family, the police, and a judge. My coworker was able to be a stand-in for her father, giving her an opportunity to vent her anger, frustration, and pain as well as get some answers about how someone could do such a thing to a child they were supposed to protect. I personally cannot even imagine how difficult that would have been to do, but he just says that it didn't matter how hard it was. He wasn't there for himself. He gave up the right to be selfish 20 years ago. And he lives by that motto every day of his life.

To those who claim it's impossible for child sex offenders to change, you have not met my coworker. I believe you would feel differently if you had. I will never condone what he did. I will never defend what he did. It was despicable, horrible, and traumatizing. His victims will have to live with the pain he caused for the rest of their lives. But he, by choice, lives with it as well. And he uses it to motivate himself to be better. I support him, and I am proud to call him a friend.

....go ahead, commence the flaming. >_>
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Victims? Like more than one?

Fucking hell.
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One exception to the vast, vast majority. I don't believe 99.9% of them can change, particularly child offenders. That is their sexual preference. They are fucked in the head. It would be like a straight or gay person refusing to act on their desires for their entire life.
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Aristoph posted...

he entered a therapy program specifically designed for offenders whose crimes involved children

https://imgur.com/nYwjyli
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MacDaMurderer posted...

Victims? Like more than one?

Fucking hell.

I believe it was 2 brothers. It's one of the subjects I've never asked too many questions about. I think understandably so.

Suchomimus posted...

One exception to the vast, vast majority. I don't believe 99.9% of them can change, particularly child offenders. That is their sexual preference. They are fucked in the head. It would be like a straight or gay person refusing to act on their desires for their entire life.

He's not the only exception, though. Apparently the therapy program he has been a part of has a nearly 100% record. According to my friend, in the entire time the main facilitator has been with the program (over 25 years and counting) only one person that has gone through the program has re-offended. It's not even remotely as unusual as you assume.

Freddie_Mercury posted...

https://imgur.com/nYwjyli

You think it's strange that there would be a program to rehabilitate child sex offenders to keep them from hurting anyone else again?
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I do too, same with most criminals.

However, I refuse to be the guinea pig to see if an individual works out. That's their problem.
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I'll go on a case by case basis. But my feeling is that some don't feel regret or remorse so they just do their time and then wait for their next opportunity to prey upon the innocent
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It doesn't matter if they can "change". If a person committed a crime severe enough to be registered as a sex offender, everyone around him needs a heads up.
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I doubt in general, but I'm happy this person was an exception.
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Aristoph posted...

whose crimes involved children.

wew lad
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I'm sure they can change. I really hope they do
it's just difficult to have effective policies put into place that don't run the risk of allowing repeat offenders
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catboy0_0 posted...

Aristoph posted...

whose crimes involved children.

wew lad

Yeah...not sure what you're trying to say?

If you don't like my wording for some reason, it's because it's not just for child molesters with physical contact with victims. The program also deals with other offenses like downloading CP. If it's a sexual offense and it involved children, this program is designed to help them avoid creating more victims once they've served whatever jail/prison time they had and get released back into society.

It's frankly irresponsible that there aren't more programs like this around the country.
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Suchomimus posted...

One exception to the vast, vast majority. I don't believe 99.9% of them can change, particularly child offenders. That is their sexual preference. They are fucked in the head. It would be like a straight or gay person refusing to act on their desires for their entire life.

Controversial opinion part 2 -- child molesters / porn possession offenders who have undergone voluntary castration in exchange for a reduced sentence have had dramatic reformation results with no repeat offenses. This option should be available nationwide.
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Aristoph posted...

It's frankly irresponsible that there aren't more programs like this around the country.

This kind of stuff makes people voluntarily switch their brains off, to the detriment of everyone.
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So he molested and/or raped 2 children who were brothers.

Yeah, no, he's still a piece of shit and still will be when he's dead.
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I dont believe child molesters can change and should be given life in prison or thr death penalty.

Takes a certain kind of person to molest a kid, let alone more then one, people who harm children sexual need to be put down in my opinion.
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Why did he do it?

Or more specifically, why did he say he did it.
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LinksLiege posted...

Aristoph posted...

It's frankly irresponsible that there aren't more programs like this around the country.

This kind of stuff makes people voluntarily switch their brains off, to the detriment of everyone.

Very sad. And very true.

As exemplified by the next two posters after you. :-/
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I think rapists should get the same life in prison or death sentence treatment as well.


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DavidWong posted...

Why did he do it?

Or more specifically, why did he say he did it.

I don't really know. I imagine it would be a very complicated answer, and I've never wanted to pry too much into the details. I do know he was raised by an abusive grandfather for most of his childhood. I'm sure that had a lot to do with it.
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Aristoph posted...

DavidWong posted...

Why did he do it?

Or more specifically, why did he say he did it.

I don't really know. I imagine it would be a very complicated answer, and I've never wanted to pry too much into the details. I do know he was raised by an abusive grandfather for most of his childhood. I'm sure that had a lot to do with it.

Unless his grandfather forced him to sexually abuse 2 brothers then it's not a very complicated answer.
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Maybe they can, maybe they can't. All I know is I just like brutalizing criminals (assuming they're not rich white collar criminals)
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Slip-N-Slide posted...

Unless his grandfather forced him to sexually abuse 2 brothers then it's not a very complicated answer.

There are far more factors that go into making someone abuse a kid than you are willing to acknowledge. That's sad.
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i believe everyone has the capacity to change. but i also belief that sometimes, for the safety of others, some privileges may need to be lost, or at least put to evaluation. you wouldnt send a recovering alcoholic to the liquor store alone
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BloodyNate posted...

i believe everyone has the capacity to change. but i also belief that sometimes, for the safety of others, some privileges may need to be lost, or at least put to evaluation. you wouldnt send a recovering alcoholic to the liquor store alone

Of course. I believe (as does my coworker) that restrictions should be placed on sex offenders. But there's a big difference between saying "you can't live near a school" and saying "you must be publicly humiliated every day for the rest of your life regardless of your future actions."

Personally, I think public sex offender registries should be abolished. The crimes are part of the public record in court documents and such already. There is no reason sex offenders should be paraded publicly while other very serious crimes are easily lost or forgotten by the public eye.
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RiKuToTheMiGhtY posted...

I think rapists should get the same life in prison or death sentence treatment as well.

So then what's stopping them from killing their victims to get rid of witnesses? It might actually encourage them if they didn't intend to just because it becomes more practical if they're going to get the same punishment but have a higher chance of getting away with murder.
All crimes that don't involve killing should have a lesser sentence than murder.

Aristoph posted...

Of course. I believe (as does my coworker) that restrictions should be placed on sex offenders. But there's a big difference between saying "you can't live near a school" and saying "you must be publicly humiliated every day for the rest of your life regardless of your future actions.

absolutely agreed. everybody deserves dignity and respect, i find it frustrating when people do anything to strip that away from anyone

Personally, I think public sex offender registries should be abolished. The crimes are part of the public record in court documents and such already. There is no reason sex offenders should be paraded publicly while other very serious crimes are easily lost or forgotten by the public eye.

i dont have any strong feelings about registrys, but i wonder if it would be good for there to be some kind of benefit-recovery program? like if a sex offender can be removed from registries by showing ample progress in therapy (over a long course of time, not immediately). i think that theres validity to their use, because sex offenders are much more likely to be repeat offenders, so there should be some burden of improvement for them to be considered safe enough for people to not be aware of their presence
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There was that sex offender that got reformed and helped FBI track and find other dangerous child predators because he thought like they did.
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BloodyNate posted...

i wonder if it would be good for there to be some kind of benefit-recovery program? like if a sex offender can be removed from registries by showing ample progress in therapy (over a long course of time, not immediately).

There actually is something like that in some places. The program my coworker is a part of, for example, is a state-sponsored program. As a result, if you successfully complete and graduate from the program you can petition the court to have your registration tier lowered by 1. The highest tier requires you to check-in to the sherriff's office once every 6 months for life, the middle tier requires it every 6 months for 25 years, and the lowest is once a year for 15 years. He's in the highest tier, and he could have it reduced (and thus only have about 5 years left on the registry) because he has completed the program. He's chosen not to, though. I think he sees it as a reminder of where he came from and where he never wants to end up again.
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Sure, they can change

but it's still not likely that someone who's done something like that will likely "undo" the damage they've caused despite all the good they'll try to do (not that that kind of damage is particularly "undo"-able)

I guess it's like a perpetual effort on their part at that point, constant effort toward redemption.

Some people probably fail to stay on that path; someone like your coworker, tc, obviously knocked it out of the park as far as trying to make up for his past...

unfortunately it's hard to look past their initial crime anyway

idk what im trying to say really
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YOUHAVENOHOPE posted...

Sure, they can change

but it's still not likely that someone who's done something like that will likely "undo" the damage they've caused despite all the good they'll try to do (not that that kind of damage is particularly "undo"-able)

I guess it's like a perpetual effort on their part at that point, constant effort toward redemption.

Some people probably fail to stay on that path; someone like your coworker, tc, obviously knocked it out of the park as far as trying to make up for his past...

unfortunately it's hard to look past their initial crime anyway

idk what im trying to say really

its a complex issue, and youre sharing your complex thoughts about it, which is valid
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YOUHAVENOHOPE posted...

but it's still not likely that someone who's done something like that will likely "undo" the damage they've caused despite all the good they'll try to do (not that that kind of damage is particularly "undo"-able)

But that's the thing...we don't even ask other criminals to "undo" their damage most of the time. Someone steals something that can't be recovered? Spend a year or two in jail, get out, promise not to do it again, and everything is forgotten. Kill someone? Spend 20 years in jail, get out, promise not to do it again, and society just sorta moves on.

It just doesn't make sense that sex offenses are the only ones we treat this way. Why isn't there a convicted murderer registry? There should be. Logic would indicate that they're an even bigger threat to the community. But there's no "icky" factor for murder, so people just objectively don't care once the person's jail time is up. And that's pretty fucked up, tbh.
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Aristoph posted...

But that's the thing...we don't even ask other criminals to "undo" their damage most of the time. Someone steals something that can't be recovered? Spend a year or two in jail, get out, promise not to do it again, and everything is forgotten. Kill someone? Spend 20 years in jail, get out, promise not to do it again, and society just sorta moves on.

It just doesn't make sense that sex offenses are the only ones we treat this way. Why isn't there a convicted murderer registry? There should be. Logic would indicate that they're an even bigger threat to the community. But there's no "icky" factor for murder, so people just objectively don't care once the person's jail time is up. And that's pretty fucked up, tbh.

:thinking:

You have a good point that we seem to deem sex crimes as particularly heinous, even against the backdrop of more violent crimes.

IMO this all really points to the American justice system emphasizing incarceration over rehabilitation, and our roots as a Puritan society (our as in America... saying this always feels funny considering I'm a 2nd gen child of immigrants)

I would argue that society tends NOT to forget if someone murdered someone, but society sees us as having paid for our crimes via incarceration - the punishment should keep you from straying down a bad path. We know now this doesn't really work, and imprisonment is really just a source of cheap labor at this point.

Our roots as a Puritan nation, along with traditionally American views regarding sex, probably contribute to the attitude we have against sex offenders.
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Aristoph posted...

Slip-N-Slide posted...

Unless his grandfather forced him to sexually abuse 2 brothers then it's not a very complicated answer.

There are far more factors that go into making someone abuse a kid than you are willing to acknowledge. That's sad.

There are more factors that go into it, but quite frankly those factors no longer matter once you've committed one of a few types of acts against humanity and society. Those would include things such as legitimate murder, rape, and especially child rape.

Those things are included in the small number of things where at that point the only purpose you serve is to be a psychological dummy to try to profile, learn from, and try to prevent other people from doing the same or being victims of. When you commit an act like that, you're throwing away your key that grants you access to society by proving yourself both incapable and undeserving of being a part of it. You don't deserve to be given a second chance, nor can you be trusted with one. Because what happens if we put that person back into society and they repeat one of those abhorrent acts again? You can blame them for their actions, but a degree of that blame has to go back to yourself because they already showed everyone in society that they were fucked up and couldn't be trusted in in society, and in an attempt to set a moral standard for someone who's completely abandoned theirs by putting then back into society is partially on you. I mean what bigger warning sign could you have been given after they already committed the act once?

The focus of other criminals should completely revolve around rehabilitation and reintegration into society, and dehumanization is nothing but counterproductive. But there's a point where you show yourself to be undeserving of that, and the second you choose to harm a child like that is one of the handful of things that crosses that point. It's impossible to sympathize with someone who intentionally sexually abuses a child. Unless there was a gun to your head making you do it, it doesn't matter how shitty your life was, you become irredeemably subhuman at that point. If anything for someone sick in the head enough to do that, it should be concerned a mercy life imprisonment of a mercy killing to give them the death penalty because no sane person who belongs on society would want to live as someone capable of those things let alone an actual perpetrator of those things. If I ever reached a a point where I'd seriously consider sexually abusing a child, I'd sooner turn a gun on myself than actually do it. Someone who lacks that level of self awareness of the act they're about to commit/commiting is already too far gone.

And I wouldn't even lump pedophilia as a whole into the lost cause category, it's when you lack the self awareness and go through with it that you are. Which is why they're worth being profiled, psychologically understood better, and that information be funneled into a much improved mental health system and healthcare system to identify warning signs of things before they happen, but again, once you do it, you're no longer a human.

And sure people are allowed to have different opinions on the subject, but this is simply mine.
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If only people of lesser crimes were so open about their pasts and willing to change. Could learn from this guy.
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