Current Events > A dying woman calls emergency services. She is told 'everyone' dies.

(+) Yeah! (+)

https://www.cnn.com/2018/05/11/health/france-ambulance-call-mocked-trnd/index.htm

"In pain too agonizing for her to describe, a young woman calls emergency services.

"I'm going to die," she says.
"You will die, certainly, one day," the phone operator replies, "like everyone else."
A few hours later, the woman -- 22-year-old Naomi Musenga -- dies. And now, officials in France have launched an investigation into why her call wasn't taken more seriously.

The incident happened in the city of Strasbourg in northeastern France in December. However, there's new interest in the case after a recording of the call surfaced.
"We are waiting for justice to be done ... to make sure this doesn't happen again," the woman's father, Policarpe Musenga, told reporters Thursday. "Whether it was bad will or dysfunctions, it is a serious error."
In the three-minute call on December 29, Naomi Musenga calls the local ambulance service, complaining of severe stomach pain.
Operator: "Yes hello?"
Musenga: "Hello ... Help me, ma'am."
Operator: "Yes, what's going on?"
Musenga: "Help me."
Operator: "Well, if you do not tell me what's going on, I will hang up."
The woman can't fully articulate her condition and says she's in a lot of pain. In response, the operator tells her to call a doctor.
Musenga: "I'm gonna die."
Operator: "Yes ... you will die, certainly, one day, like everyone else. Call the SOS doctors." [The operator gives her the number to SOS Mdecins, France's medical emergency service that sends doctors directly to a house.]
Musenga: "Please, help me, ma'am."
Operator: "I can't help you, I don't [know what's wrong with you]."
Musenga: "I have a lot of pain, I have very bad pain."
Operator: "And where?"
Musenga: "My stomach hurts a lot ... and I feel terrible everywhere."
Operator: "Yes, well, you call SOS doctors." [The operator gives her the number again.]

Musenga hung up. Eventually a relative called a doctor who came to Musenga's house, the family lawyer said at the Thursday news conference. The doctor had her taken to a hospital. Shortly after arrival, she suffered two heart attacks, was taken to intensive care and eventually died, according to CNN affiliate BFM TV.
The exact cause of death hasn't been determined, the Strasbourg prosecutor's office said. But her initial autopsy showed symptoms of multiple organ failure and hemorrhaging, BFMTV said.
"There were no questions like: 'Are you alone? Are you able to dial the phone number?' 'How long have you been hurt?' Or 'Are you in pain?," Mohamed Aachour, the Musenga family lawyer, told reporters. "All that she has had as treatment is indifference or cynicism. "

Jean-Claude Matry, president of the workers' union for the emergency services, said the operator has been temporarily suspended. He also denounced the staff shortage in the call centers.
"The operators answer calls 12 consecutive hours a day," he told CNN. "They undergo a lot of stress and it becomes hard to distinguish serious causes from boo-boos."
French Health Minister Agns Buzyn told CNN affiliate BFM TV she wants to find out if the call center staff was "under pressure" or if they'd received a high number of calls.
"It will enable me to know if there was a dysfunction in the structure or if it was the case, unfortunately, of one individual who did not respect the procedure," she said.
For now, Strasbourg Prosecutor Yolande Renzi said officials have opened a preliminary investigation "under charges of not helping a person in peril."
Using the hashtag #JusticePourNaomi , social media users have banded together to plan a rally. It's scheduled for Wednesday."

Its stuff like this that makes me sick to my stomach.
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This is as bad as the Kyle Plush incident.
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Losing your empathy for strangers in need is a very real thing.
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This seems like it's being overblown. She couldn't tell what was went with her and the operator did send her to the doctor.
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chetmanly posted...

This seems like it's being overblown. She couldn't tell what was went with her and the operator did send her to the doctor.

I think she has more of a duty than that.

chetmanly posted...

This seems like it's being overblown. She couldn't tell what was went with her and the operator did send her to the doctor.

That operator could have taken initiative and sent doctors since this lady was in clear distress and in a bad way. That's what they should have done. It's not overblown at all. I hope this operator is prosecuted if they can be.
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What a piece of shit
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what a piece of human garbage.
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Operator deserves to be prosecuted, indeed.
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someone says they are in pain, you tell them to see a doctor. it makes sense. what can 911 do? they could send an (expensive) ambulance, but a doctor could do so as well if they saw the problem is legit

Fam_Fam posted...

someone says they are in pain, you tell them to see a doctor. it makes sense. what can 911 do? they could send an (expensive) ambulance, but a doctor could do so as well if they saw the problem is legit

fuck off, Hoth
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chetmanly posted...

This seems like it's being overblown. She couldn't tell what was went with her and the operator did send her to the doctor.

Severe stomach pain is an emergency. Like, significant, particularly since you cant rule out anything over the phone. Just being a young woman automatically puts her at risk for pregnancy related issues, which will kill you. But there are so many fatal conditions that stem from severe stomach pain, and the hemorrhaging could be anything from an ectopic pregnancy to a ruptured organ. Poor training and probably poor working conditions are likely accessory to this tragedy.
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chetmanly posted...

This seems like it's being overblown. She couldn't tell what was went with her and the operator did send her to the doctor.

While I agree the lady was vague as hell the operator is trash. In the first line she already threatened to hang up just for being asked to help. They should be trained how to ask specific questions to figure out what needs to be done. Once the caller finally said severe stomach pain and she's thinks she's going to die an ambulance should have been called (at least in the US not sure how France has this setup.) At the very least the operator should've gotten the doctors she recommended on the line or called them herself. You can't expect everyone to be trained know exactly what's wrong with them. One of the signs of a heart attack is one of your arms gets pain or goes numb. Not everyone will know that and associate that with a heart attack for example. In some cases being ignorant means it's on you, but not here for an emergency services.
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What if Drago was a 911 operator

Drago: 911, what is emergency?
Lady: My husband fell in the bathtub and he's not responding. I think he may be dying.
Drago: If he dies, he dies.
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Well i guess if i cant tell 911 EXACTLY whats wrong theyll just ignore me......

"Help, im going to die.."

Vague af, no need to send help.
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That operator needs to be fired.
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It's not like she died because the operator
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chetmanly posted...

It's not like she died because the operator

and the operators response was still terrible. stop trying to defend people like this.
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chetmanly posted...

It's not like she died because the operator

It was negligent to be dismissive about severe pain.
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yoshirulezz1 posted...

Its stuff like this that makes me sick to my stomach.

If your stomach hurts, call the SOS doctors
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But she was "telling it like it is"

*snickers*
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9DJsZVbrpUE" data-time="
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People gonna jump down my throat for this. Oh well.

Take a moment to imagine being the Operator in this conversation. You have no idea what the call is about. The caller does not tell you why they are calling. Read the exchange line by line.

Operator: "Yes hello?"
Musenga: "Hello ... Help me, ma'am."
Operator: "Yes, what's going on?"
Musenga: "Help me."
Operator: "Well, if you do not tell me what's going on, I will hang up."
The woman can't fully articulate her condition and says she's in a lot of pain. In response, the operator tells her to call a doctor.
Musenga: "I'm gonna die."
Operator: "Yes ... you will die, certainly, one day, like everyone else. Call the SOS doctors." [The operator gives her the number to SOS Mdecins, France's medical emergency service that sends doctors directly to a house.]

Plus you're overworked and have to deal with people routinely calling in over non-emergencies.

It doesn't excuse the flippant "Yes... you will die, certainly one day, like everyone else." and dismissive attitude. It does appear the operator might have dropped the ball in some ways. It deserves to be investigated to determine how they failed to to follow protocols. Maybe they ought to be let go, but you also have to consider they're short on staff. And it also doesn't mean this operator is responsible for their death as CNN leads you to believe with their opening lines. That's called poisoning the well.

In pain too agonizing for her to describe, a young woman calls emergency services.

"I'm going to die," she says.
"You will die, certainly, one day," the phone operator replies, "like everyone else."
A few hours later, the woman -- 22-year-old Naomi Musenga -- dies.

Jean-Claude Matry, president of the workers' union for the emergency services, said the operator has been temporarily suspended. He also denounced the staff shortage in the call centers.
"The operators answer calls 12 consecutive hours a day," he told CNN. "They undergo a lot of stress and it becomes hard to distinguish serious causes from boo-boos."

Consider this too:

The next area of responsibility involves the triage of incoming calls, providing expert systematized caller interrogation, using the script provided by the Emergency Medical Dispatch system, in order to determine the likely severity of the patient's illness or injury, so that the most appropriate type of response resource may be expedited. All calls are prioritized by medical symptom/condition acuity. This process may be further complicated by panic-stricken callers who scream, cry, or make unreasonable demands. The trained EMD uses interpersonal and crisis management skills to sort through these distractions, taking control of the conversation, calming the caller, and extracting the necessary information. This inquiry begins with the obvious questions regarding whether the patient is conscious or breathing. The questioning will continue until the EMD is able to qualify a potentially life-threatening condition, at which time the closest appropriate response resource (such as a paramedic-staffed ambulance service) is notified to initiate pinpointing the call location.
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chetmanly posted...

It's not like she died because the operator

We'll never know. The delay caused by the operator's incompetence could've been significant.
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yea, she died cause of the operator. didn't get help in time. operator should be in prison for manslaughter or indifference to human life.

France sucks
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chetmanly posted...

This seems like it's being overblown. She couldn't tell what was went with her and the operator did send her to the doctor.

No, the operator told her to call a different number.
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And of course Funbazooka sees nothing wrong with this at all. Typical.
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Operator probably can't direct emergency services to respond to a situation the operator hasn't determined to be an actual emergency. Then again, maybe she didn't do her duty in asking the right questions.
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sktgamer_13dude posted...

And of course Funbazooka sees nothing wrong with this at all. Typical.

Except if you actually read my post, you'll see that I do.
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Reminds me of

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Z7CAAYkpKs" data-time="
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Funbazooka posted...

sktgamer_13dude posted...

And of course Funbazooka sees nothing wrong with this at all. Typical.

Except if you actually read my post, you'll see that I do.

A little bit after you said well youre tired and the person(, who was in very bad distress and likely died due to organ failure,) was in too much pain to describe just how much pain they felt.

The operator 100% dropped the ball from whats in this topic.
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Funbazooka posted...

People gonna jump down my throat for this. Oh well.

Take a moment to imagine being the Operator in this conversation. You have no idea what the call is about. The caller does not tell you why they are calling. Read the exchange line by line.

Operator: "Yes hello?"
Musenga: "Hello ... Help me, ma'am."
Operator: "Yes, what's going on?"
Musenga: "Help me."
Operator: "Well, if you do not tell me what's going on, I will hang up."
The woman can't fully articulate her condition and says she's in a lot of pain. In response, the operator tells her to call a doctor.
Musenga: "I'm gonna die."
Operator: "Yes ... you will die, certainly, one day, like everyone else. Call the SOS doctors." [The operator gives her the number to SOS Mdecins, France's medical emergency service that sends doctors directly to a house.]

Plus you're overworked and have to deal with people routinely calling in over non-emergencies.

It doesn't excuse the flippant "Yes... you will die, certainly one day, like everyone else." and dismissive attitude. It does appear the operator might have dropped the ball in some ways. It deserves to be investigated to determine how they failed to to follow protocols. Maybe they ought to be let go, but you also have to consider they're short on staff. And it also doesn't mean this operator is responsible for their death as CNN leads you to believe with their opening lines. That's called poisoning the well.

In pain too agonizing for her to describe, a young woman calls emergency services.

"I'm going to die," she says.
"You will die, certainly, one day," the phone operator replies, "like everyone else."
A few hours later, the woman -- 22-year-old Naomi Musenga -- dies.

Jean-Claude Matry, president of the workers' union for the emergency services, said the operator has been temporarily suspended. He also denounced the staff shortage in the call centers.
"The operators answer calls 12 consecutive hours a day," he told CNN. "They undergo a lot of stress and it becomes hard to distinguish serious causes from boo-boos."

Consider this too:

The next area of responsibility involves the triage of incoming calls, providing expert systematized caller interrogation, using the script provided by the Emergency Medical Dispatch system, in order to determine the likely severity of the patient's illness or injury, so that the most appropriate type of response resource may be expedited. All calls are prioritized by medical symptom/condition acuity. This process may be further complicated by panic-stricken callers who scream, cry, or make unreasonable demands. The trained EMD uses interpersonal and crisis management skills to sort through these distractions, taking control of the conversation, calming the caller, and extracting the necessary information. This inquiry begins with the obvious questions regarding whether the patient is conscious or breathing. The questioning will continue until the EMD is able to qualify a potentially life-threatening condition, at which time the closest appropriate response resource (such as a paramedic-staffed ambulance service) is notified to initiate pinpointing the call location.

Having worked as a paramedic, the operator was negligent as hell
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While you make some good points Funbazooka, they really should err on the side of caution, otherwise what's the point of having an emergency service if dying people are just going to get the third, only to be told to get the doctors themselves?
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Funbazooka ....what the fuck happened to make you the way you are?
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temporarily suspended

Hmm.

Even if the person didnt die, how do you not fire that person after reviewing the recording?
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EnragedSlith posted...

Having worked as a paramedic, the operator was negligent as hell

Not surprised to hear it. Thanks for sharing, seriously.
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I don't know what sytem they use in france, but I don't see why the dispatcher couldn't transfer the call themselves.
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>Calls emergency services
>States they have an emergency
> Gets told to call emergency services

The hell is the point of the dispatcher if they dont dispatch?
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Anyone defending this has literally no empathy or sense.
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Fam_Fam posted...

what can 911 do? t

Dispatch first responders with emergency equipment

Dabrikishaw15 posted...

Anyone defending this has literally no empathy or sense.

100% true statement.
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I don't see why everyone is getting so upset over this. The operator answered the call and provided a legitimate suggestion. The caller was eventually admitted to a hospital. It is unfortunate that she passed, but this didn't seem to be due to neglect by the operator.
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Unsugarized_Foo posted...

>Calls emergency services
>States they have an emergency
> Gets told to call emergency services

The hell is the point of the dispatcher if they dont dispatch?

I'm surprised more people haven't pointed this out. Bedside manner notwithstanding, what exactly are the duties of an emergency operator if they have separate lines for separate emergencies and don't even forward you?

yoshirulezz1 posted...

Its stuff like this that makes me sick to my stomach.

call SOS doctors , dude

Ugh... repulsive read that. This piece of trash would already be counting hours on death row, if it was up to me. AND I would have definitely reminded her of that line of hers, when she's being walked/dragged to... take her medicine, so to speak.

Now, that'd be justice at it's finest... *sigh*.

kingdrake2 posted...

Dabrikishaw15 posted...

Anyone defending this has literally no empathy or sense.

100% true statement.

Qft

Caution999 posted...

Operator deserves to be prosecuted, indeed.