Current Events > Do you agree with Jordan Peterson's views on transgender pronouns?

(+) Yeah! (+)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mufh9oKYf5Y" data-time="

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LiHb4KJLFyE" data-time="
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tl;dw version?
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where should we start watching?
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Not only is it stupid, but it mischaracterizes what the law actually is about which is explicit threats to transgender lives. Which isn't even legal in America's expansive definition of freedom of speech.

Second video at 2:40 is pretty much where he lays it all out.
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Pordan jeterson
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Did you pull this question from the dictionary examples of "loaded questions"?
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"made up words" lmao

as Thor says "all words are made up"
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lilORANG posted...

"made up words" lmao

as Thor says "all words are made up"

lol, one of my favorite parts of the movie
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dude is a fucking joke. can we just put him in the same corner Milo disappeared into already?
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He's fine. He doesn't have a problem with transgender identities. It is the location outside he/she such as "they" and non "he/she" pronouns.
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Medussa posted...

dude is a fucking joke. can we just put him in the same corner Milo disappeared into already?

Milo "child rape is okay if it's gay" Yiannopoulos?

We'll see if JBP is that fucking stupid.
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Minute posted...

We'll see if JBP is that fucking stupid.

maybe I'm misremembering, but he seemed like he was already on his way out when he made that comment. it only sealed his situation.
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Those pronouns apply more to the genderneutral/nonconforming types. Trans folk just want to be called the right he or she.
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For the ignorant, hes talking about crap like zer, zim etc.

He has no issue, and HAS referred to transgender people as the corresponding he/her.

But trying to mandate peoples speech for less than 1% of the population is rightfully ludicrous.

One guy suggested placing the corresponding pronouns next to the contacts name in your smartphone as a solution to remembering.

Keep in mind, there are 30+ of these pronouns.

And like Dr. Peterson says, language should develop naturally. Not through force. If society rejects it, oh well.
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it all boils down to respect. if you respect someone, pronouns are fucking simple. Those who can't figure them out pretty obviously don't care enough to try. and that's honestly pretty sad.
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Medussa posted...

it all boils down to respect. if you respect someone, pronouns are fucking simple. Those who can't figure them out pretty obviously don't care enough to try. and that's honestly pretty sad.

This is simplifying the issue. Youre delusional if you think people are going to refer to you as xer in normal conversation. A made up word. Keep in mind this fucks with languages like Spanish, French etc with gender words.

Its not about respect. Its about not thinking you can dictate how others speak because you feel like youre special. He. Her. Pick one.
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what if you don't feel/identify as a "he" or a "her"?
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"WAAAAAAAAA if you won't let me control your speech and thoughts YOU'RE NOT RESPECT ME WAAAAAAA!!111!!" - Medussa in 2018
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boxington posted...

what if you don't feel/identify as a "he" or a "her"?

what the fuck do you identify as then?
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Is this one of those things were people are upset by someone asking you refer to them in a certain away? There's really no harm to going along with it.
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The thing is, this is a non issue for most people because they don't struggle and haven't struggled with their gender for sometimes DECADES.

If I was called a "her" by anyone, I'd laugh it off. I don't care, because I haven't had that issue to deal with. Similarly, if someone called me the "N" word, I wouldn't care. It's not something I've had to deal with for years and years.

Going out of your way to call someone something other than the preferred pronoun, especially once you've been made aware of how important it is to them, is just you being a jerk. 100%.

It would be like you preferring to be called your middle name, and someone going out of their way to call you by your first name all the time, despite you letting them know. It's a jerkish thing to do, and it doesn't do anything but insult the affected person.
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FLUFFYGERM posted...

boxington posted...

what if you don't feel/identify as a "he" or a "her"?

what the fuck do you identify as then?

idk, but people have talked about identifying as both male and female, neither, or something else
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Medussa posted...

it all boils down to respect. if you respect someone, pronouns are fucking simple. Those who can't figure them out pretty obviously don't care enough to try. and that's honestly pretty sad.

Shut the fuck up
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Tmaster148 posted...

Is this one of those things were people are upset by someone asking you refer to them in a certain away? There's really no harm to going along with it.

No. Its when the law mandates you HAVE to, or be fined.
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FLUFFYGERM posted...

boxington posted...

what if you don't feel/identify as a "he" or a "her"?

what the fuck do you identify as then?

I have a lot of first nations students who identify as "they", since they are dual spirited.

And before you say that is stupid/idiotic, it is also very ingrained in their society for generations.
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boxington posted...

FLUFFYGERM posted...

boxington posted...

what if you don't feel/identify as a "he" or a "her"?

what the fuck do you identify as then?

idk, but people have talked about identifying as both male and female, neither, or something else

and once upon a time goat herders in the stone age thought they heard the voice of god telling them what to do and what to write down
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Jeff AKA Snoopy posted...

The thing is, this is a non issue for most people because they don't struggle and haven't struggled with their gender for sometimes DECADES.

If I was called a "her" by anyone, I'd laugh it off. I don't care, because I haven't had that issue to deal with. Similarly, if someone called me the "N" word, I wouldn't care. It's not something I've had to deal with for years and years.

Going out of your way to call someone something other than the preferred pronoun, especially once you've been made aware of how important it is to them, is just you being a jerk. 100%.

It would be like you preferring to be called your middle name, and someone going out of their way to call you by your first name all the time, despite you letting them know. It's a jerkish thing to do, and it doesn't do anything but insult the affected person.

This isnt the point. It shouldnt be mandated. Thats his only issue.
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Jeff AKA Snoopy posted...

FLUFFYGERM posted...

boxington posted...

what if you don't feel/identify as a "he" or a "her"?

what the fuck do you identify as then?

I have a lot of first nations students who identify as "they", since they are dual spirited.

And before you say that is stupid/idiotic, it is also very ingrained in their society for generations.

what evidence is there that that belief is valid? afaik it's part of a religious worldview as a whole, and you should know that there's no evidence for any religion
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cuttin_in_farm posted...

But trying to mandate peoples speech for less than 1% of the population is rightfully ludicrous.

But this isn't a real thing. It hasn't and will not happen.
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COVxy posted...

cuttin_in_farm posted...

But trying to mandate peoples speech for less than 1% of the population is rightfully ludicrous.

But this isn't a real thing. It hasn't and will not happen.

isn't it effectively happening in canada? that's how Jordan Peterson became famous
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FLUFFYGERM posted...

isn't it effectively happening in canada? that's how Jordan Peterson became famous

He got famous spreading misinformation, yes.
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FLUFFYGERM posted...

COVxy posted...

cuttin_in_farm posted...

But trying to mandate peoples speech for less than 1% of the population is rightfully ludicrous.

But this isn't a real thing. It hasn't and will not happen.

isn't it effectively happening in canada? that's how Jordan Peterson became famous

The bill updates the Canadian Human Rights Act and the Criminal Code to include the terms "gender identity" and "gender expression." The legislation also makes it illegal to discriminate on the basis of gender identity or expression. It would also extend hate speech laws to include the two terms, and make it a hate crime to target someone for being transgender.

So basically, it is under the Human Rights Act now. So, it's not like any time someone refers to someone else as the "N" word they are immediately fined and thrown in jail in Canada. It's just something that comes into play for discrimination law. So, a business refusing to service transgender people are now protected under the same law that makes that illegal to be done against black people, or religious people.
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FLUFFYGERM posted...

isn't it effectively happening in canada? that's how Jordan Peterson became famous

just because someone says something doesn't mean it's happening. Alex jones got famous saying crazy shit. DO you think the government is turning the frogs gay and sandy hook was a false flag?
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Jeff AKA Snoopy posted...

FLUFFYGERM posted...

COVxy posted...

cuttin_in_farm posted...

But trying to mandate peoples speech for less than 1% of the population is rightfully ludicrous.

But this isn't a real thing. It hasn't and will not happen.

isn't it effectively happening in canada? that's how Jordan Peterson became famous

The bill updates the Canadian Human Rights Act and the Criminal Code to include the terms "gender identity" and "gender expression." The legislation also makes it illegal to discriminate on the basis of gender identity or expression. It would also extend hate speech laws to include the two terms, and make it a hate crime to target someone for being transgender.

So basically, it is under the Human Rights Act now. So, it's not like any time someone refers to someone else as the "N" word they are immediately fined and thrown in jail in Canada. It's just something that comes into play for discrimination law. So, a business refusing to service transgender people are now protected under the same law that makes that illegal to be done against black people, or religious people.

Is it true that if your kid tells you they're X or Y or Z gender and you reject those beliefs or don't support them in their decision, the state can take them away? That you can get fired for not supporting these things?
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Jordan Peterson is the most correct person publicly sharing their opinion on this stupid thing that has somehow become an issue.
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FLUFFYGERM posted...

Jeff AKA Snoopy posted...

FLUFFYGERM posted...

COVxy posted...

cuttin_in_farm posted...

But trying to mandate peoples speech for less than 1% of the population is rightfully ludicrous.

But this isn't a real thing. It hasn't and will not happen.

isn't it effectively happening in canada? that's how Jordan Peterson became famous

The bill updates the Canadian Human Rights Act and the Criminal Code to include the terms "gender identity" and "gender expression." The legislation also makes it illegal to discriminate on the basis of gender identity or expression. It would also extend hate speech laws to include the two terms, and make it a hate crime to target someone for being transgender.

So basically, it is under the Human Rights Act now. So, it's not like any time someone refers to someone else as the "N" word they are immediately fined and thrown in jail in Canada. It's just something that comes into play for discrimination law. So, a business refusing to service transgender people are now protected under the same law that makes that illegal to be done against black people, or religious people.

Is it true that if your kid tells you they're X or Y or Z gender and you reject those beliefs or don't support them in their decision, the state can take them away? That you can get fired for not supporting these things?

Not at all. Could they potentially go to court and cite it is a Human Rights violation? Yes. They'd also have to prove it was done in a way that was a hate crime.

Now, someone who is transgender who is fired for being transgendered has protection under the Human Rights Act. They didn't before because the wording of our Human Rights Act didn't include that.
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lilORANG posted...

FLUFFYGERM posted...

isn't it effectively happening in canada? that's how Jordan Peterson became famous

just because someone says something doesn't mean it's happening. Alex jones got famous saying crazy shit. DO you think the government is turning the frogs gay and sandy hook was a false flag?

Imagine comparing expressing contempt for made up pronouns with theories on governments and homosexual frogs.

You appear to have become hysterical. You should probably take a timeout.
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COVxy posted...

cuttin_in_farm posted...

But trying to mandate peoples speech for less than 1% of the population is rightfully ludicrous.

But this isn't a real thing. It hasn't and will not happen.

What makes you so sure?
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thelovefist posted...

lilORANG posted...

FLUFFYGERM posted...

isn't it effectively happening in canada? that's how Jordan Peterson became famous

just because someone says something doesn't mean it's happening. Alex jones got famous saying crazy shit. DO you think the government is turning the frogs gay and sandy hook was a false flag?

Imagine comparing expressing contempt for made up pronouns with theories on governments and homosexual frogs.

You appear to have become hysterical. You should probably take a timeout.

imagine strawmanning for no reason at all. I'm not even arguing a point lol, just pointing out how illogical his statement is.
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Jeff AKA Snoopy posted...

FLUFFYGERM posted...

Jeff AKA Snoopy posted...

FLUFFYGERM posted...

COVxy posted...

cuttin_in_farm posted...

But trying to mandate peoples speech for less than 1% of the population is rightfully ludicrous.

But this isn't a real thing. It hasn't and will not happen.

isn't it effectively happening in canada? that's how Jordan Peterson became famous

The bill updates the Canadian Human Rights Act and the Criminal Code to include the terms "gender identity" and "gender expression." The legislation also makes it illegal to discriminate on the basis of gender identity or expression. It would also extend hate speech laws to include the two terms, and make it a hate crime to target someone for being transgender.

So basically, it is under the Human Rights Act now. So, it's not like any time someone refers to someone else as the "N" word they are immediately fined and thrown in jail in Canada. It's just something that comes into play for discrimination law. So, a business refusing to service transgender people are now protected under the same law that makes that illegal to be done against black people, or religious people.

Is it true that if your kid tells you they're X or Y or Z gender and you reject those beliefs or don't support them in their decision, the state can take them away? That you can get fired for not supporting these things?

Not at all. Could they potentially go to court and cite it is a Human Rights violation? Yes. They'd also have to prove it was done in a way that was a hate crime.

Now, someone who is transgender who is fired for being transgendered has protection under the Human Rights Act. They didn't before because the wording of our Human Rights Act didn't include that.

How often do parents go to a human rights tribunal in Canada for situations like that? What does it take to make it considered a hate crime if a parent tells their kid to shut the fuck up wrt the kid saying they're X or Y or Z gender?

Are teachers expected to use these pronouns or else get fired?
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lilORANG posted...

thelovefist posted...

lilORANG posted...

FLUFFYGERM posted...

isn't it effectively happening in canada? that's how Jordan Peterson became famous

just because someone says something doesn't mean it's happening. Alex jones got famous saying crazy shit. DO you think the government is turning the frogs gay and sandy hook was a false flag?

Imagine comparing expressing contempt for made up pronouns with theories on governments and homosexual frogs.

You appear to have become hysterical. You should probably take a timeout.

imagine strawmanning for no reason at all. I'm not even arguing a point lol, just pointing out how illogical his statement is.

Uh right...
Sorry about that. I clearly didn't read what you responded to.
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Keep in mind, there are professors that consider you not using the correct pronouns as abuse.

This is a slippery slope that shouldnt be explored in my mind.
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FLUFFYGERM posted...

How often do parents go to a human rights tribunal in Canada for situations like that? What does it take to make it considered a hate crime if a parent tells their kid to shut the fuck up wrt the kid saying they're X or Y or Z gender?

Are teachers expected to use these pronouns or else get fired?

Proudclad just askin' questions lol.
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FLUFFYGERM posted...

Jeff AKA Snoopy posted...

FLUFFYGERM posted...

Jeff AKA Snoopy posted...

FLUFFYGERM posted...

COVxy posted...

cuttin_in_farm posted...

But trying to mandate peoples speech for less than 1% of the population is rightfully ludicrous.

But this isn't a real thing. It hasn't and will not happen.

isn't it effectively happening in canada? that's how Jordan Peterson became famous

The bill updates the Canadian Human Rights Act and the Criminal Code to include the terms "gender identity" and "gender expression." The legislation also makes it illegal to discriminate on the basis of gender identity or expression. It would also extend hate speech laws to include the two terms, and make it a hate crime to target someone for being transgender.

So basically, it is under the Human Rights Act now. So, it's not like any time someone refers to someone else as the "N" word they are immediately fined and thrown in jail in Canada. It's just something that comes into play for discrimination law. So, a business refusing to service transgender people are now protected under the same law that makes that illegal to be done against black people, or religious people.

Is it true that if your kid tells you they're X or Y or Z gender and you reject those beliefs or don't support them in their decision, the state can take them away? That you can get fired for not supporting these things?

Not at all. Could they potentially go to court and cite it is a Human Rights violation? Yes. They'd also have to prove it was done in a way that was a hate crime.

Now, someone who is transgender who is fired for being transgendered has protection under the Human Rights Act. They didn't before because the wording of our Human Rights Act didn't include that.

How often do parents go to a human rights tribunal in Canada for situations like that? What does it take to make it considered a hate crime if a parent tells their kid to shut the fuck up wrt the kid saying they're X or Y or Z gender?

Are teachers expected to use these pronouns or else get fired?

As a teacher, I can say that we are expected to respect a student and their desires to be addressed by a pronoun. I've taught a few transgender students, and it basically is a non-issue with even most transgender students. I've offended a student once (I'm a substitute teacher), and when I explained to them they were listed in the register under their birth name instead of their preferred name, he was very understanding and told me that they would ask if it was possible to change that.

I've only ever heard of parents going to a tribunal if they are trying to enforce their child to be a certain religion. Like, I've heard of a few parents losing their child because they were trying to enforce a certain religious upbringing and were HARMING the children when they didn't abide by that. It isn't a tool that a pissed off kid can use to just "get what they want".
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Why should your right to freedom of speech trump a trans persons right not to be offended?

It's very concerning that there are people who actually think this way.
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COVxy posted...

FLUFFYGERM posted...

isn't it effectively happening in canada? that's how Jordan Peterson became famous

He got famous spreading misinformation, yes.

It actually is effectively happening... and it's happening to him.

"The 54-year-old has been at the centre of a debate about gender and free speech ever since he posted videos to YouTube last fall in which he said he would not use the preferred, gender-neutral pronouns of some students and faculty."

"The videos drew fire from trans activists, faculty and student and labour unions. Critics accused Peterson of helping to foster a climate for hate to thrive. Protests, sometimes violent, broke out on campus"

"It was particularly stressful for the first two weeks, because the controversy was generating a lot of flak. I got two letters from the university, he said of the warnings, one reminding him that free speech had to be made in accordance with human rights legislation and the other noting that his refusal to use personal pronouns upon request could constitute discrimination."

https://www.thestar.com/news/insight/2017/01/15/he-says-freedom-they-say-hate-the-pronoun-fight-is-back.html

He's being bullied and harassed into speaking in an unnatural way.
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DifferentialEquation posted...

Why should your right to freedom of speech trump a trans persons right not to be offended?

It's very concerning that there are people who actually think this way.

That was a stupid line of questioning.

Freedom of Speech =/= freedom from responsibility of that speech. You can say whatever you want. I can tell my boss to go fuck himself. My boss has every right to fire me for that. I can't cry freedom of speech about it.
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Capn Circus posted...

Nobody takes you seriously for good reason.
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What a dodge.
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