Board 8 > Star Wars topic revival - The Last Jedi is now in our hands

(+) Yeah! (+)

LapisLazuli posted...

"It's not a Cap movie because that doesn't fit my narrative".

Whose narrative is that? And what is the narrative? Do explain your nonsense please. Thanks.
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Wow.
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I am starting to think no one trolls more than you do on the entire board. You never can explain anything. You just say stuff for reactions that never has any literal purpose. Like, this is what trolling is.

Who are you even responding to above? What narrative is being pushed? No one knows what you are even referring to while supposedly mocking someone with your quotes.
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Corrik, everyone knows what I mean besides you, and you don't deserve explaining to. You are the only one unaware. That's why I respond to you how I do.
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LapisLazuli posted...

Corrik, everyone knows what I mean besides you, and you don't deserve explaining to. You are the only one unaware. That's why I respond to you how I do.

I am starting to think no one trolls more than you do on the entire board. You never can explain anything. You just say stuff for reactions that never has any literal purpose. Like, this is what trolling is.

Who are you even responding to above? What narrative is being pushed? No one knows what you are even referring to while supposedly mocking someone with your quotes.

Glad we are in agreement that you are trolling. Anyways.
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Sure!
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LapisLazuli posted...

Wow.

My thoughts exactly
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man LtM and Corrik competing to see who can be more obnoxious

Anyway, TLJ was more good than bad in my mind. There were definitely some...questionable things in the movie (like the premise of the slow chase through space...and even though the space Leia thing made sense the way in which it was shot was not great).
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VintageGin posted...

man LtM and Corrik competing to see who can be more obnoxious

Anyway, TLJ was more good than bad in my mind. There were definitely some...questionable things in the movie (like the premise of the slow chase through space...and even though the space Leia thing made sense the way in which it was shot was not great).

I am just stating what my biggest gripe was on the movie. It is not like I am alone on it. People just choose to not want to acknowledge it because I can only think they are A. Casuals or B. Do not want to admit it it an issue.

We have a direct director quote saying he was not sure if it was outlawed and if so that he would have the star wars man in charge of that to rewrite it into Canon.

I mean, if you do not agree with how I am saying it...

Then at least just listen to another Star Wars nerd who is paid for writing to explain the issue.

https://www.theringer.com/2017/12/20/16800970/vice-admiral-holdo-maneuver-the-last-jedi

Theringer is a legit site. It is bill Simmons website, who has always posted on pop culture through him and his writers for years.

That said. Me and scarlet did not disagree on anything besides we disagree on if civil war is an avengers or captain American film. Which does not change the premise that LinkMarioSamus made that is absolutely wrong.

No movies at all besides the avengers main line (regardless if you count civil war as avengers or not) has done worse than the movie before it in the Marvel cinematic universe which is mind blowingly amazing.

That is why Lapis' comment made zero sense. Scarlet and I both together came to that same conclusion. (I even corrected him that Iron Man 2 was not an exception when he used domestic instead of worldwide accidentally).

Why my major gripe on the movie which is one that is more tailored to people heavily invested into the star wars universe is unacknowledgable or treated as irrelevant is beyond me. It isn't like no one of note has had this gripe. A lot of people have this issue, more so if you are invested greatly into the star wars universe.

It would be like if a new LOTR movie came out and they were fighting some Sauron wanna be with this huge massive army and Samwise Gamchee used his frying pan to incinerate the enemy army in a blink of the eye.

If he could always do this with his frying pan, why didn't he ever do this before? Except in this scenario, everyone has Sam's frying pans also and have died or been under heavy duress and never use Sam's frying pan. And what threat going forward can make a difference now that we know the frying pan strategy exists and everyone has a said frying pan.

I mean, that is what it boils down to.

Then to see Rian himself acknowledge he wasn't sure if it was allowable or not but he would leave it to be written back into Canon if not... Just shows a lack of care for that detail. Frustrates me.
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You've got a lot of free time, huh?
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LapisLazuli posted...

You've got a lot of free time, huh?

Dude, come on. Whether you like Corrik or not, he's trying to explain his point and he's not attacking anyone here by doing so. This is the exact sort of attitude that causes some conservatives on this board to demonize some of the liberals here and further entrench bad behavior on both sides. Don't be the low-hanging fruit that can be used to justify poor attitudes.
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Corrik posted...

stuff

I mean, it makes sense to me if you consider that kamikaze attacks have always had limited effectiveness in war because you're sacrificing a lot--ships don't come cheap.

The attack in the movie only worked because the First Order ships were explicitly not firing on Holdo's ship while she slowly turned around and they were conveniently in a straight line. If they were in a looser formation, it would have been 1 for 1 at best ( no guarantee the enemy ship actually gets destroyed from this, just as many ships in WW2 were repaired after kamikaze attacks).

Even if you loaded a big ship with a droid for a single purpose attack, that's a lot of equipment going into something that might not actually be that successful. Also I was under the impression that hyperspace drives for ships that big don't come cheap, but I could be wrong about that.
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VintageGin posted...

Also I was under the impression that hyperspace drives for ships that big don't come cheap, but I could be wrong about that.

The prequels painted them as not completely unattainable but pricey.
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Genuinely great stuff:

Rey
Kylo Ren
Luke
Leia
That lightspeed kamikaze thing

Garbage:
Everything else, but Poe in particular
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CoolCly posted...

Genuinely great stuff:

Rey
Kylo Ren
Luke
Leia
That lightspeed kamikaze thing

Garbage:
Everything else, but Poe in particular

I really liked the throne room fight. I didn't like how Snoke went out tho. That was one of the best fight scenes in all of star wars
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scarletspeed7 posted...

LapisLazuli posted...

You've got a lot of free time, huh?

Dude, come on. Whether you like Corrik or not, he's trying to explain his point and he's not attacking anyone here by doing so. This is the exact sort of attitude that causes some conservatives on this board to demonize some of the liberals here and further entrench bad behavior on both sides. Don't be the low-hanging fruit that can be used to justify poor attitudes.

There's literally nothing that can ever be done to make me consider Corrik worth taking seriously, so instead I'm just gonna stop responding to him at all.

You can claim he's "trying go explain himself", but considering every user here is fully aware that he never changes his mind about anything and doesn't actually care what anybody here has to say....it's just posturing. His long posts are an attempt to "win, not "discuss". There's no such thing as talking with Corrik. I don't really care if people hate me for acting like this around him, it's what he deserves.

So I don't really know why I haven't ignored him yet...hm....
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That post wasn't worth posting, ugh.
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VintageGin posted...

Corrik posted...

stuff

I mean, it makes sense to me if you consider that kamikaze attacks have always had limited effectiveness in war because you're sacrificing a lot--ships don't come cheap.

The attack in the movie only worked because the First Order ships were explicitly not firing on Holdo's ship while she slowly turned around and they were conveniently in a straight line. If they were in a looser formation, it would have been 1 for 1 at best ( no guarantee the enemy ship actually gets destroyed from this, just as many ships in WW2 were repaired after kamikaze attacks).

Even if you loaded a big ship with a droid for a single purpose attack, that's a lot of equipment going into something that might not actually be that successful. Also I was under the impression that hyperspace drives for ships that big don't come cheap, but I could be wrong about that.

Think how effective destroying the SSD and the SD fleet at Endor would have been, which was tightly bunched up, with that tactic would have been. That would have been a staggering trade in favor of the rebellion. Staggering. It would have honestly maybe even have tipped almost the entire scale of the war with a single ship to sacrifice.

This is the complement in just manpower on a single star destroyer.

Crew requirements Edit. Imperial I-class Star Destroyers had over 37,000 crew on board 9,253 officers and 27,850 enlisted personnel. The complement of 9,700 stormtroopers added to a total of 46,803 crew and passengers. And there was a BUNCH of SDs present. Not to mention Vader's flagship...

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Executor-class_Star_Dreadnought

Which they had no way of knowing if he was on board or not.

This was the biggest non-Death Star ship in literal existence of the Galaxy. It's crew dwarfs that of a star destroyer.

This doesn't account for tie complements, shuttles, Corvettes, troop transports, ground units in tow, etc.

(Side note: I always think it is funny how small the armies are in Star Wars in comparison to the size of the universe).

The Ringer does bring up the fact that maybe it is considered an insufferable war crime and that is why we never seen it done.

I do not think the empire however cares about war crimes though in it's tactics since it employs you know, literal planet killers.
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I kinda include Snoke with Kylo Ren and Rey. I'm completely fine with what happened with him. He's not really a fleshed out character in his own right, he's just a fixture in the plot that's just there for Kylo Ren to overcome. Which is totally fine. He was totally awesome and served his purpose, and he didn't need to be anything more than he was.

I know a lot of people wanted more backstory for him to justify who he is or whatever but that was totally unnecessary. We saw exactly who he was in that awesome throne room scene.
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CoolCly posted...

I kinda include Snoke with Kylo Ren and Rey. I'm completely fine with what happened with him. He's not really a fleshed out character in his own right, he's just a fixture in the plot that's just there for Kylo Ren to overcome. Which is totally fine. He was totally awesome and served his purpose, and he didn't need to be anything more than he was.

I know a lot of people wanted more backstory for him to justify who he is or whatever but that was totally unnecessary. We saw exactly who he was in that awesome throne room scene.

I didn't need more backstory (I mean I wanted it). I just do not like how he was defeated. It really seemed rough to me and a cop out.

I coulda made myself okay with some Kylo Rey team up against him. But being stabbed randomly after his supposed place in the Galaxy as far as power and foresight... That was a bit underwhelming.

I won't lie. I did want to see more use out of him though. It is what it is with him. Supposedly a Snoke standalone could be in the works.
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Corrik posted...

VintageGin posted...

Corrik posted...

stuff

I mean, it makes sense to me if you consider that kamikaze attacks have always had limited effectiveness in war because you're sacrificing a lot--ships don't come cheap.

The attack in the movie only worked because the First Order ships were explicitly not firing on Holdo's ship while she slowly turned around and they were conveniently in a straight line. If they were in a looser formation, it would have been 1 for 1 at best ( no guarantee the enemy ship actually gets destroyed from this, just as many ships in WW2 were repaired after kamikaze attacks).

Even if you loaded a big ship with a droid for a single purpose attack, that's a lot of equipment going into something that might not actually be that successful. Also I was under the impression that hyperspace drives for ships that big don't come cheap, but I could be wrong about that.

Think how effective destroying the SSD and the SD fleet at Endor would have been, which was tightly bunched up, with that tactic would have been. That would have been a staggering trade in favor of the rebellion. Staggering. It would have honestly maybe even have tipped almost the entire scale of the war with a single ship to sacrifice.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7pLdjf2NSiU" data-time="
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As for Snoke, I think it would've been nice to at least have something indicating how he came to power.

I mean it makes sense that someone was able to take advantage of the power vacuum left from the death of the emperor/vader. But it seems strange that it's just some dude no one ever heard of befroe then-- I guess he's from the outer rim?
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Here's what the Empire's propaganda has told you: Darth Vader and the Emperor killed all the Jedi in the galaxy. They are the only two force users left alive. Except, of course, for the two survivors we know were in hiding. Obi Wan Kenobi and Yoda. They are the only two force users who survived their purge.

Except.... why does that need to be true? The galaxy is a big place. Why can't there be other Jedi hiding out somewhere just like Obi Wan was for all those years? In fact, it seems almost guaranteed that there's more Jedi out there. The EU played with this a lot - there were tons of padawans and jedi knights coming out of the wood work in those novels.

Before Palpatine's power play in the prequels, the Jedi Council didn't know about there being any secret Sith lords hanging out. So where did Palpatine come from? Darth Maul and Count Dooku? Well, they were just some bad force users hanging out waiting for their moment to strike.

So just like it's likely there's Jedi who have been hiding from the Empire in secret unbeknownst to them, there's always been Sith hiding out that the council don't know about. And why would Palpatine's Sith be the only ones? That dumb "Rule of Two" thing that makes no sense?

The answer to where Snoke comes from is obvious - it doesn't matter. He's been in hiding for a very long time waiting for the right opportunity. So the empire's forces being leaderless was the perfect time for him to just swoop in and show everyone how good at making lightning he is. It makes just a much sense as Palpatine being a hidden Sith or for Yoda to be hiding in that swamp.

It's almost a certainty that we'll see other rogue Jedi and Sith who have "been there the whole time" show up in future movies if these things keep getting pumped out.
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Grey Jedi time?
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Yeah, that's fair. I mean, I don't have any problem with him always having existed-- it's more that I wish there was at least a few lines that alluded to to how he swooped in and became supreme leader.
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VintageGin posted...

Corrik posted...

VintageGin posted...

Corrik posted...

stuff

I mean, it makes sense to me if you consider that kamikaze attacks have always had limited effectiveness in war because you're sacrificing a lot--ships don't come cheap.

The attack in the movie only worked because the First Order ships were explicitly not firing on Holdo's ship while she slowly turned around and they were conveniently in a straight line. If they were in a looser formation, it would have been 1 for 1 at best ( no guarantee the enemy ship actually gets destroyed from this, just as many ships in WW2 were repaired after kamikaze attacks).

Even if you loaded a big ship with a droid for a single purpose attack, that's a lot of equipment going into something that might not actually be that successful. Also I was under the impression that hyperspace drives for ships that big don't come cheap, but I could be wrong about that.

Think how effective destroying the SSD and the SD fleet at Endor would have been, which was tightly bunched up, with that tactic would have been. That would have been a staggering trade in favor of the rebellion. Staggering. It would have honestly maybe even have tipped almost the entire scale of the war with a single ship to sacrifice.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7pLdjf2NSiU" data-time="

To be fair the DS2 was shielded and when the shield went down they promptly destroyed it. The DS1 is a better example, but they didn't show many larger ships on Yavin 4. (Though you have to think they were there even if just larger transports).

I am not going to get into a physics debate of the force of lightspeed with xwings and such into it. Personally, that is going too far. I am not here to debate physics in a world we have none for or is not meant to be taken so literally. Just like I am not going to go up in arms that Captain America was able to stop the helicopter from lifting off. (though I do laugh that quite a few who handwave physics in star wars ARE the same ones who argued vehemently against that Captain America scene. I choose not to on either.) I am sticking to what the movies have showed us. That a decently large ship could destroy a much, much larger ship and multiple larger ships not in a line or direct path behind it.

Thus, I am sticking to the 1 Mon Calamari Cruiser rammed into the Endor fleet scenario.
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VintageGin posted...

As for Snoke, I think it would've been nice to at least have something indicating how he came to power.

I mean it makes sense that someone was able to take advantage of the power vacuum left from the death of the emperor/vader. But it seems strange that it's just some dude no one ever heard of befroe then-- I guess he's from the outer rim?

The books do somewhat allude to this. The emperor sensed a huge bastion of dark power in the outer rims. He just was too busy to follow up on it. So Snoke was there. Even if never truly in the game at that point. We know a lot of the outer rim is unmapped and goes without notice a lot in star wars despite the technology.
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CoolCly posted...

Here's what the Empire's propaganda has told you: Darth Vader and the Emperor killed all the Jedi in the galaxy. They are the only two force users left alive. Except, of course, for the two survivors we know were in hiding. Obi Wan Kenobi and Yoda. They are the only two force users who survived their purge.

Except.... why does that need to be true? The galaxy is a big place. Why can't there be other Jedi hiding out somewhere just like Obi Wan was for all those years? In fact, it seems almost guaranteed that there's more Jedi out there. The EU played with this a lot - there were tons of padawans and jedi knights coming out of the wood work in those novels.

Before Palpatine's power play in the prequels, the Jedi Council didn't know about there being any secret Sith lords hanging out. So where did Palpatine come from? Darth Maul and Count Dooku? Well, they were just some bad force users hanging out waiting for their moment to strike.

So just like it's likely there's Jedi who have been hiding from the Empire in secret unbeknownst to them, there's always been Sith hiding out that the council don't know about. And why would Palpatine's Sith be the only ones? That dumb "Rule of Two" thing that makes no sense?

The answer to where Snoke comes from is obvious - it doesn't matter. He's been in hiding for a very long time waiting for the right opportunity. So the empire's forces being leaderless was the perfect time for him to just swoop in and show everyone how good at making lightning he is. It makes just a much sense as Palpatine being a hidden Sith or for Yoda to be hiding in that swamp.

It's almost a certainty that we'll see other rogue Jedi and Sith who have "been there the whole time" show up in future movies if these things keep getting pumped out.

It is very important to note that Snoke is not a Sith. Dark Jedi / Dark Force User / Sith are not synonomous. Snoke is not a Sith Lord (as of now). He is a dark force user though.
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"Snoke was a humanoid alien who was the leader of the Attendants, a retinue composed of mute alien navigators who originated from the Unknown Regions. At some unspecified point in his life, Snoke acquired a black obsidian stone from the catacombs and mines beneath the castle of the Sith Lord Darth Vader on the planet Mustafar. He affixed the stone to a golden ring he wore, which was engraved with glyphs used by the Four Sages of Dwartii,[8] controversial figures of philosophy from the early days of the Galactic Republic and were represented with bronzium statues in the office of Supreme Chancellor Sheev Palpatine.[9]
Eventually, Snoke witnessed the rise and eventual fall of the Galactic Empire.[1] Through a secret Contingency, however, many former Imperial officers, nobles and technologists fled to the Unknown Regions and took the shape of what eventually became the First Order. Most of the former Imperial officers would have likely perished while crossing this uncharted realm, if it had not been for the ancient hyperspace trails blazed by Snoke's retinue, along with some of Grand Admiral Thrawn's vast knowledge about the Regions, which helped them to stay there and organize themselves.[10][11]

Although he was a very powerful practitioner of the dark side of the Force, Snoke was not affiliated with the Sith, which became extinct as a result of the deaths of Darth Sidious and Darth Vader at the Death Star II thanks to the efforts of the Jedi Knight Luke Skywalker. As such, Snoke, a secretive master of the Force, was a seeker of arcane and ancient lore.[8][12][13] In a matter of time, Snoke became unexpectedly the leader of the First Order. "
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