Current Events > Wait what, why is Tesla on the verge of bankruptcy?

(+) Yeah! (+)

I thought Musk is suppose to propel humanity to the next age!
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Arent they selling their vehicles at a massive loss?
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St0rmFury posted...

I thought Musk is suppose to propel humanity to the next age!

Dude, dont ever question the fan boyism
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Chicken posted...

Arent they selling

no
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Has Tesla every turned a profit? I don't think it has.
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Sariana21 posted...

Has Tesla every turned a profit? I don't think it has.

No - not even with millions of dollars of government grants, AND millions from SpaceX and PayPal.

Tesla will be yet another failure in green energy the government wasted millions of dollars on. Thanks, libs!
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who knew that bad business as a form of charity was not a good idea for increasing shareholder value

tesla gives away their patents to help their competitors because they'd rather go out of business and see EVs become popularized than succeed without boosting EV marketshare

end result is they will go out of business. eventually.
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Let's not act like the cars are in anyway bad but yeah the business model is failing cause there are cheaper alternatives.
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Ray-Ray posted...

Let's not act like the cars are in anyway bad but yeah the business model is failing cause there are cheaper alternatives.

They are bad cars too, sorry to burst your reality
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its moving the industry forward. it's good for society.

Darkman124 posted...

who knew that bad business as a form of charity was not a good idea for increasing shareholder value

tesla gives away their patents to help their competitors because they'd rather go out of business and see EVs become popularized than succeed without boosting EV marketshare

end result is they will go out of business. eventually.

what do you think of spacex though? just wondering
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JBaLLEN66 posted...

Ray-Ray posted...

Let's not act like the cars are in anyway bad but yeah the business model is failing cause there are cheaper alternatives.

They are bad cars too, sorry to burst your reality

Every Tesla gets five stars regularly. What's so bad about them?
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foreveraIone posted...

what do you think of spacex though? just wondering

they do what NASA should do, but for a profit

strong future.
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Ray-Ray posted...

JBaLLEN66 posted...

Ray-Ray posted...

Let's not act like the cars are in anyway bad but yeah the business model is failing cause there are cheaper alternatives.

They are bad cars too, sorry to burst your reality

Every Tesla gets five stars regularly. What's so bad about them?

Proof
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They have a great product that comes in at a fair price point. Fair doesnt mean cheap. It offers acceleration that is line with hyper cars and luxury that is comparable to anything put out by Mercedes or Lexus.

The problems are;
1: they cant bring products to market quickly enough
2: they cant produce products in a sufficient quantity to reduce costs
3: their distribution network is bad. They want to get rid of dealers.
4: getting the car worked on is too major a chore for the car to be viable. I see trucks with Tesla on the side hauling a Tesla on the back. You shouldnt have to ship a mass produced vehicle to get it serviced. Of course, your average automotive tech isnt an electrical engineer.
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JBaLLEN66 posted...

Ray-Ray posted...

JBaLLEN66 posted...

Ray-Ray posted...

Let's not act like the cars are in anyway bad but yeah the business model is failing cause there are cheaper alternatives.

They are bad cars too, sorry to burst your reality

Every Tesla gets five stars regularly. What's so bad about them?

Proof

https://cars.usnews.com/cars-trucks/tesla/model-s
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Ray-Ray posted...

JBaLLEN66 posted...

Ray-Ray posted...

JBaLLEN66 posted...

Ray-Ray posted...

Let's not act like the cars are in anyway bad but yeah the business model is failing cause there are cheaper alternatives.

They are bad cars too, sorry to burst your reality

Every Tesla gets five stars regularly. What's so bad about them?

Proof

https://cars.usnews.com/cars-trucks/tesla/model-s

I love how safety and relability are marked N/A
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They should be, but I not know. Dont they have a few deep pocketed investors who drank the kool aid and remain all in?

They have to go under at some point because Elon doesnt seem at all interested is running a profitable company.
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C7Ds points aside

long range is not a critical feature for an EV

you can easily acquire a short-range EV such as the nissan leaf for <10k, and a secondary vehicle that is gas powered for longer range travel
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JBaLLEN66 posted...

Ray-Ray posted...

JBaLLEN66 posted...

Ray-Ray posted...

JBaLLEN66 posted...

Ray-Ray posted...

Let's not act like the cars are in anyway bad but yeah the business model is failing cause there are cheaper alternatives.

They are bad cars too, sorry to burst your reality

Every Tesla gets five stars regularly. What's so bad about them?

Proof

https://cars.usnews.com/cars-trucks/tesla/model-s

I love how safety and relability are marked N/A

Cars produced in low quantities are not required to undergo crash testing. I learned this after my insurance adjuster quoted a rate to me for my Porsche a few years ago.

@Darkman124, thats not even an issue in my area. There are supercharger stations within about 5-10 mins of my office. I think it takes around 15 minutes. They are in front of a Target, so you can do some simple shopping and have a fully charged vehicle within minutes.
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They are good cars with great technology. It is unfortunate that the company is so poor at managing itself from a business perspective.

I imagine they will either go out of business and other companies will use their technology more effectively and efficiently, or they will be built out and gradually lose their quality but make lots more money.
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C7D posted...

Cars produced in low quantities are not required to undergo crash testing. I learned this after my insurance adjuster quoted a rate to me for my Porsche a few years ago.

@Darkman124, thats not even an issue in my area. There are supercharger stations within about 5-10 mins of my office. I think it takes around 15 minutes. They are in front of a Target, so you can do some simple shopping and have a fully charged vehicle within minutes.

i'm thinking more in terms of traveling 300+ miles in one trip vs the 70-100 that a leaf has on it

on such a trip you might be hard pressed to find superchargers and would have to alter your path significantly in a leaf. and stop a lot of times.

my point was more that short-range EVs meet 99% of people's needs for a daily driver, and if you know you need a longer range car too, it's cheaper just to buy a gas car and have an extra vehicle.
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darkjedilink posted...

Sariana21 posted...

Has Tesla every turned a profit? I don't think it has.

No - not even with millions of dollars of government grants, AND millions from SpaceX and PayPal.

Tesla will be yet another failure in green energy the government wasted millions of dollars on. Thanks, libs!

What does this have to do with "libs" outside of your unhealthy obsession with them
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Bio1590 posted...

What does this have to do with "libs" outside of your unhealthy obsession with them

he is just trolling

put him on ignore and move on
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Had to write a research paper of Tesla, and SpaceX in a class. Tesla has a production capacity problem. My class theorized that they can overcome this if they partner with real auto manufacturing companies to help reach production numbers. They have such a long backlog and if those can be turned into actual sales, the company could actually generate cash and help sustain the business.

I think Musk is being too strong headed in getting it all done by their selves.
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Darkman124 posted...

on such a trip you might be hard pressed to find superchargers and would have to alter your path significantly in a leaf. and stop a lot of times.

my point was more that short-range EVs meet 99% of people's needs for a daily driver, and if you know you need a longer range car too, it's cheaper just to buy a gas car and have an extra vehicle.

There was some study that tracked average driver daily habits. Tesla is great for the average person that has 80% of their driving being their normal commute. Most normal drivers will not exceed the parameters of distance needed on a Tesla car. Essentially, you drive to work, drive back home, plug that beast in the wall in your garage, and you are good for the next day. Rinse and repeat.
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Darkman124 posted...

C7D posted...

Cars produced in low quantities are not required to undergo crash testing. I learned this after my insurance adjuster quoted a rate to me for my Porsche a few years ago.

@Darkman124, thats not even an issue in my area. There are supercharger stations within about 5-10 mins of my office. I think it takes around 15 minutes. They are in front of a Target, so you can do some simple shopping and have a fully charged vehicle within minutes.

i'm thinking more in terms of traveling 300+ miles in one trip vs the 70-100 that a leaf has on it

on such a trip you might be hard pressed to find superchargers and would have to alter your path significantly in a leaf. and stop a lot of times.

my point was more that short-range EVs meet 99% of people's needs for a daily driver, and if you know you need a longer range car too, it's cheaper just to buy a gas car and have an extra vehicle.

Thats true and brings up another very good point. Mass acceptance is needed so Tesla could invest in more supercharger stations. I think Honda came up with a really good idea for a hydrogen powered car that failed due to a limited number of filling stations. I think it was called the clarity.

Nissan leafs are really questionable in my book. I dont think they fit the needs of very many people. I always see them for sale for around $9000 with about 3000 miles on them.
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krazychao5 posted...

Tesla is great for the average person that has 80% of their driving being their normal commute. Most normal drivers will not exceed the parameters of distance needed on a Tesla car. Essentially, you drive to work, drive back home, plug that beast in the wall in your garage, and you are good for the next day. Rinse and repeat.

i dont think you are understanding me

i'm saying tesla is overkill for the average driver and an EV with less range that costs about a quarter as much would suffice, and any driver expecting to make a large number of long drives could easily just buy a cheap gas car--or if only a few long drives, could simply rent.

C7D posted...

Nissan leafs are really questionable in my book. I dont think they fit the needs of very many people. I always see them for sale for around $9000 with about 3000 miles on them.

they're a daily commute car, but there's many alternatives that span the space between a 300mi range tesla and the ~75mi range leaf.

my daily commute is 20 miles, so a leaf is more than sufficient. i've been pushing for my wife to sell her car and let us get a leaf for my daily commute whilst she takes my car for any long drives. she works from home, so we really do not need 2 gas cars, plus we have solar.
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C7D posted...

3: their distribution network is bad. They want to get rid of dealers.

Isn't there a fucked up law that doesn't allow them to sell at dealerships or something? From what I understand they don't want to get rid of dealers, but they can't sell through dealerships.
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Lol Tesla. Govco welfare queen of a company.

Elon musk is a welfare whore
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Darkman124 posted...

krazychao5 posted...

Tesla is great for the average person that has 80% of their driving being their normal commute. Most normal drivers will not exceed the parameters of distance needed on a Tesla car. Essentially, you drive to work, drive back home, plug that beast in the wall in your garage, and you are good for the next day. Rinse and repeat.

i dont think you are understanding me

i'm saying tesla is overkill for the average driver and an EV with less range that costs about a quarter as much would suffice, and any driver expecting to make a large number of long drives could easily just buy a cheap gas car--or if only a few long drives, could simply rent.

they're overkill only in the sense that it's a luxury vehicle. that's like saying flying first class instead of coach is overkill for the average person. truth is nobody needs a lazyboy recliner in an airplane but people want it because it makes the experience better.
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voldothegr8 posted...

C7D posted...

3: their distribution network is bad. They want to get rid of dealers.

Isn't there a fucked up law that doesn't allow them to sell at dealerships or something? From what I understand they don't want to get rid of dealers, but they can't sell through dealerships.

No, they want to remove independent dealerships from the equation entirely. That leads to the next problem. No service department.
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Tyranthraxus posted...

they're overkill only in the sense that it's a luxury vehicle. that's like saying flying first class instead of coach is overkill for the average person. truth is nobody needs a lazyboy recliner in an airplane but people want it because it makes the experience better.

no, also in the sense that they use a battery that costs more by itself than the entirety of a short-range EV.
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C7D posted...

voldothegr8 posted...

C7D posted...

3: their distribution network is bad. They want to get rid of dealers.

Isn't there a fucked up law that doesn't allow them to sell at dealerships or something? From what I understand they don't want to get rid of dealers, but they can't sell through dealerships.

No, they want to remove independent dealerships from the equation entirely. That leads to the next problem. No service department.

It's a law in georgia. Basically, for some stupid reason you're not allowed to sell a car in Georgia if it's made in a Georgia factory because I literally have no idea why.

Ford and several others tried to sue Tesla out of the state entirely because Elon Musk started selling cars straight out of his factory in Georgia.

I'd have to doublecheck but I think they failed because some judge somewhere had a brief moment of clarity and said "this is stupid."
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Darkman124 posted...

Tyranthraxus posted...

they're overkill only in the sense that it's a luxury vehicle. that's like saying flying first class instead of coach is overkill for the average person. truth is nobody needs a lazyboy recliner in an airplane but people want it because it makes the experience better.

no, also in the sense that they use a battery that costs more by itself than the entirety of a short-range EV.

The battery also has an 8 year unlimited mile warranty.
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C7D posted...

The battery also has an 8 year unlimited mile warranty.

yes, the battery is of superior quality. it's a really, really fantastic battery. hell, the value for the money is pretty great.

which is great if you're actually going to push it that hard.

but most drivers are not. esp when you consider that the typical commute experience in america is sitting in traffic, not driving a super long distance each way. because EVs thrive in such a commute environment, short-range EVs meet almost all customer needs, and charge storage failure is easily tracked even in the oldest leaf.
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When I think "automakers", I don't think of Tesla. I think of batteries and solar panels.

Luxury? There have been many reports that their QA is shoddy at best.
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Tyranthraxus posted...

C7D posted...

voldothegr8 posted...

C7D posted...

3: their distribution network is bad. They want to get rid of dealers.

Isn't there a fucked up law that doesn't allow them to sell at dealerships or something? From what I understand they don't want to get rid of dealers, but they can't sell through dealerships.

No, they want to remove independent dealerships from the equation entirely. That leads to the next problem. No service department.

It's a law in georgia. Basically, for some stupid reason you're not allowed to sell a car in Georgia if it's made in a Georgia factory because I literally have no idea why.

Ford and several others tried to sue Tesla out of the state entirely because Elon Musk started selling cars straight out of his factory in Georgia.

I'd have to doublecheck but I think they failed because some judge somewhere had a brief moment of clarity and said "this is stupid."

This is true. You have to have a dealership to sell a car. Musk rejects this model which makes sense for him because a) he keeps more from the sale of the vehicle and b) the showroom model gets people excited about the product but he has so much excitement, he cant make them quickly enough.
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I would rather buy two or three houses than one of their cars. Maybe I'm not alone.
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Darkman124 posted...

C7D posted...

The battery also has an 8 year unlimited mile warranty.

yes, the battery is of superior quality. it's a really, really fantastic battery. hell, the value for the money is pretty great.

which is great if you're actually going to push it that hard.

but most drivers are not. esp when you consider that the typical commute experience in america is sitting in traffic, not driving a super long distance each way. because EVs thrive in such a commute environment, short-range EVs meet almost all customer needs, and charge storage failure is easily tracked even in the oldest leaf.

Thats true. A Tesla isnt for everyone. I dont plan on buying one at this time. I want to see how well the company is surviving five years down the road. I would like to have a vehicle that can actually be worked on without shipping it. I drive my cars and wouldnt want to be without them for an extended period of time.
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C7D posted...

Darkman124 posted...

C7D posted...

Cars produced in low quantities are not required to undergo crash testing. I learned this after my insurance adjuster quoted a rate to me for my Porsche a few years ago.

@Darkman124, thats not even an issue in my area. There are supercharger stations within about 5-10 mins of my office. I think it takes around 15 minutes. They are in front of a Target, so you can do some simple shopping and have a fully charged vehicle within minutes.

i'm thinking more in terms of traveling 300+ miles in one trip vs the 70-100 that a leaf has on it

on such a trip you might be hard pressed to find superchargers and would have to alter your path significantly in a leaf. and stop a lot of times.

my point was more that short-range EVs meet 99% of people's needs for a daily driver, and if you know you need a longer range car too, it's cheaper just to buy a gas car and have an extra vehicle.

Thats true and brings up another very good point. Mass acceptance is needed so Tesla could invest in more supercharger stations. I think Honda came up with a really good idea for a hydrogen powered car that failed due to a limited number of filling stations. I think it was called the clarity.

Nissan leafs are really questionable in my book. I dont think they fit the needs of very many people. I always see them for sale for around $9000 with about 3000 miles on them.

The Clarity wasn't a failure--yet. Honda isn't really pushing the hydrogen version, though. All the commercials now are for the hybrid version.

We have the Toyota version, the Mirai. I love driving it, but "hydrogen anxiety" is an issue. Several days ago there was a shortage, and I had to garage it until the station got a new delivery. My husband literally had to coast on fumes a few weeks ago because the station he was planning to use was offline. He barely made it to the next one. (There is roadside service, so he wouldn't have been stranded.)

There are tons of Teslas around here. I see several on a daily basis. (I live really close to where RHOC takes place, though.) It's partly because they get carpool lane stickers even for solo drivers. That's a huge advantage here.
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C7D posted...

Thats true. A Tesla isnt for everyone. I dont plan on buying one at this time. I want to see how well the company is surviving five years down the road. I would like to have a vehicle that can actually be worked on without shipping it. I drive my cars and wouldnt want to be without them for an extended period of time.

can you imagine how much it'd suck to buy a complex piece of electronics only for the manufacturer to go out of business?

i am beginning to feel that fear with my sunpower X-21 solar install. SPWR is not healthy.
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C7D posted...

Darkman124 posted...

Tyranthraxus posted...

they're overkill only in the sense that it's a luxury vehicle. that's like saying flying first class instead of coach is overkill for the average person. truth is nobody needs a lazyboy recliner in an airplane but people want it because it makes the experience better.

no, also in the sense that they use a battery that costs more by itself than the entirety of a short-range EV.

The battery also has an 8 year unlimited mile warranty.

Only 8 years?
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Darkman124 posted...

i dont think you are understanding me

i'm saying tesla is overkill for the average driver and an EV with less range that costs about a quarter as much would suffice, and any driver expecting to make a large number of long drives could easily just buy a cheap gas car--or if only a few long drives, could simply rent.

I didn't misunderstand you. I didn't really read any posts before typing.
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Esrac posted...

Only 8 years?

i mean...most cars have a 10 year drivetrain warranty, fundamentally tesla is saying they trust their battery as much as a big auto manufacturer trusts their engine

that's saying a lot considering the nature of chemical batteries
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Sariana21 posted...

C7D posted...

Darkman124 posted...

C7D posted...

Cars produced in low quantities are not required to undergo crash testing. I learned this after my insurance adjuster quoted a rate to me for my Porsche a few years ago.

@Darkman124, thats not even an issue in my area. There are supercharger stations within about 5-10 mins of my office. I think it takes around 15 minutes. They are in front of a Target, so you can do some simple shopping and have a fully charged vehicle within minutes.

i'm thinking more in terms of traveling 300+ miles in one trip vs the 70-100 that a leaf has on it

on such a trip you might be hard pressed to find superchargers and would have to alter your path significantly in a leaf. and stop a lot of times.

my point was more that short-range EVs meet 99% of people's needs for a daily driver, and if you know you need a longer range car too, it's cheaper just to buy a gas car and have an extra vehicle.

Thats true and brings up another very good point. Mass acceptance is needed so Tesla could invest in more supercharger stations. I think Honda came up with a really good idea for a hydrogen powered car that failed due to a limited number of filling stations. I think it was called the clarity.

Nissan leafs are really questionable in my book. I dont think they fit the needs of very many people. I always see them for sale for around $9000 with about 3000 miles on them.

The Clarity wasn't a failure--yet. Honda isn't really pushing the hydrogen version, though. All the commercials now are for the hybrid version.

We have the Toyota version, the Mirai. I love driving it, but "hydrogen anxiety" is an issue. Several days ago there was a shortage, and I had to garage it until the station got a new delivery. My husband literally had to coast on fumes a few weeks ago because the station he was planning to use was offline. He barely made it to the next one. (There is roadside service, so he wouldn't have been stranded.)

There are tons of Teslas around here. I see several on a daily basis. (I live really close to where RHOC takes place, though.) It's partly because they get carpool lane stickers even for solo drivers. That's a huge advantage here.

Tesla gets the same treatment here. You can use the HOV lane.
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DevsBro posted...

I would rather buy two or three houses than one of their cars. Maybe I'm not alone.

Holy crap I thought I was exaggerating but I just checked and you lierally can buy two or three houses for the price of one of those machines.

They'll be small old ones in the "historic" district of the poor part of town but regardless that's one hell of a feat.
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can you guys remove the tag on me from your quote chain please
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