Current Events > Ceman in programming, how do I get an entry level programming job

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JBaLLEN66 03/26/18 4:44:51 PM #1:	I have job time experience with SQL and vba from my first job. These were secondary tasks, my primary job was inventory management. I'm currently in a sales/credit analyst job that I cannot stand and would love to go in to programming job. --- Him being greedy is a good thing. That means he'll want to spend less and help us get out of this debt. Gamefreak36 <cite>JBaLLEN66 posted [p:898534914] in Ceman in p... [t:76455326]...</cite> <quote>I have job time experience with SQL and vba from my first job. These were secondary tasks, my primary job was inventory management. I'm currently in a sales/credit analyst job that I cannot stand and would love to go in to programming job.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
REMercsChamp 03/26/18 4:49:02 PM #2:	Education? What exactly were you doing with SQL and vba? --- https://i.imgur.com/lwkIVOb.png <cite>REMercsChamp posted [p:898535161] in Ceman in p... [t:76455326]...</cite> <quote>Education? What exactly were you doing with SQL and vba?</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
s0nicfan 03/26/18 4:49:39 PM #3:	Honestly? By learning a real programming language. SQL is what programmers pick up when they're bored and VBA is for teaching children the basic concepts. Bare minimum either Java or C++, Python will get you more research-y jobs. Someone will hire you for knowing C#. You could go full hipster and learn something like Scala, Go, etc and hope some University hires you. Also get familiar with bash scripts, pearl scripts, IDEs, Cmake and/or Ant. --- "History Is Much Like An Endless Waltz. The Three Beats Of War, Peace And Revolution Continue On Forever." - Gundam Wing: Endless Waltz <cite>s0nicfan posted [p:898535204] in Ceman in p... [t:76455326]...</cite> <quote>Honestly? By learning a real programming language. SQL is what programmers pick up when they're bored and VBA is for teaching children the basic concepts. Bare minimum either Java or C++, Python will get you more research-y jobs. Someone will hire you for knowing C#. You could go full hipster and learn something like Scala, Go, etc and hope some University hires you. Also get familiar with bash scripts, pearl scripts, IDEs, Cmake and/or Ant.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
REMercsChamp 03/26/18 4:52:08 PM #4:	s0nicfan posted... Honestly? By learning a real programming language. SQL is what programmers pick up when they're bored and VBA is for teaching children the basic concepts. This is the most random thing I've ever heard. You need to be good at SQL if your system is running off of it. Why would people pick it up when they're bored? They probably wouldn't pick it up unless they needed to use it. --- https://i.imgur.com/lwkIVOb.png <cite>REMercsChamp posted [p:898535346] in Ceman in p... [t:76455326]...</cite> <quote><cite>s0nicfan posted...</cite> <quote>Honestly? By learning a real programming language. SQL is what programmers pick up when they're bored and VBA is for teaching children the basic concepts. </quote> This is the most random thing I've ever heard. You need to be good at SQL if your system is running off of it. Why would people pick it up when they're bored? They probably wouldn't pick it up unless they needed to use it.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
s0nicfan 03/26/18 4:55:02 PM #5:	REMercsChamp posted... s0nicfan posted... Honestly? By learning a real programming language. SQL is what programmers pick up when they're bored and VBA is for teaching children the basic concepts. This is the most random thing I've ever heard. You need to be good at SQL if your system is running off of it. Why would people pick it up when they're bored? They probably wouldn't pick it up unless they needed to use it. It's barely a language, and there are a thousand tools and packages to handle the hard work for you. By "when they're bored" I was being factitious. Of course they learn it when they need to use it for a system, but that's my point. It's a utility and not a standalone skill.Something you pick up quickly when it's necessary. It's the thing you add as a bonus to your resume and not the central focus. --- "History Is Much Like An Endless Waltz. The Three Beats Of War, Peace And Revolution Continue On Forever." - Gundam Wing: Endless Waltz <cite>s0nicfan posted [p:898535514] in Ceman in p... [t:76455326]...</cite> <quote><cite>REMercsChamp posted...</cite> <quote><cite>s0nicfan posted...</cite> <quote>Honestly? By learning a real programming language. SQL is what programmers pick up when they're bored and VBA is for teaching children the basic concepts. </quote> This is the most random thing I've ever heard. You need to be good at SQL if your system is running off of it. Why would people pick it up when they're bored? They probably wouldn't pick it up unless they needed to use it.</quote> It's barely a language, and there are a thousand tools and packages to handle the hard work for you. By "when they're bored" I was being factitious. Of course they learn it when they need to use it for a system, but that's my point. It's a utility and not a standalone skill.Something you pick up quickly when it's necessary. It's the thing you add as a bonus to your resume and not the central focus.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
REMercsChamp 03/26/18 4:55:49 PM #6:	s0nicfan posted... REMercsChamp posted... s0nicfan posted... Honestly? By learning a real programming language. SQL is what programmers pick up when they're bored and VBA is for teaching children the basic concepts. This is the most random thing I've ever heard. You need to be good at SQL if your system is running off of it. Why would people pick it up when they're bored? They probably wouldn't pick it up unless they needed to use it. It's barely a language, and there are a thousand tools and packages to handle the hard work for you. By "when they're bored" I was being factitious. Of course they learn it when they need to use it for a system, but that's my point. It's a utility and not a standalone skill. It's the thing you add as a bonus to your resume and not the central focus. At my company it's critical to know SQL if you're in development (SaaS) --- https://i.imgur.com/lwkIVOb.png <cite>REMercsChamp posted [p:898535577] in Ceman in p... [t:76455326]...</cite> <quote><cite>s0nicfan posted...</cite> <quote><cite>REMercsChamp posted...</cite> <quote><cite>s0nicfan posted...</cite> <quote>Honestly? By learning a real programming language. SQL is what programmers pick up when they're bored and VBA is for teaching children the basic concepts. </quote> This is the most random thing I've ever heard. You need to be good at SQL if your system is running off of it. Why would people pick it up when they're bored? They probably wouldn't pick it up unless they needed to use it.</quote> It's barely a language, and there are a thousand tools and packages to handle the hard work for you. By "when they're bored" I was being factitious. Of course they learn it when they need to use it for a system, but that's my point. It's a utility and not a standalone skill. It's the thing you add as a bonus to your resume and not the central focus.</quote> At my company it's critical to know SQL if you're in development (SaaS)</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
JBaLLEN66 03/26/18 4:56:22 PM #7:	REMercsChamp posted... Education? What exactly were you doing with SQL and vba? Supply Chain management, I was using SQL to help build databases for the Industrial Engineer team --- Him being greedy is a good thing. That means he'll want to spend less and help us get out of this debt. Gamefreak36 <cite>JBaLLEN66 posted [p:898535608] in Ceman in p... [t:76455326]...</cite> <quote><cite>REMercsChamp posted...</cite> <quote>Education? What exactly were you doing with SQL and vba?</quote> Supply Chain management, I was using SQL to help build databases for the Industrial Engineer team</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Giant_Aspirin 03/26/18 4:57:17 PM #8:	* start learning a 'real' language. something that can be used server-side (Java, .NET, etc) or you can focus on Javascript if you wanna stay front-end. * build a portfolio of your code. that'll be the best way to get your foot in the door without an "equivalent degree" s0nicfan posted... SQL is what programmers pick up when they're bored that's not accurate SQL is something that I use pretty regularly being a "back end" developer. I'm in charge of writing and designing applications that often need a database and any interaction between the application and the database (SQL) is my responsibility. --- Playing: Shadow of the Colossus (PS4) *(~);} - Get out the pans, don't just stand there dreamin' - {;(~)* <cite>Giant_Aspirin posted [p:898535671] in Ceman in p... [t:76455326]...</cite> <quote>* start learning a 'real' language. something that can be used server-side (Java, .NET, etc) or you can focus on Javascript if you wanna stay front-end. * build a portfolio of your code. that'll be the best way to get your foot in the door without an "equivalent degree" <cite>s0nicfan posted...</cite> <quote>SQL is what programmers pick up when they're bored</quote> that's not accurate SQL is something that I use pretty regularly being a "back end" developer. I'm in charge of writing and designing applications that often need a database and any interaction between the application and the database (SQL) is my responsibility.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
DevsBro 03/26/18 4:57:29 PM #9:	Learn that mothereffing .net platform. Employers love that garbage for some reason. --- http://backloggery.com/devsbro/sig.gif http://i.imgur.com/kU5vu5N.png Never pepper popcorn <cite>DevsBro posted [p:898535676] in Ceman in p... [t:76455326]...</cite> <quote>Learn that mothereffing .net platform. Employers love that garbage for some reason.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Rika_Furude 03/26/18 4:57:49 PM #10:	A university degree is a good idea. If thats a bit out of your reach, get a safaribooks online subscription. In terms of learning a new skill, a course > books > free online tutorials Either way, once you get the basics you will want to build up a portfolio of example work. I suggest starting either with Python or Javascript. If you want to be a web developer you will want to learn SQL at some point. --- Posted with GameRaven 3.4 <cite>Rika_Furude posted [p:898535694] in Ceman in p... [t:76455326]...</cite> <quote>A university degree is a good idea. If thats a bit out of your reach, get a safaribooks online subscription. In terms of learning a new skill, a course > books > free online tutorials Either way, once you get the basics you will want to build up a portfolio of example work. I suggest starting either with Python or Javascript. If you want to be a web developer you will want to learn SQL at some point.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
REMercsChamp 03/26/18 4:58:19 PM #11:	JBaLLEN66 posted... REMercsChamp posted... Education? What exactly were you doing with SQL and vba? Supply Chain management, I was using SQL to help build databases for the Industrial Engineer team What technologies were you using? Don't say Access --- https://i.imgur.com/lwkIVOb.png <cite>REMercsChamp posted [p:898535735] in Ceman in p... [t:76455326]...</cite> <quote><cite>JBaLLEN66 posted...</cite> <quote><cite>REMercsChamp posted...</cite> <quote>Education? What exactly were you doing with SQL and vba?</quote> Supply Chain management, I was using SQL to help build databases for the Industrial Engineer team</quote> What technologies were you using? Don't say Access</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Joenage 03/26/18 5:01:25 PM #12:	I started in IT Support and worked my way up internally within a year. (C# with no prior experience, I have a Computing degree too though) --- Joenage. <cite>Joenage posted [p:898535928] in Ceman in p... [t:76455326]...</cite> <quote>I started in IT Support and worked my way up internally within a year. (C# with no prior experience, I have a Computing degree too though)</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
1337toothbrush 03/26/18 5:03:20 PM #13:	s0nicfan posted... SQL is what programmers pick up when they're bored LOOOL!! What the fuck are you talking about? Pretty much any relational database uses some form of SQL and even some non-relational databases use a SQL-like language. --- :D https://imgur.com/a/FU9H8 <cite>1337toothbrush posted [p:898536046] in Ceman in p... [t:76455326]...</cite> <quote><cite>s0nicfan posted...</cite> <quote>SQL is what programmers pick up when they're bored </quote> LOOOL!! What the fuck are you talking about? Pretty much any relational database uses some form of SQL and even some non-relational databases use a SQL-like language.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Joenage 03/26/18 5:04:44 PM #14:	And yeah scrap the VBA. Left my C# job to get extra money as a VBA/SQL programmer, worst decision of my life --- Joenage. <cite>Joenage posted [p:898536122] in Ceman in p... [t:76455326]...</cite> <quote>And yeah scrap the VBA. Left my C# job to get extra money as a VBA/SQL programmer, worst decision of my life</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Romulox28 03/26/18 5:05:44 PM #15:	i thought SQL & VBA were more for data analysts than programmers --- http://i.imgur.com/LhwwG.gif <cite>Romulox28 posted [p:898536179] in Ceman in p... [t:76455326]...</cite> <quote>i thought SQL & VBA were more for data analysts than programmers</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
s0nicfan 03/26/18 5:06:09 PM #16:	1337toothbrush posted... s0nicfan posted... SQL is what programmers pick up when they're bored LOOOL!! What the fuck are you talking about? Pretty much any relational database uses some form of SQL and even some non-relational databases use a SQL-like language. Sure, and SQL takes about 10 minutes to learn plus all the "hard parts" are abstracted away through modern languages, 3rd party libraries, and packages. I'm not saying SQL isn't used, I'm saying SQL by itself isn't a marketable skill. It's like selling yourself on being able to build your own compiler. The question is "why would you?" --- "History Is Much Like An Endless Waltz. The Three Beats Of War, Peace And Revolution Continue On Forever." - Gundam Wing: Endless Waltz <cite>s0nicfan posted [p:898536208] in Ceman in p... [t:76455326]...</cite> <quote><cite>1337toothbrush posted...</cite> <quote><cite>s0nicfan posted...</cite> <quote>SQL is what programmers pick up when they're bored </quote> LOOOL!! What the fuck are you talking about? Pretty much any relational database uses some form of SQL and even some non-relational databases use a SQL-like language.</quote> Sure, and SQL takes about 10 minutes to learn plus all the "hard parts" are abstracted away through modern languages, 3rd party libraries, and packages. I'm not saying SQL isn't used, I'm saying SQL by itself isn't a marketable skill. It's like selling yourself on being able to build your own compiler. The question is "why would you?"</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
JBaLLEN66 03/26/18 5:06:57 PM #17:	REMercsChamp posted... JBaLLEN66 posted... REMercsChamp posted... Education? What exactly were you doing with SQL and vba? Supply Chain management, I was using SQL to help build databases for the Industrial Engineer team What technologies were you using? Don't say Access Pretty sure I was using Oracle --- Him being greedy is a good thing. That means he'll want to spend less and help us get out of this debt. Gamefreak36 <cite>JBaLLEN66 posted [p:898536263] in Ceman in p... [t:76455326]...</cite> <quote><cite>REMercsChamp posted...</cite> <quote><cite>JBaLLEN66 posted...</cite> <quote><cite>REMercsChamp posted...</cite> <quote>Education? What exactly were you doing with SQL and vba?</quote> Supply Chain management, I was using SQL to help build databases for the Industrial Engineer team</quote> What technologies were you using? Don't say Access</quote> Pretty sure I was using Oracle</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
JBaLLEN66 03/26/18 5:07:31 PM #18:	Romulox28 posted... i thought SQL & VBA were more for data analysts than programmers they are --- Him being greedy is a good thing. That means he'll want to spend less and help us get out of this debt. Gamefreak36 <cite>JBaLLEN66 posted [p:898536303] in Ceman in p... [t:76455326]...</cite> <quote><cite>Romulox28 posted...</cite> <quote>i thought SQL & VBA were more for data analysts than programmers</quote> they are</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
GreatEvilEmpire 03/26/18 5:09:06 PM #19:	You don't need a university degree, just a passion for programming. We hired a kid who didn't graduate high school and a guy who didn't graduate college. If you want to get into programming, make it a hobby. Nobody is going to hire you because you know SQL. Pick a starting point like HTML/CSS and then move on to Javascript, Python, SWIFT, C++, etc. Many companies want full-stack developers. If you can't do full-stack, then you need to be really good with one thing. --- Sig under construction! <cite>GreatEvilEmpire posted [p:898536391] in Ceman in p... [t:76455326]...</cite> <quote>You don't need a university degree, just a passion for programming. We hired a kid who didn't graduate high school and a guy who didn't graduate college. If you want to get into programming, make it a hobby. Nobody is going to hire you because you know SQL. Pick a starting point like HTML/CSS and then move on to Javascript, Python, SWIFT, C++, etc. Many companies want full-stack developers. If you can't do full-stack, then you need to be really good with one thing.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
JBaLLEN66 03/26/18 5:11:50 PM #20:	GreatEvilEmpire posted... You don't need a university degree, just a passion for programming. We hired a kid who didn't graduate high school and a guy who didn't graduate college. If you want to get into programming, make it a hobby. Nobody is going to hire you because you know SQL. Pick a starting point like HTML/CSS and then move on to Javascript, Python, SWIFT, C++, etc. Many companies want full-stack developers. If you can't do full-stack, then you need to be really good with one thing. well how I get the business sql jobs --- Him being greedy is a good thing. That means he'll want to spend less and help us get out of this debt. Gamefreak36 <cite>JBaLLEN66 posted [p:898536538] in Ceman in p... [t:76455326]...</cite> <quote><cite>GreatEvilEmpire posted...</cite> <quote>You don't need a university degree, just a passion for programming. We hired a kid who didn't graduate high school and a guy who didn't graduate college. If you want to get into programming, make it a hobby. Nobody is going to hire you because you know SQL. Pick a starting point like HTML/CSS and then move on to Javascript, Python, SWIFT, C++, etc. Many companies want full-stack developers. If you can't do full-stack, then you need to be really good with one thing.</quote> well how I get the business sql jobs</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
lesidesi 03/26/18 5:13:27 PM #21:	learn python/R and go into finance lots of traders just need pure programming horse power to build up models and my quants don't really need much more than python/R --- If they can get you asking the wrong questions, they don't have to worry about the answers. <cite>lesidesi posted [p:898536626] in Ceman in p... [t:76455326]...</cite> <quote>learn python/R and go into finance lots of traders just need pure programming horse power to build up models and my quants don't really need much more than python/R</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
s0nicfan 03/26/18 5:15:56 PM #22:	lesidesi posted... learn python/R and go into finance lots of traders just need pure programming horse power to build up models and my quants don't really need much more than python/R You're going to have a really hard time getting into finance with Python. The language is famously inefficient and while it's insanely good at letting you do things like create neural networks with 3 lines of code, it'll never have the performance necessary for a high end financial system. Python is more for prototyping and transitioning academics off of Matlab in that regard. If you wanna go full finance, learn how to use realtime operating systems and C++ and/or the realtime version of Java. Note: My knowledge in this particular subject might be slightly out of date, but my company lost a developer to NASDAQ a couple of years back and it was specifically for his C++/Java skills. --- "History Is Much Like An Endless Waltz. The Three Beats Of War, Peace And Revolution Continue On Forever." - Gundam Wing: Endless Waltz <cite>s0nicfan posted [p:898536776] in Ceman in p... [t:76455326]...</cite> <quote><cite>lesidesi posted...</cite> <quote>learn python/R and go into finance lots of traders just need pure programming horse power to build up models and my quants don't really need much more than python/R</quote> You're going to have a really hard time getting into finance with Python. The language is famously inefficient and while it's insanely good at letting you do things like create neural networks with 3 lines of code, it'll never have the performance necessary for a high end financial system. Python is more for prototyping and transitioning academics off of Matlab in that regard. If you wanna go full finance, learn how to use realtime operating systems and C++ and/or the realtime version of Java. Note: My knowledge in this particular subject might be slightly out of date, but my company lost a developer to NASDAQ a couple of years back and it was specifically for his C++/Java skills.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
lesidesi 03/26/18 5:17:24 PM #23:	working for an exchange (a tech company) is different than working for traders i don't need my quants to do c++ level shit, i need them to backtest, run fixed income models, etc --- If they can get you asking the wrong questions, they don't have to worry about the answers. <cite>lesidesi posted [p:898536867] in Ceman in p... [t:76455326]...</cite> <quote>working for an exchange (a tech company) is different than working for traders i don't need my quants to do c++ level shit, i need them to backtest, run fixed income models, etc</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
s0nicfan 03/26/18 5:18:18 PM #24:	lesidesi posted... working for an exchange (a tech company) is different than working for traders i don't need my quants to do c++ level shit, i need them to backtest, run fixed income models, etc Ah yea, for modeling and simulation I could see why python would be the way to go. --- "History Is Much Like An Endless Waltz. The Three Beats Of War, Peace And Revolution Continue On Forever." - Gundam Wing: Endless Waltz <cite>s0nicfan posted [p:898536917] in Ceman in p... [t:76455326]...</cite> <quote><cite>lesidesi posted...</cite> <quote>working for an exchange (a tech company) is different than working for traders i don't need my quants to do c++ level shit, i need them to backtest, run fixed income models, etc</quote> Ah yea, for modeling and simulation I could see why python would be the way to go.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
lesidesi 03/26/18 5:24:46 PM #25:	also if you look at the mathy jobs strats/modeling jobs at banks like goldman, almost everything is in python --- If they can get you asking the wrong questions, they don't have to worry about the answers. <cite>lesidesi posted [p:898537288] in Ceman in p... [t:76455326]...</cite> <quote>also if you look at the mathy jobs strats/modeling jobs at banks like goldman, almost everything is in python</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
APM 03/26/18 5:25:09 PM #26:	Honestly the most important thing is your portfolio. If you're still in school try to get some co-ops and internships --- https://imgur.com/a/9W9Yy <cite>APM posted [p:898537303] in Ceman in p... [t:76455326]...</cite> <quote>Honestly the most important thing is your portfolio. If you're still in school try to get some co-ops and internships</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
IllegalAlien 03/26/18 5:27:22 PM #27:	SQL can be arbitrarily complex and difficult to write when you're performing a complex query over a large dataset. --- "Never argue with an idiot, they drag you down to their level, then beat you with experience." <cite>IllegalAlien posted [p:898537447] in Ceman in p... [t:76455326]...</cite> <quote>SQL can be arbitrarily complex and difficult to write when you're performing a complex query over a large dataset.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
lesidesi 03/26/18 5:27:36 PM #28:	to be fair though everyone in the goldman strats group knows c++ anyway --- If they can get you asking the wrong questions, they don't have to worry about the answers. <cite>lesidesi posted [p:898537456] in Ceman in p... [t:76455326]...</cite> <quote>to be fair though everyone in the goldman strats group knows c++ anyway</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
lesidesi 03/26/18 5:29:50 PM #29:	a funny and totally academic (non-practical) fact is that SQL is actually turing complete --- If they can get you asking the wrong questions, they don't have to worry about the answers. <cite>lesidesi posted [p:898537591] in Ceman in p... [t:76455326]...</cite> <quote>a funny and totally academic (non-practical) fact is that SQL is actually turing complete</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
REMercsChamp 03/26/18 5:40:34 PM #30:	Anyway TC to address your question you've got a few options here: 1. Go back to school for computer science/programming, get co-op, entry job etc 2. Haul ass learning it on your own time, build portfolio, hope someone takes a gamble on you 3. Trick someone into thinking querying that database and writing excel macros makes you qualified to be a programmer 4. Somehow leverage your experience into a programming position at your company --- https://i.imgur.com/lwkIVOb.png <cite>REMercsChamp posted [p:898538225] in Ceman in p... [t:76455326]...</cite> <quote>Anyway TC to address your question you've got a few options here: 1. Go back to school for computer science/programming, get co-op, entry job etc 2. Haul ass learning it on your own time, build portfolio, hope someone takes a gamble on you 3. Trick someone into thinking querying that database and writing excel macros makes you qualified to be a programmer 4. Somehow leverage your experience into a programming position at your company</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
JBaLLEN66 03/26/18 5:40:59 PM #31:	I don't want to be in finance, I'm already in it and I hate it --- Him being greedy is a good thing. That means he'll want to spend less and help us get out of this debt. Gamefreak36 <cite>JBaLLEN66 posted [p:898538248] in Ceman in p... [t:76455326]...</cite> <quote>I don't want to be in finance, I'm already in it and I hate it</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Cleo_II 03/26/18 5:45:45 PM #32:	If youre good with SQL you can try to get on a path to be a SQL database admin. If you want to be a developer though, start by learning an object oriented language like Java or C#. JavaScript is really useful too. No one is going to give you a dev job because you know SQL and vba. <cite>Cleo_II posted [p:898538512] in Ceman in p... [t:76455326]...</cite> <quote>If youre good with SQL you can try to get on a path to be a SQL database admin. If you want to be a developer though, start by learning an object oriented language like Java or C#. JavaScript is really useful too. No one is going to give you a dev job because you know SQL and vba.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Master_Bass 03/26/18 5:47:03 PM #33:	s0nicfan posted... REMercsChamp posted... s0nicfan posted... Honestly? By learning a real programming language. SQL is what programmers pick up when they're bored and VBA is for teaching children the basic concepts. This is the most random thing I've ever heard. You need to be good at SQL if your system is running off of it. Why would people pick it up when they're bored? They probably wouldn't pick it up unless they needed to use it. It's barely a language, and there are a thousand tools and packages to handle the hard work for you. By "when they're bored" I was being factitious. Of course they learn it when they need to use it for a system, but that's my point. It's a utility and not a standalone skill.Something you pick up quickly when it's necessary. It's the thing you add as a bonus to your resume and not the central focus. Someone has never heard of database administrators. --- Many Bothans died to bring you this post. <cite>Master_Bass posted [p:898538584] in Ceman in p... [t:76455326]...</cite> <quote><cite>s0nicfan posted...</cite> <quote><cite>REMercsChamp posted...</cite> <quote><cite>s0nicfan posted...</cite> <quote>Honestly? By learning a real programming language. SQL is what programmers pick up when they're bored and VBA is for teaching children the basic concepts. </quote> This is the most random thing I've ever heard. You need to be good at SQL if your system is running off of it. Why would people pick it up when they're bored? They probably wouldn't pick it up unless they needed to use it.</quote> It's barely a language, and there are a thousand tools and packages to handle the hard work for you. By "when they're bored" I was being factitious. Of course they learn it when they need to use it for a system, but that's my point. It's a utility and not a standalone skill.Something you pick up quickly when it's necessary. It's the thing you add as a bonus to your resume and not the central focus.</quote> Someone has never heard of database administrators.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Rathalos888 03/26/18 5:48:28 PM #34:	If you can't get a degree, then something huge right now is AngularJS/NodeJS. Both very popular and look great on a resume if you know what you're doing with them. Developing a simple webapp with these tools and doing some of the operations work required to get the app hosted would look great on your GitHub page. Java/C++ is also absolutely vital and should really be the first thing you do- SQL isn't really a programming language. It's good to know for sure, but it's not going to get you a software development position. There are a ton of tools online for this. You need to know these languages well- it will make picking up other languages very easy, and Java (or something similar, such as C# or Groovy) is commonly used in the workplace. So, yeah. Go learn Java or C++. Know the basics, know your data structures and how to make them yourself. Learn some sorting algorithms, learn the basics of time complexity analysis, learn about referencing and pointers (in C++) and overloading operators and templating and all the nitty gritty. None of that will be used at your job- but you will know how to program, in any language. Build a little resume of applications on a GitHub page and share it on your linked in, then start applying! --- Not changing this sig until TimeSplitters 4 is released. Started 11/07/10 PSN: CaptainChuz --- SoundCloud: soundcloud.com/rathalos887 <cite>Rathalos888 posted [p:898538674] in Ceman in p... [t:76455326]...</cite> <quote>If you can't get a degree, then something huge right now is AngularJS/NodeJS. Both very popular and look great on a resume if you know what you're doing with them. Developing a simple webapp with these tools and doing some of the operations work required to get the app hosted would look great on your GitHub page. Java/C++ is also absolutely vital and should really be the first thing you do- SQL isn't really a programming language. It's good to know for sure, but it's not going to get you a software development position. There are a ton of tools online for this. You need to know these languages well- it will make picking up other languages very easy, and Java (or something similar, such as C# or Groovy) is commonly used in the workplace. So, yeah. Go learn Java or C++. Know the basics, know your data structures and how to make them yourself. Learn some sorting algorithms, learn the basics of time complexity analysis, learn about referencing and pointers (in C++) and overloading operators and templating and all the nitty gritty. None of that will be used at your job- but you will know how to program, in any language. Build a little resume of applications on a GitHub page and share it on your linked in, then start applying!</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
s0nicfan 03/26/18 5:48:52 PM #35:	Master_Bass posted... s0nicfan posted... REMercsChamp posted... s0nicfan posted... Honestly? By learning a real programming language. SQL is what programmers pick up when they're bored and VBA is for teaching children the basic concepts. This is the most random thing I've ever heard. You need to be good at SQL if your system is running off of it. Why would people pick it up when they're bored? They probably wouldn't pick it up unless they needed to use it. It's barely a language, and there are a thousand tools and packages to handle the hard work for you. By "when they're bored" I was being factitious. Of course they learn it when they need to use it for a system, but that's my point. It's a utility and not a standalone skill.Something you pick up quickly when it's necessary. It's the thing you add as a bonus to your resume and not the central focus. Someone has never heard of database administrators. They're the guys that Pep Boys hires to change oil while the mechanics do the actual repairs, right? --- "History Is Much Like An Endless Waltz. The Three Beats Of War, Peace And Revolution Continue On Forever." - Gundam Wing: Endless Waltz <cite>s0nicfan posted [p:898538698] in Ceman in p... [t:76455326]...</cite> <quote><cite>Master_Bass posted...</cite> <quote><cite>s0nicfan posted...</cite> <quote><cite>REMercsChamp posted...</cite> <quote><cite>s0nicfan posted...</cite> <quote>Honestly? By learning a real programming language. SQL is what programmers pick up when they're bored and VBA is for teaching children the basic concepts. </quote> This is the most random thing I've ever heard. You need to be good at SQL if your system is running off of it. Why would people pick it up when they're bored? They probably wouldn't pick it up unless they needed to use it.</quote> It's barely a language, and there are a thousand tools and packages to handle the hard work for you. By "when they're bored" I was being factitious. Of course they learn it when they need to use it for a system, but that's my point. It's a utility and not a standalone skill.Something you pick up quickly when it's necessary. It's the thing you add as a bonus to your resume and not the central focus.</quote> Someone has never heard of database administrators.</quote> They're the guys that Pep Boys hires to change oil while the mechanics do the actual repairs, right?</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
REMercsChamp 03/26/18 5:52:19 PM #36:	SQL: Select * from table WOW. And people call this a fucking programming language --- https://i.imgur.com/lwkIVOb.png <cite>REMercsChamp posted [p:898538885] in Ceman in p... [t:76455326]...</cite> <quote>SQL: Select * from table WOW. And people call this a fucking programming language</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
JBaLLEN66 03/26/18 5:53:02 PM #37:	Cleo_II posted... If youre good with SQL you can try to get on a path to be a SQL database admin. If you want to be a developer though, start by learning an object oriented language like Java or C#. JavaScript is really useful too. No one is going to give you a dev job because you know SQL and vba. are those jobs hard to get --- Him being greedy is a good thing. That means he'll want to spend less and help us get out of this debt. Gamefreak36 <cite>JBaLLEN66 posted [p:898538925] in Ceman in p... [t:76455326]...</cite> <quote><cite>Cleo_II posted...</cite> <quote>If youre good with SQL you can try to get on a path to be a SQL database admin. If you want to be a developer though, start by learning an object oriented language like Java or C#. JavaScript is really useful too. No one is going to give you a dev job because you know SQL and vba.</quote> are those jobs hard to get</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
lesidesi 03/26/18 5:54:03 PM #38:	REMercsChamp posted... SQL: Select * from table WOW. And people call this a fucking programming language simplicity doesn't imply a lack of depth SQL is extremely useful for database work and don't forget lesidesi posted... a funny and totally academic (non-practical) fact is that SQL is actually turing complete --- If they can get you asking the wrong questions, they don't have to worry about the answers. <cite>lesidesi posted [p:898538981] in Ceman in p... [t:76455326]...</cite> <quote><cite>REMercsChamp posted...</cite> <quote>SQL: Select * from table WOW. And people call this a fucking programming language</quote> simplicity doesn't imply a lack of depth SQL is extremely useful for database work and don't forget <cite>lesidesi posted...</cite> <quote>a funny and totally academic (non-practical) fact is that SQL is actually turing complete</quote></quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
IllegalAlien 03/26/18 5:56:37 PM #39:	s0nicfan posted... Master_Bass posted... s0nicfan posted... REMercsChamp posted... s0nicfan posted... Honestly? By learning a real programming language. SQL is what programmers pick up when they're bored and VBA is for teaching children the basic concepts. This is the most random thing I've ever heard. You need to be good at SQL if your system is running off of it. Why would people pick it up when they're bored? They probably wouldn't pick it up unless they needed to use it. It's barely a language, and there are a thousand tools and packages to handle the hard work for you. By "when they're bored" I was being factitious. Of course they learn it when they need to use it for a system, but that's my point. It's a utility and not a standalone skill.Something you pick up quickly when it's necessary. It's the thing you add as a bonus to your resume and not the central focus. Someone has never heard of database administrators. They're the guys that Pep Boys hires to change oil while the mechanics do the actual repairs, right? Are you still in school? DBMS is a relatively boring subject when you take it, but in the real world RDBMS ecosystem you'll be very glad you understand SQL. Also Data Science positions tend to require strong SQL as well. --- "Never argue with an idiot, they drag you down to their level, then beat you with experience." <cite>IllegalAlien posted [p:898539122] in Ceman in p... [t:76455326]...</cite> <quote><cite>s0nicfan posted...</cite> <quote><cite>Master_Bass posted...</cite> <quote><cite>s0nicfan posted...</cite> <quote><cite>REMercsChamp posted...</cite> <quote><cite>s0nicfan posted...</cite> <quote>Honestly? By learning a real programming language. SQL is what programmers pick up when they're bored and VBA is for teaching children the basic concepts. </quote> This is the most random thing I've ever heard. You need to be good at SQL if your system is running off of it. Why would people pick it up when they're bored? They probably wouldn't pick it up unless they needed to use it.</quote> It's barely a language, and there are a thousand tools and packages to handle the hard work for you. By "when they're bored" I was being factitious. Of course they learn it when they need to use it for a system, but that's my point. It's a utility and not a standalone skill.Something you pick up quickly when it's necessary. It's the thing you add as a bonus to your resume and not the central focus.</quote> Someone has never heard of database administrators.</quote> They're the guys that Pep Boys hires to change oil while the mechanics do the actual repairs, right?</quote> Are you still in school? DBMS is a relatively boring subject when you take it, but in the real world RDBMS ecosystem you'll be very glad you understand SQL. Also Data Science positions tend to require strong SQL as well.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Cleo_II 03/26/18 5:57:27 PM #40:	JBaLLEN66 posted... Cleo_II posted... If youre good with SQL you can try to get on a path to be a SQL database admin. If you want to be a developer though, start by learning an object oriented language like Java or C#. JavaScript is really useful too. No one is going to give you a dev job because you know SQL and vba. are those jobs hard to get Tech jobs in generally are hard to get. Especially if youre a credit analyst now and your tech experience was in the past. I would look into what classes or certifications you can get to help your chances. <cite>Cleo_II posted [p:898539179] in Ceman in p... [t:76455326]...</cite> <quote><cite>JBaLLEN66 posted...</cite> <quote><cite>Cleo_II posted...</cite> <quote>If youre good with SQL you can try to get on a path to be a SQL database admin. If you want to be a developer though, start by learning an object oriented language like Java or C#. JavaScript is really useful too. No one is going to give you a dev job because you know SQL and vba.</quote> are those jobs hard to get</quote> Tech jobs in generally are hard to get. Especially if youre a credit analyst now and your tech experience was in the past. I would look into what classes or certifications you can get to help your chances.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
s0nicfan 03/26/18 6:04:07 PM #41:	IllegalAlien posted... Are you still in school? DBMS is a relatively boring subject when you take it, but in the real world RDBMS ecosystem you'll be very glad you understand SQL. Also Data Science positions tend to require strong SQL as well. I don't know why so many people don't bother reading topics, but as I've said multiple times now I'm aware that SQL has its uses, but the TC is looking for a programming job, now a DBM or data analyst job. Within the realm of programming, SQL is a support tool at best. --- "History Is Much Like An Endless Waltz. The Three Beats Of War, Peace And Revolution Continue On Forever." - Gundam Wing: Endless Waltz <cite>s0nicfan posted [p:898539569] in Ceman in p... [t:76455326]...</cite> <quote><cite>IllegalAlien posted...</cite> <quote>Are you still in school? DBMS is a relatively boring subject when you take it, but in the real world RDBMS ecosystem you'll be very glad you understand SQL. Also Data Science positions tend to require strong SQL as well.</quote> I don't know why so many people don't bother reading topics, but as I've said multiple times now I'm aware that SQL has its uses, but the TC is looking for a programming job, now a DBM or data analyst job. Within the realm of programming, SQL is a support tool at best.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
JBaLLEN66 03/26/18 6:05:06 PM #42:	s0nicfan posted... IllegalAlien posted... Are you still in school? DBMS is a relatively boring subject when you take it, but in the real world RDBMS ecosystem you'll be very glad you understand SQL. Also Data Science positions tend to require strong SQL as well. I don't know why so many people don't bother reading topics, but as I've said multiple times now I'm aware that SQL has its uses, but the TC is looking for a programming job, now a DBM or data analyst job. Within the realm of programming, SQL is a support tool at best. Sorry, I meant data analyst or DBM job --- Him being greedy is a good thing. That means he'll want to spend less and help us get out of this debt. Gamefreak36 <cite>JBaLLEN66 posted [p:898539648] in Ceman in p... [t:76455326]...</cite> <quote><cite>s0nicfan posted...</cite> <quote><cite>IllegalAlien posted...</cite> <quote>Are you still in school? DBMS is a relatively boring subject when you take it, but in the real world RDBMS ecosystem you'll be very glad you understand SQL. Also Data Science positions tend to require strong SQL as well.</quote> I don't know why so many people don't bother reading topics, but as I've said multiple times now I'm aware that SQL has its uses, but the TC is looking for a programming job, now a DBM or data analyst job. Within the realm of programming, SQL is a support tool at best.</quote> Sorry, I meant data analyst or DBM job</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
REMercsChamp 03/26/18 6:07:45 PM #43:	s0nicfan posted... IllegalAlien posted... Are you still in school? DBMS is a relatively boring subject when you take it, but in the real world RDBMS ecosystem you'll be very glad you understand SQL. Also Data Science positions tend to require strong SQL as well. I don't know why so many people don't bother reading topics, but as I've said multiple times now I'm aware that SQL has its uses, but the TC is looking for a programming job, now a DBM or data analyst job. Within the realm of programming, SQL is a support tool at best. Unless you want to be a SQL developer --- https://i.imgur.com/lwkIVOb.png <cite>REMercsChamp posted [p:898539789] in Ceman in p... [t:76455326]...</cite> <quote><cite>s0nicfan posted...</cite> <quote><cite>IllegalAlien posted...</cite> <quote>Are you still in school? DBMS is a relatively boring subject when you take it, but in the real world RDBMS ecosystem you'll be very glad you understand SQL. Also Data Science positions tend to require strong SQL as well.</quote> I don't know why so many people don't bother reading topics, but as I've said multiple times now I'm aware that SQL has its uses, but the TC is looking for a programming job, now a DBM or data analyst job. Within the realm of programming, SQL is a support tool at best.</quote> Unless you want to be a SQL developer</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Tyranthraxus 03/26/18 6:11:06 PM #44:	DevsBro posted... Learn that mothereffing .net platform. Employers love that garbage for some reason. Because of Microsoft partnership benefits and general ease of integration into other Windows products. --- https://puu.sh/tcLsT/24f4611235.png https://i.imgur.com/dQgC4kv.jpg <cite>Tyranthraxus posted [p:898539964] in Ceman in p... [t:76455326]...</cite> <quote><cite>DevsBro posted...</cite> <quote>Learn that mothereffing .net platform. Employers love that garbage for some reason.</quote> Because of Microsoft partnership benefits and general ease of integration into other Windows products.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
IllegalAlien 03/26/18 6:13:28 PM #45:	s0nicfan posted... IllegalAlien posted... Are you still in school? DBMS is a relatively boring subject when you take it, but in the real world RDBMS ecosystem you'll be very glad you understand SQL. Also Data Science positions tend to require strong SQL as well. I don't know why so many people don't bother reading topics, but as I've said multiple times now I'm aware that SQL has its uses, but the TC is looking for a programming job, now a DBM or data analyst job. Within the realm of programming, SQL is a support tool at best. Tbh your cavalier attitude towards a fundamental aspect of computer science shows your naivety. --- "Never argue with an idiot, they drag you down to their level, then beat you with experience." <cite>IllegalAlien posted [p:898540127] in Ceman in p... [t:76455326]...</cite> <quote><cite>s0nicfan posted...</cite> <quote><cite>IllegalAlien posted...</cite> <quote>Are you still in school? DBMS is a relatively boring subject when you take it, but in the real world RDBMS ecosystem you'll be very glad you understand SQL. Also Data Science positions tend to require strong SQL as well.</quote> I don't know why so many people don't bother reading topics, but as I've said multiple times now I'm aware that SQL has its uses, but the TC is looking for a programming job, now a DBM or data analyst job. Within the realm of programming, SQL is a support tool at best.</quote> Tbh your cavalier attitude towards a fundamental aspect of computer science shows your naivety.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Tyranthraxus 03/26/18 6:13:49 PM #46:	s0nicfan posted... SQL is a support tool at best. If your application uses a database it's required for development. End of story. Even if you're using some dumbass shit like Entity Framework you still need to create the database infrastructure first with queries. --- https://puu.sh/tcLsT/24f4611235.png https://i.imgur.com/dQgC4kv.jpg <cite>Tyranthraxus posted [p:898540142] in Ceman in p... [t:76455326]...</cite> <quote><cite>s0nicfan posted...</cite> <quote>SQL is a support tool at best.</quote> If your application uses a database it's required for development. End of story. Even if you're using some dumbass shit like Entity Framework you still need to create the database infrastructure first with queries.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
REMercsChamp 03/26/18 6:15:06 PM #47:	I'm getting the feeling sonicfan is a front end developer and thinks SQL is just writing simple select statements to query a database. --- https://i.imgur.com/lwkIVOb.png <cite>REMercsChamp posted [p:898540219] in Ceman in p... [t:76455326]...</cite> <quote>I'm getting the feeling sonicfan is a front end developer and thinks SQL is just writing simple select statements to query a database.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
JBaLLEN66 03/27/18 5:52:13 PM #48:	bump, idk what to do. Should I just bs my resume? I'm now interested in programming. --- Him being greedy is a good thing. That means he'll want to spend less and help us get out of this debt. Gamefreak36 <cite>JBaLLEN66 posted [p:898600649] in Ceman in p... [t:76455326]...</cite> <quote>bump, idk what to do. Should I just bs my resume? I'm now interested in programming.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
1337toothbrush 03/27/18 5:57:10 PM #49:	Take one day to go through this tutorial and tell me what you think: https://tour.golang.org/welcome/1 --- :D https://imgur.com/a/FU9H8 <cite>1337toothbrush posted [p:898600916] in Ceman in p... [t:76455326]...</cite> <quote>Take one day to go through this tutorial and tell me what you think: https://tour.golang.org/welcome/1</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
EnragedSlith 03/27/18 6:00:03 PM #50:	Actually at this point myself. Have about 8 months in a dev environment doing fullstack, but the company went down the drain. Picked up about 200 hours of education on udemy for about $50 to cover my bases and fill in gaps and help put something remotely substantive on a resume because all Ive got is an associates. That said, programming has been a hobby of mine since I was a kid, so that routes ok for me --- ultimate milf hunter https://i.imgur.com/lCEdce6.gifv https://i.imgur.com/2N1Ezia.gifv https://i.imgur.com/ukJ6sPJ.jpg https://youtu.be/IDYaHvDiTr4 <cite>EnragedSlith posted [p:898601093] in Ceman in p... [t:76455326]...</cite> <quote>Actually at this point myself. Have about 8 months in a dev environment doing fullstack, but the company went down the drain. Picked up about 200 hours of education on udemy for about $50 to cover my bases and fill in gaps and help put something remotely substantive on a resume because all Ive got is an associates. That said, programming has been a hobby of mine since I was a kid, so that routes ok for me</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
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Current Events > Ceman in programming, how do I get an entry level programming job