Current Events > How is MGTOW a bad thing?

(+) Yeah! (+)

If a guy wants to swear off women in order to learn self-value why is that considered bad?

I'm not talking about the angry and sore boys who feel like it's some sort of defiance to the female race, but rather the men who either think "Bro I suck at women, I'mma focus on something cool like learning guitar" or "I actually like being able to control my life without running it past someone else".

I find the hostility towards it odd. How is that mindset misogynistic?
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I mean I'm sure no women are missing out on their company

It's when they feel entitled to harm others like shoot people that it's bad
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IWBYD posted...

If a guy wants to swear off women in order to learn self-value why is that considered bad?

this is fine but the problem is, as soon as you equate this with an entire community that is known as mgtow it becomes poisoned.
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The issue with MGTOW is that they focus all their energy complaining on why relationships with women suck instead of enjoying their lives.
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Doctor Foxx posted...

I mean I'm sure no women are missing out on their company

It's when they feel entitled to harm others like shoot people that it's bad

I'm not talking about misogynists. I'm referring to guys who decide to focus on themselves rather than pursuing relationships or marriage. I realize now that the MGTOW movement actually suffers from misogynistic elements that overshadow those concepts of improving self-value.

How would you feel about a movement that didn't have toxicity ideas of females and focused on male self-improvement. I feel like alot of these misogynistic manchildren just suffer from a lack of self-worth.
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IWBYD posted...

why is that considered bad?

IWBYD posted...

I realize now that the MGTOW movement actually suffers from misogynistic elements that overshadow those concepts of improving self-value.

You answered yourself

IWBYD posted...

How would you feel about a movement that didn't have toxicity ideas of females and focused on male self-improvement. I feel like alot of these misogynistic manchildren just suffer from a lack of self-worth.

That's fine but why just men? When you get a bunch of bitter men that really want to get laid it gets misogynistic. They're so wrong with taking time off from dating for self improvement. I've done that. MGTOW as a concept and in execution is a misogynistic shit heap
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Doctor Foxx posted...

That's fine but why just men? When you get a bunch of bitter men that really want to get laid it gets misogynistic. They're so wrong with taking time off from dating for self improvement. I've done that. MGTOW as a concept and in execution is a misogynistic shit heap

but if they're not actually interacting with women then why care about that?
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Fuck off.
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hyperpsycho posted...

Fuck off.

No u.
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WizardPowers posted...

but if they're not actually interacting with women then why care about that?

What? Are they not members of society? Women are more than half of the population. You have to interact with them.
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It's a great male support group for self empowerment in a changing world
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Doctor Foxx posted...

IWBYD posted...

why is that considered bad?

IWBYD posted...

I realize now that the MGTOW movement actually suffers from misogynistic elements that overshadow those concepts of improving self-value.

You answered yourself

IWBYD posted...

How would you feel about a movement that didn't have toxicity ideas of females and focused on male self-improvement. I feel like alot of these misogynistic manchildren just suffer from a lack of self-worth.

That's fine but why just men? When you get a bunch of bitter men that really want to get laid it gets misogynistic. They're so wrong with taking time off from dating for self improvement. I've done that. MGTOW as a concept and in execution is a misogynistic shit heap

It seems like many "Male movements" online tend to be taken over by misogynists, read bullies, who exploit the vulnerable "beta males" and warp their worldview into the shit you see online constantly.

I hate that

There's nothing wrong with a man gaining new respect for himself. Women do it all the time and are in fact encouraged to do so. Why aren't men given that same respect for solitary self-improvement? Because if they choose that path their considered "strange" by both sexes.
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There is no label for that. Hypothetically there is nothing wrong with it if the separation/inner focus is truly based on a desire for self improvement and not based on any stereotypes of women or ill feelings towards them. People of both sexes do that all the time. The label MGTOW and the people who self identify under that label are largely incredibly toxic human beings though.
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You know feminism supports men improving themselves regardless of expectations due to gender, and without that toxic masculinity. just saying
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Doctor Foxx posted...

WizardPowers posted...

but if they're not actually interacting with women then why care about that?

What? Are they not members of society? Women are more than half of the population. You have to interact with them.

I meant like prolonged interaction like a relationship. You think they're just going up to cashiers, or female workers and harassing them or something? Especially if you work in a male-dominated office space, it would be pretty easy to avoid interacting with women for the most part.
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legendary_zell posted...

There is no label for that. Hypothetically there is nothing wrong with it the separation/inner focus is truly based on a desire for self improvement and not based on any stereotypes of women or ill feelings towards them. People of both sexes do that all the time. The label MGTOW and the people who self identify under that label are largely incredibly toxic human beings though.

And that. It's self improvement. There's nothing wrong with any person doing that.
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WizardPowers posted...

Doctor Foxx posted...

WizardPowers posted...

but if they're not actually interacting with women then why care about that?

What? Are they not members of society? Women are more than half of the population. You have to interact with them.

I meant like prolonged interaction like a relationship. You think they're just going up to cashiers, or female workers and harassing them or something?

I think it colors their interactions to a degree
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Doctor Foxx posted...

WizardPowers posted...

Doctor Foxx posted...

WizardPowers posted...

but if they're not actually interacting with women then why care about that?

What? Are they not members of society? Women are more than half of the population. You have to interact with them.

I meant like prolonged interaction like a relationship. You think they're just going up to cashiers, or female workers and harassing them or something?

I think it colors their interactions to a degree

probably. But I doubt many of them have platonic female friends so if that's true then it would be pretty easy to avoid most interactions with women unless you work directly with a lot of them.
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Doctor Foxx posted...

You know feminism supports men improving themselves regardless of expectations due to gender, and without that toxic masculinity. just saying

I'm more referring to the idea that a man doesn't have to be a slave to the "Boyfriend/Husband/Father" dynamic in order to live a fufilling life. Far too often are men broadcasted that they must conform to those roles in order to feel "complete" or live a rewarding life. Men who reject that dynamic appear to be either shunned or viewed with suspicion.

So I'm saying what is wrong with men who decide to opt out from intimate relationships with women in order to improve their self-worth? I'm not talking about men shunning women all together. That isn't healthy.
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IWBYD posted...

Doctor Foxx posted...

You know feminism supports men improving themselves regardless of expectations due to gender, and without that toxic masculinity. just saying

I'm more referring to the idea that a man doesn't have to be a slave to the "Boyfriend/Husband/Father" dynamic in order to live a fufilling life. Far too often are men broadcasted that they must conform to those roles in order to feel "complete" or live a rewarding life. Men to reject that dynamic appear to be either shunned or viewed with suspicion.

So I'm saying what is wrong with men who decide to opt out from intimate relationships with women in order to improve their self-worth? I'm not talking about men shunning women all together. That isn't healthy.

If you don't want to get into a relationship, that's fine. You don't need to be part of a group for that. The issue comes when you associate yourself with a group whose identity is bitching about women.
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WizardPowers posted...

Doctor Foxx posted...

WizardPowers posted...

Doctor Foxx posted...

WizardPowers posted...

but if they're not actually interacting with women then why care about that?

What? Are they not members of society? Women are more than half of the population. You have to interact with them.

I meant like prolonged interaction like a relationship. You think they're just going up to cashiers, or female workers and harassing them or something?

I think it colors their interactions to a degree

probably. But I doubt many of them have platonic female friends so if that's true then it would be pretty easy to avoid most interactions with women unless you work directly with a lot of them.

what a sad life to cut yourself off from half of humanity. And to suffer a host of issues for it. It is unhealthy and people snap.

IWBYD posted...

Doctor Foxx posted...

You know feminism supports men improving themselves regardless of expectations due to gender, and without that toxic masculinity. just saying

I'm more referring to the idea that a man doesn't have to be a slave to the "Boyfriend/Husband/Father" dynamic in order to live a fufilling life. Far too often are men broadcasted that they must conform to those roles in order to feel "complete" or live a rewarding life. Men who reject that dynamic appear to be either shunned or viewed with suspicion.

So I'm saying what is wrong with men who decide to opt out from intimate relationships with women in order to improve their self-worth? I'm not talking about men shunning women all together. That isn't healthy.

there's nothing wrong with that... you understand there are people that don't have relationships or date anyway? Aromantic asexuals

Just keep away from the MGTOW
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Tmaster148 posted...

IWBYD posted...

Doctor Foxx posted...

You know feminism supports men improving themselves regardless of expectations due to gender, and without that toxic masculinity. just saying

I'm more referring to the idea that a man doesn't have to be a slave to the "Boyfriend/Husband/Father" dynamic in order to live a fufilling life. Far too often are men broadcasted that they must conform to those roles in order to feel "complete" or live a rewarding life. Men to reject that dynamic appear to be either shunned or viewed with suspicion.

So I'm saying what is wrong with men who decide to opt out from intimate relationships with women in order to improve their self-worth? I'm not talking about men shunning women all together. That isn't healthy.

If you don't want to get into a relationship, that's fine. You don't need to be part of a group for that. The issue comes when you associate yourself with a group whose identity is bitching about women.

So what about a fellowship of men that actively rejected misogyny while at the same time functioning as a male self-help group.

The issue appears to be the idea of toxic attitudes towards women forming which isn't a fair assessment since there are many female dominated self help groups that don't fall prey to misandry.
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Tmaster148 posted...

IWBYD posted...

Doctor Foxx posted...

You know feminism supports men improving themselves regardless of expectations due to gender, and without that toxic masculinity. just saying

I'm more referring to the idea that a man doesn't have to be a slave to the "Boyfriend/Husband/Father" dynamic in order to live a fufilling life. Far too often are men broadcasted that they must conform to those roles in order to feel "complete" or live a rewarding life. Men to reject that dynamic appear to be either shunned or viewed with suspicion.

So I'm saying what is wrong with men who decide to opt out from intimate relationships with women in order to improve their self-worth? I'm not talking about men shunning women all together. That isn't healthy.

If you don't want to get into a relationship, that's fine. You don't need to be part of a group for that. The issue comes when you associate yourself with a group whose identity is bitching about women.

Why? Feminists do it all the time except they bitch about men.
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_Goggalor_ posted...

Tmaster148 posted...

IWBYD posted...

Doctor Foxx posted...

You know feminism supports men improving themselves regardless of expectations due to gender, and without that toxic masculinity. just saying

I'm more referring to the idea that a man doesn't have to be a slave to the "Boyfriend/Husband/Father" dynamic in order to live a fufilling life. Far too often are men broadcasted that they must conform to those roles in order to feel "complete" or live a rewarding life. Men to reject that dynamic appear to be either shunned or viewed with suspicion.

So I'm saying what is wrong with men who decide to opt out from intimate relationships with women in order to improve their self-worth? I'm not talking about men shunning women all together. That isn't healthy.

If you don't want to get into a relationship, that's fine. You don't need to be part of a group for that. The issue comes when you associate yourself with a group whose identity is bitching about women.

Why? Feminists do it all the time except they bitch about men.

no they don't try harder
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Doctor Foxx posted...

no they don't

lmao
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_Goggalor_ posted...

Tmaster148 posted...

IWBYD posted...

Doctor Foxx posted...

You know feminism supports men improving themselves regardless of expectations due to gender, and without that toxic masculinity. just saying

I'm more referring to the idea that a man doesn't have to be a slave to the "Boyfriend/Husband/Father" dynamic in order to live a fufilling life. Far too often are men broadcasted that they must conform to those roles in order to feel "complete" or live a rewarding life. Men to reject that dynamic appear to be either shunned or viewed with suspicion.

So I'm saying what is wrong with men who decide to opt out from intimate relationships with women in order to improve their self-worth? I'm not talking about men shunning women all together. That isn't healthy.

If you don't want to get into a relationship, that's fine. You don't need to be part of a group for that. The issue comes when you associate yourself with a group whose identity is bitching about women.

Why? Feminists do it all the time except they bitch about men.

Then don't associate with feminist? I'm not seeing the issue you are trying to bring up.
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IWBYD posted...

Tmaster148 posted...

IWBYD posted...

Doctor Foxx posted...

You know feminism supports men improving themselves regardless of expectations due to gender, and without that toxic masculinity. just saying

I'm more referring to the idea that a man doesn't have to be a slave to the "Boyfriend/Husband/Father" dynamic in order to live a fufilling life. Far too often are men broadcasted that they must conform to those roles in order to feel "complete" or live a rewarding life. Men to reject that dynamic appear to be either shunned or viewed with suspicion.

So I'm saying what is wrong with men who decide to opt out from intimate relationships with women in order to improve their self-worth? I'm not talking about men shunning women all together. That isn't healthy.

If you don't want to get into a relationship, that's fine. You don't need to be part of a group for that. The issue comes when you associate yourself with a group whose identity is bitching about women.

So what about a fellowship of men that actively rejected misogyny while at the same time functioning as a male self-help group.

The issue appears to be the idea of toxic attitudes towards women forming which isn't a fair assessment since there are many female dominated self help groups that don't fall prey to misandry.

When that fellowship hinges on excluding yourself from contact with a huge number of people, or feeling like people are beneath you, it is just toxic

The common link seems to be men leading toxic groups...
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how is it any different than being a normal loser that's never been in a relationship or that doesn't have female friends?

Doctor Foxx posted...

IWBYD posted...

Tmaster148 posted...

IWBYD posted...

Doctor Foxx posted...

You know feminism supports men improving themselves regardless of expectations due to gender, and without that toxic masculinity. just saying

I'm more referring to the idea that a man doesn't have to be a slave to the "Boyfriend/Husband/Father" dynamic in order to live a fufilling life. Far too often are men broadcasted that they must conform to those roles in order to feel "complete" or live a rewarding life. Men to reject that dynamic appear to be either shunned or viewed with suspicion.

So I'm saying what is wrong with men who decide to opt out from intimate relationships with women in order to improve their self-worth? I'm not talking about men shunning women all together. That isn't healthy.

If you don't want to get into a relationship, that's fine. You don't need to be part of a group for that. The issue comes when you associate yourself with a group whose identity is bitching about women.

So what about a fellowship of men that actively rejected misogyny while at the same time functioning as a male self-help group.

The issue appears to be the idea of toxic attitudes towards women forming which isn't a fair assessment since there are many female dominated self help groups that don't fall prey to misandry.

When that fellowship hinges on excluding yourself from contact with a huge number of people, or feeling like people are beneath you, it is just toxic

The common link seems to be men leading toxic groups...

You keep assuming male exclusive/dominated spaces are more susceptible to toxicity than female exclusive/dominated ones. Why do you think that?
And why are you hostile to the idea of there being a male dominated fellowship that rebukes the concepts I stated above?

You seem to think a female perspective is integral to male self worth. Or rather I hope I'm putting words in your mouth and I'm simply wrong.
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It is not. It is the best thing for men actually.
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IWBYD posted...

You seem to think a female perspective is integral to male self worth. Or rather I hope I'm putting words in your mouth and I'm simply wrong.

Not at all. But treating women and men as your fellow human beings is integral to being a decent person and MGTOW puts women into some other category
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I don't really have much knowledge of it, a brief reading about it on Wikipedia makes it sound like it has good intentions but kind of devolves into toxicity. Probably the best point of my life was when I swore off women for a bit and focused on myself, but I didn't do that out of hate for women and instead realized the one factor in my failed relationships was myself. Yeah, there's a lot of shitty women out there, but part of gaining confidence in yourself is shaking off the bad people and keeping the good people you find. I had a horrible ex, I realized that and broke up with her and I didn't retreat away and swear off relationships forever, my next girlfriend was incredible and we've had a great relationship for the past 5 years. This sounds like a movement of guys who fail and retreat instead of failing and using that to progress.

Doctor Foxx posted...

IWBYD posted...

You seem to think a female perspective is integral to male self worth. Or rather I hope I'm putting words in your mouth and I'm simply wrong.

Not at all. But treating women and men as your fellow human beings is integral to being a decent person and MGTOW puts women into some other category

At this point I agree that MGTOW is toxic. I trying to say is Why do you believe male spaces eventually descend into toxicity? If you do then do you also believe the same about female spaces?

dolomedes posted...

IWBYD posted...

"Bro I suck at women, I'mma focus on something cool like learning guitar" or "I actually like being able to control my life without running it past someone else".

lmao you really don't see why people would have an issue with ideas like these?

i guess if the only woman you've ever interacted with is your overbearing mother, it makes sense, but..

"suck at women" ffs

Nah bro I'm terrible at that shit so I threw in the towel. I don't hate women or think any kind of negativity, I'm just shitty at being intimate with em that's all. Why does that bother you? That I gave up decided to invest in myself? I don't think I'm superior for that. In fact I view myself as lesser due to my failure.
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It's not a bad thing but SJW whiny bitches are really loud about hating it.
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IWBYD posted...

At this point I agree that MGTOW is toxic. I trying to say is Why do you believe male spaces eventually descend into toxicity? If you do then do you also believe the same about female spaces?

I don't believe that male-dominated spaces eventually descend into toxicity. I believe that MGTOW is toxic, and that any groups focused on treating certain populations as "other" are toxic. These groups are typically led by men and exclude people based on gender or race.
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Doctor Foxx posted...

IWBYD posted...

At this point I agree that MGTOW is toxic. I trying to say is Why do you believe male spaces eventually descend into toxicity? If you do then do you also believe the same about female spaces?

I don't believe that male-dominated spaces eventually descend into toxicity. I believe that MGTOW is toxic, and that any groups focused on treating certain populations as "other" are toxic. These groups are typically led by men and exclude people based on gender or race.

I see your point now.

Dafuq? Did we just part ways amicably on the internet?
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Also, you do know that most MGTOW are successful men? Like you guys are looking silly by the minutes on the boards.
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dolomedes posted...

IWBYD posted...

Nah bro I'm terrible at that shit so I threw in the towel. I don't hate women or think any kind of negativity, I'm just shitty at being intimate with em that's all. Why does that bother you? That I gave up decided to invest in myself? I don't think I'm superior for that. In fact I view myself as lesser due to my failure.

you really don't see the issue in equating women to hobbies? as if you can't better yourself while simultaneously being in a relationship? you have to 'give up'... being open to intimacy?

i don't really understand, i guess. i mean, i've never been one to actively pursue relationships so i don't really get that. most of the positive changes i've made in my life, i was able to share with a partner.

have you given intimacy with fellow men a chance?

I never equated women to hobbies. That's weird bro. Nah I was saying the energy I put into intimate pursuits it's better served on hobbies or pursuits of self worth.
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Sorry bro not looking for an advice column.

I honestly don't benefit from relationships
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dolomedes posted...

hmmm, i wonder why you 'suck at women'

lmao

(if you don't benefit from relationships, you're in relationships with the wrong people ftr)

Thank you random CEman. You should write an advice column.
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I always laugh at those beta cucks being pushed around by their woman by telling them what needs to be done today and what she thinks money should be spent on. Single people dont need to deal with that kind of bullshit.

Doctor Foxx posted...

You know feminism supports men improving themselves regardless of expectations due to gender, and without that toxic masculinity. just saying

Lmao, yeah, maybe on paper.
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The concept in and of itself is not a bad thing. It's how the vast majority of people who idenitfy with that term act, that's the problem.
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