Current Events > Super Smash Bros.

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sLaCkEr408___RJ 03/10/18 1:05:09 PM #101:	Blbmbr666 posted... Besides that, it's still a better balanced game than Sm4sh. Check top 8 character representation vs the total cast count. SSBM is my favorite game of all time, but you have no idea what you're talking about. <cite>sLaCkEr408___RJ posted [p:897538434] in Super Smas... [t:76395527]...</cite> <quote><cite>Blbmbr666 posted...</cite> <quote>Besides that, it's still a better balanced game than Sm4sh. Check top 8 character representation vs the total cast count.</quote> SSBM is my favorite game of all time, but you have no idea what you're talking about.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
TheGrindery 03/10/18 1:16:54 PM #102:	Blbmbr666 posted... _Near_ posted... While Melee requires more skill and it's more competitive, it relies on exploits which were not balanced in the first place. From a gameplay stand point, Smash 4 is a better fighting game because the mechanics used to play it both competitively and casually are balanced. Smash 4 is definitely the better casual game, as well, given the fact that it dispenses with a lot of useless punishing tactics like a single air dodge or ledge hogging. Furthermore, it has way more characters (including third party characters) and the ability to stuff in 8 players in a single match. And it's way easier to be good at Smash 4 than it is to be good at Melee. It's funny to say this, when the 'exploits' you talk about are actually hard as fuck to execute well enough to be a high level player. Besides that, it's still a better balanced game than Sm4sh. Check top 8 character representation vs the total cast count. I tried them and failed. I guess I just don't care enough to get it down. I'm okay with those but I hate Mario Kart players who use snaking. <cite>TheGrindery posted [p:897539066] in Super Smas... [t:76395527]...</cite> <quote><cite>Blbmbr666 posted...</cite> <quote><cite>_Near_ posted...</cite> <quote>While Melee requires more skill and it's more competitive, it relies on exploits which were not balanced in the first place. From a gameplay stand point, Smash 4 is a better fighting game because the mechanics used to play it both competitively and casually are balanced. Smash 4 is definitely the better casual game, as well, given the fact that it dispenses with a lot of useless punishing tactics like a single air dodge or ledge hogging. Furthermore, it has way more characters (including third party characters) and the ability to stuff in 8 players in a single match. And it's way easier to be good at Smash 4 than it is to be good at Melee.</quote> It's funny to say this, when the 'exploits' you talk about are actually hard as fuck to execute well enough to be a high level player. Besides that, it's still a better balanced game than Sm4sh. Check top 8 character representation vs the total cast count.</quote> I tried them and failed. I guess I just don't care enough to get it down. I'm okay with those but I hate Mario Kart players who use snaking.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
GeneralKenobi85 03/10/18 2:36:12 PM #103:	sLaCkEr408___RJ posted... Blbmbr666 posted... Besides that, it's still a better balanced game than Sm4sh. Check top 8 character representation vs the total cast count. SSBM is my favorite game of all time, but you have no idea what you're talking about. He actually isn't wrong. Yes, Smash 4 does have more characters that are viable. But doubles is plagued by Cloud, while Bayonetta players keep placing higher and higher in singles. In Melee, you see plenty of other characters in addition to Fox and Falco. Jigglypuff, Captain Falcon, Peach, Marth, Sheik, Samus, Ice Climbers, Pikachu, Luigi, Yoshi, and Ganondorf. Even at the highest levels of play you see most of these characters. Besides, Fox is pretty fun to watch anyway. --- Ah, yes, the Negotiator: General Kenobi <sneaky beeping> <cite>GeneralKenobi85 posted [p:897543220] in Super Smas... [t:76395527]...</cite> <quote><cite>sLaCkEr408___RJ posted...</cite> <quote><cite>Blbmbr666 posted...</cite> <quote>Besides that, it's still a better balanced game than Sm4sh. Check top 8 character representation vs the total cast count.</quote> SSBM is my favorite game of all time, but you have no idea what you're talking about.</quote> He actually isn't wrong. Yes, Smash 4 does have more characters that are viable. But doubles is plagued by Cloud, while Bayonetta players keep placing higher and higher in singles. In Melee, you see plenty of other characters in addition to Fox and Falco. Jigglypuff, Captain Falcon, Peach, Marth, Sheik, Samus, Ice Climbers, Pikachu, Luigi, Yoshi, and Ganondorf. Even at the highest levels of play you see most of these characters. Besides, Fox is pretty fun to watch anyway.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
sLaCkEr408___RJ 03/10/18 4:03:13 PM #104:	That's just tier riding right now. SSB4 lacks the time and the population to find all the best strats. SSBM Jig, Ganon, Yoshi were all considered low tier for a decade. <cite>sLaCkEr408___RJ posted [p:897547866] in Super Smas... [t:76395527]...</cite> <quote>That's just tier riding right now. SSB4 lacks the time and the population to find all the best strats. SSBM Jig, Ganon, Yoshi were all considered low tier for a decade.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Delirious_Beard 03/10/18 11:09:57 PM #105:	_Near_ posted... Delirious_Beard posted... enjoy your meta of zero edgeguarding lmao if you think that there's no edguarding if you take out ledgehogging it always amazes me how melee purists hold on to bad game design because they think it makes the game more complex. i don't think people realize how much goes on at the edge in melee people just assume you just hang on the ledge and put your controller down when that is about as far from the case as possible, a lot of that is managing invincibility and with the removal of ledge stalling refreshing invincibility the issue is partly already fixed, what sakurai did is just overkill being offstage is supposed to be a disadvantage, in smash 4 it barely is one and yes, there is certainly less edgeguarding in smash 4 as well. look up as many top matches as you want and you'll be able to count the number of times people die to the bottom blast zone. some characters (think mario and marth) get back to the stage absolutely for free just by recovering low and having high angle up B's that autosnap to ledge basically making them nonpunishable why do you think the game runs at 2 stocks? even brawl ran a 3 stock ruleset and it basically forced players to edgeguard because of momentum cancelling making it take forever to kill by other means --- http://i.imgur.com/5UL2v5u.gif "Does our ruin benefit the earth? Does it help the grass to grow, the sun to shine? Is this darkness in you, too?" <cite>Delirious_Beard posted [p:897569547] in Super Smas... [t:76395527]...</cite> <quote><cite>_Near_ posted...</cite> <quote><cite>Delirious_Beard posted...</cite> <quote> enjoy your meta of zero edgeguarding</quote> lmao if you think that there's no edguarding if you take out ledgehogging it always amazes me how melee purists hold on to bad game design because they think it makes the game more complex.</quote> i don't think people realize how much goes on at the edge in melee people just assume you just hang on the ledge and put your controller down when that is about as far from the case as possible, a lot of that is managing invincibility and with the removal of ledge stalling refreshing invincibility the issue is partly already fixed, what sakurai did is just overkill being offstage is supposed to be a disadvantage, in smash 4 it barely is one and yes, there is certainly less edgeguarding in smash 4 as well. look up as many top matches as you want and you'll be able to count the number of times people die to the bottom blast zone. some characters (think mario and marth) get back to the stage absolutely for free just by recovering low and having high angle up B's that autosnap to ledge basically making them nonpunishable why do you think the game runs at 2 stocks? even brawl ran a 3 stock ruleset and it basically forced players to edgeguard because of momentum cancelling making it take forever to kill by other means</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Tyranthraxus 03/10/18 11:29:38 PM #106:	Delirious_Beard posted... _Near_ posted... Delirious_Beard posted... enjoy your meta of zero edgeguarding lmao if you think that there's no edguarding if you take out ledgehogging it always amazes me how melee purists hold on to bad game design because they think it makes the game more complex. i don't think people realize how much goes on at the edge in melee people just assume you just hang on the ledge and put your controller down when that is about as far from the case as possible, a lot of that is managing invincibility and with the removal of ledge stalling refreshing invincibility the issue is partly already fixed, what sakurai did is just overkill being offstage is supposed to be a disadvantage, in smash 4 it barely is one and yes, there is certainly less edgeguarding in smash 4 as well. look up as many top matches as you want and you'll be able to count the number of times people die to the bottom blast zone. some characters (think mario and marth) get back to the stage absolutely for free just by recovering low and having high angle up B's that autosnap to ledge basically making them nonpunishable why do you think the game runs at 2 stocks? even brawl ran a 3 stock ruleset and it basically forced players to edgeguard because of momentum cancelling making it take forever to kill by other means Brawl has gutter tier physics and shouldn't be used as an argument for anything. Edgeguarding in Smash 4 meta shifted towards landing more meteor smash type moves as you can see with things like sheik and zss new moves. It's much harder to land these moves safely than it is to edgehog with iframes while the opponent falls down like a moron. --- https://puu.sh/tcLsT/24f4611235.png https://i.imgur.com/dQgC4kv.jpg <cite>Tyranthraxus posted [p:897570444] in Super Smas... [t:76395527]...</cite> <quote><cite>Delirious_Beard posted...</cite> <quote><cite>_Near_ posted...</cite> <quote><cite>Delirious_Beard posted...</cite> <quote> enjoy your meta of zero edgeguarding</quote> lmao if you think that there's no edguarding if you take out ledgehogging it always amazes me how melee purists hold on to bad game design because they think it makes the game more complex.</quote> i don't think people realize how much goes on at the edge in melee people just assume you just hang on the ledge and put your controller down when that is about as far from the case as possible, a lot of that is managing invincibility and with the removal of ledge stalling refreshing invincibility the issue is partly already fixed, what sakurai did is just overkill being offstage is supposed to be a disadvantage, in smash 4 it barely is one and yes, there is certainly less edgeguarding in smash 4 as well. look up as many top matches as you want and you'll be able to count the number of times people die to the bottom blast zone. some characters (think mario and marth) get back to the stage absolutely for free just by recovering low and having high angle up B's that autosnap to ledge basically making them nonpunishable why do you think the game runs at 2 stocks? even brawl ran a 3 stock ruleset and it basically forced players to edgeguard because of momentum cancelling making it take forever to kill by other means</quote> Brawl has gutter tier physics and shouldn't be used as an argument for anything. Edgeguarding in Smash 4 meta shifted towards landing more meteor smash type moves as you can see with things like sheik and zss new moves. It's much harder to land these moves safely than it is to edgehog with iframes while the opponent falls down like a moron.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Delirious_Beard 03/10/18 11:40:26 PM #107:	if you save your jump in melee you usually have plenty of options to get back onstage, as it forces your opponent to pick either the ledge or the stage it is only when you make poor use of your double jump or are forced to use it to even get back to the stage that you are really screwed, and frankly if you're hit that far offstage you deserve to be at a severe disadvantage in smash 4 the recoveries are fucking ridiculous and the falling speeds allow most characters to be able to recover low even without their double jump, which means they can also keep their double jump from farther away, leading to more mix-ups in recovering. then you have even further options like tether recoveries, magnet hands (the absurd leeway players are given when grabbing the ledge even when they are nowhere near it) and uppercut recoveries like marth and mario where the edgeguarder risks being stage spiked if he risks going down there to try and stuff it the ledge is by far the worst thing about smash 4 and no, the brawl comparison holds plenty of weight. smash 4 most resembles it and more importantly my argument about it being 3 stocks had a lot to do with edgeguards being at a premium in it --- http://i.imgur.com/5UL2v5u.gif "Does our ruin benefit the earth? Does it help the grass to grow, the sun to shine? Is this darkness in you, too?" <cite>Delirious_Beard posted [p:897570936] in Super Smas... [t:76395527]...</cite> <quote>if you save your jump in melee you usually have plenty of options to get back onstage, as it forces your opponent to pick either the ledge or the stage it is only when you make poor use of your double jump or are forced to use it to even get back to the stage that you are really screwed, and frankly if you're hit that far offstage you deserve to be at a severe disadvantage in smash 4 the recoveries are fucking ridiculous and the falling speeds allow most characters to be able to recover low even without their double jump, which means they can also keep their double jump from farther away, leading to more mix-ups in recovering. then you have even further options like tether recoveries, magnet hands (the absurd leeway players are given when grabbing the ledge even when they are nowhere near it) and uppercut recoveries like marth and mario where the edgeguarder risks being stage spiked if he risks going down there to try and stuff it the ledge is by far the worst thing about smash 4 and no, the brawl comparison holds plenty of weight. smash 4 most resembles it and more importantly my argument about it being 3 stocks had a lot to do with edgeguards being at a premium in it</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Blbmbr666 03/11/18 2:03:46 AM #108:	Mist_Turnips posted... Blbmbr666 posted... Check top 8 character representation vs the total cast count. 1. Fox 2. Fox 3. Fox 4. Fox 5. Fox 6. Fox 7. Fox 8. ??? Let's just take the 2017 top 8 overall ranked players, eh? Puff main, Peach main, Fox/Falco dual main, Marth/Sheik dual main, Sheik main, Fox main, Pikachu main, Falcon main. 8 characters represented in 8 players. What more diversity do you want dude? --- Falco New World Order: http://i.imgur.com/iOYw6Ss.png http://imgur.com/dIifHyi <cite>Blbmbr666 posted [p:897574466] in Super Smas... [t:76395527]...</cite> <quote><cite>Mist_Turnips posted...</cite> <quote><cite>Blbmbr666 posted...</cite> <quote>Check top 8 character representation vs the total cast count.</quote> 1. Fox 2. Fox 3. Fox 4. Fox 5. Fox 6. Fox 7. Fox 8. ???</quote> Let's just take the 2017 top 8 overall ranked players, eh? Puff main, Peach main, Fox/Falco dual main, Marth/Sheik dual main, Sheik main, Fox main, Pikachu main, Falcon main. 8 characters represented in 8 players. What more diversity do you want dude?</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Blbmbr666 03/11/18 2:05:43 AM #109:	sLaCkEr408___RJ posted... Blbmbr666 posted... Besides that, it's still a better balanced game than Sm4sh. Check top 8 character representation vs the total cast count. SSBM is my favorite game of all time, but you have no idea what you're talking about. Except I do, but iight enjoy a community that actually is trying to ban one character because it wins too much. And another one because it dominates doubles. --- Falco New World Order: http://i.imgur.com/iOYw6Ss.png http://imgur.com/dIifHyi <cite>Blbmbr666 posted [p:897574539] in Super Smas... [t:76395527]...</cite> <quote><cite>sLaCkEr408___RJ posted...</cite> <quote><cite>Blbmbr666 posted...</cite> <quote>Besides that, it's still a better balanced game than Sm4sh. Check top 8 character representation vs the total cast count.</quote> SSBM is my favorite game of all time, but you have no idea what you're talking about.</quote> Except I do, but iight enjoy a community that actually is trying to ban one character because it wins too much. And another one because it dominates doubles.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
sLaCkEr408___RJ 03/11/18 12:44:17 PM #110:	Blbmbr666 posted... sLaCkEr408___RJ posted... Blbmbr666 posted... Besides that, it's still a better balanced game than Sm4sh. Check top 8 character representation vs the total cast count. SSBM is my favorite game of all time, but you have no idea what you're talking about. Except I do, but iight enjoy a community that actually is trying to ban one character because it wins too much. And another one because it dominates doubles. Top tiers are nothing new. Not saying it's fair, but these two outliers do not mean that SSB4 is less balanced than SSBM. <cite>sLaCkEr408___RJ posted [p:897591483] in Super Smas... [t:76395527]...</cite> <quote><cite>Blbmbr666 posted...</cite> <quote><cite>sLaCkEr408___RJ posted...</cite> <quote><cite>Blbmbr666 posted...</cite> <quote>Besides that, it's still a better balanced game than Sm4sh. Check top 8 character representation vs the total cast count.</quote> SSBM is my favorite game of all time, but you have no idea what you're talking about.</quote> Except I do, but iight enjoy a community that actually is trying to ban one character because it wins too much. And another one because it dominates doubles.</quote> Top tiers are nothing new. Not saying it's fair, but these two outliers do not mean that SSB4 is less balanced than SSBM.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
#111	Post #111 was unavailable or deleted.
GeneralKenobi85 03/11/18 12:59:46 PM #112:	Godnorgosh posted... Smash 64: -best combos/punish game -best physics and mechanics -just the best And Board the Platforms. --- Ah, yes, the Negotiator: General Kenobi <sneaky beeping> <cite>GeneralKenobi85 posted [p:897592263] in Super Smas... [t:76395527]...</cite> <quote><cite>Godnorgosh posted...</cite> <quote>Smash 64: -best combos/punish game -best physics and mechanics -just the best</quote> And Board the Platforms.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Blbmbr666 03/11/18 2:19:31 PM #113:	sLaCkEr408___RJ posted... Blbmbr666 posted... sLaCkEr408___RJ posted... Blbmbr666 posted... Besides that, it's still a better balanced game than Sm4sh. Check top 8 character representation vs the total cast count. SSBM is my favorite game of all time, but you have no idea what you're talking about. Except I do, but iight enjoy a community that actually is trying to ban one character because it wins too much. And another one because it dominates doubles. Top tiers are nothing new. Not saying it's fair, but these two outliers do not mean that SSB4 is less balanced than SSBM. Ok but nobody in SSBM is trying to ban top tiers for winning too much. Do you not understand the difference here? --- Falco New World Order: http://i.imgur.com/iOYw6Ss.png http://imgur.com/dIifHyi <cite>Blbmbr666 posted [p:897596557] in Super Smas... [t:76395527]...</cite> <quote><cite>sLaCkEr408___RJ posted...</cite> <quote><cite>Blbmbr666 posted...</cite> <quote><cite>sLaCkEr408___RJ posted...</cite> <quote><cite>Blbmbr666 posted...</cite> <quote>Besides that, it's still a better balanced game than Sm4sh. Check top 8 character representation vs the total cast count.</quote> SSBM is my favorite game of all time, but you have no idea what you're talking about.</quote> Except I do, but iight enjoy a community that actually is trying to ban one character because it wins too much. And another one because it dominates doubles.</quote> Top tiers are nothing new. Not saying it's fair, but these two outliers do not mean that SSB4 is less balanced than SSBM.</quote> Ok but nobody in SSBM is trying to ban top tiers for winning too much. Do you not understand the difference here?</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
sLaCkEr408___RJ 03/11/18 2:25:41 PM #115:	Blbmbr666 posted... sLaCkEr408___RJ posted... Blbmbr666 posted... sLaCkEr408___RJ posted... Blbmbr666 posted... Besides that, it's still a better balanced game than Sm4sh. Check top 8 character representation vs the total cast count. SSBM is my favorite game of all time, but you have no idea what you're talking about. Except I do, but iight enjoy a community that actually is trying to ban one character because it wins too much. And another one because it dominates doubles. Top tiers are nothing new. Not saying it's fair, but these two outliers do not mean that SSB4 is less balanced than SSBM. Ok but nobody in SSBM is trying to ban top tiers for winning too much. Do you not understand the difference here? The difference between what and what exactly? Because my understanding is based on your initial claim that SSBM is better balanced than SSB4. <cite>sLaCkEr408___RJ posted [p:897596887] in Super Smas... [t:76395527]...</cite> <quote><cite>Blbmbr666 posted...</cite> <quote><cite>sLaCkEr408___RJ posted...</cite> <quote><cite>Blbmbr666 posted...</cite> <quote><cite>sLaCkEr408___RJ posted...</cite> <quote><cite>Blbmbr666 posted...</cite> <quote>Besides that, it's still a better balanced game than Sm4sh. Check top 8 character representation vs the total cast count.</quote> SSBM is my favorite game of all time, but you have no idea what you're talking about.</quote> Except I do, but iight enjoy a community that actually is trying to ban one character because it wins too much. And another one because it dominates doubles.</quote> Top tiers are nothing new. Not saying it's fair, but these two outliers do not mean that SSB4 is less balanced than SSBM.</quote> Ok but nobody in SSBM is trying to ban top tiers for winning too much. Do you not understand the difference here?</quote> The difference between what and what exactly? Because my understanding is based on your initial claim that SSBM is better balanced than SSB4.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Delirious_Beard 03/12/18 12:18:19 AM #116:	smash 4 has also been patched previous games didn't have that luxury, so smash 4 really shouldn't get as much credit for being "balanced" can you imagine pre-nerf bayo in the current meta where she's already becoming the most hated character since brawl meta knight? LOL --- http://i.imgur.com/5UL2v5u.gif "Does our ruin benefit the earth? Does it help the grass to grow, the sun to shine? Is this darkness in you, too?" <cite>Delirious_Beard posted [p:897631302] in Super Smas... [t:76395527]...</cite> <quote>smash 4 has also been patched previous games didn't have that luxury, so smash 4 really shouldn't get as much credit for being "balanced" can you imagine pre-nerf bayo in the current meta where she's already becoming the most hated character since brawl meta knight? LOL</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
sLaCkEr408___RJ 03/12/18 1:23:51 PM #117:	I don't think that's fair. It's not SSB4's fault that it was released during a time patches were available. I think if anything, that's a good argument for why SSB4 is the most balanced. <cite>sLaCkEr408___RJ posted [p:897656618] in Super Smas... [t:76395527]...</cite> <quote>I don't think that's fair. It's not SSB4's fault that it was released during a time patches were available. I think if anything, that's a good argument for why SSB4 is the most balanced.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
sLaCkEr408___RJ 03/13/18 2:08:43 PM #119:	Who posted <cite>sLaCkEr408___RJ posted [p:897725715] in Super Smas... [t:76395527]...</cite> <quote>Who posted</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Delirious_Beard 03/13/18 6:35:13 PM #120:	sLaCkEr408___RJ posted... I don't think that's fair. It's not SSB4's fault that it was released during a time patches were available. I think if anything, that's a good argument for why SSB4 is the most balanced. okay, except even after all these patches bayo is still dominating the meta and killing the game --- http://i.imgur.com/5UL2v5u.gif "Does our ruin benefit the earth? Does it help the grass to grow, the sun to shine? Is this darkness in you, too?" <cite>Delirious_Beard posted [p:897741800] in Super Smas... [t:76395527]...</cite> <quote><cite>sLaCkEr408___RJ posted...</cite> <quote>I don't think that's fair. It's not SSB4's fault that it was released during a time patches were available. I think if anything, that's a good argument for why SSB4 is the most balanced.</quote> okay, except even after all these patches bayo is still dominating the meta and killing the game</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
sLaCkEr408___RJ 03/13/18 7:20:58 PM #121:	Delirious_Beard posted... sLaCkEr408___RJ posted... I don't think that's fair. It's not SSB4's fault that it was released during a time patches were available. I think if anything, that's a good argument for why SSB4 is the most balanced. okay, except even after all these patches bayo is still dominating the meta and killing the game I think Bayonetta was only around for like two patches, but yeah like I said top tiers are nothing new. Fox dominated SSBM for a decade and still does. But Jiggs, Ice Climbers, etc only ascended the tier list after time allowed talented players to discover winning strategies. I'm saying SSB4 didn't get the same chance. <cite>sLaCkEr408___RJ posted [p:897744595] in Super Smas... [t:76395527]...</cite> <quote><cite>Delirious_Beard posted...</cite> <quote><cite>sLaCkEr408___RJ posted...</cite> <quote>I don't think that's fair. It's not SSB4's fault that it was released during a time patches were available. I think if anything, that's a good argument for why SSB4 is the most balanced.</quote> okay, except even after all these patches bayo is still dominating the meta and killing the game</quote> I think Bayonetta was only around for like two patches, but yeah like I said top tiers are nothing new. Fox dominated SSBM for a decade and still does. But Jiggs, Ice Climbers, etc only ascended the tier list after time allowed talented players to discover winning strategies. I'm saying SSB4 didn't get the same chance.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Zero_Destroyer 03/14/18 5:08:10 AM #122:	Blbmbr666 posted... Besides that, it's still a better balanced game than Sm4sh. Check top 8 character representation vs the total cast count. This is incorrect. I can back this up with a lot of metrics I myself have collected over the last couple of years, but you can just do this by doing a top 100 comparison game-to-game and looking at the number of Fox players versus the number of Bayonetta players. Smash 4, Bayonetta: 9/100 Melee, Fox: 38/100 This is huge even when accounting for roster size differences. Further comparisons: https://intheloop837.wordpress.com/2017/08/24/data-a-look-at-character-diversity-between-the-5-main-smash-games/ This data does not account for a chunk of the latter half of 2017, but nothing has significantly changed in that timeframe meta-wise that would affect these numbers much. I don't think this makes one game better than the other, but actual data demonstrates a lot of cast viability in Smash 4 that extends to the majority of the cast if you go as far as upsets that have happened. --- Enjoy movies and television? Check out my blog! I do reviews and analyses. http://fictionrantreview.wordpress.com/ (The Force Awakens spoiler review up!) <cite>Zero_Destroyer posted [p:897772065] in Super Smas... [t:76395527]...</cite> <quote><cite>Blbmbr666 posted...</cite> <quote> Besides that, it's still a better balanced game than Sm4sh. Check top 8 character representation vs the total cast count.</quote> This is incorrect. I can back this up with a lot of metrics I myself have collected over the last couple of years, but you can just do this by doing a top 100 comparison game-to-game and looking at the number of Fox players versus the number of Bayonetta players. Smash 4, Bayonetta: 9/100 Melee, Fox: 38/100 This is huge even when accounting for roster size differences. Further comparisons: https://intheloop837.wordpress.com/2017/08/24/data-a-look-at-character-diversity-between-the-5-main-smash-games/ This data does not account for a chunk of the latter half of 2017, but nothing has significantly changed in that timeframe meta-wise that would affect these numbers much. I don't think this makes one game better than the other, but actual data demonstrates a lot of cast viability in Smash 4 that extends to the majority of the cast if you go as far as upsets that have happened.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Zero_Destroyer 03/14/18 5:24:14 AM #123:	Delirious_Beard posted... okay, except even after all these patches bayo is still dominating the meta and killing the game https://intheloop837.wordpress.com/2018/02/19/data-bayonetta-a-detailed-statistical-breakdown-of-smash-4s-most-controversial-character/ None of this currently holds true and the "killing the game" part (if viewership has fallen) is likely due to a large number of factors. Bayonetta would be included, but Frostbite/GENESIS data suggests that there's a lot more at play if there is a decline where banning her would do very little to "fix" the game. Blbmbr666 posted... Ok but nobody in SSBM is trying to ban top tiers for winning too much. Do you not understand the difference here? Bayonetta has won very few majors. People's qualms have to do with how frustrating she is to watch/play against. The argument is not based in data at all, rather, it's based in speculation and subjective opinion. --- Enjoy movies and television? Check out my blog! I do reviews and analyses. http://fictionrantreview.wordpress.com/ (The Force Awakens spoiler review up!) <cite>Zero_Destroyer posted [p:897772347] in Super Smas... [t:76395527]...</cite> <quote><cite>Delirious_Beard posted...</cite> <quote> okay, except even after all these patches bayo is still dominating the meta and killing the game</quote> https://intheloop837.wordpress.com/2018/02/19/data-bayonetta-a-detailed-statistical-breakdown-of-smash-4s-most-controversial-character/ None of this currently holds true and the "killing the game" part (if viewership has fallen) is likely due to a large number of factors. Bayonetta would be included, but Frostbite/GENESIS data suggests that there's a lot more at play if there is a decline where banning her would do very little to "fix" the game. <cite>Blbmbr666 posted...</cite> <quote> Ok but nobody in SSBM is trying to ban top tiers for winning too much. Do you not understand the difference here?</quote> Bayonetta has won very few majors. People's qualms have to do with how frustrating she is to watch/play against. The argument is not based in data at all, rather, it's based in speculation and subjective opinion.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Delirious_Beard 03/14/18 5:54:08 AM #124:	it's largely to do with the fact that bayo does not play by the same rules as most of the cast when it comes to risk/reward her disadvantage state and recovery are fucking absurd at least fox is an easy to combo fastfaller with a high level tech skill barrier --- http://i.imgur.com/5UL2v5u.gif "Does our ruin benefit the earth? Does it help the grass to grow, the sun to shine? Is this darkness in you, too?" <cite>Delirious_Beard posted [p:897772865] in Super Smas... [t:76395527]...</cite> <quote>it's largely to do with the fact that bayo does not play by the same rules as most of the cast when it comes to risk/reward her disadvantage state and recovery are fucking absurd at least fox is an easy to combo fastfaller with a high level tech skill barrier</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
TheGrindery 03/14/18 5:57:13 AM #125:	You guys are clearly the ones who will continue Hawking's work... <cite>TheGrindery posted [p:897772928] in Super Smas... [t:76395527]...</cite> <quote>You guys are clearly the ones who will continue Hawking's work...</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Zero_Destroyer 03/14/18 5:58:53 AM #126:	I'm totally aware of why people hate her and tbh I don't disagree. I agree fully with people who say she's frustrating to watch, at least, and her toolkit is stupid. I just don't extend it to supporting a ban since the data isn't currently pointing towards her being a huge problem for regional scenes or even necessarily national events. Smash 5 will fix this before the year is over anyway so any passion I had for the subject (i.e. that article) has mostly waned, I just wanted to correct a few misconceptions. --- Enjoy movies and television? Check out my blog! I do reviews and analyses. http://fictionrantreview.wordpress.com/ (The Force Awakens spoiler review up!) <cite>Zero_Destroyer posted [p:897772962] in Super Smas... [t:76395527]...</cite> <quote>I'm totally aware of why people hate her and tbh I don't disagree. I agree fully with people who say she's frustrating to watch, at least, and her toolkit is stupid. I just don't extend it to supporting a ban since the data isn't currently pointing towards her being a huge problem for regional scenes or even necessarily national events. Smash 5 will fix this before the year is over anyway so any passion I had for the subject (i.e. that article) has mostly waned, I just wanted to correct a few misconceptions.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
sLaCkEr408___RJ 03/15/18 4:26:34 PM #127:	Current Poll standings as of this post: SSB64: 10 SSBM: 90 SSBB: 22 SSB4: 40 <cite>sLaCkEr408___RJ posted [p:897866337] in Super Smas... [t:76395527]...</cite> <quote>Current Poll standings as of this post: SSB64: 10 SSBM: 90 SSBB: 22 SSB4: 40</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
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