Poll of the Day > What's more important to you: safety or freedom

(+) Yeah! (+)

Having more of one often means that you'll have to sacrifice the other .

In regards to government, laws, etc

You can get freedom through safety. For example, I am free from injury because of the ointment
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Freedom, as I'd be free to keep myself safe.

I don't like relying on others so I want to take responsibility for everything, not have government busybodies in my way.
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Without safety, you aren't free.

Without freedom, you aren't safe.

Both are important, end of discussion.
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faramir77 posted...

Without safety, you aren't free.

Without freedom, you aren't safe.

No.
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faramir77 posted...

Both are important, end of discussion.

Of course both are important but you can value one over the other.

I honestly wouldn't mind living in a world where there is a camera on every single corner. As long as it keeps me safe, that'd be great

faramir77 posted...

Without safety, you aren't free

I'm not following your logic here. This was not the mic drop you thought it was
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XlaxJynx007 posted...

faramir77 posted...

Without safety, you aren't free

I'm not following your logic here. This was not the mic drop you thought it was

Suppose you live in a society with absolutely no laws. You are free to do whatever you want. This means murderers and rapists have full access to their deviant behaviour, leaving no safety whatsoever.

Are you really free in that society?

Let's check the flipside. Imagine a society where there is zero risk to you being injured. Consequently, this means your movement and means of transportation are strictly controlled. You are not allowed to eat anything that would put your health at risk.

Are you really safe in that society? Maybe at first it would seem so, but by "not allowed", this implies there are consequences for deviating from the rules. You may be safe from yourself and others, but not from the governing body.

Modern society places a balance on freedom and safety. Your freedom is conditional on your ability to follow the rules the society has put in place to keep everyone safe. Your freedom and safety can be taken away if you take away the safety or freedom of others.

You are only allowed to drive a car after proving that you are capable of doing so safely. You can't possess dangerous goods without having a justification for it. You aren't allowed to consume certain drugs because of the risk to public health and safety. You can only kill if your safety is on the line.

This isn't rocket science. Freedom and safety are two sides of the same thing. In order to have one, you need to have the other.
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As computer companies, whether it's Google or OEM's, are giving me less and less choices these days, I'm starting to take my freedom much more seriously.
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I have enough self confidence to know with enough freedom I can empower myself against any external threats.

Depressed people have whats called learned helplessness and feel they are incapable of solving their problems on their own, and are willing to put themselves in codependant relationships with abusive governments that tell them everything will be good so long as you do what they say.
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Keeping and bearing arms will provide me both safety and freedom.

Taking away my arms will take away both my safety and freedom.
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As long as you can't be arrested arbitrarily, worked to death, and other basic rights like those are in place (including free health care and education), I don't really give a shit about freedom. I'd be fine with curfews, sterilization for those with preventable hereditary diseases, and mass surveillance.

There are plenty of privileges I'd give up just to see the people I hate get hauled off to a labour camp for doing things they objectively shouldn't be anyway. I realize these aren't popular opinions, so I don't expect them to be implemented. It's just how I feel.
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How about neither?

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/kansas-man-wrongfully-imprisoned-23-years-no-compensation-from-state/
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TheCyborgNinja posted...

As long as you can't be arrested arbitrarily, worked to death, and other basic rights like those are in place (including free health care and education), I don't really give a shit about freedom. I'd be fine with curfews, sterilization for those with preventable hereditary diseases, and mass surveillance.

There are plenty of privileges I'd give up just to see the people I hate get hauled off to a labour camp for doing things they objectively shouldn't be anyway. I realize these aren't popular opinions, so I don't expect them to be implemented. It's just how I feel.

Most of these are fine. But I'm not big on curfews. But that's because I love the night. It's the best time.
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TheCyborgNinja posted...

As long as you can't be arrested arbitrarily, worked to death, and other basic rights like those are in place (including free health care and education), I don't really give a shit about freedom. I'd be fine with curfews, sterilization for those with preventable hereditary diseases, and mass surveillance.

There are plenty of privileges I'd give up just to see the people I hate get hauled off to a labour camp for doing things they objectively shouldn't be anyway. I realize these aren't popular opinions, so I don't expect them to be implemented. It's just how I feel.

They are unpopular as they are unhealthy.

Either get some therapy so youll stop hating people or find someplace people dont have to hear your personal hatred of things.

Just knowing people exist who feel this way towards others disgusts me.

These attitudes are what enables totalitarians like nazis and communists.
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bulbinking posted...

I have enough self confidence to know with enough freedom I can empower myself against any external threats.

Yeah, that's someone who lives comfortably in a safe neighbourhood talking, knowing that his own life and property are barricaded behind laws and the machinery of enforcement so he can enjoy his liberties and rights, while kidding himself that he's some rugged individualist.
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Funkdamental posted...

bulbinking posted...

I have enough self confidence to know with enough freedom I can empower myself against any external threats.

Yeah, that's someone who lives comfortably in a safe neighbourhood talking, knowing that his own life and property are barricaded behind laws and the machinery of enforcement so he can enjoy his liberties and rights, while kidding himself that he's some rugged individualist.

If you think thats MY life? Oh buddy...
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bulbinking posted...

Funkdamental posted...

bulbinking posted...

I have enough self confidence to know with enough freedom I can empower myself against any external threats.

Yeah, that's someone who lives comfortably in a safe neighbourhood talking, knowing that his own life and property are barricaded behind laws and the machinery of enforcement so he can enjoy his liberties and rights, while kidding himself that he's some rugged individualist.

If you think thats MY life? Oh buddy...

Well, I've found that the kind of comments you made are typically made by people who do fit that profile exactly; so if you feel I've unfairly pre-judged you, my apologies but blame it on experience.
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I feel that the best way, is to solve the dilemma instead:
Amuseum wrote:

Keeping and bearing arms will provide me both safety and freedom.

Taking away my arms will take away both my safety and freedom.

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both are important
where they clash the best balance between the two is needed
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Amuseum posted...

Keeping and bearing arms will provide me both safety and freedom.

Taking away my arms will take away both my safety and freedom.

But conversly
allowing hostile people to keep and bear arms takes away your safety and freedom

taking those arms away from them will provide you with safety and freedom
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GetMagnaCarter posted...

Amuseum posted...

Keeping and bearing arms will provide me both safety and freedom.

Taking away my arms will take away both my safety and freedom.

But conversly
allowing hostile people to keep and bear arms takes away your safety and freedom

taking those arms away from them will provide you with safety and freedom

But there is no way to do so, therefore everyone MUST carry at all times. When the odds are like that a lot of crime would disappear and a lot of stupid people out of gene pool
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ferko420 posted...

GetMagnaCarter posted...

Amuseum posted...

Keeping and bearing arms will provide me both safety and freedom.

Taking away my arms will take away both my safety and freedom.

But conversly
allowing hostile people to keep and bear arms takes away your safety and freedom

taking those arms away from them will provide you with safety and freedom

But there is no way to do so, therefore everyone MUST carry at all times. When the odds are like that a lot of crime would disappear and a lot of stupid people out of gene pool

the problem is the number of innocent people who get killed by psychos or caught up in crossfires before people acting sensibly
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Amuseum posted...

Keeping and bearing arms will provide me both safety and freedom

No, keeping arms is allowing more freedom, but reducing safety

Nikolas Cruz's freedom to carry a semi-automatic rifle did not assist the safety of other people

it was unusual he was taken alive - most spree killers kill themselves - its normally a form of suicide with collateral damage
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Yes.
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Is anyone surprised that with the infantilization of and by the left that so many are willing to give up what their ancestors died for in exchange for a security blanket and a pacifier?

Seriously, you people are like man sized children and it is pretty goddamn pathetic.

faramir77 posted...

Suppose you live in a society with absolutely no laws. You are free to do whatever you want. This means murderers and rapists have full access to their deviant behaviour, leaving no safety whatsoever.

uh, the winchester loaded and mounted on my bedroom wall can still provide security from home intruders so your argument is already wrong and youve barely started making it.
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Freedom is overrated.
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Troll_Police_ posted...

faramir77 posted...

Suppose you live in a society with absolutely no laws. You are free to do whatever you want. This means murderers and rapists have full access to their deviant behaviour, leaving no safety whatsoever.

uh, the winchester loaded and mounted on my bedroom wall can still provide security from home intruders so your argument is already wrong and youve barely started making it.

Its like he thinks the police are from minority report and actually prevent anything bad they arent directly witnessing (if there is no threat of danger to them, then they wait for swat)
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Freedom.
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Troll_Police_ posted...

faramir77 posted...

Suppose you live in a society with absolutely no laws. You are free to do whatever you want. This means murderers and rapists have full access to their deviant behaviour, leaving no safety whatsoever.

uh, the winchester loaded and mounted on my bedroom wall can still provide security from home intruders so your argument is already wrong and youve barely started making it.

Uh, the intruder is already armed before you even know that they're there, so your argument is already wrong and you've barely started making it.
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Freedom since all concepts of safety are illusionary until everyone uses their free choice to ensure everyone's safety. But in our current society, that seems unlikely.
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Freedom. I'm perfectly capable of keeping myself safe without being told what's the right or wrong way to go about it.
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faramir77 posted...

Troll_Police_ posted...

faramir77 posted...

Suppose you live in a society with absolutely no laws. You are free to do whatever you want. This means murderers and rapists have full access to their deviant behaviour, leaving no safety whatsoever.

uh, the winchester loaded and mounted on my bedroom wall can still provide security from home intruders so your argument is already wrong and youve barely started making it.

Uh, the intruder is already armed before you even know that they're there, so your argument is already wrong and you've barely started making it.

really? so they managed to break into my well secured house without my dogs hearing them and made it all the way into my bedroom before i could get up and walk 2 feet to the gun on my wall?

the point is, i prefer the FREEDOM to provide my own security. im not going to leave the safety of my family up to someone else's timetable when my armed response time can be 2 seconds

again, your argument was wrong before you even started making it bro. you gotta stop making so many bad assumptions and actually THINK bro.
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Troll_Police_ posted...

faramir77 posted...

Troll_Police_ posted...

faramir77 posted...

Suppose you live in a society with absolutely no laws. You are free to do whatever you want. This means murderers and rapists have full access to their deviant behaviour, leaving no safety whatsoever.

uh, the winchester loaded and mounted on my bedroom wall can still provide security from home intruders so your argument is already wrong and youve barely started making it.

Uh, the intruder is already armed before you even know that they're there, so your argument is already wrong and you've barely started making it.

really? so they managed to break into my well secured house without my dogs hearing them and made it all the way into my bedroom before i could get up and walk 2 feet to the gun on my wall?

the point is, i prefer the FREEDOM to provide my own security. im not going to leave the safety of my family up to someone else's timetable when my armed response time can be 2 seconds

again, your argument was wrong before you even started making it bro. you gotta stop making so many bad assumptions and actually THINK bro.

They trust others with their lives more than they trust themselves with their own lives.

Sad.

And some people think all slaves hate being slaves.
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faramir77 posted...

Without safety, you aren't free.

Without freedom, you aren't safe.

Both are important, end of discussion.

One doesn't exclude the other.
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Freedom itself is the right to do unsafe things.

if someone wants to hang themselves on a fish hook by their tonsils over niagara falls they should be able to do it.
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Nade Duck posted...

if someone wants to hang themselves on a fish hook by their tonsils over niagara falls they should be able to do it.

...wasn't than an episode of Jackass?

idk maybe
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The freedom to live my life actually feeling safe and not constantly fearing death at the hands of some nut who only cares about one or the other.

wwinterj25 posted...

Freedom. I'm perfectly capable of keeping myself safe without being told what's the right or wrong way to go about it.

Unfortunately, such conviction and duty to self-protection and self-responsibility is rare; such negligence is the downfall of American values and freedom. Instead, we're constantly pushing responsibility and power onto others to do their thing on our behalf.

For example, did the students trust the teachers and staff to protect them? Consequently, how well did the adults perform their duty to protect the children? Now the school pushes the onus onto the government to protect all of us. Do you think the government would arrive in time to avert this and all other crises? Going further, do you think the distrust in police force, due to incompetency and discrimination, is sufficient for the people to wager their entire safety?
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The sheer number of grown infants picking safety has lowered my faith in humanity

If you give up your freedom for safety you wind up with neither.
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