Poll of the Day > Who will stand up for the persecuted white people in South Africa?

(+) Yeah! (+)

Funkdamental posted...

Guybrush_Three posted...

fair point but it wasn't Skynyrd that's uncle had his farm took it was mine...

Apologies, this nesting of quotes and hidden quotes can play tricks on your eyes sometimes.

No worries

I'm in the unusual position of being a former anti-apartheid activist (yes, I actually am that old) who has no regrets about campaigning for a fairer South Africa (got arrested a couple of times) -- but who also took a critical stance on the ANC's role (once the news broke about ANC torture camps in Zambia for the movement's dissidents, and especially after Umkhonto we Sizwe began attacking softer targets), who warned other AA activists that the leaders of the so-called 'front line states' deserved as much criticism as the NP government in Pretoria for running one-party dictatorships and that Inkatha may not have been behind all of the violence in Natal in the early 1990s, and who thought that UNITA and possibly even Renamo might have a point.

I guess if you manage to piss everyone off, as I did, you're at least being even-handed.
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You know I honestly didn't expect a hyper-racist topic blaming the persecution of white people in Zimbabwe for all its problems (you know... instead of the fact its dictator and rulers were/are moronic madmen). In this world of straw man arguments (the lie no one stands up for racism against white people) and alternative facts I shouldn't be surprised by overt racism, but I still am.

bulbinking posted...

EvilMegas posted...

bulbinking posted...

Mead posted...

Guybrush_Three posted...

SkynyrdRocker posted...

Mead posted...

If I was a white people and lived in South Africa though, Id do whatever possible to leave tho

Yeah thats awesome but after my uncle had all his land and house taken off him and given to blacks simply because then guess what he didnt have anything left to leave after. Luckly for him and his family we all helpped get them into our contry where he died a year later.

They literally just passed the law that says they dont have to compensate white farmers for land.

Youre full of it

Do YOU know any boers from south africa to talk to?

No?

Than stfu

(I also heard similar stories from a SA coworker. Afrikaans is a fun sounding language btw)

Why do you need to know somone from there to have an opnion on it? That's the dumbest thing I've ever heard.

How can you claim to be educated enough on the topic to have an opinion based on facts without even conversing with people who live in the problem?

Dude, this isnt 1960, we have access to the biggest information hub ever at anytime, thats way more credible than "some guy thats lived in the area and has a clear bias"

You ONLY know what they have told you how is that educated on the topic?
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Voxwik posted...

You know I honestly didn't expect a hyper-racist topic blaming the persecution of white people in Zimbabwe for all its problems (you know... instead of the fact its dictator and rulers were/are moronic madmen). In this world of straw man arguments (the lie no one stands up for racism against white people) and alternative facts I shouldn't be surprised by overt racism, but I still am.

It annoys me when I'm the one who gets accused of deflection and whataboutism whenever I question why white Western opponents of Mugabe seem to mainly (or exclusively) focus on the plight of besieged white Zimbabwean farmers as if the tens of thousands of black lives that Mugabe's forces wiped out during the Gukurahundi campaign in Matabeleland (for example) don't also count to stain his record. "See, you liberal racists just don't care about racism against whites!" is guff I've often heard from people who don't care about any victims in the whole of Africa except white ones, but think they're uncovering some major double standard and that they're being noble for giving a voice to forgotten victims.

Nothing should stop anyone from raising their voice and fist against a gross injustice -- no matter to whom, or by whom, that injustice is done. But when we're talking about a continent that makes up a fifth of the planet's landmass and is home to 1.2 billion of its people or 16% of the global population, I guess it's inevitable that people are going to prioritize when they pick and choose their causes -- for whatever reason. Just try to resist the temptation to make skin colour alone the basis of it.
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Guybrush_Three posted...

Mead posted...

Guybrush_Three posted...

Mead posted...

Youre full of it

No im not. My cousin wasn't allowed to join the air force and my auntie lost her job 10 years prior simply because she was white. To top it off since moving here there all doing well other then my uncle who died hating a country and people he fell in love with in his early years. As for they have only just past the law do you think that stopped them.honestly?

Maybe dont live in a country with that kind of history and expect everything to be just peachy

maybe don't try and sum up peoples entire life with one oh so witty and funny comment on a forum. my uncle has a school named after him in a country that stole everything from him and made him quite clinical and racist before he died but then again your comment was oh so funny thank you for that.

EvilMegas posted...

Why do you need to know somone from there to have an opnion on it? That's the dumbest thing I've ever heard.

He was more so implying what you actually know about RSA and are you simply commenting because you feel like it or you have any understanding of whats going on over there at all.

My comment wasnt even an attempt at humor. Just stating a fact.

The idea that people can pay for crimes committed by their ancestors doesnt make much sense, but when the effects of past injustices continue to make life great for a minority of people and challenging to a native ethnic group, you cant act surprised and outraged when that group takes steps to level the playing field.
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Bugmeat posted...

Funkdamental posted...

I'd be interested to learn how SkynyrdRocker's claim that his uncle had his farm expropriated years ago can be reconciled with the news that the South African parliament has only just passed legislation on the matter.

Regardless of whether I believe the story or not, it's entirely possible for that to have happened. Just because parliament finally got around to making it law doesn't mean it couldn't have been a general policy that simply wasn't stopped. I mean if they're at the point that they want to make it the law then you kow it's been a general sentiment for some time. And if they've felt that way for awhile then there's no reason to believe that it wasn't something that has been quietly happening before they decided to make it an official policy. Simply on a smaller scale and to those who have no enfluence to try and make noise about it.

Its been going on for years.

People have been reporting on it for years.

What was once a cultural ohenomena backed by local court rulings has now become normalized to the point of being passed as standardized law.

Its like everybody was already kicking puppies, and individually justifying it in courts, and now to appease the puppy kickeds who are a majority voter pool the government decided to legalize and help with the puppy killing.

This isnt some conspiracy, its just nobody gives AF because nobody understands the history of white SA, and the people are white so they are evil oppressors who probably deserve to be onocked down a few pegs.

Its disgusting
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bulbinking posted...

Bugmeat posted...

Funkdamental posted...

I'd be interested to learn how SkynyrdRocker's claim that his uncle had his farm expropriated years ago can be reconciled with the news that the South African parliament has only just passed legislation on the matter.

Regardless of whether I believe the story or not, it's entirely possible for that to have happened. Just because parliament finally got around to making it law doesn't mean it couldn't have been a general policy that simply wasn't stopped. I mean if they're at the point that they want to make it the law then you kow it's been a general sentiment for some time. And if they've felt that way for awhile then there's no reason to believe that it wasn't something that has been quietly happening before they decided to make it an official policy. Simply on a smaller scale and to those who have no enfluence to try and make noise about it.

Its been going on for years.

People have been reporting on it for years.

What was once a cultural ohenomena backed by local court rulings has now become normalized to the point of being passed as standardized law.

Its like everybody was already kicking puppies, and individually justifying it in courts, and now to appease the puppy kickeds who are a majority voter pool the government decided to legalize and help with the puppy killing.

This isnt some conspiracy, its just nobody gives AF because nobody understands the history of white SA, and the people are white so they are evil oppressors who probably deserve to be onocked down a few pegs.

Its disgusting

Apartheid
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EvilMegas posted...

bulbinking posted...

Bugmeat posted...

Funkdamental posted...

I'd be interested to learn how SkynyrdRocker's claim that his uncle had his farm expropriated years ago can be reconciled with the news that the South African parliament has only just passed legislation on the matter.

Regardless of whether I believe the story or not, it's entirely possible for that to have happened. Just because parliament finally got around to making it law doesn't mean it couldn't have been a general policy that simply wasn't stopped. I mean if they're at the point that they want to make it the law then you kow it's been a general sentiment for some time. And if they've felt that way for awhile then there's no reason to believe that it wasn't something that has been quietly happening before they decided to make it an official policy. Simply on a smaller scale and to those who have no enfluence to try and make noise about it.

Its been going on for years.

People have been reporting on it for years.

What was once a cultural ohenomena backed by local court rulings has now become normalized to the point of being passed as standardized law.

Its like everybody was already kicking puppies, and individually justifying it in courts, and now to appease the puppy kickeds who are a majority voter pool the government decided to legalize and help with the puppy killing.

This isnt some conspiracy, its just nobody gives AF because nobody understands the history of white SA, and the people are white so they are evil oppressors who probably deserve to be onocked down a few pegs.

Its disgusting

Apartheid

Yep, no clue what you are talking about.
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Funkdamental posted...

Voxwik posted...

*snip*

Outsider looking in here. No clue what's going on in South Africa. I think the issue is more of a growing belief that the various racial groups in the West are starting to pose their own potential racial war with the white populace only for SJW's to try and basically bend over backwards to try to defend their actions even to the point of attempting to redefine the term 'racism' so that people can't be racist towards whites. So it's basically putting them right on the spot with this ongoing thing. There would be little doubt that this is an ethnic cleansing if what I've read here is true and the people who are gladly talking about how all white people are inherently racist and oppressive and so-forth are now being put into a position where the obvious 'right' thing to do would be to support the white populace so they aren't 'cleansed'.

It's sort of the big issue with any 'ism' or 'phobia'. You bring it up and it can suddenly eclipse everything else that's actually going on regardless of what else actually is going on. Are Christian's and Jews being murdered by a native Muslim populace? Just claim it's 'Islamophobia' and you can support the latter. Are immigrants posing a threat to your groups native culture, economics, and national security? Accuse them of racism and the people desiring to close the borders are the 'bad guys'. So long as you can get a label to stick you can get major traction in an argument since the person who refuses to bake a cake for a gay couple due to religious reasons is now in the same group as the people who gladly drag homosexuals through the streets and set them on fire.

So when a blatant case of what, under any other circumstances would be called 'racism', arises the people can't wait to finally reverse the table and watch them squirm. It's not that they don't care at all about the other people being killed by the regime; it's that the chance to finally flip the tables and watch the SJW crowd try to squirm out of this one is too tempting to pass up.
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Course not.
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BADoglick posted...

I don't believe in intervention regardless of skin color. That's their issue. We're not world police

Racism is a world issue.
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TheCyborgNinja posted...

JanwayDaahl posted...

ThatHappySack posted...

No one can, since in our day and age discrimination against white people is not racist.

It's kind of funny- you have a new age movement amongst the altright that tries to act as though white people are victims whenever something like a hate crime comes up. Not only is this not the case, but whites in the west still have a great deal of privilege in most aspects of life. It's comical for them to complain about systematic oppression and such.

While I think the alt right are too touchy, you saying "white people have it good in place A, so fuck them in place B" is a really stupid point to attempt to make. You're changing the subject... That's how you're coming across anyway.

That's not what I was saying at all. Whites are seldom the targets of hate crimes, and they have the most privilege of all races when it comes to people in the US.
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Unbridled9 posted...

it's that the chance to finally flip the tables and watch the SJW crowd try to squirm out of this one is too tempting to pass up.

Not everyone who tries to explain why the land issue in South Africa was always inevitably going to be a poisoned chalice is necessarily an "SJW" who believes that all whites there deserve everything they get. The controversy is as much an historical legacy of patterns of white settlement, land expropriation and apartheid as it is a simple thirsting for the blood of Boers. I feel sorry for anyone who's trapped in a situation created by people who are mostly long since dead, but this isn't coming out of nowhere.

However, a cynic -- and I'm one of them -- would also suggest that rubber-stamping wildcat land confiscations is a convenient way for the authorities to try to diffuse popular rural discontent over poor economic management by previous ANC administrations.

Whether land losses for some white South African farmers are automatically worse than the confiscations of land and the displacement of tens of thousands of people in Uganda to make way for forest reserves (there are profits to be made from climate change funds under REDD+) or multinational companies (e.g. Bugala Island since 2004, to make way for palm oil plantations owned by Bidco), is of course a moot point.
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It ended in 91. How are most involved "long since dead"?
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EvilMegas posted...

It ended in 91. How are most involved "long since dead"?

In the sense that most original expropriations of African land took place much earlier.
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Okay, I get that.
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I think it is important to stand up for some causes that might not be popular. (Seasoned campaigners know only too well it can be a long, hard struggle to drag public support behind a cause. The pop-culture history of the anti-apartheid movement makes it seem like it was instantly fashionable in Europe and North America, sprouting viral campaigns and celebrity bandwagoning overnight, but the reality was that for a very long time it was tough to get the man or woman in the street to give a shit about the ethical implications of buying Outspan oranges.) But I'd argue that the causes in Africa today that really do have minimal awareness or support in the outside world are those that concern millions of truly 'invisible' people: poor black Africans whose poverty isn't always caused by conflict or climate but often by the activities of multinationals and of the corrupt governments who shake hands on dirty deals with them.
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Most likely no one as there is nothing to gain from helping them unfortunately.

The reality of civil war and genocide is getting very real in SA.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=147&v=FT3CLYhrCyA

minervo posted...

The reality of civil war and genocide is getting very real in SA.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=147&v=FT3CLYhrCyA

Its like everybody forgot rwana genocide, and the countless wars and battles between local warlords.

So when people are told of the millions who are starving and affected by war they are happy throwing miney at it, suddenly when its white people who are suffering people question the information as conspiracy?

WAKE THE FUCK UP ALREADY PEOPLE!!!
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bulbinking posted...

suddenly when its white people who are suffering people question the information as conspiracy?

"Questioning information as conspiracy" has been the disease of American politics for over a year now. Blame the buffoon who keeps bellowing about "fake news! fake news!" for getting the public into the habit.
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bulbinking posted...

So when people are told of the millions who are starving and affected by war they are happy throwing miney at it

Africa is the litmus paper of the worlds conscience. One in every nine people alive on Earth lives in Africa south of the Sahara, and so do two in every five of the worlds poor despite the fact that the region yields around 30% of the planets mineral wealth from beneath its soils and seabeds. Africa is the real acid test of whether or not the global community has the willpower to make changes that scream out to be made.

Yet since apartheid and the Rwandan genocide ended nearly 24 years ago, Africa has been shoved to the back of the bottom drawer of global politics; its barely even a sideshow in the war on terror. It's not just the plight of white farmers in South Africa that's being ignored, as you seem to think. But if our capacity for human empathy in this wired world is so shrivelled that we can push almost a billion lives permanently beyond the edge of our radar, then all our self-righteous back-patting over the supposed civilised virtues and moral leadership of the rich Western democracies is just a slop-bucketful of meaningless bullshit lies.
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But a lazy lapse into compassion fatigue isnt the only problem. Knowledge and understanding of Africa are in short supply too. Africa is seen as a bottomless charity sinkhole (yet being hooked up to a permanent drip-feed of foreign aid rarely tarnishes the image of welfare frauds like Israel), its calamities always ones of its own making because of some supposed inherent, uniquely African character defect thats passed down like a bad gene. Why this perception? Because the Africa we see pretty much the only face of Africa we ever get to see is always a symbolic, starving child. But the kid is missing a backstory and the crisis rarely gets given the context it deserves.

Thats predictable. The big disaster-relief NGOs are often wary of talking politics and economics. (During the Ethiopian famine of 1983-85, NGOs who were guests of Mengistus government were careful not to blame it. Yet putting a bullet through Mengistu's head would possibly have saved more lives than all the sales of the Band Aid and Live Aid singles.)

African journalists work in a chronically under-funded and sometimes extremely risky profession. (At the time when I stopped counting in March last year, 156 journalists had been killed in sub-Saharan Africa since 1992, 102 of them local journalists murdered in direct reprisal for their work.) They face an uphill struggle to make their voices heard. The major news agencies who dominate reportage from the continent for the English-language market arent really geared to supply insider analysis by seasoned specialists. (BBC News employs just one full-time foreign correspondent to cover Africa.) Most people will never even pick up a book if it's about Africa. So instead, the information gaps get filled in on forums like this one with lazy assumptions, fuzzy misconceptions, and ingrained prejudice.

So if the childs starving, it must be because Africa has too many babies and not enough condoms (not because government counter-insurgency policy uses hunger as a weapon). If ethnic flashpoints erupt in violence, it must be because African tribes have always hated each other (not because corrupt ministers have enriched their crony networks at the expense of a particular province). If independent farmers are poor, it must be because African peasants are too stuck in their ways to change traditional methods (not because theyre obliged to sell their produce to state marketing boards at prices fixed below market rates, or because of a lack of capital).

Misdiagnose the problems, and the snake-oil cures (e.g. the disastrous structural adjustment programs imposed by the IMF and the World Bank) will simply fail or turn toxic.
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minervo posted...

Africans have a different culture than everyone else. The west has been shoving their values down Africa's throat, but they don't want it. All the bureaucracy, all the laws and so-called order, the artificial hierarchy, the money... They'd rather live in wolf packs, with a leader who whips them when they step out of line, and living without much progress but rather saving existing values.

You're talking dogshit.
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Blacks need role models, and there simply aren't any positive role models who are black except those who latched on to Christianity to save their souls. Since most blacks aren't hard-core Christians, tho many are, they turn to rappers or drug dealers and gangsters as their role models. All civilization was founded on religion, and blacks weren't allowed to keep theirs when armies came and told them to convert. They thought they were doing the right thing, and they got a lot out of it for personal gain, but they will be punished by God for their sins. In the end, I see a lot in common with Natives, and I really think we should have left Africa alone just like the Americas to live in tribes and the British, Spanish, Portuguese etc should have stayed in their own land.

Funkdamental posted...

minervo posted...

Africans have a different culture than everyone else. The west has been shoving their values down Africa's throat, but they don't want it. All the bureaucracy, all the laws and so-called order, the artificial hierarchy, the money... They'd rather live in wolf packs, with a leader who whips them when they step out of line, and living without much progress but rather saving existing values.

You're talking dogshit.

You're looking at the situation under a microscope but reality is so plain that a child could understand.

Kay. This topic is over. MODS!
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tc wtf are you doin
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minervo posted...

Funkdamental posted...

minervo posted...

Africans have a different culture than everyone else. The west has been shoving their values down Africa's throat, but they don't want it. All the bureaucracy, all the laws and so-called order, the artificial hierarchy, the money... They'd rather live in wolf packs, with a leader who whips them when they step out of line, and living without much progress but rather saving existing values.

You're talking dogshit.

You're looking at the situation under a microscope but reality is so plain that a child could understand.

You do, indeed, appear to have a child's mind.
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Funkdamental posted...

minervo posted...

Funkdamental posted...

minervo posted...

Africans have a different culture than everyone else. The west has been shoving their values down Africa's throat, but they don't want it. All the bureaucracy, all the laws and so-called order, the artificial hierarchy, the money... They'd rather live in wolf packs, with a leader who whips them when they step out of line, and living without much progress but rather saving existing values.

You're talking dogshit.

You're looking at the situation under a microscope but reality is so plain that a child could understand.

You do, indeed, appear to have a child's mind.

Since you can't argue any reason but attack me personally so i could at least understand your pov, then i won't waste my time or attack back, like i could.

Come on guys, close the topic.
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EvilMegas posted...

Come on guys, close the topic.

What have you ever done for black people, sir King?

minervo posted...

EvilMegas posted...

Come on guys, close the topic.

What have you ever done for black people, sir King?

He asked the mods to close this dumpster fire of a topic, for one thing.
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Well done, TC. You've managed to make decent people who might be concerned about the treatment of the white minority in South Africa too embarrassed to be openly associated with a cause that's evidently just a Trojan horse for alt-right douchebags with a racist agenda and for whom "reality" is YouTube videos. Congratulations on squandering any sympathy for your "cause".

Ordinary white South Africans are badly served by having dogshit topics like this "support" them. Just close the topic and try to work out what you're doing wrong.
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Funkdamental posted...

Well done, TC. You've managed to make decent people who might be concerned about the treatment of the white minority in South Africa too embarrassed to be openly associated with a cause that's evidently just a Trojan horse for alt-right douchebags with a racist agenda and for whom "reality" is YouTube videos. Congratulations on squandering any sympathy for your "cause".

Ordinary white South Africans are badly served by having dogshit topics like this "support" them. Just close the topic and try to work out what you're doing wrong.

Think you hit the nail on the head here, for a cause that's close to my heart I don't want to debate along side or against what can only be described as the youtube news generation. awesome you get all of your news from that giant hole of an echo chamber in your personally tailored recommended videos feed.

Funkdamental posted...

Well done, TC. You've managed to make decent people who might be concerned about the treatment of the white minority in South Africa too embarrassed to be openly associated with a cause that's evidently just a Trojan horse for alt-right douchebags with a racist agenda and for whom "reality" is YouTube videos. Congratulations on squandering any sympathy for your "cause".

Ordinary white South Africans are badly served by having dogshit topics like this "support" them. Just close the topic and try to work out what you're doing wrong.

Im terribly sorry about your suffering kind sir, or miss, but we have this one guy in our group who is a right asshole that cares for your cause, and we don't like this person, so anything that person likes or wants we have to reject on principle. Its too bad in the beginning we actually wanted to help, but not at the expense of acknowledging our enemies concerns for their safety!
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