Current Events > Monica Lewinsky says her relationship with Bill Clinton was not consensual

(+) Yeah! (+)

Bill being in a position of power doesn't make it non-consensual, it just makes unethical. If Bill actively leveraged his position to coerce her into sexual intercourse for threat of her job, then there is an argument to be made it was non-consensual or illegal in a similar manner.
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EndOfDiscOne posted...

Consent can be withdrawn at any time

No. No it can't. If you agreed to it at the time, then it was consensual. What you're spewing is just radfem nonsense.
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YourDrunkFather posted...

EndOfDiscOne posted...

Consent can be withdrawn at any time

No. No it can't. If you agreed to it at the time, then it was consensual. What you're spewing is just radfem nonsense.

The words you're looking for are regret can be applied at any time. Consent is before and during. If you can prove mitigating circumstances like inebriation or being extorted (which spoiler warning; means it wasn't consent) obviously, but this before/during/after I was hunting it but 20 years later it's rape thing only further damages the movement she's attaching herself to.
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Darksaber310 posted...

but this before/during/after I was hunting it but 20 years later it's rape thing only further damages the movement she's attaching herself to.

she probably doesn't realize that
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Showing someone your thong and then blowing them sounds an awful lot like consent.
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fenderbender321 posted...

How is a man supposed to know the difference between when a woman is agreeing to do sex stuff with him because she's attracted to him and when a woman is agreeing to do sex stuff with him because she feels intimidated?

You shouldn't be having sex with people you have direct power over, for one.
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I think we should seriously reconsider how we conceptualize consent in these situations (as a society I mean) BUT I also don't know that it's particularly helpful in this instance where, as people have noted, the victim was not only consenting to but actively pursuing the relationship above and beyond what she thought her superior might like
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Lewinsky plays the "victim" card hoping it will it score her a hefty amount of attention points in the game of life.

That dumb bitch just wants to latch onto the movement to try to get something for nothing and I guess profit off of becoming a meme.

There are a few other women that claim Bill Clinton raped them. One has a book IIRC.

Make of that what you will.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Juanita_Broaddrick
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Darksaber310 posted...

YourDrunkFather posted...

EndOfDiscOne posted...

Consent can be withdrawn at any time

No. No it can't. If you agreed to it at the time, then it was consensual. What you're spewing is just radfem nonsense.

The words you're looking for are regret can be applied at any time. Consent is before and during. If you can prove mitigating circumstances like inebriation or being extorted (which spoiler warning; means it wasn't consent) obviously, but this before/during/after I was hunting it but 20 years later it's rape thing only further damages the movement she's attaching herself to.

Ya, unless it's like black out drunk or something and she was like passed out I can't say I agree with this. A girl getting drunk, fucking somebody, and regretting it after isnt rape.
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Balrog0 posted...

I think we should seriously reconsider how we conceptualize consent in these situations (as a society I mean) BUT I also don't know that it's particularly helpful in this instance where, as people have noted, the victim was not only consenting to but actively pursuing the relationship above and beyond what she thought her superior might like

Yeah. I personally feel weird calling it "non-consensual", when you're making an argument that she was "unable to give consent" in that situation, because in that case it doesn't matter what Monica says, it's non-consensual regardless.

But that's because of the implications of a person saying they had sex that was non-consensual.
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I remember going to the carnival and being able to win pictures of her with white on her lip and the caption Not Milk.

TheGrindery posted...

I remember going to the carnival and being able to win pictures of her with white on her lip and the caption Not Milk.

Holy shit dude!

ClunkerSlim posted...

It seems like Monica isnt happy with her place in history and is desperately trying to rewrite it.

...or desperately grasping for a half-hour of fame.

Or she has now gained the courage to speak the truth.
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This basically boils down to the difference between sexual assault and sexual misconduct, the latter which I think this was.

I know Lewinsky's not saying Bill raped her, but she's well within her right to say their relationship wasn't purely consensual when she was a staffer and he was the president of the United States.

I just think it's important that she's voicing her doubts, because it's an important conversation to have. These things happen all the time, and they're gonna keep happening unless we have a thorough discussion on the matter.

EndOfDiscOne posted...

Consent can be withdrawn at any time

What kind of hippie voodoo logic is that? You can retroactively withdraw consent? So someone you had consensual sex with 20 years ago can now claim rape? Even after they've said many times it was consensual?
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Basically if you hold or have held a position of power and have ever been alone with a woman, you better hope she can't remember it.

Evidence doesn't matter anymore. The public wants to believe each of these stories. It happened is more fun to talk about than it didn't.

Jaded_Dragon posted...

EndOfDiscOne posted...

Consent can be withdrawn at any time

What kind of hippie voodoo logic is that? You can retroactively withdraw consent? So someone you had consensual sex with 20 years ago can now claim rape? Even after they've said many times it was consensual?

yup. This could actually be good for us men as it means we need to videotape every sex act as proof of our innocense
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Wait, so consent can be rescinded years later? Oh snap! My ex is going to JAIL!
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EscapeFromHell posted...

Wait, so consent can be rescinded years later? Oh snap! My ex is going to JAIL!

Is your ex male?
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EndOfDiscOne posted...

EscapeFromHell posted...

Wait, so consent can be rescinded years later? Oh snap! My ex is going to JAIL!

Is your ex male?

In this current climate "she" might be. XD
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Chicken_Butt posted...

username191 posted...

She was only 22 at the time. Can you imagine being front and center in the news for years because of something that happened when you were 22?

Not "something that happened". You make it sound like Bill came flying out of nowhere and hit her like a freight train. In reality she made it happen. She made those choices. She wasn't pressured, she was doing the pressuring. She wanted that Presidential D so she could reap the benefits.

I got the impression that she was looking back on it and thinking it wasn't right, which is perfectly justified given that she's now almost as old as President Clinton was. She now knows how people in their 40s think and should think, and that information may contradict what she thought she knew then. Who hasn't done something they regret 5, 10, or even 20 years later? It's not fair to assume that just because she wanted something that long ago (if she wanted it) that she should never be able to reconsider whether it was good for her or not.

Sex is a two-way street though. She didn't make it happen, she took steps maybe to make it happen, but it's not like it was solely her decision.
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After reading that, Clinton clearly took advantage of a mentally disabled woman. He's disgusting.
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username191 posted...

Chicken_Butt posted...

username191 posted...

She was only 22 at the time. Can you imagine being front and center in the news for years because of something that happened when you were 22?

Not "something that happened". You make it sound like Bill came flying out of nowhere and hit her like a freight train. In reality she made it happen. She made those choices. She wasn't pressured, she was doing the pressuring. She wanted that Presidential D so she could reap the benefits.

I got the impression that she was looking back on it and thinking it wasn't right, which is perfectly justified given that she's now almost as old as President Clinton was. She now knows how people in their 40s think and should think, and that information may contradict what she thought she knew then. Who hasn't done something they regret 5, 10, or even 20 years later? It's not fair to assume that just because she wanted something that long ago (if she wanted it) that she should never be able to reconsider whether it was good for her or not.

Sex is a two-way street though. She didn't make it happen, she took steps maybe to make it happen, but it's not like it was solely her decision.

Regretting what she did years later doesn't change "what I did" into "what happened to me". She sucked the President's cock, which is an act she chose to do and actively pursued. Whether it was good for her or not is irrelevant.
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EndOfDiscOne posted...

Consent can be withdrawn at any time

No, if you willingly consent to sexual acts, you don't get to change your mind 20 years later.

Esrac, I have to politely disagree with you.

I'd like to point out that the connotation of a woman who is regretful about sex and self-victimizing is not appropriate here (or perhaps anywhere, but that's a different discussion). These two things almost seem to paint a picture of the prototypical emotion-driven women who flings herself at someone then pretends to regret it a day later so she can be a victim. That description is commonly used online to describe a woman unfavorly, and while I am certainly not saying that's what you meant, again I don't think it's an apt description here.

First of all, this wasn't a one night stand. There was a twenty year gap here in coming forward and the action itself. People develop over time not just in opinions, but knowledge and values. To compare the Monica today and the Monica then is impossible based on the limited information the news story gives us -- there is simply too much life span to qualify at a glance. That is why it is important to evaluate her statements in the context of a twenty year span, so I do think there's more to it then simply regretting what she did later. There's also development and new information for her to consider. It's too easy to judge based on a news story that tries to neatly tie everything into a number of paragraphs.

So I disagree with the description given, but I also disagree with the distribution of responsibility. The person with the more power in a sexual relationship should be especially careful to ensure that they don't harm a person with lesser power. The person with lesser agency is especially vulnerable in sex acts for a variety of reasons, and that's why sex acts should only happen on even grounds. Some blame here also lies at the feet of Former President Clinton for reciprocating in the pursuance.

Finally, I think it's important that she evaluates herself more positively than she has described in this news article. She went through a rough time in her life because of this and it's important she feels she came out wiser and better off, not abused. In that sense, whether it was good for her or not is important.

So I think there's a lot going on with the post you made, and in this topic in general. I'm not trying to put you on the spot or criticize you, but I think it's important to unpack the sentiments in this topic more to understand them more fully.
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Metro2 posted...

began to change her mind about the affair

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Monica Lewinsky needs to fuck off. She will always be remembered as the lady that gave the president a beej and nothing is gonna change that.

Just because she regrets it doesn't mean it was not consensual.
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