Current Events > ITT: A gun-control advocate learns about guns

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UnfairRepresent 02/24/18 6:22:54 PM #51:	darkjedilink posted... So, fuck the Constitution? The Consitution says nothing about it being legal for lunatics to buy Semi-automatic AR15s. It says the "Right to bare arms shall not be infringed" before weapons of that maginitude even existed District of Columbia v. Heller already cleared this up. Like most rights, the Second Amendment right is not unlimited. It is not a right to keep and carry any weapon whatsoever in any manner whatsoever and for whatever purpose: For example, concealed weapons prohibitions have been upheld under the Amendment or state analogues. The Courts opinion should not be taken to cast doubt on longstanding prohibitions on the possession of firearms by felons and the mentally ill, or laws forbidding the carrying of firearms in sensitive places such as schools and government buildings, or laws imposing conditions and qualifications on the commercial sale of arms. Millers holding that the sorts of weapons protected are those in common use at the time finds support in the historical tradition of prohibiting the carrying of dangerous and unusual weapons. You're "Right to bare arms" have already been infringed if you take that literally. You can't own rocket launchers, you can't open carry, children can't own guns. You can't bare arms in schools, you can't bare arms if you're a convicted felon. Etc etc. The type of gun control implemented in the UK would not violate the Consitution if it had public support. "The Right To Bare Arms" is and always has been interprative. They are infringed literally constantly and have been since day one as the government tries to figure out the best way to protect people (or make money) You're confusing "The Consitution" with "What me and my friends enjoy." Think about it, the point of the second amendment was to resist the government taking over again (which is a moot point now anyhow) and self-defense/protection. Why would a straight pull .223 AR15 not stop some nutbar breaking into your home but a Semi-automatic AR15 would? The only thing it DOES do is change the death toll from 1 to 17 if a lunatic grabs one and shoots up a school. And when you can kill 5+ people that easily, it becomes incredibly tempting to do so if you're an unhinged human being. You need more than to just shout "MY CONSITUTION!" you need an actual argument. Fuck laws? "We should have laws that make sense and save lives." "SO YOU'RE SAYING FUCK LAWS!?" ....wut.... Let's just fuck everyone's rights because YOU are scared? I'm not scared because I'm not a schoolboy. I'm completely safe. I just care about all these bodies of innocent kids that keep piling up exclusively in America who you don't appear to give a shit about. So we'll just wait for the next batch of corpses in about 30 days or so. --- ^ Hey now that's completely unfair. https://imgtc.com/i/14JHfrt.jpg <cite>UnfairRepresent posted [p:896700626] in ITT: A gun... [t:76353496]...</cite> <quote><cite>darkjedilink posted...</cite> <quote> So, fuck the Constitution? </quote> The Consitution says nothing about it being legal for lunatics to buy Semi-automatic AR15s. It says the "Right to bare arms shall not be infringed" before weapons of that maginitude even existed District of Columbia v. Heller already cleared this up. Like most rights, the Second Amendment right is not unlimited. It is not a right to keep and carry any weapon whatsoever in any manner whatsoever and for whatever purpose: For example, concealed weapons prohibitions have been upheld under the Amendment or state analogues. The Courts opinion should not be taken to cast doubt on longstanding prohibitions on the possession of firearms by felons and the mentally ill, or laws forbidding the carrying of firearms in sensitive places such as schools and government buildings, or laws imposing conditions and qualifications on the commercial sale of arms. Millers holding that the sorts of weapons protected are those in common use at the time finds support in the historical tradition of prohibiting the carrying of dangerous and unusual weapons. You're "Right to bare arms" have already been infringed if you take that literally. You can't own rocket launchers, you can't open carry, children can't own guns. You can't bare arms in schools, you can't bare arms if you're a convicted felon. Etc etc. The type of gun control implemented in the UK would not violate the Consitution if it had public support. "The Right To Bare Arms" is and always has been interprative. They are infringed literally constantly and have been since day one as the government tries to figure out the best way to protect people (or make money) You're confusing "The Consitution" with "What me and my friends enjoy." Think about it, the point of the second amendment was to resist the government taking over again (which is a moot point now anyhow) and self-defense/protection. Why would a straight pull .223 AR15 not stop some nutbar breaking into your home but a Semi-automatic AR15 would? The only thing it DOES do is change the death toll from 1 to 17 if a lunatic grabs one and shoots up a school. And when you can kill 5+ people that easily, it becomes incredibly tempting to do so if you're an unhinged human being. You need more than to just shout "MY CONSITUTION!" you need an actual argument. <quote>Fuck laws?</quote> "We should have laws that make sense and save lives." "SO YOU'RE SAYING FUCK LAWS!?" ....wut.... <quote> Let's just fuck everyone's rights because YOU are scared?</quote> I'm not scared because I'm not a schoolboy. I'm completely safe. I just care about all these bodies of innocent kids that keep piling up exclusively in America who you don't appear to give a shit about. So we'll just wait for the next batch of corpses in about 30 days or so.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Mr_Biscuit 02/24/18 6:23:54 PM #52:	@Offworlder1 Yeah, understandable. I think we've hit a sensible point where we could have a reasonable debate when we've arrived at "I use it for my hobby," though (not belittling that, just saying we're obviously approaching the middle ground of the subject when that's the issue at hand). What's your job, by the way? I think there's a case to be made for exceptions depending on your employment. --- https://www.bigplay.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/04/img_6703.jpg <cite>Mr_Biscuit posted [p:896700678] in ITT: A gun... [t:76353496]...</cite> <quote>@Offworlder1 Yeah, understandable. I think we've hit a sensible point where we could have a reasonable debate when we've arrived at "I use it for my hobby," though (not belittling that, just saying we're obviously approaching the middle ground of the subject when that's the issue at hand). What's your job, by the way? I think there's a case to be made for exceptions depending on your employment.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Tropicalwood 02/24/18 6:23:59 PM #53:	Offworlder1 posted... Its automatic and burst fire weapons that are not ideal for home defense and should require a $200 tax stamp as class 3 weapons should require permits to own. Except class 3 weapons are piss easy to make and the case that claimed it wasn't outright unconstitutional involved a court packed by American Hitler/Stalin and a dead black man with an attorney that abandoned him because the judge that claimed it was unconstitutional and made him go to the supreme court was a former congressman that pushed for the NFA in the first place. Also NFA items are tracked by the ATF, so you have to tell them far in advance that you're taking them to the range or else they'll kill you. --- ayy lmao ayy lmao \|\| oaml oaml yya yya ayy lmao ayy lmao \|\| oaml oaml yya yya <cite>Tropicalwood posted [p:896700684] in ITT: A gun... [t:76353496]...</cite> <quote><cite>Offworlder1 posted...</cite> <quote>Its automatic and burst fire weapons that are not ideal for home defense and should require a $200 tax stamp as class 3 weapons should require permits to own.</quote> Except class 3 weapons are piss easy to make and the case that claimed it wasn't outright unconstitutional involved a court packed by American Hitler/Stalin and a dead black man with an attorney that abandoned him because the judge that claimed it was unconstitutional and made him go to the supreme court was a former congressman that pushed for the NFA in the first place. Also NFA items are tracked by the ATF, so you have to tell them far in advance that you're taking them to the range or else they'll kill you.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Offworlder1 02/24/18 6:24:21 PM #54:	@Questionmarktarius The military still uses semi automatics as side arms, pretty sure the army or marines recently made a new deal with sig saur to use their pistol as their new side arm. --- "Always two there are, a master and an apprentice" 3DS FC: 1564 - 7512 - 1815 <cite>Offworlder1 posted [p:896700700] in ITT: A gun... [t:76353496]...</cite> <quote>@Questionmarktarius The military still uses semi automatics as side arms, pretty sure the army or marines recently made a new deal with sig saur to use their pistol as their new side arm.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Offworlder1 02/24/18 6:38:35 PM #55:	I work armed security, some days its driving/riding in the armored car/truck, some days I guard a vault, and on weekends like today I am at the courthouse. Courthouse is pretty dead today, the commissioner and the police are watching Spider-Man Homecoming on the tv in the back. The public defender is surfing the web and I am at the front by the monitor on here and playing Star Trek Timelines. Courthouse is usually this mellow and quiet but Im not turning down an easy paycheck. Weekends I usually dont have much to do and it is when you end the week on a quiet note. @Mr_Biscuit --- "Always two there are, a master and an apprentice" 3DS FC: 1564 - 7512 - 1815 <cite>Offworlder1 posted [p:896701444] in ITT: A gun... [t:76353496]...</cite> <quote>I work armed security, some days its driving/riding in the armored car/truck, some days I guard a vault, and on weekends like today I am at the courthouse. Courthouse is pretty dead today, the commissioner and the police are watching Spider-Man Homecoming on the tv in the back. The public defender is surfing the web and I am at the front by the monitor on here and playing Star Trek Timelines. Courthouse is usually this mellow and quiet but Im not turning down an easy paycheck. Weekends I usually dont have much to do and it is when you end the week on a quiet note. @Mr_Biscuit</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Questionmarktarius 02/24/18 6:40:18 PM #56:	Offworlder1 posted... @Questionmarktarius The military still uses semi automatics as side arms, pretty sure the army or marines recently made a new deal with sig saur to use their pistol as their new side arm. Yes, but when the need arises, out come the select-fire weapons. <cite>Questionmarktarius posted [p:896701531] in ITT: A gun... [t:76353496]...</cite> <quote><cite>Offworlder1 posted...</cite> <quote>@Questionmarktarius The military still uses semi automatics as side arms, pretty sure the army or marines recently made a new deal with sig saur to use their pistol as their new side arm.</quote> Yes, but when the need arises, out come the select-fire weapons.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Mr_Biscuit 02/24/18 6:44:25 PM #57:	Fair enough. As far as your particular situation is concerned, I don't see why armed security guards couldn't have access to a slightly higher grade of weapon than was just regularly available, though. It's not a catch-all (nothing is), but I'm pretty sure your average shooter isn't gonna go to the trouble of getting a job as armed security so he can get a deadlier weapon and THEN go nuts on everyone. As for the hobby aspect of it in general, to me, that kinda falls under "well... tough" when we're talking legislatively, considering there's still a wide variety of guns that people can have fun with and do target practice or whatever they want. I'm not unsympathetic to how that kinda sucks for people who enjoy it responsibly, but I don't think that should be the biggest consideration in these conversations if I'm being honest. --- https://www.bigplay.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/04/img_6703.jpg <cite>Mr_Biscuit posted [p:896701758] in ITT: A gun... [t:76353496]...</cite> <quote>Fair enough. As far as your particular situation is concerned, I don't see why armed security guards couldn't have access to a slightly higher grade of weapon than was just regularly available, though. It's not a catch-all (nothing is), but I'm pretty sure your average shooter isn't gonna go to the trouble of getting a job as armed security so he can get a deadlier weapon and THEN go nuts on everyone. As for the hobby aspect of it in general, to me, that kinda falls under "well... tough" when we're talking legislatively, considering there's still a wide variety of guns that people can have fun with and do target practice or whatever they want. I'm not unsympathetic to how that kinda sucks for people who enjoy it responsibly, but I don't think that should be the biggest consideration in these conversations if I'm being honest.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Offworlder1 02/24/18 6:44:26 PM #58:	My only point was the military still has them and uses them at times nothing more. @Questionmarktarius --- "Always two there are, a master and an apprentice" 3DS FC: 1564 - 7512 - 1815 <cite>Offworlder1 posted [p:896701761] in ITT: A gun... [t:76353496]...</cite> <quote>My only point was the military still has them and uses them at times nothing more. @Questionmarktarius</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Offworlder1 02/24/18 6:54:53 PM #59:	When guarding a vault or in the armored car/truck I am not just using my side arm, we get higher grade weapons that the job provides or we can choose to bring our own after it is cleared for duty. I would not be working those two unless I felt properly armed, Im willing to work a dangerous job but I will not do so without sufficient means to keep myself safe. Most days I use my gear but I do get lazy every so often and use company gear which is still very good. @Mr_Biscuit --- "Always two there are, a master and an apprentice" 3DS FC: 1564 - 7512 - 1815 <cite>Offworlder1 posted [p:896702303] in ITT: A gun... [t:76353496]...</cite> <quote>When guarding a vault or in the armored car/truck I am not just using my side arm, we get higher grade weapons that the job provides or we can choose to bring our own after it is cleared for duty. I would not be working those two unless I felt properly armed, Im willing to work a dangerous job but I will not do so without sufficient means to keep myself safe. Most days I use my gear but I do get lazy every so often and use company gear which is still very good. @Mr_Biscuit</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
darkjedilink 02/24/18 7:01:46 PM #61:	UnfairRepresent posted... darkjedilink posted... So, fuck the Constitution? The Consitution says nothing about it being legal for lunatics to buy Semi-automatic AR15s. It says the "Right to bare arms shall not be infringed" before weapons of that maginitude even existed District of Columbia v. Heller already cleared this up. Like most rights, the Second Amendment right is not unlimited. It is not a right to keep and carry any weapon whatsoever in any manner whatsoever and for whatever purpose: For example, concealed weapons prohibitions have been upheld under the Amendment or state analogues. The Courts opinion should not be taken to cast doubt on longstanding prohibitions on the possession of firearms by felons and the mentally ill, or laws forbidding the carrying of firearms in sensitive places such as schools and government buildings, or laws imposing conditions and qualifications on the commercial sale of arms. Millers holding that the sorts of weapons protected are those in common use at the time finds support in the historical tradition of prohibiting the carrying of dangerous and unusual weapons. You're "Right to bare arms" have already been infringed if you take that literally. You can't own rocket launchers, you can't open carry, children can't own guns. You can't bare arms in schools, you can't bare arms if you're a convicted felon. Etc etc. The type of gun control implemented in the UK would not violate the Consitution if it had public support. "The Right To Bare Arms" is and always has been interprative. They are infringed literally constantly and have been since day one as the government tries to figure out the best way to protect people (or make money) You're confusing "The Consitution" with "What me and my friends enjoy." Think about it, the point of the second amendment was to resist the government taking over again (which is a moot point now anyhow) and self-defense/protection. Why would a straight pull .223 AR15 not stop some nutbar breaking into your home but a Semi-automatic AR15 would? The only thing it DOES do is change the death toll from 1 to 17 if a lunatic grabs one and shoots up a school. And when you can kill 5+ people that easily, it becomes incredibly tempting to do so if you're an unhinged human being. You need more than to just shout "MY CONSITUTION!" you need an actual argument. Fuck laws? "We should have laws that make sense and save lives." "SO YOU'RE SAYING FUCK LAWS!?" ....wut.... Let's just fuck everyone's rights because YOU are scared? I'm not scared because I'm not a schoolboy. I'm completely safe. I just care about all these bodies of innocent kids that keep piling up exclusively in America who you don't appear to give a shit about. So we'll just wait for the next batch of corpses in about 30 days or so. You do know that DC vs Heller ALSO said that banning semi-automatic weapons in and of itself is unconstitutional, right? Like, are you capable of rational discourse? --- 'It's okay that those gangbangers stole all my personal belongings and cash at gunpoint, cuz they're building a rec center!' - OneTimeBen <cite>darkjedilink posted [p:896702644] in ITT: A gun... [t:76353496]...</cite> <quote><cite>UnfairRepresent posted...</cite> <quote><cite>darkjedilink posted...</cite> <quote> So, fuck the Constitution? </quote> The Consitution says nothing about it being legal for lunatics to buy Semi-automatic AR15s. It says the "Right to bare arms shall not be infringed" before weapons of that maginitude even existed District of Columbia v. Heller already cleared this up. Like most rights, the Second Amendment right is not unlimited. It is not a right to keep and carry any weapon whatsoever in any manner whatsoever and for whatever purpose: For example, concealed weapons prohibitions have been upheld under the Amendment or state analogues. The Courts opinion should not be taken to cast doubt on longstanding prohibitions on the possession of firearms by felons and the mentally ill, or laws forbidding the carrying of firearms in sensitive places such as schools and government buildings, or laws imposing conditions and qualifications on the commercial sale of arms. Millers holding that the sorts of weapons protected are those in common use at the time finds support in the historical tradition of prohibiting the carrying of dangerous and unusual weapons. You're "Right to bare arms" have already been infringed if you take that literally. You can't own rocket launchers, you can't open carry, children can't own guns. You can't bare arms in schools, you can't bare arms if you're a convicted felon. Etc etc. The type of gun control implemented in the UK would not violate the Consitution if it had public support. "The Right To Bare Arms" is and always has been interprative. They are infringed literally constantly and have been since day one as the government tries to figure out the best way to protect people (or make money) You're confusing "The Consitution" with "What me and my friends enjoy." Think about it, the point of the second amendment was to resist the government taking over again (which is a moot point now anyhow) and self-defense/protection. Why would a straight pull .223 AR15 not stop some nutbar breaking into your home but a Semi-automatic AR15 would? The only thing it DOES do is change the death toll from 1 to 17 if a lunatic grabs one and shoots up a school. And when you can kill 5+ people that easily, it becomes incredibly tempting to do so if you're an unhinged human being. You need more than to just shout "MY CONSITUTION!" you need an actual argument. <quote>Fuck laws?</quote> "We should have laws that make sense and save lives." "SO YOU'RE SAYING FUCK LAWS!?" ....wut.... <quote> Let's just fuck everyone's rights because YOU are scared?</quote> I'm not scared because I'm not a schoolboy. I'm completely safe. I just care about all these bodies of innocent kids that keep piling up exclusively in America who you don't appear to give a shit about. So we'll just wait for the next batch of corpses in about 30 days or so.</quote> You do know that DC vs Heller ALSO said that banning semi-automatic weapons in and of itself is unconstitutional, right? Like, are you capable of rational discourse?</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
darkjedilink 02/24/18 7:04:00 PM #62:	Mr_Biscuit posted... Fair enough. As far as your particular situation is concerned, I don't see why armed security guards couldn't have access to a slightly higher grade of weapon than was just regularly available, though. It's not a catch-all (nothing is), but I'm pretty sure your average shooter isn't gonna go to the trouble of getting a job as armed security so he can get a deadlier weapon and THEN go nuts on everyone. As for the hobby aspect of it in general, to me, that kinda falls under "well... tough" when we're talking legislatively, considering there's still a wide variety of guns that people can have fun with and do target practice or whatever they want. I'm not unsympathetic to how that kinda sucks for people who enjoy it responsibly, but I don't think that should be the biggest consideration in these conversations if I'm being honest. Well, now you have to figure out a way to suggest 'you don't need it' would pass Constitutional muster, when it literally never has. --- 'It's okay that those gangbangers stole all my personal belongings and cash at gunpoint, cuz they're building a rec center!' - OneTimeBen <cite>darkjedilink posted [p:896702747] in ITT: A gun... [t:76353496]...</cite> <quote><cite>Mr_Biscuit posted...</cite> <quote>Fair enough. As far as your particular situation is concerned, I don't see why armed security guards couldn't have access to a slightly higher grade of weapon than was just regularly available, though. It's not a catch-all (nothing is), but I'm pretty sure your average shooter isn't gonna go to the trouble of getting a job as armed security so he can get a deadlier weapon and THEN go nuts on everyone. As for the hobby aspect of it in general, to me, that kinda falls under "well... tough" when we're talking legislatively, considering there's still a wide variety of guns that people can have fun with and do target practice or whatever they want. I'm not unsympathetic to how that kinda sucks for people who enjoy it responsibly, but I don't think that should be the biggest consideration in these conversations if I'm being honest.</quote> Well, now you have to figure out a way to suggest 'you don't need it' would pass Constitutional muster, when it literally never has.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Offworlder1 02/24/18 7:05:12 PM #63:	Well this has taken a turn, did not know about the DC vs Heller case. --- "Always two there are, a master and an apprentice" 3DS FC: 1564 - 7512 - 1815 <cite>Offworlder1 posted [p:896702808] in ITT: A gun... [t:76353496]...</cite> <quote>Well this has taken a turn, did not know about the DC vs Heller case.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Mr_Biscuit 02/24/18 7:12:43 PM #64:	I like how this topic has been two separate conversations happening in parallel, with one being pleasant discourse and one being typical hyper-aggressive yelling at each other for being bad people. --- https://www.bigplay.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/04/img_6703.jpg <cite>Mr_Biscuit posted [p:896703165] in ITT: A gun... [t:76353496]...</cite> <quote>I like how this topic has been two separate conversations happening in parallel, with one being pleasant discourse and one being typical hyper-aggressive yelling at each other for being bad people.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
UnfairRepresent 02/24/18 7:12:48 PM #65:	darkjedilink posted... You do know that DC vs Heller ALSO said that banning semi-automatic weapons in and of itself is unconstitutional, right? Not quite but sort of. They said (on a 5-4 mixed decision) that they didn't view certain weapons as dangerous or unusual and shot down (no pun intended) some regulations and some forms of gun control. Now we have a heap more knowledge and other nations to compare it too. That's up for review. The point is that the US Consitution despite it's poor wording is not saying that anyone can own any gun. It's saying most people can own certain guns. That is already the stance of the US Government and the only thing between the kind of gun laws all the other nations use to great success is the us population's attitudes. Not the Consitution. There is little reason why the court can't say "Yeah actually Semi-Automatic AR-15s are a bad idea to sell to people, also maybe we should stop lunatics from buying them." And if they did, that would not violate the Consitution. If you believe it would then you believe the US has already violated the Consitution. Either way, the argument is invalid. To my knowledge no attempt to outright ban all firearms in America is being taken seriously, even by liberals. However "Why don't we take these basic measures that will stop piling up corpses of kids" is being rejected for reasons that don't make sense upon inspection. darkjedilink posted... Like, are you capable of rational discourse? You say as you have ignored literally every single point raised in the topic and think just asking a random question to change the subject ASAP to some other nonsense is rational discourse. And you're going to do it again, you're going to go ignore the entire above post and just say something like "You do realize that Detroit has high gun crime!?" or something else irrelevant. --- ^ Hey now that's completely unfair. https://imgtc.com/i/14JHfrt.jpg <cite>UnfairRepresent posted [p:896703172] in ITT: A gun... [t:76353496]...</cite> <quote><cite>darkjedilink posted...</cite> <quote> You do know that DC vs Heller ALSO said that banning semi-automatic weapons in and of itself is unconstitutional, right?</quote> Not quite but sort of. They said (on a 5-4 mixed decision) that they didn't view certain weapons as dangerous or unusual and shot down (no pun intended) some regulations and some forms of gun control. Now we have a heap more knowledge and other nations to compare it too. That's up for review. The point is that the US Consitution despite it's poor wording is not saying that anyone can own any gun. It's saying most people can own certain guns. That is already the stance of the US Government and the only thing between the kind of gun laws all the other nations use to great success is the us population's attitudes. Not the Consitution. There is little reason why the court can't say "Yeah actually Semi-Automatic AR-15s are a bad idea to sell to people, also maybe we should stop lunatics from buying them." And if they did, that would not violate the Consitution. If you believe it would then you believe the US has already violated the Consitution. Either way, the argument is invalid. To my knowledge no attempt to outright ban all firearms in America is being taken seriously, even by liberals. However "Why don't we take these basic measures that will stop piling up corpses of kids" is being rejected for reasons that don't make sense upon inspection. <cite>darkjedilink posted...</cite> <quote> Like, are you capable of rational discourse?</quote> You say as you have ignored literally every single point raised in the topic and think just asking a random question to change the subject ASAP to some other nonsense is rational discourse. And you're going to do it again, you're going to go ignore the entire above post and just say something like "You do realize that Detroit has high gun crime!?" or something else irrelevant.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Questionmarktarius 02/24/18 7:13:46 PM #66:	UnfairRepresent posted... There is little reason why the court can't say "Yeah actually Semi-Automatic AR-15s are a bad idea to sell to people, also maybe we should stop lunatics from buying them." Then what happens when the next asshole just uses a Mini-14 instead? <cite>Questionmarktarius posted [p:896703220] in ITT: A gun... [t:76353496]...</cite> <quote><cite>UnfairRepresent posted...</cite> <quote>There is little reason why the court can't say "Yeah actually Semi-Automatic AR-15s are a bad idea to sell to people, also maybe we should stop lunatics from buying them."</quote> Then what happens when the next asshole just uses a Mini-14 instead?</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Offworlder1 02/24/18 7:18:19 PM #67:	@Mr_Biscuit Now that your on the other side(the educated arguement one) you can see how crazy it can get. Both sides are very passinate but without being educated or knowing what the hell your talking about it can get ugly fast. --- "Always two there are, a master and an apprentice" 3DS FC: 1564 - 7512 - 1815 <cite>Offworlder1 posted [p:896703405] in ITT: A gun... [t:76353496]...</cite> <quote>@Mr_Biscuit Now that your on the other side(the educated arguement one) you can see how crazy it can get. Both sides are very passinate but without being educated or knowing what the hell your talking about it can get ugly fast.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
P4wn4g3 02/24/18 7:20:06 PM #68:	I don't care much about the gun debate in general, but you guys realize that the "scary looking" thing is exactly the sort of appeal a mass shooters would be going for right? I mean, I'm going to guess there are some legal fully auto pistols and still yet they go through the trouble with ARs. So yeah you can hate the assault weapons thing, but the psychological component seems to be there regardless. Obviously that's not saying that people who like ARs happen to be more susceptible to mass shootings, nor does it mean you can't just walk into your grandma's house and steal hers. --- Hive Mind of Dark Aether, the unofficial Metroid Social Private board. https://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/851-dark-aether <cite>P4wn4g3 posted [p:896703507] in ITT: A gun... [t:76353496]...</cite> <quote>I don't care much about the gun debate in general, but you guys realize that the "scary looking" thing is exactly the sort of appeal a mass shooters would be going for right? I mean, I'm going to guess there are some legal fully auto pistols and still yet they go through the trouble with ARs. So yeah you can hate the assault weapons thing, but the psychological component seems to be there regardless. Obviously that's not saying that people who like ARs happen to be more susceptible to mass shootings, nor does it mean you can't just walk into your grandma's house and steal hers.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Dark_Spiret 02/24/18 7:23:26 PM #69:	theres the solution. <cite>Dark_Spiret posted [p:896703665] in ITT: A gun... [t:76353496]...</cite> <quote> theres the solution.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
iron jojo 02/24/18 7:23:43 PM #70:	I really have to applaud your effort to educate yourself TC. GJ. --- vickfan-chucky they hated Jesus homie chuckyhacks-who teh hell is "jesus homie" <cite>iron jojo posted [p:896703680] in ITT: A gun... [t:76353496]...</cite> <quote>I really have to applaud your effort to educate yourself TC. GJ.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Offworlder1 02/24/18 7:25:00 PM #71:	@P4wn4g3 To get a full auto pistol you need to have a class 3 license and have paid the $200 tax stamp. The alternative is modifying a weapon to be fully automatic but that takes some know how. The AR-15 is a common gun with high accuracy and is popular, many school shooters or nutcases just look for what is known to them. --- "Always two there are, a master and an apprentice" 3DS FC: 1564 - 7512 - 1815 <cite>Offworlder1 posted [p:896703756] in ITT: A gun... [t:76353496]...</cite> <quote>@P4wn4g3 To get a full auto pistol you need to have a class 3 license and have paid the $200 tax stamp. The alternative is modifying a weapon to be fully automatic but that takes some know how. The AR-15 is a common gun with high accuracy and is popular, many school shooters or nutcases just look for what is known to them.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
P4wn4g3 02/24/18 7:25:51 PM #72:	Dark_Spiret posted... theres the solution. right there. Now just make it mandatory. Anyway we have bombings as well but somehow less people get hurt with those and the government seems to be much better at being on top of those situations. shrug --- Hive Mind of Dark Aether, the unofficial Metroid Social Private board. https://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/851-dark-aether <cite>P4wn4g3 posted [p:896703797] in ITT: A gun... [t:76353496]...</cite> <quote><cite>Dark_Spiret posted...</cite> <quote> theres the solution. right there.</quote> Now just make it mandatory. Anyway we have bombings as well but somehow less people get hurt with those and the government seems to be much better at being on top of those situations. shrug</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
P4wn4g3 02/24/18 7:27:06 PM #73:	Offworlder1 posted... @P4wn4g3 To get a full auto pistol you need to have a class 3 license and have paid the $200 tax stamp. The alternative is modifying a weapon to be fully automatic but that takes some know how. The AR-15 is a common gun with high accuracy and is popular, many school shooters or nutcases just look for what is known to them. Yeah I mean, I'm not disagreeing. --- Hive Mind of Dark Aether, the unofficial Metroid Social Private board. https://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/851-dark-aether <cite>P4wn4g3 posted [p:896703860] in ITT: A gun... [t:76353496]...</cite> <quote><cite>Offworlder1 posted...</cite> <quote>@P4wn4g3 To get a full auto pistol you need to have a class 3 license and have paid the $200 tax stamp. The alternative is modifying a weapon to be fully automatic but that takes some know how. The AR-15 is a common gun with high accuracy and is popular, many school shooters or nutcases just look for what is known to them.</quote> Yeah I mean, I'm not disagreeing.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Offworlder1 02/24/18 7:27:23 PM #74:	@Dark_Spiret Not going to lie, it would be kinda funny as fuck in a very dark way to see someone running around with their Hello Kitty AR-15. --- "Always two there are, a master and an apprentice" 3DS FC: 1564 - 7512 - 1815 <cite>Offworlder1 posted [p:896703878] in ITT: A gun... [t:76353496]...</cite> <quote>@Dark_Spiret Not going to lie, it would be kinda funny as fuck in a very dark way to see someone running around with their Hello Kitty AR-15.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Questionmarktarius 02/24/18 7:28:02 PM #75:	Offworlder1 posted... Not going to lie, it would be kinda funny as fuck in a very dark way to see someone running around with their Hello Kitty AR-15. https://www.cnet.com/news/a-hello-kitty-assault-rifle-that-actually-exists/ <cite>Questionmarktarius posted [p:896703912] in ITT: A gun... [t:76353496]...</cite> <quote><cite>Offworlder1 posted...</cite> <quote>Not going to lie, it would be kinda funny as fuck in a very dark way to see someone running around with their Hello Kitty AR-15.</quote> https://www.cnet.com/news/a-hello-kitty-assault-rifle-that-actually-exists/</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
UnfairRepresent 02/24/18 7:28:10 PM #76:	Questionmarktarius posted... UnfairRepresent posted... There is little reason why the court can't say "Yeah actually Semi-Automatic AR-15s are a bad idea to sell to people, also maybe we should stop lunatics from buying them." Then what happens when the next asshole just uses a Mini-14 instead? Exactly the same as the AR-15. Ban the Semi-Autos and make them straight pulls. Straight Pull Mini-14s are legal in the UK, sane people own them and there are no mass shootings and it the Consitution would be upheld. If a lunatic in the US tried to do a shooting with a straight pull mini-14 it would be highly unlikely that they could take out 5 people before being stopped. Let alone 17. And the houses and stuff are all safe. And that's assuming we didn't bother to introduce the basic levels of liscence and explanation and references and criminal background checks etc that would stop said lunatic from getting a gun So.... What's the problem? --- ^ Hey now that's completely unfair. https://imgtc.com/i/14JHfrt.jpg <cite>UnfairRepresent posted [p:896703921] in ITT: A gun... [t:76353496]...</cite> <quote><cite>Questionmarktarius posted...</cite> <quote><cite>UnfairRepresent posted...</cite> <quote>There is little reason why the court can't say "Yeah actually Semi-Automatic AR-15s are a bad idea to sell to people, also maybe we should stop lunatics from buying them."</quote> Then what happens when the next asshole just uses a Mini-14 instead?</quote> Exactly the same as the AR-15. Ban the Semi-Autos and make them straight pulls. Straight Pull Mini-14s are legal in the UK, sane people own them and there are no mass shootings and it the Consitution would be upheld. If a lunatic in the US tried to do a shooting with a straight pull mini-14 it would be highly unlikely that they could take out 5 people before being stopped. Let alone 17. And the houses and stuff are all safe. And that's assuming we didn't bother to introduce the basic levels of liscence and explanation and references and criminal background checks etc that would stop said lunatic from getting a gun So.... What's the problem?</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Questionmarktarius 02/24/18 7:30:09 PM #77:	UnfairRepresent posted... Exactly the same as the AR-15. Ban the Semi-Autos and make them straight pulls. Then... back to handguns. Then... double-action revolvers. Then... slamfire shotguns. Then... single-action revolvers. Then... knives. Then... railguns? <cite>Questionmarktarius posted [p:896704038] in ITT: A gun... [t:76353496]...</cite> <quote><cite>UnfairRepresent posted...</cite> <quote>Exactly the same as the AR-15. Ban the Semi-Autos and make them straight pulls.</quote> Then... back to handguns. Then... double-action revolvers. Then... slamfire shotguns. Then... single-action revolvers. Then... knives. Then... railguns?</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Offworlder1 02/24/18 7:30:21 PM #78:	Getting a full auto pistol, class 3 license takes too long and is way too expensive for most nutcases. An AR-15 is in almost every gun shop in the USA, and much cheaper then full auto anything. @P4wn4g3 --- "Always two there are, a master and an apprentice" 3DS FC: 1564 - 7512 - 1815 <cite>Offworlder1 posted [p:896704052] in ITT: A gun... [t:76353496]...</cite> <quote>Getting a full auto pistol, class 3 license takes too long and is way too expensive for most nutcases. An AR-15 is in almost every gun shop in the USA, and much cheaper then full auto anything. @P4wn4g3</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Offworlder1 02/24/18 7:35:04 PM #79:	@UnfairRepresent Those straight pull AR-15s and Ruger mini 14s are a fucking joke, that shit is a horrible home defense weapon, hell its worse then a regular bolt action cause it is literally a fucking gimped firearm. To suggest those as being viable to defend a home is not only laughable but anyone who bought one for home defense is stupid as fuck, I would not trust that fucking garbage with my life let alone the lives of my loved ones. --- "Always two there are, a master and an apprentice" 3DS FC: 1564 - 7512 - 1815 <cite>Offworlder1 posted [p:896704244] in ITT: A gun... [t:76353496]...</cite> <quote>@UnfairRepresent Those straight pull AR-15s and Ruger mini 14s are a fucking joke, that shit is a horrible home defense weapon, hell its worse then a regular bolt action cause it is literally a fucking gimped firearm. To suggest those as being viable to defend a home is not only laughable but anyone who bought one for home defense is stupid as fuck, I would not trust that fucking garbage with my life let alone the lives of my loved ones.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
UnfairRepresent 02/24/18 7:37:31 PM #80:	Questionmarktarius posted... UnfairRepresent posted... Exactly the same as the AR-15. Ban the Semi-Autos and make them straight pulls. Then... back to handguns. Then... double-action revolvers. Then... slamfire shotguns. Then... single-action revolvers. Then... knives. Slippery slope falacy. But even so, cool so Shotguns and straight pull rifles? Sounds like farming, hunting and self-defense covered to me. Again you need to actually come up with an argument. You haven't responsed to a point or explained why anything that works wonders everywhere else in the world can't work in the US. Right now the entire argument seems to be "We can't do that because I don't like it." and considering that logic means large amounts of kids dying all the time every year for no reason, you can understand why hostility is brewing. The only time I've ever heard of semi-automatics or full on automatics being useful for a civilian were to protect homes or stores during full riots where it was effective in scaring off mobs of looters. I've never heard the story of "19 men broke into my house but thanks to my trusty AR-15 I shot them all. If I just had a straight pull I could only get 4 and then the rest would have raped and robbed me." Its just not real life. It just comes back to "Well I like those guns so It's okay if kids keep dying." --- ^ Hey now that's completely unfair. https://imgtc.com/i/14JHfrt.jpg <cite>UnfairRepresent posted [p:896704384] in ITT: A gun... [t:76353496]...</cite> <quote><cite>Questionmarktarius posted...</cite> <quote><cite>UnfairRepresent posted...</cite> <quote>Exactly the same as the AR-15. Ban the Semi-Autos and make them straight pulls.</quote> Then... back to handguns. Then... double-action revolvers. Then... slamfire shotguns. Then... single-action revolvers. Then... knives.</quote> Slippery slope falacy. But even so, cool so Shotguns and straight pull rifles? Sounds like farming, hunting and self-defense covered to me. Again you need to actually come up with an argument. You haven't responsed to a point or explained why anything that works wonders everywhere else in the world can't work in the US. Right now the entire argument seems to be "We can't do that because I don't like it." and considering that logic means large amounts of kids dying all the time every year for no reason, you can understand why hostility is brewing. The only time I've ever heard of semi-automatics or full on automatics being useful for a civilian were to protect homes or stores during full riots where it was effective in scaring off mobs of looters. I've never heard the story of "19 men broke into my house but thanks to my trusty AR-15 I shot them all. If I just had a straight pull I could only get 4 and then the rest would have raped and robbed me." Its just not real life. It just comes back to "Well I like those guns so It's okay if kids keep dying."</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Questionmarktarius 02/24/18 7:39:20 PM #81:	UnfairRepresent posted... Right now the entire argument seems to be "We can't do that because I don't like it." and considering that logic means large amounts of kids dying all the time every year for no reason, you can understand why hostility is brewing. We can do it, but nobody seems to want to outside of judicial fiat. https://www.usconstitution.net/xconst_A5.html <cite>Questionmarktarius posted [p:896704482] in ITT: A gun... [t:76353496]...</cite> <quote><cite>UnfairRepresent posted...</cite> <quote>Right now the entire argument seems to be "We can't do that because I don't like it." and considering that logic means large amounts of kids dying all the time every year for no reason, you can understand why hostility is brewing.</quote> We can do it, but nobody seems to want to outside of judicial fiat. https://www.usconstitution.net/xconst_A5.html</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
UnfairRepresent 02/24/18 7:41:09 PM #82:	Offworlder1 posted... @UnfairRepresent Those straight pull AR-15s and Ruger mini 14s are a fucking joke, that shit is a horrible home defense weapon, hell its worse then a regular bolt action cause it is literally a fucking gimped firearm. To suggest those as being viable to defend a home is not only laughable but anyone who bought one for home defense is stupid as fuck, I would not trust that fucking garbage with my life let alone the lives of my loved ones. Cool So how come the homes without semi-auto AR-15s in the UK or Canada aren't being robbed round the clock and why aren't they having constant shootings in their schools? But who cares about that when you enjoy having cooler guns. Those cooler guns are well worth those graveyards full of dead schoolboys. But I'm glad we've moved on from "Okay sure it's not about the Consitution, I just hate the lamer guns." I appreciate the honesty. --- ^ Hey now that's completely unfair. https://imgtc.com/i/14JHfrt.jpg <cite>UnfairRepresent posted [p:896704573] in ITT: A gun... [t:76353496]...</cite> <quote><cite>Offworlder1 posted...</cite> <quote>@UnfairRepresent Those straight pull AR-15s and Ruger mini 14s are a fucking joke, that shit is a horrible home defense weapon, hell its worse then a regular bolt action cause it is literally a fucking gimped firearm. To suggest those as being viable to defend a home is not only laughable but anyone who bought one for home defense is stupid as fuck, I would not trust that fucking garbage with my life let alone the lives of my loved ones.</quote> Cool So how come the homes without semi-auto AR-15s in the UK or Canada aren't being robbed round the clock and why aren't they having constant shootings in their schools? But who cares about that when you enjoy having cooler guns. Those cooler guns are well worth those graveyards full of dead schoolboys. But I'm glad we've moved on from "Okay sure it's not about the Consitution, I just hate the lamer guns." I appreciate the honesty.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
UnfairRepresent 02/24/18 7:43:05 PM #83:	Questionmarktarius posted... UnfairRepresent posted... Right now the entire argument seems to be "We can't do that because I don't like it." and considering that logic means large amounts of kids dying all the time every year for no reason, you can understand why hostility is brewing. We can do it, but nobody seems to want to outside of judicial fiat. https://www.usconstitution.net/xconst_A5.html Wut, You don't need to amend the Consitution to do anything that has been proposed that I am aware of. You seem to be conflating "Common sense gun control ideas with proven ironclad track records and logic" with "Banning all guns ever" --- ^ Hey now that's completely unfair. https://imgtc.com/i/14JHfrt.jpg <cite>UnfairRepresent posted [p:896704669] in ITT: A gun... [t:76353496]...</cite> <quote><cite>Questionmarktarius posted...</cite> <quote><cite>UnfairRepresent posted...</cite> <quote>Right now the entire argument seems to be "We can't do that because I don't like it." and considering that logic means large amounts of kids dying all the time every year for no reason, you can understand why hostility is brewing.</quote> We can do it, but nobody seems to want to outside of judicial fiat. https://www.usconstitution.net/xconst_A5.html</quote> Wut, You don't need to amend the Consitution to do anything that has been proposed that I am aware of. You seem to be conflating "Common sense gun control ideas with proven ironclad track records and logic" with "Banning all guns ever"</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Mr_Biscuit 02/24/18 7:48:09 PM #84:	Offworlder1 posted... Now that your on the other side(the educated arguement one) you can see how crazy it can get. Both sides are very passinate but without being educated or knowing what the hell your talking about it can get ugly fast. iron jojo posted... I really have to applaud your effort to educate yourself TC. GJ. Thanks, gents. I definitely do feel like I learned a ton without my stance actually changing much. But man, there sure is a lot more of an intelligent discourse to be had when you've got actual terms and knowledge to back you up rather than "I feel this, address whatever is making me feel this" --- https://www.bigplay.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/04/img_6703.jpg <cite>Mr_Biscuit posted [p:896704940] in ITT: A gun... [t:76353496]...</cite> <quote><cite>Offworlder1 posted...</cite> <quote> Now that your on the other side(the educated arguement one) you can see how crazy it can get. Both sides are very passinate but without being educated or knowing what the hell your talking about it can get ugly fast.</quote> <cite>iron jojo posted...</cite> <quote>I really have to applaud your effort to educate yourself TC. GJ.</quote> Thanks, gents. I definitely do feel like I learned a ton without my stance actually changing much. But man, there sure is a lot more of an intelligent discourse to be had when you've got actual terms and knowledge to back you up rather than "I feel this, address whatever is making me feel this"</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
UnfairRepresent 02/24/18 7:49:43 PM #85:	Mr_Biscuit posted... I definitely do feel like I learned a ton without my stance actually changing much. But man, there sure is a lot more of an intelligent discourse to be had when you've got actual terms and knowledge to back you up rather than "I feel this, address whatever is making me feel this" For sure. I think lack of communication is one of the biggest issues in the gun debate. Then again I suppose when is lack of communication not a problem. --- ^ Hey now that's completely unfair. https://imgtc.com/i/14JHfrt.jpg <cite>UnfairRepresent posted [p:896705018] in ITT: A gun... [t:76353496]...</cite> <quote><cite>Mr_Biscuit posted...</cite> <quote> I definitely do feel like I learned a ton without my stance actually changing much. But man, there sure is a lot more of an intelligent discourse to be had when you've got actual terms and knowledge to back you up rather than "I feel this, address whatever is making me feel this"</quote> For sure. I think lack of communication is one of the biggest issues in the gun debate. Then again I suppose when is lack of communication not a problem.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
KamenRiderBlade 02/24/18 7:50:19 PM #86:	UnfairRepresent posted... I've never heard the story of "19 men broke into my house but thanks to my trusty AR-15 I shot them all. If I just had a straight pull I could only get 4 and then the rest would have raped and robbed me." Its just not real life. https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/oklahoma-man-uses-ar-15-kill-three-teen-home-intruders-n739541 https://nypost.com/2017/03/28/homeowners-son-kills-three-would-be-burglars-with-ar-15/ http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2016/06/dean-weingarten/child-ak47-defends-home-armed-invader/ http://therightscoop.com/15-year-old-defends-home-against-burglars-shoots-one-of-them-with-fathers-ar-15/ http://www.news9.com/story/19858704/12-year-old-girl-shoots-intruder-during-home-invasion --- Are you a MexiCAN or a MexiCAN'T - Johnny Depp '*Once Upon A Time in Mexico*' <cite>KamenRiderBlade posted [p:896705042] in ITT: A gun... [t:76353496]...</cite> <quote><cite>UnfairRepresent posted...</cite> <quote>I've never heard the story of "19 men broke into my house but thanks to my trusty AR-15 I shot them all. If I just had a straight pull I could only get 4 and then the rest would have raped and robbed me." Its just not real life.</quote> https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/oklahoma-man-uses-ar-15-kill-three-teen-home-intruders-n739541 https://nypost.com/2017/03/28/homeowners-son-kills-three-would-be-burglars-with-ar-15/ http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2016/06/dean-weingarten/child-ak47-defends-home-armed-invader/ http://therightscoop.com/15-year-old-defends-home-against-burglars-shoots-one-of-them-with-fathers-ar-15/ http://www.news9.com/story/19858704/12-year-old-girl-shoots-intruder-during-home-invasion</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Tropicalwood 02/24/18 7:50:53 PM #87:	UnfairRepresent posted... Offworlder1 posted... @UnfairRepresent Those straight pull AR-15s and Ruger mini 14s are a fucking joke, that shit is a horrible home defense weapon, hell its worse then a regular bolt action cause it is literally a fucking gimped firearm. To suggest those as being viable to defend a home is not only laughable but anyone who bought one for home defense is stupid as fuck, I would not trust that fucking garbage with my life let alone the lives of my loved ones. Cool So how come the homes without semi-auto AR-15s in the UK or Canada aren't being robbed round the clock and why aren't they having constant shootings in their schools? But who cares about that when you enjoy having cooler guns. Those cooler guns are well worth those graveyards full of dead schoolboys. But I'm glad we've moved on from "Okay sure it's not about the Consitution, I just hate the lamer guns." I appreciate the honesty. The UK has always been about bombs going off in the city and they're subbed for knives and plowing trucks into people anyways. Their reasons for regulating them heavily in the first place were the same reason they weren't allowing metal farming tools, because someone killed royalty with them and now the commoners can't have them. --- ayy lmao ayy lmao \|\| oaml oaml yya yya ayy lmao ayy lmao \|\| oaml oaml yya yya <cite>Tropicalwood posted [p:896705067] in ITT: A gun... [t:76353496]...</cite> <quote><cite>UnfairRepresent posted...</cite> <quote><cite>Offworlder1 posted...</cite> <quote>@UnfairRepresent Those straight pull AR-15s and Ruger mini 14s are a fucking joke, that shit is a horrible home defense weapon, hell its worse then a regular bolt action cause it is literally a fucking gimped firearm. To suggest those as being viable to defend a home is not only laughable but anyone who bought one for home defense is stupid as fuck, I would not trust that fucking garbage with my life let alone the lives of my loved ones.</quote> Cool So how come the homes without semi-auto AR-15s in the UK or Canada aren't being robbed round the clock and why aren't they having constant shootings in their schools? But who cares about that when you enjoy having cooler guns. Those cooler guns are well worth those graveyards full of dead schoolboys. But I'm glad we've moved on from "Okay sure it's not about the Consitution, I just hate the lamer guns." I appreciate the honesty.</quote> The UK has always been about bombs going off in the city and they're subbed for knives and plowing trucks into people anyways. Their reasons for regulating them heavily in the first place were the same reason they weren't allowing metal farming tools, because someone killed royalty with them and now the commoners can't have them.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Offworlder1 02/24/18 7:53:22 PM #88:	@UnfairRepresent So your now pretending that the UK does not have a high rate of violent crimes, looting, and muggings. Why break into a home when you can rob a person as they come out of their house which happens a lot in the UK. Its also about having guns that function as they are suppose to, an AR-15 is a civillian gun not meant to be burst fire or automatic. Your straight pull AR-15s and mini 14s are not functioning as they were designed to, they are literally fucked with to be less efficient at their job, they are designed as semi automatics not to function like a bolt action. These guns have been around for over 30 years and it was only in the 90s and 2000s you had this explosion of schoo shooters and nutcases. Based on that its pretty fucking clear it is not the gun at fault but something going on with the people and mental health. --- "Always two there are, a master and an apprentice" 3DS FC: 1564 - 7512 - 1815 <cite>Offworlder1 posted [p:896705185] in ITT: A gun... [t:76353496]...</cite> <quote>@UnfairRepresent So your now pretending that the UK does not have a high rate of violent crimes, looting, and muggings. Why break into a home when you can rob a person as they come out of their house which happens a lot in the UK. Its also about having guns that function as they are suppose to, an AR-15 is a civillian gun not meant to be burst fire or automatic. Your straight pull AR-15s and mini 14s are not functioning as they were designed to, they are literally fucked with to be less efficient at their job, they are designed as semi automatics not to function like a bolt action. These guns have been around for over 30 years and it was only in the 90s and 2000s you had this explosion of schoo shooters and nutcases. Based on that its pretty fucking clear it is not the gun at fault but something going on with the people and mental health.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
UnfairRepresent 02/24/18 7:54:54 PM #89:	Tropicalwood posted... The UK has always been about bombs going off in the city and they're subbed for knives and plowing trucks into people anyways. Their reasons for regulating them heavily in the first place were the same reason they weren't allowing metal farming tools, because someone killed royalty with them and now the commoners can't have them. UnfairRepresent posted... You say as you have ignored literally every single point raised in the topic and think just asking a random question to change the subject ASAP to some other nonsense is rational discourse. And you're going to do it again, you're going to go ignore the entire above post and just say something like "You do realize that Detroit has high gun crime!?" or something else irrelevant. Called it. When you have no valid counter, just change the subject. If you don't address a point that means you've defeated it somehow. KamenRiderBlade posted... https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/oklahoma-man-uses-ar-15-kill-three-teen-home-intruders-n739541 https://nypost.com/2017/03/28/homeowners-son-kills-three-would-be-burglars-with-ar-15/ http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2016/06/dean-weingarten/child-ak47-defends-home-armed-invader/ http://therightscoop.com/15-year-old-defends-home-against-burglars-shoots-one-of-them-with-fathers-ar-15/ http://www.news9.com/story/19858704/12-year-old-girl-shoots-intruder-during-home-invasion Ok thats some lovely stories about people being shot. It's not really relevant to why those guns had to be semi-automatic AR15s tho. Which was the point. --- ^ Hey now that's completely unfair. https://imgtc.com/i/14JHfrt.jpg <cite>UnfairRepresent posted [p:896705261] in ITT: A gun... [t:76353496]...</cite> <quote><cite>Tropicalwood posted...</cite> <quote> The UK has always been about bombs going off in the city and they're subbed for knives and plowing trucks into people anyways. Their reasons for regulating them heavily in the first place were the same reason they weren't allowing metal farming tools, because someone killed royalty with them and now the commoners can't have them.</quote> <cite>UnfairRepresent posted...</cite> <quote> You say as you have ignored literally every single point raised in the topic and think just asking a random question to change the subject ASAP to some other nonsense is rational discourse. And you're going to do it again, you're going to go ignore the entire above post and just say something like "You do realize that Detroit has high gun crime!?" or something else irrelevant.</quote> Called it. When you have no valid counter, just change the subject. If you don't address a point that means you've defeated it somehow. <cite>KamenRiderBlade posted...</cite> <quote> https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/oklahoma-man-uses-ar-15-kill-three-teen-home-intruders-n739541 https://nypost.com/2017/03/28/homeowners-son-kills-three-would-be-burglars-with-ar-15/ http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2016/06/dean-weingarten/child-ak47-defends-home-armed-invader/ http://therightscoop.com/15-year-old-defends-home-against-burglars-shoots-one-of-them-with-fathers-ar-15/ http://www.news9.com/story/19858704/12-year-old-girl-shoots-intruder-during-home-invasion</quote> Ok thats some lovely stories about people being shot. It's not really relevant to why those guns had to be semi-automatic AR15s tho. Which was the point.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
KamenRiderBlade 02/24/18 7:54:54 PM #90:	http://www.apa.org/news/press/releases/2016/08/media-contagion.aspx --- Are you a MexiCAN or a MexiCAN'T - Johnny Depp '*Once Upon A Time in Mexico*' <cite>KamenRiderBlade posted [p:896705263] in ITT: A gun... [t:76353496]...</cite> <quote>http://www.apa.org/news/press/releases/2016/08/media-contagion.aspx</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Dark_Spiret 02/24/18 7:57:54 PM #91:	Offworlder1 posted... These guns have been around for over 30 years and it was only in the 90s and 2000s you had this explosion of schoo shooters and nutcases. Based on that its pretty fucking clear it is not the gun at fualt but something going on with the people and mental health. the internet, 24/7 news and social media are trying to kill us. <cite>Dark_Spiret posted [p:896705397] in ITT: A gun... [t:76353496]...</cite> <quote><cite>Offworlder1 posted...</cite> <quote>These guns have been around for over 30 years and it was only in the 90s and 2000s you had this explosion of schoo shooters and nutcases. Based on that its pretty fucking clear it is not the gun at fualt but something going on with the people and mental health.</quote>the internet, 24/7 news and social media are trying to kill us.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Offworlder1 02/24/18 7:58:01 PM #92:	@KamenRiderBlade I was waiting for someone to search for all those instances where people, specifically kids defended the home with Dad/Moms AR-15. Love the one where the older brother kept his sibling safe and opperated the gun safely and effectively. --- "Always two there are, a master and an apprentice" 3DS FC: 1564 - 7512 - 1815 <cite>Offworlder1 posted [p:896705403] in ITT: A gun... [t:76353496]...</cite> <quote>@KamenRiderBlade I was waiting for someone to search for all those instances where people, specifically kids defended the home with Dad/Moms AR-15. Love the one where the older brother kept his sibling safe and opperated the gun safely and effectively.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Tropicalwood 02/24/18 7:58:49 PM #93:	UnfairRepresent posted... When you have no valid counter, just change the subject. If you don't address a point that means you've defeated it somehow. When you're subbing getting holes put through you for a good ol' truck of peace ripping your body in half and more violent crimes in general, you really aren't making an improvement outside of making it easier to subjugate the people you don't like. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internment_of_Japanese_Americans But not like you care, all you care about is one tool being used because you know if you ever somehow came into power, you would want to rule with an iron fist. --- ayy lmao ayy lmao \|\| oaml oaml yya yya ayy lmao ayy lmao \|\| oaml oaml yya yya <cite>Tropicalwood posted [p:896705444] in ITT: A gun... [t:76353496]...</cite> <quote><cite>UnfairRepresent posted...</cite> <quote>When you have no valid counter, just change the subject. If you don't address a point that means you've defeated it somehow.</quote> When you're subbing getting holes put through you for a good ol' truck of peace ripping your body in half and more violent crimes in general, you really aren't making an improvement outside of making it easier to subjugate the people you don't like. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internment_of_Japanese_Americans But not like you care, all you care about is one tool being used because you know if you ever somehow came into power, you would want to rule with an iron fist.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Cosmic_Diabetic 02/24/18 8:02:31 PM #94:	My views on gun control are this. I think if you wish to own a pistol they shouldn't be allowed outside of the home. If you want home self-defense that's fine but you can't be doing home self-defense when you're not home so you don't need it other places. The penalty for catching people with a pistol outside the home should be severe like felony not misdemeanor. Also 15 round magazines which is the most common is way too much. Revolvers should easily do the trick. If you can't take down a home invader in six even if you had more rounds you're probably going to get shot back before you'd empty the clip.... Bolt-actions are really the only hunting rifle you need. If you want to go quail hunting you can use double barrels. You do not need to fire more than two shots and if you can't catch things like quail in two then you aren't good enough to be handling a gun in the first place. Neither of these guns are physically capable of killing like 25 people in the span of fewer than 5 minutes which is what happened in Sandy Hook. They also take more time and finesse to aim and these shooters tend to be very inexperienced scrawny pale kids who would struggle much more using these longer weapons to do their shootings with. For those of you saying gun bans don't work I'm curious what your proof is. The vast majority of countries that have outlawed guns have had a significant reduction in shootings. It took the guns out of the bad guy's hands just as much as they did the good guys. As Florida has shown arming adults on schools will not do anything and these were cops. Imagine how poorly a teacher who's main skill is not firing a gun would handle such a situation. Also the whole just shaming gun control advocates seems to only make sure nothing happens and the status quo of dying kids stays the same which is very cowardly. As someone who is an advocate for the 2nd amendment in general it's ridiculous people think the current gun regulations are ok. These gun nuts are just holding onto the confusion between assault rifles and AR's and think the misunderstanding between the two somehow magically leads to the conclusion that AR's should be allowed in civilian hands. --- Others find humanity by looking in their own hearts. Only lost souls need to search for it outside themselves." <cite>Cosmic_Diabetic posted [p:896705646] in ITT: A gun... [t:76353496]...</cite> <quote>My views on gun control are this. I think if you wish to own a pistol they shouldn't be allowed outside of the home. If you want home self-defense that's fine but you can't be doing home self-defense when you're not home so you don't need it other places. The penalty for catching people with a pistol outside the home should be severe like felony not misdemeanor. Also 15 round magazines which is the most common is way too much. Revolvers should easily do the trick. If you can't take down a home invader in six even if you had more rounds you're probably going to get shot back before you'd empty the clip.... Bolt-actions are really the only hunting rifle you need. If you want to go quail hunting you can use double barrels. You do not need to fire more than two shots and if you can't catch things like quail in two then you aren't good enough to be handling a gun in the first place. Neither of these guns are physically capable of killing like 25 people in the span of fewer than 5 minutes which is what happened in Sandy Hook. They also take more time and finesse to aim and these shooters tend to be very inexperienced scrawny pale kids who would struggle much more using these longer weapons to do their shootings with. For those of you saying gun bans don't work I'm curious what your proof is. The vast majority of countries that have outlawed guns have had a significant reduction in shootings. It took the guns out of the bad guy's hands just as much as they did the good guys. As Florida has shown arming adults on schools will not do anything and these were cops. Imagine how poorly a teacher who's main skill is not firing a gun would handle such a situation. Also the whole just shaming gun control advocates seems to only make sure nothing happens and the status quo of dying kids stays the same which is very cowardly. As someone who is an advocate for the 2nd amendment in general it's ridiculous people think the current gun regulations are ok. These gun nuts are just holding onto the confusion between assault rifles and AR's and think the misunderstanding between the two somehow magically leads to the conclusion that AR's should be allowed in civilian hands.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
UnfairRepresent 02/24/18 8:03:08 PM #95:	Offworlder1 posted... So your now pretending that the UK does not have a high rate of violent crimes, looting, and muggings. Why break into a home when you can rob a person as they come out of their house which happens a lot in the UK. lol you clearly don't know me very well. I talk about the UK's knife crime epidiemic all the time. So much so that the UK users here hate me. But that's not relevant to the discussion. It's an evasion and a weak one. Your straight pull AR-15s and mini 14s are not functioning as they were designed to, they are literally fucked with to be less efficient at their job Yup. That's the point. So you know, it's hard to massacre a bunch of kids but yet if you still want a gun that "looks cool" you can and if you still want a gun to hunt or protect your farm or protect your home there's a market for them. Best of both worlds. These guns have been around for over 30 years and it was only in the 90s and 2000s you had this explosion of schoo shooters and nutcases. Based on that its pretty fucking clear it is not the gun at fualt but something going on with the people and mental health. Half truth. The US has always had a gun violence problem and while it's true that mass shootings are on the rise to pretend lunatics with guns arouse the same time Biker Mice From Mars did is dishonest. Second to that, it's a bad scapegoat. "Well mental health, and energy drinks and media and video games." is not an argument for not having gun laws. Especially when one of the problems is these mentally ill nutjobs are getting there hands on guns and shooting up shools. Of course the "Gun" isn't at fault. The "Nuke" wasn't at fault when we bombed Hiroshima. The problem is the ease in which nutcases who are at fault can acquire the gun and massacre people. Meanwhile why does "Mental health" not effect the UK, Japan, Canada, Australia etc. Never forget the UK's gun laws were in response to a mass shooting. Maybe if the US did the same thing in the 90s we wouldn't have had your 25 years of mass shootings. Christ I'd say the US has saner people in it than Australia does and I think any aussie on this site would agree wholeheartedly. You're grasping at straws and you know it. If this was something you didn't like as opposed to something you love, you would not be accepting these weak deflections. --- ^ Hey now that's completely unfair. https://imgtc.com/i/14JHfrt.jpg <cite>UnfairRepresent posted [p:896705670] in ITT: A gun... [t:76353496]...</cite> <quote><cite>Offworlder1 posted...</cite> <quote> So your now pretending that the UK does not have a high rate of violent crimes, looting, and muggings. Why break into a home when you can rob a person as they come out of their house which happens a lot in the UK.</quote> lol you clearly don't know me very well. I talk about the UK's knife crime epidiemic all the time. So much so that the UK users here hate me. But that's not relevant to the discussion. It's an evasion and a weak one. <quote>Your straight pull AR-15s and mini 14s are not functioning as they were designed to, they are literally fucked with to be less efficient at their job</quote> Yup. That's the point. So you know, it's hard to massacre a bunch of kids but yet if you still want a gun that "looks cool" you can and if you still want a gun to hunt or protect your farm or protect your home there's a market for them. Best of both worlds. <quote>These guns have been around for over 30 years and it was only in the 90s and 2000s you had this explosion of schoo shooters and nutcases. Based on that its pretty fucking clear it is not the gun at fualt but something going on with the people and mental health.</quote> Half truth. The US has always had a gun violence problem and while it's true that mass shootings are on the rise to pretend lunatics with guns arouse the same time Biker Mice From Mars did is dishonest. Second to that, it's a bad scapegoat. "Well mental health, and energy drinks and media and video games." is not an argument for not having gun laws. Especially when one of the problems is these mentally ill nutjobs are getting there hands on guns and shooting up shools. Of course the "Gun" isn't at fault. The "Nuke" wasn't at fault when we bombed Hiroshima. The problem is the ease in which nutcases who are at fault can acquire the gun and massacre people. Meanwhile why does "Mental health" not effect the UK, Japan, Canada, Australia etc. Never forget the UK's gun laws were in response to a mass shooting. Maybe if the US did the same thing in the 90s we wouldn't have had your 25 years of mass shootings. Christ I'd say the US has saner people in it than Australia does and I think any aussie on this site would agree wholeheartedly. You're grasping at straws and you know it. If this was something you didn't like as opposed to something you love, you would not be accepting these weak deflections.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Questionmarktarius 02/24/18 8:04:21 PM #96:	UnfairRepresent posted... You don't need to amend the Consitution to do anything that has been proposed that I am aware of. And what makes you think any of it would stand up to a constitutional challenge? <cite>Questionmarktarius posted [p:896705729] in ITT: A gun... [t:76353496]...</cite> <quote><cite>UnfairRepresent posted...</cite> <quote>You don't need to amend the Consitution to do anything that has been proposed that I am aware of.</quote> And what makes you think any of it would stand up to a constitutional challenge?</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Offworlder1 02/24/18 8:05:40 PM #97:	@UnfairRepresent All those times people used an AR-15 for home defense specifically kids is important to note because that rifle is much easier for a child to safely use vs a pistol or shotgun. Those kids might be good pistol or shotgun shooters but the point is the AR-15 does NOT have high or strong recoil, it is easier to control, and is more accurate. Those kids especially hold merit considering how no one but the invader was harmed. --- "Always two there are, a master and an apprentice" 3DS FC: 1564 - 7512 - 1815 <cite>Offworlder1 posted [p:896705783] in ITT: A gun... [t:76353496]...</cite> <quote>@UnfairRepresent All those times people used an AR-15 for home defense specifically kids is important to note because that rifle is much easier for a child to safely use vs a pistol or shotgun. Those kids might be good pistol or shotgun shooters but the point is the AR-15 does NOT have high or strong recoil, it is easier to control, and is more accurate. Those kids especially hold merit considering how no one but the invader was harmed.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
UnfairRepresent 02/24/18 8:07:36 PM #98:	Cosmic_Diabetic posted... For those of you saying gun bans don't work I'm curious what your proof is. The vast majority of countries that have outlawed guns have had a significant reduction in shootings. It took the guns out of the bad guy's hands just as much as they did the good guys. The argument is that in some cases there has been an increase in violent crime after banning guns. Meanwhile Switzerland has some of the loosest gun laws on the planet and yet is one of the safest nations in the world. As mentioned the UK has the worst knife-crime rate in the world. Pro-guners like to argue that this is because they don't have handguns, so they stab each other. Japan has the highest suicide rate in the world. Pro-gunners like to argue that the lack of guns makes them want to kill themselves ... for some reason. Etc etc It's a pretty weak argument but it's a cathartic one when you have no actual rebuttal to effective gun control propositions. --- ^ Hey now that's completely unfair. https://imgtc.com/i/14JHfrt.jpg <cite>UnfairRepresent posted [p:896705881] in ITT: A gun... [t:76353496]...</cite> <quote><cite>Cosmic_Diabetic posted...</cite> <quote> For those of you saying gun bans don't work I'm curious what your proof is. The vast majority of countries that have outlawed guns have had a significant reduction in shootings. It took the guns out of the bad guy's hands just as much as they did the good guys.</quote> The argument is that in some cases there has been an increase in violent crime after banning guns. Meanwhile Switzerland has some of the loosest gun laws on the planet and yet is one of the safest nations in the world. As mentioned the UK has the worst knife-crime rate in the world. Pro-guners like to argue that this is because they don't have handguns, so they stab each other. Japan has the highest suicide rate in the world. Pro-gunners like to argue that the lack of guns makes them want to kill themselves ... for some reason. Etc etc It's a pretty weak argument but it's a cathartic one when you have no actual rebuttal to effective gun control propositions.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Tropicalwood 02/24/18 8:09:28 PM #99:	Offworlder1 posted... These guns have been around for over 30 years and it was only in the 90s and 2000s you had this explosion of schoo shooters and nutcases. Based on that its pretty fucking clear it is not the gun at fault but something going on with the people and mental health. The difference between today and yesterday is awful parenting and social media, that's what enables these little brats to bully other students into suicide, murder or seclusion. --- ayy lmao ayy lmao \|\| oaml oaml yya yya ayy lmao ayy lmao \|\| oaml oaml yya yya <cite>Tropicalwood posted [p:896705972] in ITT: A gun... [t:76353496]...</cite> <quote><cite>Offworlder1 posted...</cite> <quote>These guns have been around for over 30 years and it was only in the 90s and 2000s you had this explosion of schoo shooters and nutcases. Based on that its pretty fucking clear it is not the gun at fault but something going on with the people and mental health.</quote> The difference between today and yesterday is awful parenting and social media, that's what enables these little brats to bully other students into suicide, murder or seclusion.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
UnfairRepresent 02/24/18 8:13:53 PM #100:	Questionmarktarius posted... UnfairRepresent posted... You don't need to amend the Consitution to do anything that has been proposed that I am aware of. And what makes you think any of it would stand up to a constitutional challenge? Erm. The fact it already has and there is precedent? Literally the only thing standing between the US and the style of gun control in the UK/Canada etc is popular opinion. Not the Consitution. The US government already recongizes that the right to bear arms is not universial and dangerous weapons do not apply, plus certain people (such as criminals, children and nutcases) don't apply. Only reason things like Semi-automatics aren't included is because most of the population doesn't care about the issue and of those that do care, most of them want to keep their cool guns even at the cost of kids lives. The Consitution is not the trump card (no pun intended) you believe it is. Offworlder1 posted... @UnfairRepresent All those times people used an AR-15 for home defense specifically kids is important to note because that rifle is much easier for a child to safely use vs a pistol or shotgun. Those kids might be good pistol or shotgun shooters but the point is the AR-15 does NOT have high or strong recoil, it is easier to control, and is more accurate. Those kids especially hold merit considering how no one but the invader was harmed. That's neat I guess but I don't think it's a strong argument. If you want to you can add it alongside "Owning a store during a mass riot" as the incredibly rare scenarios where one might come in handy. "If 3 men burst into a home and there's only kids it might be slightly easier to aim + fire than some other rifles." I'd say those two combined are a 3 of clubs in terms of pro not having basic gun control ideas in effect arguments. Against Four of a kind Jacks against --- ^ Hey now that's completely unfair. https://imgtc.com/i/14JHfrt.jpg <cite>UnfairRepresent posted [p:896706177] in ITT: A gun... [t:76353496]...</cite> <quote><cite>Questionmarktarius posted...</cite> <quote><cite>UnfairRepresent posted...</cite> <quote>You don't need to amend the Consitution to do anything that has been proposed that I am aware of.</quote> And what makes you think any of it would stand up to a constitutional challenge?</quote> Erm. The fact it already has and there is precedent? Literally the only thing standing between the US and the style of gun control in the UK/Canada etc is popular opinion. Not the Consitution. The US government already recongizes that the right to bear arms is not universial and dangerous weapons do not apply, plus certain people (such as criminals, children and nutcases) don't apply. Only reason things like Semi-automatics aren't included is because most of the population doesn't care about the issue and of those that do care, most of them want to keep their cool guns even at the cost of kids lives. The Consitution is not the trump card (no pun intended) you believe it is. <cite>Offworlder1 posted...</cite> <quote>@UnfairRepresent All those times people used an AR-15 for home defense specifically kids is important to note because that rifle is much easier for a child to safely use vs a pistol or shotgun. Those kids might be good pistol or shotgun shooters but the point is the AR-15 does NOT have high or strong recoil, it is easier to control, and is more accurate. Those kids especially hold merit considering how no one but the invader was harmed.</quote> That's neat I guess but I don't think it's a strong argument. If you want to you can add it alongside "Owning a store during a mass riot" as the incredibly rare scenarios where one might come in handy. "If 3 men burst into a home and there's only kids it might be slightly easier to aim + fire than some other rifles." I'd say those two combined are a 3 of clubs in terms of pro not having basic gun control ideas in effect arguments. Against Four of a kind Jacks against</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Offworlder1 02/24/18 8:14:26 PM #101:	@UnfairRepresent A straight pull AR-15 is not going to be effective as a home defense weapon, those kids sure as shit would not have been able to use it effectively. If this were the era of bolt actions then it could work but we are far past those days and the time it takes to cycle the round could be the difference between life or death and that is not at all worth it. Dead kids is a horrible thing but saying a shit tier gimped gun will work for home defense is just as bad. --- "Always two there are, a master and an apprentice" 3DS FC: 1564 - 7512 - 1815 <cite>Offworlder1 posted [p:896706204] in ITT: A gun... [t:76353496]...</cite> <quote>@UnfairRepresent A straight pull AR-15 is not going to be effective as a home defense weapon, those kids sure as shit would not have been able to use it effectively. If this were the era of bolt actions then it could work but we are far past those days and the time it takes to cycle the round could be the difference between life or death and that is not at all worth it. Dead kids is a horrible thing but saying a shit tier gimped gun will work for home defense is just as bad.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
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Current Events > ITT: A gun-control advocate learns about guns (+) Yeah! (+)

Current Events > ITT: A gun-control advocate learns about guns