Current Events > NOLA greenlights taller developments, nixes incentives for affordable housing

(+) Yeah! (+)

http://www.theadvocate.com/new_orleans/news/article_a3e5c330-1803-11e8-9b0b-279a7fbb0621.html

'Developer Sean Cummings said the removal of the affordability bonus was needed to see these properties actually develop over the next 10 years or so.

Basically his quote translated is "poor people get in the way of building condos"

But don't worry CE always tells me whenever I make a topic like this that things aren't remotely as bad I say they are here so this article saying the city council unanimously took a huge dump all over the poor locals of my hometown aad see this shit in person every day must not be true at all, right CE?
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I thought New Orleans was the most cultured place in the world though? Isn't that what you claimed before?
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Please just close your account
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Reeeeeeee G E N T R I F I C A T I O N
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Is the shithole city about to look a little bit better
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I was sober once in New Orleans and it scared the hell outta me.
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Yeah NOLA always had shitty politicians...
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Affordable housing won't help the people who don't carry enough sense to stop livingn those shitty tent cities
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Louisiana has some of the cheapest real estate in the country. There are mansions out there that go for the same price as suburban houses in larger Texas cities. I have no idea how they can't manage to create affordable housing in the outskirts of urban areas. Corruption?
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thelovefist posted...

I thought New Orleans was the most cultured place in the world though? Isn't that what you claimed before?

Yeah, but I was taking the piss. In the U.S.? Yeah, whole world? Noooooo

Bio1590 posted...

Reeeeeeee G E N T R I F I C A T I O N

That's right , turn a serious issue facing my home into a chance to fling shit

Classy as always

MacadamianNut3 posted...

Is the shithole city about to look a little bit better

And what irrelevant backwater shithole do you come from?

Johnny_Nutcase posted...

I was sober once in New Orleans and it scared the hell outta me.

Why? How?

Unsugarized_Foo posted...

Affordable housing won't help the people who don't carry enough sense to stop livingn those shitty tent cities

You realize they do that because they're you know..... poor?
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ZombiePelican posted...

thelovefist posted...

I thought New Orleans was the most cultured place in the world though? Isn't that what you claimed before?

Yeah, but I was taking the piss. In the U.S.? Yeah, whole world? Noooooo

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thelovefist posted...

ZombiePelican posted...

thelovefist posted...

I thought New Orleans was the most cultured place in the world though? Isn't that what you claimed before?

Yeah, but I was taking the piss. In the U.S.? Yeah, whole world? Noooooo

No, I'm not backpedaling. I even said in the topic near the end I wasn't serious. Did you miss that?
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ZombiePelican posted...

thelovefist posted...

ZombiePelican posted...

thelovefist posted...

I thought New Orleans was the most cultured place in the world though? Isn't that what you claimed before?

Yeah, but I was taking the piss. In the U.S.? Yeah, whole world? Noooooo

No, I'm not backpedaling. I even said in the topic near the end I wasn't serious. Did you miss that?

"I was embarrassed so I said I was just joking"
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thelovefist posted...

ZombiePelican posted...

thelovefist posted...

ZombiePelican posted...

thelovefist posted...

I thought New Orleans was the most cultured place in the world though? Isn't that what you claimed before?

Yeah, but I was taking the piss. In the U.S.? Yeah, whole world? Noooooo

No, I'm not backpedaling. I even said in the topic near the end I wasn't serious. Did you miss that?

"I was embarrassed so I said I was just joking"

Embarrassed by what? I wasn't serious from the start.
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ZombiePelican posted...

And what irrelevant backwater shithole do you come from?

http://www.wwltv.com/article/news/local/orleans/new-orleans-homicide-rate-is-higher-than-chicago/437912767

It is a corrupt, violent, crime-infested shithole. This gentrification is objectively an improvement.
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i went to new orleans in like 2008 or 2009, a few years after Katrina hit. the place looked like a warzone, it was really sad how hard the hurricane hit and how so many weren't able to recover from it
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The Admiral posted...

It is a corrupt, violent, crime-infested shithole. This gentrification is objectively an improvement.

You'd have something if gentrification actually brought down the murder rate, but even if areas that are heavily gentrified you have people still getting murdered.

All this gentrification is doing is displacing locals and stripping New Orleans of any sense if culture and uniqueness
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ZombiePelican posted...

The Admiral posted...

It is a corrupt, violent, crime-infested shithole. This gentrification is objectively an improvement.

You'd have something if gentrification actually brought down the murder rate, but even if areas that are heavily gentrified you have people still getting murdered.

All this gentrification is doing is displacing locals and stripping New Orleans of any sense if culture and uniqueness

You've repeatedly demonstrated that you have a poor understanding of the term culture.
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The Admiral posted...

ZombiePelican posted...

And what irrelevant backwater shithole do you come from?

http://www.wwltv.com/article/news/local/orleans/new-orleans-homicide-rate-is-higher-than-chicago/437912767

It is a corrupt, violent, crime-infested shithole. This gentrification is objectively an improvement.

"The best way to fix crime is to move white people in at the expense of law abiding black people"

Fuck you
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FrisbeeDude posted...

The Admiral posted...

ZombiePelican posted...

And what irrelevant backwater shithole do you come from?

http://www.wwltv.com/article/news/local/orleans/new-orleans-homicide-rate-is-higher-than-chicago/437912767

It is a corrupt, violent, crime-infested shithole. This gentrification is objectively an improvement.

"The best way to fix crime is to move white people in at the expense of law abiding black people"

Fuck you

LOL, get your victim complex under control.

Those poor people commit an inordinate amount of violent crime, so displacing them is good for everyone. The wealthier people moving in can be any race. We recently saw an example in Chicago of gentrification where wealthy blacks pushed out poor blacks, and it was easily a net improvement for the city. You only assume white people because you have race paranoia.
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The Admiral posted...

Those poor people commit an inordinate amount of violent crime, so displacing them is good for everyone.

except for the poor people
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thelovefist posted...

ZombiePelican posted...

The Admiral posted...

It is a corrupt, violent, crime-infested shithole. This gentrification is objectively an improvement.

You'd have something if gentrification actually brought down the murder rate, but even if areas that are heavily gentrified you have people still getting murdered.

All this gentrification is doing is displacing locals and stripping New Orleans of any sense if culture and uniqueness

You've repeatedly demonstrated that you have a poor understanding of the term culture.

In this case it's appropriately used, the people who give this city it's unique way of life and attitude are slowly but surely being pushed out of their own homes and neighborhoods
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The Admiral posted...

FrisbeeDude posted...

The Admiral posted...

ZombiePelican posted...

And what irrelevant backwater shithole do you come from?

http://www.wwltv.com/article/news/local/orleans/new-orleans-homicide-rate-is-higher-than-chicago/437912767

It is a corrupt, violent, crime-infested shithole. This gentrification is objectively an improvement.

"The best way to fix crime is to move white people in at the expense of law abiding black people"

Fuck you

LOL, get your victim complex under control.

Those poor people commit an inordinate amount of violent crime, so displacing them is good for everyone. The wealthier people moving in can be any race. We recently saw an example in Chicago of gentrification where wealthy blacks pushed out poor blacks, and it was easily a net improvement for the city. You only assume white people because you have race paranoia.

Racist and intellectually dishonest...par for the course with you
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FrisbeeDude meltdown incoming
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Romulox28 posted...

i went to new orleans in like 2008 or 2009, a few years after Katrina hit. the place looked like a warzone, it was really sad how hard the hurricane hit and how so many weren't able to recover from it

Yeah dude, there are still areas that are just as bad if not worse. Between the government dragging their feet in helping and politicians pocketing most of the money very little was actually done to help the poorer of locals in fact many flat out had their homes demolished regardless of condition and had nowhere else to go.

The moment the flooding receeded, I'm sure those politicians were rubbing their hands in glee, finally having a reason to demolish all that low income housing to make room for condos that would line their pockets
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The Admiral posted...

Those poor people commit an inordinate amount of violent crime, so displacing them is good for everyone.

lmao holy shit

people with reasoning like this is why good moves, like increasing height limits and not requiring affordable unit set-asides, are demonized

taller buildings are objectively good for affordability for obvious reasons

affordable housing set asides seem good at first, but the developer is correct that they cause lower margins which means fewer units overall get built than would otherwise be built

even if poor people can't afford the newly built units, they will draw the more affluent to them which frees up lower quality housing in other parts of the city, meaning it is good for affordability overall
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Balrog0 posted...

even if poor people can't afford the newly built units, they will draw the more affluent to them which frees up lower quality housing in other parts of the city, meaning it is good for affordability overall

Uh no, That's not how it works. When you regularly bulldoze affordable housing to make room for condos there isn't magically more affordable housing
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What's ZP melting down about today? Is he going on about New Orleans "culture" again?
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ZombiePelican posted...

And what irrelevant backwater shithole do you come from?

A city that doesn't perpetually smell like vomit, fortunately
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ZombiePelican posted...

Uh no, That's not how it works. When you regularly bulldoze affordable housing to make room for condos there isn't magically more affordable housing

there is, actually, even if they are doing that which is probably not actually the case

if you have a single family home and you replace it with a 6 story or even a walk up then the affluent people who are renting out many more SFHs will move in, opening up perhaps a dozen options for low-income renters as opposed to the one that they had before
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need more affordable housing. not everyone can be rich :(.
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displacing criminals instead of evaluating their living/economic systems just displaces the crime
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Balrog0 posted...

there is, actually, even if they are doing that which is probably not actually the case

That's literally what's happening here. Every single condo along St.Charles in the CBD used to be public/ low income housing the got damaged after Katrina and those who actually managed to stay need up being priced out with their business or houses getting demolished to make room for condos. You've literally never been here once and if you did you never left The Quarter or suburbs so quit talking like you know anything

Balrog0 posted...

for low-income renters as opposed to the one that they had before

Low income renders can't afford condos and that's all that's being built is what you fail to understand

prettyprincess posted...

displacing criminals instead of evaluating their living/economic systems just displaces the crime

They know that, that's just the convenient excuse they use to displace poor/minorities to line their own pockets.

Like when they demolished the housing projects here after Katrina, structurally they were all fine and just needed plumbing and electrical work but the city used the fact they were hives of crime and violence as an excuse to get rid of them and now all that violence is all over the city in areas where it never used to be
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ZombiePelican posted...

That's literally what's happening here. Every single condo along St.Charles in the CBD used to be public/ low income housing the got damaged after Katrina and those who actually managed to stay need up being priced out with their business or houses getting demolished to make room for condos. You've literally never been here once and if you did you never left The Quarter or suburbs so quit talking like you know anything

I've been several times, but it doesn't matter. This is universal across all cities that are adding people, and building condos doesn't make it harder to afford housing. The relationship is in the opposite direction.

ZombiePelican posted...

Low income renders can't afford condos and that's all that's being built is what you fail to understand

No, you're just failing to understand a very basic economic principle. Most low-income housing is old; the affordable housing that the vast majority of people live in is old, because housing typically lowers in price as it ages except for in particular historic districts. We've never built new 'affordable housing' in this country

What causes rents to rise is when there are more people looking to live in an area than there are available places to live. By making housing for rich people now, you're avoiding a more serious gentrification problem like you see in places like the Bay Area (and really, across California) where rich people are gentrifying huge swaths of the metro areas -- not just downtown in the central city -- even though California has until recently has been incredibly resistant to development like the kind you're crying about here

Rich people are perfectly willing to live in the older housing that most low-income people live in if there aren't newer units available for them. That pushes people out much more quickly than building new housing does.
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ZombiePelican posted...

Basically his quote translated is "poor people get in the way of building condos"

How, exactly, is that an incorrect statement?

Balrog0 posted...

What causes rents to rise is when there are more people looking to live in an area than there are available places to live. By making housing for rich people now, you're avoiding a more serious gentrification problem like you see in places like the Bay Area (and really, across California) where rich people are gentrifying huge swaths of the metro areas -- not just downtown in the central city -- even though California has until recently has been incredibly resistant to development like the kind you're crying about here

This. Buckets and buckets of this.

Balrog0 posted...

I've been several times,

I'm sure you went as far as Bourbon and your hotel room

Balrog0 posted...

This is universal across all cities that are adding people, and building condos doesn't make it harder to afford housing

Yes it does, there's literally a finite amount of space and if more and more is becoming condos and less and less is becoming affordable housing what the fuck do you think will be the result?

Oh wait, what's currently happening now with locals who've lived in areas for decades priced out by assholes who aren't even from here

What causes rents to rise is when there are more people looking to live in an area than there are available places to live. By making housing for rich people now, you're avoiding a more serious gentrification problem like you see in places like the Bay Area (and really, across California) where rich people are gentrifying huge swaths of the metro areas -- not just downtown in the central city -- even though California has until recently has been incredibly resistant to development like the kind you're crying about here

They want nothing but housing for rich people and that's the fucking problem you can't you seem to comprehend let alone give even a single shit about because you seem to think only though cold calculation like some kind of android

How the city council unanimously squashed an initiative designed to help POOR people in favor of the RICH to get rid of more low income housing in favor of more condos as rent prices continue to fucking skyrocket and available affordable housing in No dangerous neighborhoods becomes more scarce

That pushes people out much more quickly than building new housing does.

No, rich people coming in and buying everything and raising the price of rent and basic amenities to unaffordable levels pushes people out more than anything.

How, exactly, is that an incorrect statement?

I had to translate it from his bullshit PR filter and how fucked up and horrible it is when not put through that
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ZombiePelican posted...

Yes it does, there's literally a finite amount of space and if more and more is becoming condos and less and less is becoming affordable housing what the fuck do you think will be the result?

Oh wait, what's currently happening now with locals who've lived in areas for decades priced out by assholes who aren't even from here

You are not authorized to read messages from this board.

shut up, dude, I'm from San Jose which has been having this problem for more than two decades now. I was homeless for a decade as a child because of policies people like you promote. if I can be calm about it, you sure can

ZombiePelican posted...

They want nothing but housing for rich people and that's the fucking problem you can't you seem to comprehend let alone give even a single shit about because you seem to think only though cold calculation like some kind of android

How the city council unanimously squashed an initiative designed to help POOR people in favor of the RICH to get rid of more low income housing in favor of more condos as rent prices continue to fucking skyrocket and available affordable housing in No dangerous neighborhoods becomes more scarce

what you can't comprehend is that more housing for rich people means more affordable housing for poor people because you are an emotional child

ZombiePelican posted...

No, rich people coming in and buying everything and raising the price of rent and basic amenities to unaffordable levels pushes people out more than anything.

yeah and they are gonna come in anyway, that is my whole point

do you want them to have housing for them, or do you want them to bid up the price of the current housing stock ?

ZombiePelican posted...

I had to translate it from his bullshit PR filter and how fucked up and horrible it is when not put through that

PR for who or for what? Sensible urban policies?
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Affordable housing has ruined San Diego

The rich subsidize the poor and the middle class is fucked here

I should rephrase.

It's a part of a larger problem with real estate in .ca

Need diff zoning laws imo

Romes187 posted...

Affordable housing has ruined San Diego

The rich subsidize the poor and the middle class is fucked here

Ruined San Diego? Lol what? So a couple affording buildings in Barrio Logan ruined SD?

CruelBuffalo posted...

Romes187 posted...

Affordable housing has ruined San Diego

The rich subsidize the poor and the middle class is fucked here

Ruined San Diego? Lol what? So a couple affording buildings in Barrio Logan ruined SD?

Yes that's exactly what I said. Word for word.

I give up on this message board

Romes187 posted...

CruelBuffalo posted...

Romes187 posted...

Affordable housing has ruined San Diego

The rich subsidize the poor and the middle class is fucked here

Ruined San Diego? Lol what? So a couple affording buildings in Barrio Logan ruined SD?

Yes that's exactly what I said. Word for word.

I give up on this message board

Try not behaving like a middle school girl and be clear instead of vague. What affordable house in SD and how exactly did it ruin it.

The set-aside threshold was only 10% which doesn't seem unreasonable.
Two small apartments in the basement, eighteen nice condos in the rest of the building.

CruelBuffalo posted...

Ruined San Diego? Lol what? So a couple affording buildings in Barrio Logan ruined SD?

https://www.bloomberg.com/view/articles/2018-01-18/yup-rent-control-does-more-harm-than-good
http://marketurbanism.com/2014/05/29/how-affordable-housing-policies-backfire/

CruelBuffalo posted...

Romes187 posted...

CruelBuffalo posted...

Romes187 posted...

Affordable housing has ruined San Diego

The rich subsidize the poor and the middle class is fucked here

Ruined San Diego? Lol what? So a couple affording buildings in Barrio Logan ruined SD?

Yes that's exactly what I said. Word for word.

I give up on this message board

Try not behaving like a middle school girl and be clear instead of vague. What affordable house in SD and how exactly did it ruin it.

...I really give up. You're right I'm wrong.

Questionmarktarius posted...

The set-aside threshold was only 10% which doesn't seem unreasonable.
Two small apartments in the basement, eighteen nice condos in the rest of the building.

yeah, it isn't that bad

but it isn't actually useful, though

http://cityobservatory.org/the-0-1-percent-solution-inclusionary-zonings-fatal-scale-problem/

https://www.huduser.gov/portal/periodicals/cityscpe/vol19num1/ch11.pdf

At City Observatory, weve been highly skeptical of the effectiveness of inclusionary zoning. While inclusionary zoning gets top mention as a preferred policy by many affordable housing advocates, theres precious little evidence that its ever had more than a token effect on the size of the housing affordability problem in any city. In addition, because inclusionary zoning requirements essentially shift the cost of housing subsidies onto new development, they raise its cost, and likely reduce the number of units that get builtwhich tends to aggravate housing shortages and further accelerate prices. Weve written that inclusionary zoning has a scale problem, and its a question that this paper investigates directly.

Heres the quantitative evidence to that point: Freeman and Shuetz compiled data on 150 different inclusionary zoning programs in five different regions of the country. To illustrate the scale of these inclusionary zoning programs relative to the market, they show the total number of existing housing units in 2000 in the jurisdictions with inclusionary zoning, and for reference show the number of units financed through the federal Low Income Housing Tax Credit (LIHTC)

They conclude:

Average annual production under local IZ programs varies systematically across regions, but in all areas has contributed only a modest amount of affordable housing. * * * Expressed as a share of the existing housing stock, affordable housing produced under IZ is less than 0.1 percent of existing housing in all regions.
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Balrog0 posted...

but it isn't actually useful, though

The hell's going on today, that we're agreeing about a bunch of stuff?

Developers see the whole thing as a huge annoyance, and the pittance of units serves no significant purpose (other than being dogpiled by about a hundred applications for each available unit).
All set-asides actually accomplish, is letting activists pat themselves on the back about "doing something", and provide politicians easy soundbites at re-election time.

Meanwhile, all it does is add to the great housing schism between "places you can't afford" and "places you can't get". Any unit not mandated to be "affordable" is going to be ritzed and overpriced as fuck, to make up the opportunity cost of having to set-aside a handful of units at a mandated price-point.

Romes187 posted...

CruelBuffalo posted...

Romes187 posted...

CruelBuffalo posted...

Romes187 posted...

Affordable housing has ruined San Diego

The rich subsidize the poor and the middle class is fucked here

Ruined San Diego? Lol what? So a couple affording buildings in Barrio Logan ruined SD?

Yes that's exactly what I said. Word for word.

I give up on this message board

Try not behaving like a middle school girl and be clear instead of vague. What affordable house in SD and how exactly did it ruin it.

...I really give up. You're right I'm wrong.

Youre 100% correct. I should accept what you said without any examples provided. Thats the smart thing for me to do right?

Balrog0 posted...

was homeless for a decade as a child because of policies people like you promote. if I can be calm about it, you sure can

I know 3 people currently who were priced out of the neighborhoods they grew up in because they got gentrified and thus couldn't afford the newly inflated rent. Making shit up for internet brownie points isn't helping your cause

Balrog0 posted...

what you can't comprehend is that more housing for rich people means more affordable housing for poor people because you are an emotional child

Because that makes no fucking sense in any way, when you continually bulldoze the homes of poor people to make room for housing for rich people while making almost no new affordable housing all that does is displace people

How does taking away from the poor giving them anything?

Balrog0 posted...

yeah and they are gonna come in anyway, that is my whole point

And that's not a good fucking thing is my point, rich asshole coming and buying everything up only makes shit worse for the poorest of poor who are getting the shaft in all this as their comes get bulldozed to make room for fucking condos

Balrog0 posted...

do you want them to have housing for them, or do you want them to bid up the price of the current housing stock ?

You can take your dronish Wall st rhetoric and shove up your ass. I won't go out of my way to defend the mega rich shitting in the ultra poor like you're doing. They didn't have to put nothing but housing for rich people where housing for poor people once lived, they could have put reasonably priced apartments and houses after tgey demolished all that damaged housing after Katrina but NOPE that doesn't line the pockets of the crooks who run this city so it's now condos condos condos as far as the eye can see

Balrog0 posted...

PR for who or for what? Sensible urban policies?

Would you when knowingly being quoted make it openly known you squashed an incentive to help the poor people in favor of helping extremely rich people who literally need no help?
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ZombiePelican posted...

Because that makes no fucking sense in any way, when you continually bulldoze the homes of poor people to make room for housing for rich people while making almost no new affordable housing all that does is displace people

How does taking away from the poor giving them anything other than a prettier aesthetic they can't afford?

the overall housing stock is going to up because the height requirement allows for there to be more total units

the number of affordable housing units is small relative to the overall demand for affordable housing

therefore the new housing stock will be bought up by the rich, allowing the overall cost of housing to go down as they reallocate themselves into luxury units

I understand it is a difficult process to understand relative to the people who are losing their housing now. But there is plenty of research to show this is the case, and the places where displacement is a smaller problem are the places where they allow new market rate housing to be built. It's not coincidental.

ZombiePelican posted...

And that's not a good fucking thing is my point, rich asshole coming and buying everything up only makes shit worse for the poorest of poor who are getting the shaft in all this as their comes get bulldozed to make room for fucking condos

It is going to happen whether you like it or not. They would make things even worse for the poor if you didn't allow them to build condos. What is your alternative solution to the affordability crisis?

ZombiePelican posted...

You can take your dronish Wall st rhetoric and shove up your ass. I won't go out of my way to defend the mega rich shitting in the ultra poor like you're doing. They didn't have to put nothing but housing for rich people where housing for poor people once lived, they could have put reasonably priced apartments and houses after tgey demolished all that damaged housing after Katrina but NOPE that doesn't line the pockets of the crooks who run this city so condos condors condos as far as the eye can see

It isn't droning anything. You can only maintain this opinion because you are discounting my actual personal experience with this because you are incapable of resolving the cognitive dissonance that maybe someone who disagrees with you isn't just a shill for the rich. Sorry, dude.
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ZombiePelican posted...

Would you when knowingly being quoted make it openly known you squashed an incentive to help the poor people in favor of helping extremely rich people who literally need no help?

I don't understand the question; if you're asking if I would openly oppose inclusionary zoning policies like this one, then yes I would and I would explain why like I am doing right here and now.
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