Current Events > Army drops nade throwing requirement to graduate, new recruits can't throw far

(+) Yeah! (+)

chucking little bombs seems a bit archaic tbh

I guess they probably come in handy sometimes though

iClockwork posted...

LJRENEGADE posted...

I'm not in the military and I've never used a grenade/grenade launcher, but I'd imagine its harder to aim a grenade launcher at the right arc than to simply throw it. And its probably easier/faster to throw grenades then to have to keep loading them into a grenade launcher. And the added weight of the launcher probably isn't good, especially for aiming the guns when using them normally, if we're talking about those underbarrel grenade launchers that is.

That's why you learn to aim the launcher in basic instead of spending time throwing them...

Always having them on the rifle would make no difference to your aim...

You don't continuously throw grenades...

What happens when the grenade launcher fails?
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Aren't grenades more for flushing people out of cover? I honestly have no idea >.>
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also it's pretty stupid to honestly believe adding 10 pounds to your rifle wouldn't hurt your aim lol
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Fucking millenials
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Know the last time I threw a grenade?

In Basic over 4 years ago

Want to know the realistic chances of me throwing a grenade in the future? Pretty fucking slim.

It should be a requirement in 11B AIT but let's be real, a solid 90% of the Army isn't going to throw another grenade after basic anyways.

At most they might get to fire paint rounds out of a M320.

It just seems like a real waste of time teaching brand new privates a skill theyll realistically never practice and probably never use again in their entire Army career
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wackyteen posted...

Know the last time I threw a grenade?

In Basic over 4 years ago

Want to know the realistic chances of me throwing a grenade in the future? Pretty fucking slim.

It should be a requirement in 11B AIT but let's be real, a solid 90% of the Army isn't going to throw another grenade after basic anyways.

At most they might get to fire paint rounds out of a M320.

It just seems like a real waste of time teaching brand new privates a skill theyll realistically never practice and probably never use again in their entire Army career

That's a fair point, but it seems the issue isn't form but range. Failure to pass the line is an indicator that the strength isn't there, which IS a much bigger deal. The fact that you haven't thrown a grenade in 4 years shows you don't need to throw grenades, but if you were too weak to throw a grenade what would those last 4 years have been like?
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wackyteen posted...

Know the last time I threw a grenade?

In Basic over 4 years ago

Want to know the realistic chances of me throwing a grenade in the future? Pretty fucking slim.

It should be a requirement in 11B AIT but let's be real, a solid 90% of the Army isn't going to throw another grenade after basic anyways.

At most they might get to fire paint rounds out of a M320.

It just seems like a real waste of time teaching brand new privates a skill theyll realistically never practice and probably never use again in their entire Army career

Idk man I just find it annoying that they aren't getting rid of this because it wasn't used anymore but more so because the privates simply cannot do it anymore. That's some extreme level of weakness imo
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when i was doing training, grenades were never about throwing it as far as possible, that's not really what they're for.

first one, it was just enough to throw it on the other side of a wall, and then we duck behind another wall.

after that, only time grenades have been used was to throw into a room right before you're about to charge in. (though those were only harmless training grenades)
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s0nicfan posted...

That's a fair point, but it seems the issue isn't form but range. Failure to pass the line is an indicator that the strength isn't there, which IS a much bigger deal. The fact that you haven't thrown a grenade in 4 years shows you don't need to throw grenades, but if you were too weak to throw a grenade what would those last 4 years have been like?

Not too much different at all.
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Are grenades heavy or something lol?
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oh boy it's another "CEmen argue about shit they have no idea about" topic.
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CEs_EFG posted...

Idk man I just find it annoying that they aren't getting rid of this because it wasn't used anymore but more so because the privates simply cannot do it anymore. That's some extreme level of weakness imo

Yeah, they could've easily pinned it on no longer using it.

But a lot of people I've met in the Army are just weak bodies who can't consistently pass their PT tests.
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wackyteen posted...

s0nicfan posted...

That's a fair point, but it seems the issue isn't form but range. Failure to pass the line is an indicator that the strength isn't there, which IS a much bigger deal. The fact that you haven't thrown a grenade in 4 years shows you don't need to throw grenades, but if you were too weak to throw a grenade what would those last 4 years have been like?

Not too much different at all.

Did you deploy, or have you been working a desk job? I only ask because I often hear about how brutal it is for soldiers given the sheer volume of crap they have to carry so I'm surprised you'd think maintaining sufficient physical strength isn't that big of a deal.
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iClockwork posted...

Always having them on the rifle would make no difference to your aim...

CEs_EFG posted...

It's not about money it's that those things are heavy on your arms and make it harder to shoot In any type of situation.

This. Its extra weight.

That's why you learn to aim the launcher in basic instead of spending time throwing them...

My point being grenade launchers don't just pop the grenade out, they shoot with a lot of force and there's no way of adjusting that, at least as far as I know. An arm is easier to work with in general.

You don't continuously throw grenades...

If you needed to throw grenades into multiple places in a short time span, it would still be faster and simpler to throw instead of using a launcher.

wackyteen posted...

CEs_EFG posted...

Idk man I just find it annoying that they aren't getting rid of this because it wasn't used anymore but more so because the privates simply cannot do it anymore. That's some extreme level of weakness imo

Yeah, they could've easily pinned it on no longer using it.

But a lot of people I've met in the Army are just weak bodies who can't consistently pass their PT tests.

That's true lol
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s0nicfan posted...

Did you deploy, or have you been working a desk job? I only ask because I often hear about how brutal it is for soldiers given the sheer volume of crap they have to carry so I'm surprised you'd think maintaining sufficient physical strength isn't that big of a deal.

he was like a fucking MP or some shit so he guarded gates

I was an infantry Marine if you couldn't throw a frag we'd laugh our asses off at you unless you were a boot then we'd laugh our asses off at you while you threw "frags" until your arm fell off
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iClockwork posted...

Don't we have grenade launchers? Why do we need to throw them?

Yes, let me carry both a rifle and a grenade launcher in the middle of a firefight instead of just being able to simply throw them. That won't be cumbersome at all
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spudger posted...

How are grenades still used in 2018

They're used to scatter people within fortifications or do things like attack behind walls where you can't clearly see.

Additionally fragmentation grenades are seeing less use but there are others such as gas and flashbang grenades that are fairly common in tactical situations especially with hostages.

and you don't need to throw 25 fucking meters to use one of these things
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s0nicfan posted...

Did you deploy, or have you been working a desk job? I only ask because I often hear about how brutal it is for soldiers given the sheer volume of crap they have to carry so I'm surprised you'd think maintaining sufficient physical strength isn't that big of a deal.

I'm not infantry, so when I did deploy I wasn't out roughing it.

I'm a Truck Driver, so depending on the day I might be a desk jockey or I could be out slinging 100 lb 155mm rounds.
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Tyranthraxus posted...

spudger posted...

How are grenades still used in 2018

They're used to scatter people within fortifications or do things like attack behind walls where you can't clearly see.

Additionally fragmentation grenades are seeing less use but there are others such as gas and flashbang grenades that are fairly common in tactical situations especially with hostages.

and you don't need to throw 25 fucking meters to use one of these things

I want as much distance between me and a CS grenade when it goes off, just saying
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NeonOctopus posted...

Yes, let me carry both a rifle and a grenade launcher in the middle of a firefight instead of just being able to simply throw them. That won't be cumbersome at all

We do both. Marines have a riflemen in the squad with a M32 that he carries with his rifles, as well as the designated grenadier in every team who has a M203 undermounted grenade launcher.

The thing is that launched grenades have an arming distance to prevent you from blowing yourself up, around 20 meters. You also can't lob a launched grenade in the same kind of arc you can with a throw.
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iClockwork posted...

Don't we have grenade launchers? Why do we need to throw them?

Because they're heavy and take up extra space.
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Fishy posted...

We do both. Marines have a riflemen in the squad with a M32 that he carries with his rifles, as well as the designated grenadier in every team who has a M203 undermounted grenade launcher.

Yeah that's 2 peeps per squad the other guy thinks he can just give undermounteds so everyone that carries a rifle
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CEs_EFG posted...

Yeah that's 2 peeps per squad the other guy thinks he can just give undermounteds so everyone that carries a rifle

For a squad of Marines thats four out of thirteen guys with launchers.
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CEs_EFG posted...

You want to carry 7 to 10 extra pounds on your rifle that's already 14 pounds? I'm glad you're not making any decisions

CEs_EFG posted...

It's not about money it's that those things are heavy on your arms and make it harder to shoot In any type of situation.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M203_grenade_launcher

They weigh 3 pounds next excuse?
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iClockwork posted...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M203_grenade_launcher

They weigh 3 pounds next excuse?

i doubt you've ever walked a mile carrying three pounds let alone what the average infantryman has to deal with
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Where are they going to put all the extra 203 rounds?
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iClockwork posted...

CEs_EFG posted...

You want to carry 7 to 10 extra pounds on your rifle that's already 14 pounds? I'm glad you're not making any decisions

CEs_EFG posted...

It's not about money it's that those things are heavy on your arms and make it harder to shoot In any type of situation.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M203_grenade_launcher

They weigh 3 pounds next excuse?

You're not just carrying the extra weight in general, you're trying to aim a gun steady and hold it while shooting, which will be harder with any more weight. Even if it only makes it a little bit easier to handle your gun, isn't that preferable since you can just carry hand grenades normally, so they're not in the way? And I would imagine they shoot their guns normally than using grenades anyway.

And no need to be snarky dude, come on.

iClockwork posted...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M203_grenade_launcher

They weigh 3 pounds next excuse?

That's unloaded say a grenade is a pound and you carry max grenade and also

Fishy posted...

i doubt you've ever walked a mile carrying three pounds let alone what the average infantryman has to deal with

This

LJRENEGADE posted...

You're not just carrying the extra weight in general, you're trying to aim a gun steady and hold it while shooting, which will be harder with any more weight. Even if it only makes it a little bit easier to handle your gun, isn't that preferable since you can just carry hand grenades normally, so they're not in the way? And I would imagine they shoot their guns normally than using grenades anyway.

And no need to be snarky dude, come on.

And this lol
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s0nicfan posted...

Why should they intentionally obscure the real reason for dropping the requirement? Are you actually advocating they just make s*** up?

Because it causes fewer headaches and less uproar from people who don't have any idea what they're talking about (see this topic for an example). Less backlash is always a good thing. And let's not be stupid and pretend they don't "just make shit up" all the time already.

As several people have pointed out in this topic, my explanation is a perfectly legitimate excuse for not requiring the 25m distance anymore. It makes sense, there wouldn't be any backlash, and the Army gets what it wants without having to deal with the implied weakness. There's literally no reason not to chalk it up to the fact that it's just not a useful skill in most modern combat scenarios.
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iClockwork posted...

Don't we have grenade launchers? Why do we need to throw them?

Plus drones. We probably won't have another army vs army straight up warfare scenario for decades.
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gunplagirl posted...

iClockwork posted...

Don't we have grenade launchers? Why do we need to throw them?

Plus drones. We probably won't have another army vs army straight up warfare scenario for decades.

Holy shit what a shit post Batman!
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kCEs_EFG posted...

That's unloaded say a grenade is a pound and you carry max grenade and also

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M67_grenade
Weight0.875 lb (0.397 kg)

http://www.inetres.com/gp/military/infantry/grenade/40mm_ammo.htm
Weight0.503 lb (0.23 kg)

40mm weigh less and would make up the difference easily.

CEs_EFG posted...

Fishy posted...
i doubt you've ever walked a mile carrying three pounds let alone what the average infantryman has to deal with

This

Ad hominem doesn't add to your argument.
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Throwing something 80 feet is harder than you would think it is. I could still do it back in little league, but if you haven't thrown in a while, grab a good rock and take a walk to the local park and try it. I can totally see someone who's never played a sport with throwing involved having a tough time doing it.
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synth_real posted...

Throwing something 80 feet is harder than you would think it is. I could still do it back in little league, but if you haven't thrown in a while, grab a good rock and take a walk to the local park and try it. I can totally see someone who's never played a sport with throwing involved having a tough time doing it.

Clearly it didn't used to be a problem. So what changed?
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Aristoph posted...

s0nicfan posted...

Why should they intentionally obscure the real reason for dropping the requirement? Are you actually advocating they just make s*** up?

Because it causes fewer headaches and less uproar from people who don't have any idea what they're talking about (see this topic for an example). Less backlash is always a good thing. And let's not be stupid and pretend they don't "just make shit up" all the time already.

As several people have pointed out in this topic, my explanation is a perfectly legitimate excuse for not requiring the 25m distance anymore. It makes sense, there wouldn't be any backlash, and the Army gets what it wants without having to deal with the implied weakness. There's literally no reason not to chalk it up to the fact that it's just not a useful skill in most modern combat scenarios.

And as I've said, its not about the skill but the fact that its evidence of a bigger problem which is people not passing the strength requirements, which DO matter in all aspects of combat. It's indicative of a bigger problem that has serious ramifications on military readiness and hiding that behind an excuse is stupid.
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iClockwork posted...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M67_grenade
Weight0.875 lb (0.397 kg)

http://www.inetres.com/gp/military/infantry/grenade/40mm_ammo.htm
Weight0.503 lb (0.23 kg)

40mm weigh less and would make up the difference

That doesn't make it any better even adding just 5 pounds makes it a lot harder to shoot. You can tell you have 0 experience carrying rifles. When you're walking for miles every pounds counts. Usually the bigger guys get the m4 attachments because the little guys simply can't handle it
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iClockwork posted...

Ad hominem doesn't add to your argument

Also it does a bit when the person you're arguing with obviously has 0 experience with anything and tries to play arm chair general. Pretty much makes you look like an ass
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CEs_EFG posted...

iClockwork posted...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M67_grenade
Weight0.875 lb (0.397 kg)

http://www.inetres.com/gp/military/infantry/grenade/40mm_ammo.htm
Weight0.503 lb (0.23 kg)

40mm weigh less and would make up the difference

That doesn't make it any better even adding just 5 pounds makes it a lot harder to shoot. You can tell you have 0 experience carrying rifles. When you're walking for miles every pounds counts. Usually the bigger guys get the m4 attachments because the little guys simply can't handle it

Actually extra weight makes it easier to hold on target while shooting, it's just more exhausting to hold up and carry around all day.
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Tropicalwood posted...

Actually extra weight makes it easier to hold on target while shooting, it's just more exhausting to hold up and carry around all day.

Standing? Doesn't make sense to me. The guys who are actually using the are walking around all day so there's that
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CEs_EFG posted...

That doesn't make it any better even adding just 5 pounds makes it a lot harder to shoot. You can tell you have 0 experience carrying rifles. When you're walking for miles every pounds counts. Usually the bigger guys get the m4 attachments because the little guys simply can't handle it

Good thing I just showed you that you're not adding 5 pounds sooo there's another moot point.
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iClockwork posted...

Good thing I just showed you that you're not adding 5 pounds sooo there's another moot point.

Ugh 3 lbs + ammo? Do you not carry that ammo around? Lol you're clearly trolling at this point how sad. Specially after you got wrecked by multiple people already
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FLUFFYGERM posted...

12amMadman posted...

Lmao if you can't throw 25 meters

Do you guys even know how much a grenade weighs?

I really doubt it
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But where will they put the extra ammo for the launcher? I sure as shit ain't gonna add on a 203 for one round.
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wackyteen posted...

But where will they put the extra ammo for the launcher? I sure as shit ain't gonna add on a 203 for one round.

That's what I'm saying gotta carry at 3 grenades idk how much for the attachment probably more since that's all you're gonna be using
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CEs_EFG posted...

Ugh 3 lbs + ammo? Do you not carry that ammo around? Lol you're clearly trolling at this point how sad. Specially after you got wrecked by multiple people already

(+3lbs + .5x) - .875x

Nice try cherry picking the numbers though.,
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Wat

Why would they do this? Why would they rob new recruits of such fun?

Grenade throwing is one of the few things you have to look forward to in basic.
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iClockwork posted...

CEs_EFG posted...

Ugh 3 lbs + ammo? Do you not carry that ammo around? Lol you're clearly trolling at this point how sad. Specially after you got wrecked by multiple people already

(+3lbs + .5x) - .875x

Nice try cherry picking the numbers though.,

And you're not carrying just one piece lmao

wackyteen posted...

But where will they put the extra ammo for the launcher? I sure as shit ain't gonna add on a 203 for one round.

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CEs_EFG posted...

And you're not carrying just one piece lmao

That's the point...its more efficient... most infantry carry 4 regular grenades.

So that's .875(4) = 3.496pds

M203 + 4 40mm = 3+4(.5) = 5 pds.

The difference is 1.504 pounds.

btfo again.
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