Current Events > Trumps immigration proposal: 1.8 million dreamers for the Wall.

(+) Yeah! (+)

President Trumps immigration proposal to Congress will include a path to citizenship for an estimated 1.8 million young undocumented immigrants, White House officials said Thursday, more than twice the number of dreamers who were enrolled in a deferred action program Trump terminated last fall.

Trumps plan, which will be formally sent to the Senate on Monday, also includes a $25 billion trust fund for a border wall and additional security upgrades on both the southwest and northern U.S. borders. And the president will propose significant curbs to legal immigration channels, restricting the ability of U.S. citizens to petition for visas only for spouses and minor children and ending categories for parents and siblings. Both of those provisions are likely to engender fierce objections among liberal Democrats.

https://goo.gl/6uCmEh
---

Dems better wise up and take the deal.
---

The way you worded the topic title made me think of Game of Thrones... like Trump is sending 1.8 million dreamers to the wall lol.

Fine by me, let most of those already in the country stay as long as they have a clean record in return build the wall and enforce the immigration law in the future.

im not for using people who did nothing wrong as negotiation chips.
---

I think they should give Trump the wall. Then when he's impeached and the blue wave hits, we can stop the wall and suddenly have $25 billion unbudgeted to spend on whatever. Dems will look good in the long run.
---

The only story here is Trump doesn't know how numbers work. This bill will be flat out rejected because even Republicans won't approve of a wall.
---

TheVipaGTS posted...

im not for using people who did nothing wrong as negotiation chips.

Disagree. This is a great deal. I'd vote for this in a heartbeat if I was on the senate.
---

TheVipaGTS posted...

im not for using people who did nothing wrong as negotiation chips.

The fact they live here means they are committing a crime every day of their life. In countries unlike the US that can mean life in prison or death. In the US that means social security benefits and welfare
---

This would cut legal immigration by like 50 percent.
---

TheVipaGTS posted...

im not for using people who did nothing wrong as negotiation chips.

Undocumented immigrants=illegal immigrants=broken the law=done something wrong LOL.

BuzzyTheCat posted...

In the US that means social security benefits and welfare

Note: it doesn't.
---

IdiotMachine posted...

The way you worded the topic title made me think of Game of Thrones... like Trump is sending 1.8 million dreamers to the wall lol.

sortof that for me too. I was thinking either that, or like, they are gonna be made to build it.

Newhopes posted...

TheVipaGTS posted...

im not for using people who did nothing wrong as negotiation chips.

Undocumented immigrants=illegal immigrants=broken the law=done something wrong LOL.

you realize these people were brought over when they were minors and had no say in the matter, right?
---

TheVipaGTS posted...

Newhopes posted...

TheVipaGTS posted...

im not for using people who did nothing wrong as negotiation chips.

Undocumented immigrants=illegal immigrants=broken the law=done something wrong LOL.

you realize these people were brought over when they were minors and had no say in the matter, right?

Does that mean that the law recognizes them differently?

oh... it doesn't

They have no legal standing. Anything they are given is a blessing to them and sure as shit should be used as political leverage.
---

TheVipaGTS posted...

Newhopes posted...

TheVipaGTS posted...

im not for using people who did nothing wrong as negotiation chips.

Undocumented immigrants=illegal immigrants=broken the law=done something wrong LOL.

you realize these people were brought over when they were minors and had no say in the matter, right?

Deal doesn't include just the "dreamers" who BTW should stay with their parents.

No. We don't need that wall he promised that the US would not pay for.
---

Antifar posted...

BuzzyTheCat posted...

In the US that means social security benefits and welfare

Note: it doesn't.

Whats a sanctuary city/state for 200 Alex?

Yes, it does. You can even get a drivers license, state issued ID to use when filing for benefits, and you have no worry about being deported even after you have committed other crimes such as identity theft (which almost all illegals outside sanctuary cities/states do in order to work)
---

BuzzyTheCat posted...

drivers license, state issued ID to use when filing for benefits, and you have no worry about being deported even after you have committed other crimes such as identity theft (which almost all illegals outside sanctuary cities/states do in order to wor

Some states do allow illegal immigrants to receive certain benefits, but those benefits cannot be matched with federal dollars. This makes the available pools relatively small, so the resources are used for the most fragile recipients for a brief period of time.
---

Sayoria posted...

No. We don't need that wall he promised that the US would not pay for.

Mexico will pay for it one way or the other. I highly doubt Mexico wants to make a firm stand in the middle of NAFTA negotiations even if Canada is offering them a special deal. People keep talking about Trump being a 1 term President and totally ignoring Justin Trudeau is firmly on track to be the most disliked Prime Minister in recent Canadian history
---

cerealbox760 posted...

BuzzyTheCat posted...

drivers license, state issued ID to use when filing for benefits, and you have no worry about being deported even after you have committed other crimes such as identity theft (which almost all illegals outside sanctuary cities/states do in order to wor

Some states do allow illegal immigrants to receive certain benefits, but those benefits cannot be matched with federal dollars. This makes the available pools relatively small, so the resources are used for the most fragile recipients for a brief period of time.

That isnt how it works at all.

https://www.gao.gov/products/HEHS-98-30
---

Why would you want to keep a bunch of illegals? And honestly what makes an illegal a better dreamer?
---

BuzzyTheCat posted...

cerealbox760 posted...

BuzzyTheCat posted...

drivers license, state issued ID to use when filing for benefits, and you have no worry about being deported even after you have committed other crimes such as identity theft (which almost all illegals outside sanctuary cities/states do in order to wor

Some states do allow illegal immigrants to receive certain benefits, but those benefits cannot be matched with federal dollars. This makes the available pools relatively small, so the resources are used for the most fragile recipients for a brief period of time.

That isnt how it works at all.

https://www.gao.gov/products/HEHS-98-30

Tell me how its works instead of posting a link from 1997.
---

cerealbox760 posted...

BuzzyTheCat posted...

drivers license, state issued ID to use when filing for benefits, and you have no worry about being deported even after you have committed other crimes such as identity theft (which almost all illegals outside sanctuary cities/states do in order to wor

Some states do allow illegal immigrants to receive certain benefits, but those benefits cannot be matched with federal dollars. This makes the available pools relatively small, so the resources are used for the most fragile recipients for a brief period of time.

The IRS estimate around 1.5-2 million illegal immigrants use stolen SSN to work and claim benefits.

Can't they just have the kids stand on top of each to act as a wall?
---

spincr posted...

Why would you want to keep a bunch of illegals? And honestly what makes an illegal a better dreamer?

Because many pay taxes. If they are net-positive to society, they should stay. And criminals that are a burden to society need to go.
---

BuzzyTheCat posted...

Sayoria posted...

No. We don't need that wall he promised that the US would not pay for.

Mexico will pay for it one way or the other. I highly doubt Mexico wants to make a firm stand in the middle of NAFTA negotiations even if Canada is offering them a special deal. People keep talking about Trump being a 1 term President and totally ignoring Justin Trudeau is firmly on track to be the most disliked Prime Minister in recent Canadian history

Mexico can't be forced to pay for the wall. Not without war.
---

cerealbox760 posted...

spincr posted...

Why would you want to keep a bunch of illegals? And honestly what makes an illegal a better dreamer?

Because many pay taxes. If they are net-positive to society, they should stay. And criminals that are a burden to society need to go.

So whats the point of being a citizen?
---

cerealbox760 posted...

BuzzyTheCat posted...

cerealbox760 posted...

BuzzyTheCat posted...

drivers license, state issued ID to use when filing for benefits, and you have no worry about being deported even after you have committed other crimes such as identity theft (which almost all illegals outside sanctuary cities/states do in order to wor

Some states do allow illegal immigrants to receive certain benefits, but those benefits cannot be matched with federal dollars. This makes the available pools relatively small, so the resources are used for the most fragile recipients for a brief period of time.

That isnt how it works at all.

https://www.gao.gov/products/HEHS-98-30

Tell me how its works instead of posting a link from 1997.

Benefits are given out based on eligibility determined by the state. Technically the state is also committing a crime by giving those dollars to illegals, however putting politicians in Prison tends to not happen unless you come from Illinois. California for example gets money in blocks, and spends it based on what they determine is proper. Take the 1997 numbers and multiply them. Its unpopular to do such research in 2018
---

BuzzyTheCat posted...

Mexico will pay for it one way or the other.

---

There are only 800,000 Dreamers trump.
---

creativerealms posted...

There are only 800,000 Dreamers trump.

There are only 800,000 that could be bothered to sign up
---

JustMonika posted...

BuzzyTheCat posted...

Mexico will pay for it one way or the other.

I wonder who will be laughing when the US and Canada, and Canada Mexico sign trade deals, and Mexico loses its Special Economic Zones that have been driving the Mexican economy for decades (and this has actually been floated as an idea by Canada and Mexico as a trade deal between all 3 seems unlikely at best)
---

Pretty smart.

It'll be shot down because the wall is a dumb idea, and Trump will claim that he tried to save the dreamers but Congress failed them.
---

BuzzyTheCat posted...

cerealbox760 posted...

BuzzyTheCat posted...

cerealbox760 posted...

BuzzyTheCat posted...

drivers license, state issued ID to use when filing for benefits, and you have no worry about being deported even after you have committed other crimes such as identity theft (which almost all illegals outside sanctuary cities/states do in order to wor

Some states do allow illegal immigrants to receive certain benefits, but those benefits cannot be matched with federal dollars. This makes the available pools relatively small, so the resources are used for the most fragile recipients for a brief period of time.

That isnt how it works at all.

https://www.gao.gov/products/HEHS-98-30

Tell me how its works instead of posting a link from 1997.

Benefits are given out based on eligibility determined by the state. Technically the state is also committing a crime by giving those dollars to illegals, however putting politicians in Prison tends to not happen unless you come from Illinois. California for example gets money in blocks, and spends it based on what they determine is proper. Take the 1997 numbers and multiply them. Its unpopular to do such research in 2018

Available pools relatively small because they cannot be matched with federal money so the resources are used for the most fragile recipients for a brief period of time. It makes no sense to multiply your numbers with an imaginary one.
---

cerealbox760 posted...

spincr posted...

Why would you want to keep a bunch of illegals? And honestly what makes an illegal a better dreamer?

Because many pay taxes. If they are net-positive to society, they should stay. And criminals that are a burden to society need to go.

As a whole illegal immigrants are a fiscally loss to the economy mainly to local states rather than federal revenue , they also harm the native population in the way of job losses and wage suppression.

ThePrinceFish posted...

creativerealms posted...

There are only 800,000 Dreamers trump.

There are only 800,000 that could be bothered to sign up

Or were accepted. There were strict standards in place for the program and those are the best of the best.

Now I still think the wall is a horrible idea that won't work. Most republicans don't even like it which is a by they kept insisting it was a symbolic wall. It is a bad idea. He should drop it and save face. Focus on illegal immigrants and get rid of them while giving the smart, hard working ones a chance to become citizens. The wall is a waste of time and money, a bandage on a broken leg.
---

Its a good deal.
---

Any dreamer that wants to stay should be required to build the wall, that will show their allegiance to America.
---

Why does his wall need a trust fund when he said Mexico is going to pay for it?
---

iClockwork posted...

Any dreamer that wants to stay should be required to build the wall, that will show their allegiance to America.

People who want the wall should pay for it and build it.
---

Newhopes posted...

As a whole illegal immigrants are a fiscally loss to the economy mainly to local states rather than federal revenue , they also harm the native population in the way of job losses and wage suppression.

If they are net-positive to society, they should stay. And criminals that are a burden to society need to go. Not my idea. See Obama. And im not proposing a pathway to citizenship to all illegals.
---

creativerealms posted...

People who want the wall should pay for it and build it.

Nope the people that came here illegally should pay restitution for their crimes.
---

Considering the wall is going to cost an estimated 60 billion, what will that 25 cover?
---

008Zulu posted...

Considering the wall is going to cost an estimated 60 billion, what will that 25 cover?

the second half of the prototype
---

iClockwork posted...

creativerealms posted...

People who want the wall should pay for it and build it.

Nope the people that came here illegally should pay restitution for their crimes.

Thinking that the criminal court system should fund your political party of choice's political ideas seems very fascistic.

008Zulu posted...

Considering the wall is going to cost an estimated 60 billion, what will that 25 cover?

Hopefully the money will sit there until they deal with all the inevitable lawsuits. Construction will be delayed because you cant build on private property without fair compensation. The ambiguity of being 'fair' will be exploited by landowners and lawsuits will stretch for years. Trump doesn't have that time. 2018 elections are right around the corner. Its too late for trump to build the wall which is why democrats need to take the deal. Win/win. Trump is a terrible negotiator.
---

Here's a fun fact: the wall, when laid out over a map of Europe, would stretch from Paris to the Black Sea
---

iClockwork posted...

creativerealms posted...

People who want the wall should pay for it and build it.

Nope the people that came here illegally should pay restitution for their crimes.

Yeah have them become legal iClockwork posted...

creativerealms posted...

People who want the wall should pay for it and build it.

Nope the people that came here illegally should pay restitution for their crimes.

But that doesn't make the wall any dumber. Only by having the people who want it pay for and build the wall can that monument of stupidity be worth it.
---

Republicans would never pass this. lol, fucking path to citizenship?
Anyways, this seems like a good enough deal for either side really. Let's watch it fail because lol congress.
---