Current Events > Satan worship is not real and is just an attempt to antagonize Christians...yes?

(+) Yeah! (+)

3deep5u posted...

No, there are Satanists with legitimately well thought out and compassionate values. They're not hedonists in any way.

care to give an example?

@HylianFox posted...

Job is a pretty weird book all-around, and am surprised it was even put in the Bible, as it largely portrays God as being a massive dick who f***s with people because He can.

To be fair, the book actually showed Satan wanting f*** with Job and God allowed it. If you want to blame God, so be it. But it is funny if for instance a satanist would use this to say God is a dick when the one whose name they carry is the being who killed all Job's kids.
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darkphoenix181 posted...

care to give an example?

I'd have to ask my friend to give his sources, but he is usually correct about stuff like this.

darkphoenix181 posted...

But it is funny if for instance a satanist would use this to say God is a dick when the one whose name they carry is the being who killed all Job's kids.

But God allowed it. He is God. He is in control of everything, and everything comes back to Him allowing shit to happen.
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3deep5u posted...

But God allowed it. He is God. He is in control of everything, and everything comes back to Him allowing s*** to happen.

How does this take away blame from Satan?
If Hitler allowed a soldier to do what he wanted to a certain town, but he didn't command the soldier to do anything, we free this soldier of blame?
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3deep5u posted...

darkphoenix181 posted...

care to give an example?

I'd have to ask my friend to give his sources, but he is usually correct about stuff like this.

darkphoenix181 posted...

But it is funny if for instance a satanist would use this to say God is a dick when the one whose name they carry is the being who killed all Job's kids.

But God allowed it. He is God. He is in control of everything, and everything comes back to Him allowing shit to happen.

Points for capitalizing Him.

But Bible also makes it REALLY effing clear that we aren't supposed to be ethically judging His acts, like at all.
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Very_Unreliable posted...

But Bible also makes it REALLY effing clear that we aren't supposed to be ethically judging his acts, like at all.

What verses?

I'm getting back into praying and reading the Bible, but I still think that Christianity as a religious institution is very flawed and filled with psychopathic leaders and hypocrites.

I have a very different interpretation of the Bible personally. How can so many religious leaders disagree on very fundamental things when they're all supposedly led by the Holy Spirit?

Another thing is that most Christians don't like to be asked questions or to think critically about their views.

Christianity is dying in developed countries for a good reason.
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Incorrect. There are different types of satanists and while some do it, solely to rebel or antagonize, others don't.
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I smell a victim complex and it's coming from TC's direction.
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3deep5u posted...

Very_Unreliable posted...

But Bible also makes it REALLY effing clear that we aren't supposed to be ethically judging his acts, like at all.

What verses?

I'm getting back into praying and reading the Bible, but I still think that Christianity as a religious institution is very flawed and filled with psychopathic leaders and hypocrites.

I have a very different interpretation of the Bible personally. How can so many religious leaders disagree on very fundamental things when they're all supposedly led by the Holy Spirit?

Another thing is that most Christians don't like to be asked questions or to think critically about their views.

Christianity is dying in developed countries for a good reason.

All Churches will claim to be led by the Holy Spirit. Just like all Roman Emperors would claim descent from some eponymous founder. I think I've a very different experience with Christians than you do; because I'm VERY pleased with a Christian's willingness to politely debate and hear criticisms, esp when compared with adherents of ... other religions.

Christians ARE the most tolerant major religion, I am pretty willing to debate someone on that, and of course am willing to hear dissenting viewpoints. I've lived in Nepal and Bhutan for 1 year total, I was deployed to Kuwait and UAE, lived in Turkey for a NATO exercise. I am friends with many people of a few different faiths; and was raised Christian Presbyterian and went to a religious boarding school for 4 years.
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Sonicblack35 posted...

I smell a victim complex and it's coming from TC's direction.

While I am sympathetic to Christianity and faithful Christians in general, I am irreligious.
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darkphoenix181 posted...

If Hitler allowed a soldier to do what he wanted to a certain town, but he didn't command the soldier to do anything, we free this soldier of blame?

God decided the fate of everyone. Hitler did not. God can't be omniscient and omnipotent and give us free will.
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3deep5u posted...

darkphoenix181 posted...

If Hitler allowed a soldier to do what he wanted to a certain town, but he didn't command the soldier to do anything, we free this soldier of blame?

God decided the fate of everyone. Hitler did not. God can't be omniscient and omnipotent and give us free will.

Wait why not?
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Very_Unreliable posted...

Wait why not?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argument_from_free_will

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trilemma#Epicurus'_trilemma
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^nope, In your own words please.
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Very_Unreliable posted...

Sonicblack35 posted...

I smell a victim complex and it's coming from TC's direction.

While I am sympathetic to Christianity and faithful Christians in general, I am irreligious.

Could be, but you have been very defensive this entire topic. If you aren't religious, why do you care if people mock Christianity? Several posters have even SAID that there are different types of Satanism and while some do mock, some are serious about their worship (answering your question). Instead you change focus to only those that are making fun of Christianity.
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3deep5u posted...

How can so many religious leaders disagree on very fundamental things when they're all supposedly led by the Holy Spirit?

Humans are humans. No one has inspiration like in the days of the early church. Also, Paul criticized Peter for being scared of hanging around the gentile Christians because the jewish ones didn't like them.

He was a man who had inspiration and infact had the vision that brought salvation to the gentiles.

So if Peter can be subdued by his humanity and flesh, everyone today can definitely be. That is why you should read it yourself and not just go with some dudes opinion.

The best example of how this works is baptism.

Is baptism essential? What do you think?

If you honestly read the text, can you can conclude it is not? Does the innerworking of baptism preclude it from salvation?

Read Romans 6.

Read how early Christians were saved like in acts 8 (baptized).

Read 1 Peter 3:21

Now then, how can people claim it is unnecesarry and done after you are saved?

It is very simple. They think of some weird doomsday scenario where a man is on a train about to collide into another train and at the moment he believes in God. He cannot be baptized in that time frame.
Is he saved? They would say of course.

Therefore you don't need to be baptized.

But do you see what just happened? This did not come from the scriptures. This came from mental gymnastics.
Scripturally, how are you saved?

Nevertheless, this is quite off topic.
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I have to go running so I'll give a quick rundown of how I understand it.

If God knows everything and is outside time then as soon as he conceived of this universe, our fate was already sealed. There's no room for free will because it was decided outside of any time or space what we would do with our lives.

He also has the power to conceive of a universe where we all "decide" from our own "free will" to do the right thing. He chose this one or played the lottery. I don't think it's possible for an all knowing god to ever play the lottery.
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@3deep5u posted...

darkphoenix181 posted...

If Hitler allowed a soldier to do what he wanted to a certain town, but he didn't command the soldier to do anything, we free this soldier of blame?

God decided the fate of everyone. Hitler did not. God can't be omniscient and omnipotent and give us free will.

So then if I kill you, I am free from blame?

God killed you, not me. Because he fated me to kill you.

Right?

And by that logic...did Hitler kill anyone?
See, a problem there?
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Free-will as it is; is a concept that allows you to make choices, but aren't ALL of your choices present on the timeline, a dimension that is a creation of God? Why does your free-will have to be free of God? If God as a concept is; then why do you and your choices have to transcend Him? That wiki page is a product of human ego.
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darkphoenix181 posted...

@3deep5u posted...

darkphoenix181 posted...

If Hitler allowed a soldier to do what he wanted to a certain town, but he didn't command the soldier to do anything, we free this soldier of blame?

God decided the fate of everyone. Hitler did not. God can't be omniscient and omnipotent and give us free will.

So then if I kill you, I am free from blame?

God killed you, not me. Because he fated me to kill you.

Right?

And by that logic...did Hitler kill anyone?
See, a problem there?

Try pulling god into a court of law. Hitler was neither omniscient nor omnipotent.
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Truly putting God on trial for the actions of man, either because man is a creation of God or because the act was pre-ordained by God, is silly and egotistical. Perhaps, and I'm not saying this is why, but perhaps it was that this occurred so nations would come together against it? We're not supposed to understand it, but be as close to God as you can, you have free-will (just not freedom from God), if that's what you believe, or at least be a good human being. Idc what anyone believes Christian or otherwise, I just don't like jerks who needlessly antagonize peaceful groups of people, but they're free to do so just as I am free to mock them in kind.
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Very_Unreliable posted...

Truly putting God on trial for the actions of man, either because man is a creation of God or because the act was pre-ordained by God, is silly and egotistical. Perhaps, and I'm not saying this is why, but perhaps it was that this occurred so nations would come together against it? We're not supposed to understand it, but be as close to God as you can, you have free-will (just not freedom from God), if that's what you believe, or at least be a good human being. Idc what anyone believes Christian or otherwise, I just don't like jerks who needlessly antagonize peaceful groups of people, but they're free to do so just as I am free to mock them in kind.

I think you missed the point of my sarcasm. In order for dark to avoid blame, you have to assume that there is a god and that they are omniscient and omnipotent. Neither of those assumptions can be proven, so dark has no legal recourse for his actions.

That's fair to dislike those who needlessly antagonize peaceful groups. No one has the right to be a dick. Why make this about Satanism though? If you just don't like trolls there are plenty of those around. Hell, even Christianity has them. Those who stand outside Planned Parenthoods with the intention of traumatizing expectant mothers (who do not want the child) into avoiding abortion, for example.
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christians are loonies

especially the kind that believe they're peaceful
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Sonicblack35 posted...

Very_Unreliable posted...

Truly putting God on trial for the actions of man, either because man is a creation of God or because the act was pre-ordained by God, is silly and egotistical. Perhaps, and I'm not saying this is why, but perhaps it was that this occurred so nations would come together against it? We're not supposed to understand it, but be as close to God as you can, you have free-will (just not freedom from God), if that's what you believe, or at least be a good human being. Idc what anyone believes Christian or otherwise, I just don't like jerks who needlessly antagonize peaceful groups of people, but they're free to do so just as I am free to mock them in kind.

I think you missed the point of my sarcasm. In order for dark to avoid blame, you have to assume that there is a god and that they are omniscient and omnipotent. Neither of those assumptions can be proven, so dark has no legal recourse for his actions.

That's fair to dislike those who needlessly antagonize peaceful groups. No one has the right to be a dick. Why make this about Satanism though? If you just don't like trolls there are plenty of those around. Hell, even Christianity has them. Those who stand outside Planned Parenthoods with the intention of traumatizing expectant mothers (who do not want the child) into avoiding abortion, for example.

Oh they do that because "expectant mothers" are literally killing human beings. Sorry, not even gonna debate that, I don't love their way of doing it, but I TOTALLY understand it.
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Very_Unreliable posted...

Sonicblack35 posted...

Very_Unreliable posted...

Truly putting God on trial for the actions of man, either because man is a creation of God or because the act was pre-ordained by God, is silly and egotistical. Perhaps, and I'm not saying this is why, but perhaps it was that this occurred so nations would come together against it? We're not supposed to understand it, but be as close to God as you can, you have free-will (just not freedom from God), if that's what you believe, or at least be a good human being. Idc what anyone believes Christian or otherwise, I just don't like jerks who needlessly antagonize peaceful groups of people, but they're free to do so just as I am free to mock them in kind.

I think you missed the point of my sarcasm. In order for dark to avoid blame, you have to assume that there is a god and that they are omniscient and omnipotent. Neither of those assumptions can be proven, so dark has no legal recourse for his actions.

That's fair to dislike those who needlessly antagonize peaceful groups. No one has the right to be a dick. Why make this about Satanism though? If you just don't like trolls there are plenty of those around. Hell, even Christianity has them. Those who stand outside Planned Parenthoods with the intention of traumatizing expectant mothers (who do not want the child) into avoiding abortion, for example.

Oh they do that because "expectant mothers" are literally killing human beings. Sorry, not even gonna debate that, I don't love their way of doing it, but I TOTALLY understand it.

Cool. So the Satanists who mock Christians are doing it because you they don't want those Christians to waste their lives following a false god. They're potentially liberating plenty of lives that already exist from the chains binding them. Meanwhile these poor mothers who can't afford a child and have already made the INCREDIBLY difficult choice to abort the fetus are forced to undergo public torment from a few self-appointed lawmen. See how easy it is to justify one set of trolls while demonizing another?

Edit: The point of this isn't to start talking about abortion, but to clarify that for someone who is "irreligious" you seem to hold the perspective that Christians are a group that are being attacked and must be protected when they very much aren't.
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it's mostly a really bad meme but there's obviously gonna be a couple people who legitimately believe in it

You don't see many Iblis worshippers these days...
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