Current Events > Tim Faust of Chapo Trap House is going to talk medicare for all to the local DSA

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Balrog0 01/17/18 1:18:02 PM #1:	DSA: democratic socialists of America He also works in PR for an insurance company and is pursuing an MPA in health policy so presumably he knows what he's. taking about Im definitely going to attend. Anyone ever heard of him? I. don't listen to trap house but I've read his work in the jacobin --- He would make his mark, if not on this tree, then on that wall; if not with teeth and claws, then with penknife and razor. <cite>Balrog0 posted [p:894232460] in Tim Faust ... [t:76211806]...</cite> <quote>DSA: democratic socialists of America He also works in PR for an insurance company and is pursuing an MPA in health policy so presumably he knows what he's. taking about Im definitely going to attend. Anyone ever heard of him? I. don't listen to trap house but I've read his work in the jacobin</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
FLUFFYGERM 01/17/18 1:30:18 PM #2:	No, but I work in healthcare / health insurance. If we want more affordable healthcare, even to the tune of being able to sustainably fund it a la taxation, we need to eliminate obesity and smoking. Obesity represents around 21% of yearly healthcare expenditures in America. Smoking represents around 9%. Those are just the costs we know of. We haven't yet experienced the full brunt of the obesity epidemic. Without solving these two issues, any conversations on universal healthcare or medicare for all are completely impossible. --- but Marxist theory is extremely consistent, both internally and with reality. -averagejeol <cite>FLUFFYGERM posted [p:894233139] in Tim Faust ... [t:76211806]...</cite> <quote>No, but I work in healthcare / health insurance. If we want more affordable healthcare, even to the tune of being able to sustainably fund it a la taxation, we need to eliminate obesity and smoking. Obesity represents around 21% of yearly healthcare expenditures in America. Smoking represents around 9%. Those are just the costs we know of. We haven't yet experienced the full brunt of the obesity epidemic. Without solving these two issues, any conversations on universal healthcare or medicare for all are completely impossible.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Paper_Okami 01/17/18 1:49:13 PM #3:	Tim Faust is unrelated to Chapo --- "Conceit, arrogance and egotism are the essentials of patriotism"- Emma Goldman "Wimmy Wham Wham Wozzle!" -Slurms MacKenzie <cite>Paper_Okami posted [p:894234222] in Tim Faust ... [t:76211806]...</cite> <quote>Tim Faust is unrelated to Chapo</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
AlephZero 01/17/18 1:58:07 PM #4:	who --- "There is value in segregation." - qwertyman2002 01001100 01010101 01000101 00100000 00110100 00110000 00110010 <cite>AlephZero posted [p:894234772] in Tim Faust ... [t:76211806]...</cite> <quote>who</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Balrog0 01/17/18 2:08:21 PM #5:	Paper_Okami posted... Tim Faust is unrelated to Chapo https://www.jacobinmag.com/author/timothy-faust Timothy Faust is the Chapo Trap House health care correspondent* and is pursuing a MPA in health policy and finance at NYU's Wagner Graduate School of Public Service.* if that's not true, my bad; like I said, I only know of him through the Jacobin AlephZero posted... who some dude --- He would make his mark, if not on this tree, then on that wall; if not with teeth and claws, then with penknife and razor. <cite>Balrog0 posted [p:894235315] in Tim Faust ... [t:76211806]...</cite> <quote><cite>Paper_Okami posted...</cite> <quote>Tim Faust is unrelated to Chapo</quote> https://www.jacobinmag.com/author/timothy-faust Timothy Faust is the Chapo Trap House health care correspondent and is pursuing a MPA in health policy and finance at NYU's Wagner Graduate School of Public Service. if that's not true, my bad; like I said, I only know of him through the Jacobin <cite>AlephZero posted...</cite> <quote>who</quote> some dude</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
AlephZero 01/17/18 2:10:58 PM #6:	chapo trap house sounds like a transvestite brothel --- "There is value in segregation." - qwertyman2002 01001100 01010101 01000101 00100000 00110100 00110000 00110010 <cite>AlephZero posted [p:894235469] in Tim Faust ... [t:76211806]...</cite> <quote>chapo trap house sounds like a transvestite brothel</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Balrog0 01/17/18 2:11:18 PM #7:	AlephZero posted... chapo trap house sounds like a transvestite brothel I think its some leftist podcast so basically m i rite?! --- He would make his mark, if not on this tree, then on that wall; if not with teeth and claws, then with penknife and razor. <cite>Balrog0 posted [p:894235498] in Tim Faust ... [t:76211806]...</cite> <quote><cite>AlephZero posted...</cite> <quote>chapo trap house sounds like a transvestite brothel</quote> I think its some leftist podcast so basically m i rite?!</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Antifar 01/17/18 2:12:41 PM #8:	I was all set to see him in Buffalo, but he got sick the night before and had to cancel :( He gives a pretty inspirational speech from what I've heard. --- kin to all that throbs <cite>Antifar posted [p:894235583] in Tim Faust ... [t:76211806]...</cite> <quote>I was all set to see him in Buffalo, but he got sick the night before and had to cancel :( He gives a pretty inspirational speech from what I've heard.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
FLUFFYGERM 01/17/18 2:18:01 PM #9:	Antifar posted... I was all set to see him in Buffalo, but he got sick the night before and had to cancel :( He gives a pretty inspirational speech from what I've heard. Inspirational, meaning he tickles emotions? Or does he actually provide real solutions to problems? Serious question. Does he have a solution for obesity/smoking/etc or is his solution "just throw money at the problem and expect taxpayers to foot the bill" or etc? --- but Marxist theory is extremely consistent, both internally and with reality. -averagejeol <cite>FLUFFYGERM posted [p:894235892] in Tim Faust ... [t:76211806]...</cite> <quote><cite>Antifar posted...</cite> <quote>I was all set to see him in Buffalo, but he got sick the night before and had to cancel :( He gives a pretty inspirational speech from what I've heard.</quote> Inspirational, meaning he tickles emotions? Or does he actually provide real solutions to problems? Serious question. Does he have a solution for obesity/smoking/etc or is his solution "just throw money at the problem and expect taxpayers to foot the bill" or etc?</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Questionmarktarius 01/17/18 2:23:34 PM #10:	FLUFFYGERM posted... Does he have a solution for obesity/smoking/etc There's not going to be a "solution", outside of tyranny. <cite>Questionmarktarius posted [p:894236216] in Tim Faust ... [t:76211806]...</cite> <quote><cite>FLUFFYGERM posted...</cite> <quote>Does he have a solution for obesity/smoking/etc</quote> There's not going to be a "solution", outside of tyranny.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
AlephZero 01/17/18 2:24:08 PM #11:	a final solution --- "There is value in segregation." - qwertyman2002 01001100 01010101 01000101 00100000 00110100 00110000 00110010 <cite>AlephZero posted [p:894236251] in Tim Faust ... [t:76211806]...</cite> <quote>a final solution</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
FLUFFYGERM 01/17/18 2:25:25 PM #12:	Questionmarktarius posted... FLUFFYGERM posted... Does he have a solution for obesity/smoking/etc There's not going to be a "solution", outside of tyranny. More PE in school, better education on nutrition, financial incentives for maintaining your health, etc. All possible solutions. --- but Marxist theory is extremely consistent, both internally and with reality. -averagejeol <cite>FLUFFYGERM posted [p:894236328] in Tim Faust ... [t:76211806]...</cite> <quote><cite>Questionmarktarius posted...</cite> <quote><cite>FLUFFYGERM posted...</cite> <quote>Does he have a solution for obesity/smoking/etc</quote> There's not going to be a "solution", outside of tyranny.</quote> More PE in school, better education on nutrition, financial incentives for maintaining your health, etc. All possible solutions.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Antifar 01/17/18 2:27:20 PM #13:	Smoking is hardly a problem exclusive to the US. At any rate, a theme Faust harps on is that single-payer healthcare is just one tool towards the broader goal of what he calls health justice, and not the be-all and end-all. Here's something he wrote: https://jacobinmag.com/2017/10/single-payer-medicare-for-all-bernie-sanders The real problem is that in America, health care unit costs are too high, and we rack up those costs in ways that prevent us from allocating our health care spending toward better, more just care for all people. Conservative claims notwithstanding, the best way to force down health spending is through a single-payer scheme. As the sole purchaser, the federal government is immediately able to set just prices for health care services (for example, by negotiating the cost of drugs). With the weight of the full cost of health care falling squarely on its shoulders, it has an incentive to develop infrastructure and provide accessible primary care for all people, diverting money from low-frequency crisis care to high-frequency primary and preventive medicine. ... Fragmented and commodified, the present model treats health care as something that only happens when people are insured, not a holistic process spanning an entire life. Single-payer could begin to change this. Once the federal actor bears the costs of providing care and not providing care, it could finally be a tool for realizing health justice. If people are getting sick and dying because they dont have a place to live, or if the places they live are unsafe, then housing is health care, and you build housing to bring health care costs down. If people dont have access to healthy food to eat, then food is health care, and you provide them with affordable or free food options to bring health care costs down. If people live in fear of their personal safety if they are assaulted or beaten at home, at work, by the police, or by their domestic partners then safety is a form of health care, and you provide safe havens for them to bring health care costs down. In other words, a single-payer program is not the goal. Single-payer on its own cannot be the goal. Single-payer does not solve the biggest sin of commodified health care: that taking care of sick people isnt profitable, and any profit-driven insurance system thus disregards the most vulnerable. --- kin to all that throbs <cite>Antifar posted [p:894236436] in Tim Faust ... [t:76211806]...</cite> <quote>Smoking is hardly a problem exclusive to the US. At any rate, a theme Faust harps on is that single-payer healthcare is just one tool towards the broader goal of what he calls health justice, and not the be-all and end-all. Here's something he wrote: https://jacobinmag.com/2017/10/single-payer-medicare-for-all-bernie-sanders <quote>The real problem is that in America, health care unit costs are too high, and we rack up those costs in ways that prevent us from allocating our health care spending toward better, more just care for all people. Conservative claims notwithstanding, the best way to force down health spending is through a single-payer scheme. As the sole purchaser, the federal government is immediately able to set just prices for health care services (for example, by negotiating the cost of drugs). With the weight of the full cost of health care falling squarely on its shoulders, it has an incentive to develop infrastructure and provide accessible primary care for all people, diverting money from low-frequency crisis care to high-frequency primary and preventive medicine. ... Fragmented and commodified, the present model treats health care as something that only happens when people are insured, not a holistic process spanning an entire life. Single-payer could begin to change this. Once the federal actor bears the costs of providing care and not providing care, it could finally be a tool for realizing health justice. If people are getting sick and dying because they dont have a place to live, or if the places they live are unsafe, then housing is health care, and you build housing to bring health care costs down. If people dont have access to healthy food to eat, then food is health care, and you provide them with affordable or free food options to bring health care costs down. If people live in fear of their personal safety if they are assaulted or beaten at home, at work, by the police, or by their domestic partners then safety is a form of health care, and you provide safe havens for them to bring health care costs down. In other words, a single-payer program is not the goal. Single-payer on its own cannot be the goal. Single-payer does not solve the biggest sin of commodified health care: that taking care of sick people isnt profitable, and any profit-driven insurance system thus disregards the most vulnerable. </quote></quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Questionmarktarius 01/17/18 2:32:05 PM #14:	FLUFFYGERM posted... More PE in school Step 1. Ditch the standardized tests. better education on nutrition The letters on the NUTRITION FACTS labels can't really get much bigger. Canadian-style cigarette labels, however, would be amusing - possibly even collectible. financial incentives for maintaining your health, etc. No sales tax on any foodstuff that's one ingredient, or one ingredient and water. Or, we can take the "stick" approach, and ban tobacco and place a ludicrous excise tax on salt and sugar. Let's see how long that lasts before the black market moves in. <cite>Questionmarktarius posted [p:894236729] in Tim Faust ... [t:76211806]...</cite> <quote><cite>FLUFFYGERM posted...</cite> <quote>More PE in school</quote>Step 1. Ditch the standardized tests. <quote> better education on nutrition</quote>The letters on the NUTRITION FACTS labels can't really get much bigger. Canadian-style cigarette labels, however, would be amusing - possibly even collectible. <quote>financial incentives for maintaining your health, etc.</quote>No sales tax on any foodstuff that's one ingredient, or one ingredient and water. Or, we can take the "stick" approach, and ban tobacco and place a ludicrous excise tax on salt and sugar. Let's see how long that lasts before the black market moves in.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Balrog0 01/17/18 2:33:34 PM #15:	Antifar posted... Smoking is hardly a problem exclusive to the US. At any rate, a theme Faust harps on is that single-payer healthcare is just one tool towards the broader goal of what he calls health justice, and not the be-all and end-all. Here's something he wrote: https://jacobinmag.com/2017/10/single-payer-medicare-for-all-bernie-sanders The real problem is that in America, health care unit costs are too high, and we rack up those costs in ways that prevent us from allocating our health care spending toward better, more just care for all people. Conservative claims notwithstanding, the best way to force down health spending is through a single-payer scheme. As the sole purchaser, the federal government is immediately able to set just prices for health care services (for example, by negotiating the cost of drugs). With the weight of the full cost of health care falling squarely on its shoulders, it has an incentive to develop infrastructure and provide accessible primary care for all people, diverting money from low-frequency crisis care to high-frequency primary and preventive medicine. ... Fragmented and commodified, the present model treats health care as something that only happens when people are insured, not a holistic process spanning an entire life. Single-payer could begin to change this. Once the federal actor bears the costs of providing care and not providing care, it could finally be a tool for realizing health justice. If people are getting sick and dying because they dont have a place to live, or if the places they live are unsafe, then housing is health care, and you build housing to bring health care costs down. If people dont have access to healthy food to eat, then food is health care, and you provide them with affordable or free food options to bring health care costs down. If people live in fear of their personal safety if they are assaulted or beaten at home, at work, by the police, or by their domestic partners then safety is a form of health care, and you provide safe havens for them to bring health care costs down. In other words, a single-payer program is not the goal. Single-payer on its own cannot be the goal. Single-payer does not solve the biggest sin of commodified health care: that taking care of sick people isnt profitable, and any profit-driven insurance system thus disregards the most vulnerable. yeah I have a lot of questions for him --- He would make his mark, if not on this tree, then on that wall; if not with teeth and claws, then with penknife and razor. <cite>Balrog0 posted [p:894236804] in Tim Faust ... [t:76211806]...</cite> <quote><cite>Antifar posted...</cite> <quote>Smoking is hardly a problem exclusive to the US. At any rate, a theme Faust harps on is that single-payer healthcare is just one tool towards the broader goal of what he calls health justice, and not the be-all and end-all. Here's something he wrote: https://jacobinmag.com/2017/10/single-payer-medicare-for-all-bernie-sanders <quote>The real problem is that in America, health care unit costs are too high, and we rack up those costs in ways that prevent us from allocating our health care spending toward better, more just care for all people. Conservative claims notwithstanding, the best way to force down health spending is through a single-payer scheme. As the sole purchaser, the federal government is immediately able to set just prices for health care services (for example, by negotiating the cost of drugs). With the weight of the full cost of health care falling squarely on its shoulders, it has an incentive to develop infrastructure and provide accessible primary care for all people, diverting money from low-frequency crisis care to high-frequency primary and preventive medicine. ... Fragmented and commodified, the present model treats health care as something that only happens when people are insured, not a holistic process spanning an entire life. Single-payer could begin to change this. Once the federal actor bears the costs of providing care and not providing care, it could finally be a tool for realizing health justice. If people are getting sick and dying because they dont have a place to live, or if the places they live are unsafe, then housing is health care, and you build housing to bring health care costs down. If people dont have access to healthy food to eat, then food is health care, and you provide them with affordable or free food options to bring health care costs down. If people live in fear of their personal safety if they are assaulted or beaten at home, at work, by the police, or by their domestic partners then safety is a form of health care, and you provide safe havens for them to bring health care costs down. In other words, a single-payer program is not the goal. Single-payer on its own cannot be the goal. Single-payer does not solve the biggest sin of commodified health care: that taking care of sick people isnt profitable, and any profit-driven insurance system thus disregards the most vulnerable. </quote></quote> yeah I have a lot of questions for him</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
FLUFFYGERM 01/17/18 2:34:02 PM #16:	I didn't say smoking was exclusive to the US. I said that smoking represents 9% of our yearly healthcare expenditures. That's an enormous sum of money to dish out each year on an absolutely horrendous activity. We need a solution for it. Obesity and smoking are arguably two massive factors in why healthcare costs so much. It'd cost 30% less, perhaps even more, if we eliminated these two issues. His perspective on how the federal government can force costs through cost setting is a complete disaster because it ignores the ramifications of price setting at the federal level. Why not have the government dictate the price for rent? For work? For food and automobiles and everything else? Out right dictate, not just subsidize. When the government sets the prices, that will have a negative effect on healthcare. Example: Suppose the federal government sets the price of treatment in such a way that there are now shortages due to not enough people becoming surgeons/nurses/staff. What then? The best solution is to eliminate the need for treatment, so that the supply of treatment can go towards the sicknesses that have no easy solution. Obesity and smoking should not exist - they are vices that could be easily eliminated for a healthier population. --- but Marxist theory is extremely consistent, both internally and with reality. -averagejeol <cite>FLUFFYGERM posted [p:894236829] in Tim Faust ... [t:76211806]...</cite> <quote>I didn't say smoking was exclusive to the US. I said that smoking represents 9% of our yearly healthcare expenditures. That's an enormous sum of money to dish out each year on an absolutely horrendous activity. We need a solution for it. Obesity and smoking are arguably two massive factors in why healthcare costs so much. It'd cost 30% less, perhaps even more, if we eliminated these two issues. His perspective on how the federal government can force costs through cost setting is a complete disaster because it ignores the ramifications of price setting at the federal level. Why not have the government dictate the price for rent? For work? For food and automobiles and everything else? Out right dictate, not just subsidize. When the government sets the prices, that will have a negative effect on healthcare. Example: Suppose the federal government sets the price of treatment in such a way that there are now shortages due to not enough people becoming surgeons/nurses/staff. What then? The best solution is to eliminate the need for treatment, so that the supply of treatment can go towards the sicknesses that have no easy solution. Obesity and smoking should not exist - they are vices that could be easily eliminated for a healthier population.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Gafemage 01/17/18 2:34:52 PM #17:	For some reason it feels really weird seeing a topic about Chapo Trap House on CE. --- http://imgur.com/1EOFcjn http://imgur.com/epjd8zk <cite>Gafemage posted [p:894236888] in Tim Faust ... [t:76211806]...</cite> <quote>For some reason it feels really weird seeing a topic about Chapo Trap House on CE.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Antifar 01/17/18 2:38:27 PM #18:	Gafemage posted... For some reason it feels really weird seeing a topic about Chapo Trap House on CE. Hellworld, baby --- kin to all that throbs <cite>Antifar posted [p:894237113] in Tim Faust ... [t:76211806]...</cite> <quote><cite>Gafemage posted...</cite> <quote>For some reason it feels really weird seeing a topic about Chapo Trap House on CE.</quote> Hellworld, baby</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
MrPeppers 01/17/18 2:38:58 PM #19:	Antifar posted... Smoking is hardly a problem exclusive to the US. Even then you conveniently ignore obesity, which seems to be a problem that the US in particular faces. Cardiovascular problems and diabetes are very, very attributable to diet and sedentary lifestyle; and if we somehow drive down the obesity epidemic then healthcare costs will plummet. --- http://i.imgur.com/SGkkbF0.png <cite>MrPeppers posted [p:894237147] in Tim Faust ... [t:76211806]...</cite> <quote><cite>Antifar posted...</cite> <quote>Smoking is hardly a problem exclusive to the US. </quote> Even then you conveniently ignore obesity, which seems to be a problem that the US in particular faces. Cardiovascular problems and diabetes are very, very attributable to diet and sedentary lifestyle; and if we somehow drive down the obesity epidemic then healthcare costs will plummet.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Questionmarktarius 01/17/18 2:39:01 PM #20:	Antifar posted... Here's something he wrote: Just seems like an idealistic utopia that's not really plausible or practical. <cite>Questionmarktarius posted [p:894237151] in Tim Faust ... [t:76211806]...</cite> <quote><cite>Antifar posted...</cite> <quote>Here's something he wrote:</quote> Just seems like an idealistic utopia that's not really plausible or practical.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
FLUFFYGERM 01/17/18 2:40:09 PM #21:	Questionmarktarius posted... Antifar posted... Here's something he wrote: Just seems like an idealistic utopia that's not really plausible or practical. I mean what else would you expect from an individual more concerned with this month's flavor of "justice" rather than reality? --- but Marxist theory is extremely consistent, both internally and with reality. -averagejeol <cite>FLUFFYGERM posted [p:894237226] in Tim Faust ... [t:76211806]...</cite> <quote><cite>Questionmarktarius posted...</cite> <quote><cite>Antifar posted...</cite> <quote>Here's something he wrote:</quote> Just seems like an idealistic utopia that's not really plausible or practical.</quote> I mean what else would you expect from an individual more concerned with this month's flavor of "justice" rather than reality?</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Balrog0 01/17/18 2:41:34 PM #22:	Questionmarktarius posted... Antifar posted... Here's something he wrote: Just seems like an idealistic utopia that's not really plausible or practical. why not? I have several issues with it but I'm keeping my powder dry or w/e --- He would make his mark, if not on this tree, then on that wall; if not with teeth and claws, then with penknife and razor. <cite>Balrog0 posted [p:894237309] in Tim Faust ... [t:76211806]...</cite> <quote><cite>Questionmarktarius posted...</cite> <quote><cite>Antifar posted...</cite> <quote>Here's something he wrote:</quote> Just seems like an idealistic utopia that's not really plausible or practical.</quote> why not? I have several issues with it but I'm keeping my powder dry or w/e</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
FLUFFYGERM 01/17/18 2:42:04 PM #23:	Balrog0 posted... Questionmarktarius posted... Antifar posted... Here's something he wrote: Just seems like an idealistic utopia that's not really plausible or practical. why not? I have several issues with it but I'm keeping my powder dry or w/e See post #2 and post #16 --- but Marxist theory is extremely consistent, both internally and with reality. -averagejeol <cite>FLUFFYGERM posted [p:894237341] in Tim Faust ... [t:76211806]...</cite> <quote><cite>Balrog0 posted...</cite> <quote><cite>Questionmarktarius posted...</cite> <quote><cite>Antifar posted...</cite> <quote>Here's something he wrote:</quote> Just seems like an idealistic utopia that's not really plausible or practical.</quote> why not? I have several issues with it but I'm keeping my powder dry or w/e</quote> See post #2 and post #16</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Webmaster4531 01/17/18 2:43:44 PM #24:	Questionmarktarius posted... Antifar posted... Here's something he wrote: Just seems like an idealistic utopia that's not really plausible or practical. What was your stance on anarcho laissez faire capitalism? Private roads? --- Ad Hominem. <cite>Webmaster4531 posted [p:894237434] in Tim Faust ... [t:76211806]...</cite> <quote><cite>Questionmarktarius posted...</cite> <quote><cite>Antifar posted...</cite> <quote>Here's something he wrote:</quote> Just seems like an idealistic utopia that's not really plausible or practical.</quote> What was your stance on anarcho laissez faire capitalism? Private roads?</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Questionmarktarius 01/17/18 2:51:01 PM #25:	Balrog0 posted... Questionmarktarius posted... Antifar posted... Here's something he wrote: Just seems like an idealistic utopia that's not really plausible or practical. why not? I have several issues with it but I'm keeping my powder dry or w/e tl;dr version: [insert a handful of Thomas Sowell quotes here, then a bunch of links about French wealth flight, and maybe also some Ayn Rand quotes] The long version is, we could do all those things, right now. It just wouldn't be pretty, or particularly enjoyable. If people are getting sick and dying because they dont have a place to live, or if the places they live are unsafe, then housing is health care, and you build housing to bring health care costs down. We're already doing this, right now. Yet, crime is rampant in "the projects", and we get nothing but complaints about "poor doors" and denial of tennis courts when set-asides are mandated in high-end developments. If people dont have access to healthy food to eat, then food is health care, and you provide them with affordable or free food options to bring health care costs down. We're also already doing this, right now. https://www.fns.usda.gov/snap/supplemental-nutrition-assistance-program-snap If people live in fear of their personal safety if they are assaulted or beaten at home, at work, by the police, or by their domestic partners then safety is a form of health care, and you provide safe havens for them to bring health care costs down. I, uh, actually have no idea what Faust is advocating here. <cite>Questionmarktarius posted [p:894237865] in Tim Faust ... [t:76211806]...</cite> <quote><cite>Balrog0 posted...</cite> <quote><cite>Questionmarktarius posted...</cite> <quote><cite>Antifar posted...</cite> <quote>Here's something he wrote:</quote> Just seems like an idealistic utopia that's not really plausible or practical.</quote> why not? I have several issues with it but I'm keeping my powder dry or w/e</quote> tl;dr version: [insert a handful of Thomas Sowell quotes here, then a bunch of links about French wealth flight, and maybe also some Ayn Rand quotes] The long version is, we could do all those things, right now. It just wouldn't be pretty, or particularly enjoyable. <quote>If people are getting sick and dying because they dont have a place to live, or if the places they live are unsafe, then housing is health care, and you build housing to bring health care costs down. </quote>We're already doing this, right now. Yet, crime is rampant in "the projects", and we get nothing but complaints about "poor doors" and denial of tennis courts when set-asides are mandated in high-end developments. <quote>If people dont have access to healthy food to eat, then food is health care, and you provide them with affordable or free food options to bring health care costs down.</quote>We're also already doing this, right now. https://www.fns.usda.gov/snap/supplemental-nutrition-assistance-program-snap <quote>If people live in fear of their personal safety if they are assaulted or beaten at home, at work, by the police, or by their domestic partners then safety is a form of health care, and you provide safe havens for them to bring health care costs down.</quote>I, uh, actually have no idea what Faust is advocating here.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Balrog0 01/17/18 2:53:48 PM #26:	Questionmarktarius posted... We're already doing this, right now. Yet, crime is rampant in "the projects", and we get nothing but complaints about "poor doors" and denial of tennis courts when set-asides are mandated in high-end developments. Questionmarktarius posted... We're also already doing this, right now. https://www.fns.usda.gov/snap/supplemental-nutrition-assistance-program-snap these seem like very easy fixes, though, I mean medicaid has demonstration projects to help managed care organizations pay for these kind of social determinants of health and I'm sure you could make a credible argument for expanding those into new areas, particularly if you are using the federal government to function essentially as a centralized managed care organization which he alludes to wanting to do I do think the political question is relevant though --- He would make his mark, if not on this tree, then on that wall; if not with teeth and claws, then with penknife and razor. <cite>Balrog0 posted [p:894238019] in Tim Faust ... [t:76211806]...</cite> <quote><cite>Questionmarktarius posted...</cite> <quote>We're already doing this, right now. Yet, crime is rampant in "the projects", and we get nothing but complaints about "poor doors" and denial of tennis courts when set-asides are mandated in high-end developments. </quote> <cite>Questionmarktarius posted...</cite> <quote>We're also already doing this, right now. https://www.fns.usda.gov/snap/supplemental-nutrition-assistance-program-snap </quote> these seem like very easy fixes, though, I mean medicaid has demonstration projects to help managed care organizations pay for these kind of social determinants of health and I'm sure you could make a credible argument for expanding those into new areas, particularly if you are using the federal government to function essentially as a centralized managed care organization which he alludes to wanting to do I do think the political question is relevant though</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
FLUFFYGERM 01/17/18 2:56:13 PM #27:	Social determinants of health? Wat? --- but Marxist theory is extremely consistent, both internally and with reality. -averagejeol <cite>FLUFFYGERM posted [p:894238172] in Tim Faust ... [t:76211806]...</cite> <quote>Social determinants of health? Wat?</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Antifar 01/17/18 2:57:39 PM #28:	FLUFFYGERM posted... Social determinants of health? Wat? Stuff like how poverty has very real impacts on people's health. --- kin to all that throbs <cite>Antifar posted [p:894238249] in Tim Faust ... [t:76211806]...</cite> <quote><cite>FLUFFYGERM posted...</cite> <quote>Social determinants of health? Wat?</quote> Stuff like how poverty has very real impacts on people's health.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Questionmarktarius 01/17/18 2:58:04 PM #29:	Webmaster4531 posted... What was your stance on anarcho laissez faire capitalism? Private roads? I dunno. I could go on a very unhealthy rant about tollbooths, for some reason that's very likely vastly hypocritical somehow. <cite>Questionmarktarius posted [p:894238274] in Tim Faust ... [t:76211806]...</cite> <quote><cite>Webmaster4531 posted...</cite> <quote>What was your stance on anarcho laissez faire capitalism? Private roads?</quote> I dunno. I could go on a very unhealthy rant about tollbooths, for some reason that's very likely vastly hypocritical somehow.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Balrog0 01/17/18 3:00:16 PM #30:	FLUFFYGERM posted... Social determinants of health? Wat? https://www.politico.com/agenda/story/2018/01/10/long-term-health-nation-problems-000613 --- He would make his mark, if not on this tree, then on that wall; if not with teeth and claws, then with penknife and razor. <cite>Balrog0 posted [p:894238411] in Tim Faust ... [t:76211806]...</cite> <quote><cite>FLUFFYGERM posted...</cite> <quote>Social determinants of health? Wat?</quote> https://www.politico.com/agenda/story/2018/01/10/long-term-health-nation-problems-000613</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Webmaster4531 01/17/18 3:02:19 PM #31:	Questionmarktarius posted... Webmaster4531 posted... What was your stance on anarcho laissez faire capitalism? Private roads? I dunno. I could go on a very unhealthy rant about tollbooths, for some reason that's very likely vastly hypocritical somehow. If you were a libertarian like fenderbender321 saying "Just seems like an idealistic utopia that's not really plausible or practical." that would be hypocritical as hell. --- Ad Hominem. <cite>Webmaster4531 posted [p:894238534] in Tim Faust ... [t:76211806]...</cite> <quote><cite>Questionmarktarius posted...</cite> <quote><cite>Webmaster4531 posted...</cite> <quote>What was your stance on anarcho laissez faire capitalism? Private roads?</quote> I dunno. I could go on a very unhealthy rant about tollbooths, for some reason that's very likely vastly hypocritical somehow.</quote> If you were a libertarian like fenderbender321 saying "Just seems like an idealistic utopia that's not really plausible or practical." that would be hypocritical as hell.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Antifar 01/17/18 3:03:25 PM #32:	Questionmarktarius posted... If people are getting sick and dying because they dont have a place to live, or if the places they live are unsafe, then housing is health care, and you build housing to bring health care costs down. We're already doing this, right now. And the article Balr0g posted suggests it's already reducing health care costs: https://www.politico.com/agenda/story/2018/01/10/long-term-health-nation-problems-000613 In Portland, Oregon, in 2011, the city's housing bureau, in collaboration with county agencies, began placing more than 7,000 residents without homes in a large, new facility. Because most of the residents were covered by Medicaid and received healthcare from local public facilities, it was possible to track the costs of their care from the start. Within a few years, those costs had on average fallen by 55 percentadding up to an annual drop in health care costs of about $1,100 per person. A similar program in Chicago, led by the city's housing and health agency and University of Illinois Hospital, reduced health care costs by 42 percent. --- kin to all that throbs <cite>Antifar posted [p:894238601] in Tim Faust ... [t:76211806]...</cite> <quote><cite>Questionmarktarius posted...</cite> <quote><quote>If people are getting sick and dying because they dont have a place to live, or if the places they live are unsafe, then housing is health care, and you build housing to bring health care costs down. </quote>We're already doing this, right now. </quote> And the article Balr0g posted suggests it's already reducing health care costs: https://www.politico.com/agenda/story/2018/01/10/long-term-health-nation-problems-000613 <quote>In Portland, Oregon, in 2011, the city's housing bureau, in collaboration with county agencies, began placing more than 7,000 residents without homes in a large, new facility. Because most of the residents were covered by Medicaid and received healthcare from local public facilities, it was possible to track the costs of their care from the start. Within a few years, those costs had on average fallen by 55 percentadding up to an annual drop in health care costs of about $1,100 per person. A similar program in Chicago, led by the city's housing and health agency and University of Illinois Hospital, reduced health care costs by 42 percent.</quote></quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Questionmarktarius 01/17/18 3:04:23 PM #33:	Webmaster4531 posted... Questionmarktarius posted... Webmaster4531 posted... What was your stance on anarcho laissez faire capitalism? Private roads? I dunno. I could go on a very unhealthy rant about tollbooths, for some reason that's very likely vastly hypocritical somehow. If you were a libertarian like fenderbender321 saying "Just seems like an idealistic utopia that's not really plausible or practical." that would be hypocritical as hell. ooooooo. damn. Antifar posted... Questionmarktarius posted... If people are getting sick and dying because they dont have a place to live, or if the places they live are unsafe, then housing is health care, and you build housing to bring health care costs down. We're already doing this, right now. And the article Balr0g posted suggests it's already reducing health care costs: https://www.politico.com/agenda/story/2018/01/10/long-term-health-nation-problems-000613 In Portland, Oregon, in 2011, the city's housing bureau, in collaboration with county agencies, began placing more than 7,000 residents without homes in a large, new facility. Because most of the residents were covered by Medicaid and received healthcare from local public facilities, it was possible to track the costs of their care from the start. Within a few years, those costs had on average fallen by 55 percentadding up to an annual drop in health care costs of about $1,100 per person. A similar program in Chicago, led by the city's housing and health agency and University of Illinois Hospital, reduced health care costs by 42 percent. Neat. Is there any info about the facility itself? <cite>Questionmarktarius posted [p:894238657] in Tim Faust ... [t:76211806]...</cite> <quote><cite>Webmaster4531 posted...</cite> <quote><cite>Questionmarktarius posted...</cite> <quote><cite>Webmaster4531 posted...</cite> <quote>What was your stance on anarcho laissez faire capitalism? Private roads?</quote> I dunno. I could go on a very unhealthy rant about tollbooths, for some reason that's very likely vastly hypocritical somehow.</quote> If you were a libertarian like fenderbender321 saying "Just seems like an idealistic utopia that's not really plausible or practical." that would be hypocritical as hell.</quote> ooooooo. damn. <cite>Antifar posted...</cite> <quote><cite>Questionmarktarius posted...</cite> <quote><quote>If people are getting sick and dying because they dont have a place to live, or if the places they live are unsafe, then housing is health care, and you build housing to bring health care costs down. </quote>We're already doing this, right now. </quote> And the article Balr0g posted suggests it's already reducing health care costs: https://www.politico.com/agenda/story/2018/01/10/long-term-health-nation-problems-000613 <quote>In Portland, Oregon, in 2011, the city's housing bureau, in collaboration with county agencies, began placing more than 7,000 residents without homes in a large, new facility. Because most of the residents were covered by Medicaid and received healthcare from local public facilities, it was possible to track the costs of their care from the start. Within a few years, those costs had on average fallen by 55 percentadding up to an annual drop in health care costs of about $1,100 per person. A similar program in Chicago, led by the city's housing and health agency and University of Illinois Hospital, reduced health care costs by 42 percent.</quote></quote> Neat. Is there any info about the facility itself?</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
FLUFFYGERM 01/17/18 3:18:33 PM #34:	When people don't mention obesity/smoking/etc and insist that the problem is that we aren't spending enough money, you know they aren't serious individuals and are just shilling for their flavor of leftism. --- but Marxist theory is extremely consistent, both internally and with reality. -averagejeol <cite>FLUFFYGERM posted [p:894239469] in Tim Faust ... [t:76211806]...</cite> <quote>When people don't mention obesity/smoking/etc and insist that the problem is that we aren't spending enough money, you know they aren't serious individuals and are just shilling for their flavor of leftism.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Balrog0 01/17/18 3:19:42 PM #35:	FLUFFYGERM posted... When people don't mention obesity/smoking/etc and insist that the problem is that we aren't spending enough money, you know they aren't serious individuals and are just shilling for their flavor of leftism. I mean, I dont think leftists ignore these issues, it is just that they believe UHC would be less costly and better for health outcomes even given that --- He would make his mark, if not on this tree, then on that wall; if not with teeth and claws, then with penknife and razor. <cite>Balrog0 posted [p:894239542] in Tim Faust ... [t:76211806]...</cite> <quote><cite>FLUFFYGERM posted...</cite> <quote>When people don't mention obesity/smoking/etc and insist that the problem is that we aren't spending enough money, you know they aren't serious individuals and are just shilling for their flavor of leftism.</quote> I mean, I dont think leftists ignore these issues, it is just that they believe UHC would be less costly and better for health outcomes even given that</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Questionmarktarius 01/17/18 3:20:20 PM #36:	FLUFFYGERM posted... When people don't mention obesity/smoking/etc and insist that the problem is that we aren't spending enough money, you know they aren't serious individuals and are just shilling for their flavor of leftism. Because, it's much easier to insist that it's someone else's problem to fix, and not a failure of individual responsibility. Also, chainsmokers and fatasses die sooner, saving the costs of expensive geriatric care. <cite>Questionmarktarius posted [p:894239574] in Tim Faust ... [t:76211806]...</cite> <quote><cite>FLUFFYGERM posted...</cite> <quote>When people don't mention obesity/smoking/etc and insist that the problem is that we aren't spending enough money, you know they aren't serious individuals and are just shilling for their flavor of leftism.</quote> Because, it's much easier to insist that it's someone else's problem to fix, and not a failure of individual responsibility. Also, chainsmokers and fatasses die sooner, saving the costs of expensive geriatric care.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
FLUFFYGERM 01/17/18 3:22:16 PM #37:	Balrog0 posted... FLUFFYGERM posted... When people don't mention obesity/smoking/etc and insist that the problem is that we aren't spending enough money, you know they aren't serious individuals and are just shilling for their flavor of leftism. I mean, I dont think leftists ignore these issues, it is just that they believe UHC would be less costly and better for health outcomes even given that Obesity and smoking literally represent 30% or more of our yearly healthcare expenditures They are one of the biggest reasons why UHC in America would not be affordable or sustainable The longer we keep thinking "we need to throw more money at the problem" rather than fix the core root issues behind the problem, the worse the situation will be --- but Marxist theory is extremely consistent, both internally and with reality. -averagejeol <cite>FLUFFYGERM posted [p:894239699] in Tim Faust ... [t:76211806]...</cite> <quote><cite>Balrog0 posted...</cite> <quote><cite>FLUFFYGERM posted...</cite> <quote>When people don't mention obesity/smoking/etc and insist that the problem is that we aren't spending enough money, you know they aren't serious individuals and are just shilling for their flavor of leftism.</quote> I mean, I dont think leftists ignore these issues, it is just that they believe UHC would be less costly and better for health outcomes even given that</quote> Obesity and smoking literally represent 30% or more of our yearly healthcare expenditures They are one of the biggest reasons why UHC in America would not be affordable or sustainable The longer we keep thinking "we need to throw more money at the problem" rather than fix the core root issues behind the problem, the worse the situation will be</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
FLUFFYGERM 01/17/18 3:22:42 PM #38:	Questionmarktarius posted... FLUFFYGERM posted... When people don't mention obesity/smoking/etc and insist that the problem is that we aren't spending enough money, you know they aren't serious individuals and are just shilling for their flavor of leftism. Because, it's much easier to insist that it's someone else's problem to fix, and not a failure of individual responsibility. Also, chainsmokers and fatasses die sooner, saving the costs of expensive geriatric care. Smokers and obese people are the reason behind at least 30% of yearly healthcare expenditures --- but Marxist theory is extremely consistent, both internally and with reality. -averagejeol <cite>FLUFFYGERM posted [p:894239720] in Tim Faust ... [t:76211806]...</cite> <quote><cite>Questionmarktarius posted...</cite> <quote><cite>FLUFFYGERM posted...</cite> <quote>When people don't mention obesity/smoking/etc and insist that the problem is that we aren't spending enough money, you know they aren't serious individuals and are just shilling for their flavor of leftism.</quote> Because, it's much easier to insist that it's someone else's problem to fix, and not a failure of individual responsibility. Also, chainsmokers and fatasses die sooner, saving the costs of expensive geriatric care.</quote> Smokers and obese people are the reason behind at least 30% of yearly healthcare expenditures</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Webmaster4531 01/17/18 3:22:52 PM #39:	FLUFFYGERM posted... When people don't mention obesity/smoking/etc and insist that the problem is that we aren't spending enough money, you know they aren't serious individuals and are just shilling for their flavor of leftism. I think the same of conservatives when they say the amount we waste on weapons is fine. --- Ad Hominem. <cite>Webmaster4531 posted [p:894239727] in Tim Faust ... [t:76211806]...</cite> <quote><cite>FLUFFYGERM posted...</cite> <quote>When people don't mention obesity/smoking/etc and insist that the problem is that we aren't spending enough money, you know they aren't serious individuals and are just shilling for their flavor of leftism.</quote> I think the same of conservatives when they say the amount we waste on weapons is fine.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Questionmarktarius 01/17/18 3:31:07 PM #40:	FLUFFYGERM posted... The longer we keep thinking "we need to throw more money at the problem" rather than fix the core root issues behind the problem, the worse the situation will be And again, those cannot be fixed without some degree of obnoxious authoritarianism. Or, just replace SNAP with direct delivery of healthy foodstuffs. A big ol' box of dry beans, rice, vacuum-sealed vegetables, and may some unsalted canned chicken. Then, treat private health insurance like private car insurance, and allow insurers to charge higher premiums to riskier customers, such as fatasses, chainsmokers, drunks, etc. <cite>Questionmarktarius posted [p:894240244] in Tim Faust ... [t:76211806]...</cite> <quote><cite>FLUFFYGERM posted...</cite> <quote>The longer we keep thinking "we need to throw more money at the problem" rather than fix the core root issues behind the problem, the worse the situation will be</quote> And again, those cannot be fixed without some degree of obnoxious authoritarianism. Or, just replace SNAP with direct delivery of healthy foodstuffs. A big ol' box of dry beans, rice, vacuum-sealed vegetables, and may some unsalted canned chicken. Then, treat private health insurance like private car insurance, and allow insurers to charge higher premiums to riskier customers, such as fatasses, chainsmokers, drunks, etc.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
MrPeppers 01/17/18 3:31:15 PM #41:	Webmaster4531 posted... I think the same of conservatives when they say the amount we waste on weapons is fine. Damn straight up attempting to hijack this topic. Savage bruh --- http://i.imgur.com/SGkkbF0.png <cite>MrPeppers posted [p:894240249] in Tim Faust ... [t:76211806]...</cite> <quote><cite>Webmaster4531 posted...</cite> <quote>I think the same of conservatives when they say the amount we waste on weapons is fine.</quote> Damn straight up attempting to hijack this topic. Savage bruh</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Antifar 01/17/18 3:32:21 PM #42:	FLUFFYGERM posted... Obesity and smoking literally represent 30% or more of our yearly healthcare expenditures Is this significantly more than in other countries that provide health coverage to all their citizens? Is our excess of fat people the reason we spend more on healthcare than other developed countries? --- kin to all that throbs <cite>Antifar posted [p:894240324] in Tim Faust ... [t:76211806]...</cite> <quote><cite>FLUFFYGERM posted...</cite> <quote>Obesity and smoking literally represent 30% or more of our yearly healthcare expenditures </quote> Is this significantly more than in other countries that provide health coverage to all their citizens? Is our excess of fat people the reason we spend more on healthcare than other developed countries?</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Questionmarktarius 01/17/18 3:33:32 PM #43:	Antifar posted... FLUFFYGERM posted... Obesity and smoking literally represent 30% or more of our yearly healthcare expenditures Is this significantly more than in other countries that provide health coverage to all their citizens? Probably not https://www.nhs.uk/Livewell/loseweight/Pages/statistics-and-causes-of-the-obesity-epidemic-in-the-UK.aspx http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/06/07/more-spent-on-treating-obesity-related-conditions-than-on-the-po/ <cite>Questionmarktarius posted [p:894240398] in Tim Faust ... [t:76211806]...</cite> <quote><cite>Antifar posted...</cite> <quote><cite>FLUFFYGERM posted...</cite> <quote>Obesity and smoking literally represent 30% or more of our yearly healthcare expenditures </quote> Is this significantly more than in other countries that provide health coverage to all their citizens?</quote> Probably not https://www.nhs.uk/Livewell/loseweight/Pages/statistics-and-causes-of-the-obesity-epidemic-in-the-UK.aspx http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/06/07/more-spent-on-treating-obesity-related-conditions-than-on-the-po/</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
MrPeppers 01/17/18 3:35:49 PM #44:	Antifar posted... Is this significantly more than in other countries that provide health coverage to all their citizens? Is our excess of fat people the reason we spend more on healthcare than other developed countries? That entirely depends on how you thoroughly scrutinize obesity and all of its healthcare sequelae. Regardless, 30% of total healthcare dollars is a statistically significant chunk and should not be scoffed at or glossed over in favor of your proposed solution. --- http://i.imgur.com/SGkkbF0.png <cite>MrPeppers posted [p:894240540] in Tim Faust ... [t:76211806]...</cite> <quote><cite>Antifar posted...</cite> <quote> Is this significantly more than in other countries that provide health coverage to all their citizens? Is our excess of fat people the reason we spend more on healthcare than other developed countries? </quote> That entirely depends on how you thoroughly scrutinize obesity and all of its healthcare sequelae. Regardless, 30% of total healthcare dollars is a statistically significant chunk and should not be scoffed at or glossed over in favor of your proposed solution.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Balrog0 01/17/18 3:38:37 PM #45:	MrPeppers posted... Regardless, 30% of total healthcare dollars is a statistically significant chunk and should not be scoffed at or glossed over in favor of your proposed solution. Sure, I agree. That argument doesn't address the upsides people see of UHC, though, which supporters think apply regardless -- I mean, if we had more infectious diseases than other 1st world countries I don't think people would be saying, "we don't need to spend as much on infectious diseases as we do!" as a reason to say we dont need UHC, right? --- He would make his mark, if not on this tree, then on that wall; if not with teeth and claws, then with penknife and razor. <cite>Balrog0 posted [p:894240703] in Tim Faust ... [t:76211806]...</cite> <quote><cite>MrPeppers posted...</cite> <quote> Regardless, 30% of total healthcare dollars is a statistically significant chunk and should not be scoffed at or glossed over in favor of your proposed solution.</quote> Sure, I agree. That argument doesn't address the upsides people see of UHC, though, which supporters think apply regardless -- I mean, if we had more infectious diseases than other 1st world countries I don't think people would be saying, "we don't need to spend as much on infectious diseases as we do!" as a reason to say we dont need UHC, right?</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Webmaster4531 01/17/18 3:39:49 PM #46:	MrPeppers posted... Webmaster4531 posted... I think the same of conservatives when they say the amount we waste on weapons is fine. Damn straight up attempting to hijack this topic. Savage bruh FluffyGerms said something pointless and stupid. Probably why you cut out his quote. --- Ad Hominem. <cite>Webmaster4531 posted [p:894240766] in Tim Faust ... [t:76211806]...</cite> <quote><cite>MrPeppers posted...</cite> <quote><cite>Webmaster4531 posted...</cite> <quote>I think the same of conservatives when they say the amount we waste on weapons is fine.</quote> Damn straight up attempting to hijack this topic. Savage bruh</quote> FluffyGerms said something pointless and stupid. Probably why you cut out his quote.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
emblem boy 01/17/18 3:43:34 PM #47:	FLUFFYGERM posted... Balrog0 posted... FLUFFYGERM posted... When people don't mention obesity/smoking/etc and insist that the problem is that we aren't spending enough money, you know they aren't serious individuals and are just shilling for their flavor of leftism. I mean, I dont think leftists ignore these issues, it is just that they believe UHC would be less costly and better for health outcomes even given that Obesity and smoking literally represent 30% or more of our yearly healthcare expenditures They are one of the biggest reasons why UHC in America would not be affordable or sustainable The longer we keep thinking "we need to throw more money at the problem" rather than fix the core root issues behind the problem, the worse the situation will be While I agree with what you're saying, I sometimes wonder if even if we fixed those issues, people would suddenly be for UHC. It seems like many people are against UHC on a matter of idealogy --- Posted with GameRaven 3.3 <cite>emblem boy posted [p:894241007] in Tim Faust ... [t:76211806]...</cite> <quote><cite>FLUFFYGERM posted...</cite> <quote><cite>Balrog0 posted...</cite> <quote> <cite>FLUFFYGERM posted...</cite> <quote> When people don't mention obesity/smoking/etc and insist that the problem is that we aren't spending enough money, you know they aren't serious individuals and are just shilling for their flavor of leftism. </quote> I mean, I dont think leftists ignore these issues, it is just that they believe UHC would be less costly and better for health outcomes even given that</quote> Obesity and smoking literally represent 30% or more of our yearly healthcare expenditures They are one of the biggest reasons why UHC in America would not be affordable or sustainable The longer we keep thinking "we need to throw more money at the problem" rather than fix the core root issues behind the problem, the worse the situation will be</quote> While I agree with what you're saying, I sometimes wonder if even if we fixed those issues, people would suddenly be for UHC. It seems like many people are against UHC on a matter of idealogy</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Balrog0 01/17/18 3:46:44 PM #48:	emblem boy posted... While I agree with what you're saying, I sometimes wonder if even if we fixed those issues, people would suddenly be for UHC. It seems like many people are against UHC on a matter of idealogy obviously like, nothing about obesity or smoking changes the terms of the UHC bargain -- we cover everyone, driving risk for the pool down on average, and negotiate lower prices on top of that, which is better than the current system where we spend a shitload of public dollars (more than countries with UHC!) and cover less people the obesity problem is orthogonal, about bending the cost curve of health care, which we can presumably do in either system in various ways --- He would make his mark, if not on this tree, then on that wall; if not with teeth and claws, then with penknife and razor. <cite>Balrog0 posted [p:894241183] in Tim Faust ... [t:76211806]...</cite> <quote><cite>emblem boy posted...</cite> <quote>While I agree with what you're saying, I sometimes wonder if even if we fixed those issues, people would suddenly be for UHC. It seems like many people are against UHC on a matter of idealogy</quote> obviously like, nothing about obesity or smoking changes the terms of the UHC bargain -- we cover everyone, driving risk for the pool down on average, and negotiate lower prices on top of that, which is better than the current system where we spend a shitload of public dollars (more than countries with UHC!) and cover less people the obesity problem is orthogonal, about bending the cost curve of health care, which we can presumably do in either system in various ways</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Antifar 01/17/18 3:49:00 PM #49:	Balrog0 posted... like, nothing about obesity or smoking changes the terms of the UHC bargain -- we cover everyone, driving risk for the pool down on average, and negotiate lower prices on top of that, which is better than the current system where we spend a shitload of public dollars (more than countries with UHC!) and cover less people Basically. We are already paying the costs of obesity and smoking. The federal government insures the poorest and oldest, and the rest of us pay premiums (much of the burden of which falls on employers). --- kin to all that throbs <cite>Antifar posted [p:894241315] in Tim Faust ... [t:76211806]...</cite> <quote><cite>Balrog0 posted...</cite> <quote>like, nothing about obesity or smoking changes the terms of the UHC bargain -- we cover everyone, driving risk for the pool down on average, and negotiate lower prices on top of that, which is better than the current system where we spend a shitload of public dollars (more than countries with UHC!) and cover less people</quote> Basically. We are already paying the costs of obesity and smoking. The federal government insures the poorest and oldest, and the rest of us pay premiums (much of the burden of which falls on employers).</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Questionmarktarius 01/17/18 3:49:21 PM #50:	Balrog0 posted... emblem boy posted... While I agree with what you're saying, I sometimes wonder if even if we fixed those issues, people would suddenly be for UHC. It seems like many people are against UHC on a matter of idealogy obviously like, nothing about obesity or smoking changes the terms of the UHC bargain -- we cover everyone, driving risk for the pool down on average, and negotiate lower prices on top of that, which is better than the current system where we spend a shitload of public dollars (more than countries with UHC!) and cover less people the obesity problem is orthogonal, about bending the cost curve of health care, which we can presumably do in either system in various ways There is some value in getting fatasses to a doctor in the first place, to be badgered about being a fatass. <cite>Questionmarktarius posted [p:894241340] in Tim Faust ... [t:76211806]...</cite> <quote><cite>Balrog0 posted...</cite> <quote><cite>emblem boy posted...</cite> <quote>While I agree with what you're saying, I sometimes wonder if even if we fixed those issues, people would suddenly be for UHC. It seems like many people are against UHC on a matter of idealogy</quote> obviously like, nothing about obesity or smoking changes the terms of the UHC bargain -- we cover everyone, driving risk for the pool down on average, and negotiate lower prices on top of that, which is better than the current system where we spend a shitload of public dollars (more than countries with UHC!) and cover less people the obesity problem is orthogonal, about bending the cost curve of health care, which we can presumably do in either system in various ways</quote> There is some value in getting fatasses to a doctor in the first place, to be badgered about being a fatass.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
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Current Events > Tim Faust of Chapo Trap House is going to talk medicare for all to the local DSA (+) Yeah! (+)

Current Events > Tim Faust of Chapo Trap House is going to talk medicare for all to the local DSA