Current Events > why fighting games are hard

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yoloyoloswagEMP posted...

>No KoF

KoF is not mainstream wtf
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ChromaticAngel posted...

s0nicfan posted...

DoA is basically dead, so I wouldn't even consider that. Play Injustice if you like the story, but it's pretty mediocre as a fighter (in general avoid any fighter on the mortal kombat engine).

Injustice 2 is actually good and nothing at all like Mortal Kombat.

MKvsDC and Injustice 1 were awful games, though.

Injustice 2 improves a lot, but if he's looking to get into fighters, investing time into getting good at something in the MK engine is just a waste of time. The skills won't transfer to other companies' games and in the interim he'll have to hope that a company with like a 10% track record of releasing functional fighters suddenly starts churning out quality titles.
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UnfairRepresent posted...

I'm great at video games but bad at fighting games.

You're bad at video games until you're highly-ranked in a pvp games imo.

FGs are hard because it's not a linear transcend between playtime and skill. To get good at FGs, you have to spend hours in the lab to practice execution, and browse replay videos and forum posts to learn new tactics. The average gamer does not have the patience to do this, and FGs intentionally have no mechanic in bridging newcomers and vets such as enabling teammates and RNG, in order to foster the historical tradition of competitive play.
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KhlavicLanguage posted...

UnfairRepresent posted...

I'm great at video games but bad at fighting games.

You're bad at video games until you're highly-ranked in a pvp games imo.

shmups are harder to get good at than most pvp games tbh

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=86v1U4DVHqo
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it's amazing how mad people get at the idea of making a fighting game even the slightest bit more approachable and easy for newcomers

ChromaticAngel posted...

yoloyoloswagEMP posted...

>No KoF

KoF is not mainstream wtf

EVO titles aren't mainstream?

s0nicfan posted...

Injustice 2 improves a lot, but if he's looking to get into fighters, investing time into getting good at something in the MK engine is just a waste of time. The skills won't transfer to other companies' games and in the interim he'll have to hope that a company with like a 10% track record of releasing functional fighters suddenly starts churning out quality titles.

I suppose this matters if your only goal is to be good at a lot of different fighters.

You could say the same thing about Street Fighter, Tekken, or Soul Calibur as a matter of fact, minus the 10% track record part.

And while I suppose technically Capcom has a better than 10% track record but they've gone way off track with their last two blunders and do not show any signs of shaping up.
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yoloyoloswagEMP posted...

ChromaticAngel posted...

yoloyoloswagEMP posted...

>No KoF

KoF is not mainstream wtf

EVO titles aren't mainstream?

Being at EVO is not really the definition of Mainstream. KoF's player count was tiny and probably included because they knew it would be small and easier to manage alongside the larger tournaments. Street Fighter 4 wasn't at EVO but it's still Mainstream.
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FightingGames posted...

FGs are hard because it's not a linear transcend between playtime and skill. To get good at FGs, you have to spend hours in the lab to practice execution, and browse replay videos and forum posts to learn new tactics. The average gamer does not have the patience to do this, and FGs intentionally have no mechanic in bridging newcomers and vets such as enabling teammates and RNG, in order to foster the historical tradition of competitive play.

The shit you are talking about only fucking matters if you are playing at tournament levels.

most fighting games you can just button mash your way through them. The dude in the OP video even talks about how someone beat SF4 in his first try by just spamming the spinning lariat. As for online, people are literally dumb enough to lose to this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UiZu9vO8Ix0
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They're easy for me but I can understand how they can be hard for new people. They all have similar concepts no matter which game you play, which makes it fairly easy once you get to a certain skill level.

The hardest thing about fighting games right now is forcing myself to play them. I think last gen had more games that I could get into. SFV and MvCi were disappointments for me and after playing them for awhile I don't feel like going back.
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ManSpread posted...

shmups are harder to get good at than most pvp games tbh

No. So long as there is a set pattern to learn, they're inherently easier at the top level than a competitive-designed PvP game.

KhlavicLanguage posted...

ManSpread posted...

shmups are harder to get good at than most pvp games tbh

No. So long as there is a set pattern to learn, they're inherently easier at the top level than a competitive-designed PvP game.

being able to learn the pattern and execute said pattern are radically different concepts
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ChromaticAngel posted...

FightingGames posted...

FGs are hard because it's not a linear transcend between playtime and skill. To get good at FGs, you have to spend hours in the lab to practice execution, and browse replay videos and forum posts to learn new tactics. The average gamer does not have the patience to do this, and FGs intentionally have no mechanic in bridging newcomers and vets such as enabling teammates and RNG, in order to foster the historical tradition of competitive play.

The shit you are talking about only fucking matters if you are playing at tournament levels.

most fighting games you can just button mash your way through them. The dude in the OP video even talks about how someone beat SF4 in his first try by just spamming the spinning lariat. As for online, people are literally dumb enough to lose to this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UiZu9vO8Ix0

i'm referring to online ranked play in general, not high-level tournament play exclusively.

single player mode in FGs have a separate skill requirement that isn't held with any value. You can abuse AI patterns, get away with unsafe moves, and rely on a single strategy. When facing against a human opponent, the playing field completely changes. Obviously, people are gonna choke and lose to random DP mashers but that is expected in the rookie rank level; you cannot get away with spamming repetitive moves as you progress beyond higher levels
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KhlavicLanguage posted...

ManSpread posted...

shmups are harder to get good at than most pvp games tbh

No. So long as there is a set pattern to learn, they're inherently easier at the top level than a competitive-designed PvP game.

Completely and wholly disagree. In a tournament, you're guaranteed to have a winner. Nobody is guaranteed 1CC some superboss in a shmup.

This is like trying to argue that Chess vs Watson is easier than Chess vs a human grandmaster.
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i get the concept of combos but for tekken (at least) i hate how theres nothing you can do to get out of them. what other type of game punishes you so hard for 1 mistake
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ChromaticAngel posted...

KhlavicLanguage posted...

ManSpread posted...

shmups are harder to get good at than most pvp games tbh

No. So long as there is a set pattern to learn, they're inherently easier at the top level than a competitive-designed PvP game.

Completely and wholly disagree. In a tournament, you're guaranteed to have a winner. Nobody is guaranteed 1CC some superboss in a shmup.

This is like trying to argue that Chess vs Watson is easier than Chess vs a human grandmaster.

dodonpachi saidaioujou has been out for almost 6 years and inbachi has yet to be 1cced

cant think of any other game that has been undefeated for so long
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DocileOrangeCup posted...

i get the concept of combos but for tekken (at least) i hate how theres nothing you can do to get out of them. what other type of game punishes you so hard for 1 mistake

the 10 strings are the most damaging moves in the game but don't actually do that much damage. If you get hit by one, it's not an end-of-world event, and there is always the chance that the person might mess up the 10-string and leave themselves open to a massive punish.
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that's true but a lot of people got those down to a tee. isn't King's super amazing grab chain inescapable?
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DocileOrangeCup posted...

that's true but a lot of people got those down to a tee. isn't King's super amazing grab chain inescapable?

Tekken has had built in grab counters since the first game so I highly doubt anything King can do is a game ender.
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oh ok

i just never see anyone kick out of them after the first attempt.

that shit is hard too but i didnt know you could hold buttons before pressing others to make it easier
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The_Freecs posted...

First fighting game Im going to get good at is dragon ball fighterz

This tbh ;>_>

Unless Dragon Ball Xenoverse counts...
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I noticed in SFV, the damage gets reduced as the combo gains momentum.
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if i'm an actual legend in dark souls do you think i can make the jump to the deeper pool of fight games

like maybe i'm only a legend because the pond is small
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St0rmFury posted...

I noticed in SFV, the damage gets reduced as the combo gains momentum.

Yes. It's to discourage burning meter in stupid ways just to get a combo with as high a hit count as possible.

Killer Instinct has the opposite idea. When you start a combo in Killer Instinct, most of the damage you inflict is potential damage which you have to confirm with a combo ender. There is a meter by which you have to end the combo before it fills up to confirm the damage but there are things you can do to extend the meter and the type of damage you inflict fills up the meter at different amounts with the most damaging attacks filling up the meter the least--however because of the Combo Breaker system the most damaging combos are also the slowest and thus easiest to interrupt.
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ManSpread posted...

ChromaticAngel posted...

KhlavicLanguage posted...

ManSpread posted...

shmups are harder to get good at than most pvp games tbh

No. So long as there is a set pattern to learn, they're inherently easier at the top level than a competitive-designed PvP game.

Completely and wholly disagree. In a tournament, you're guaranteed to have a winner. Nobody is guaranteed 1CC some superboss in a shmup.

This is like trying to argue that Chess vs Watson is easier than Chess vs a human grandmaster.

dodonpachi saidaioujou has been out for almost 6 years and inbachi has yet to be 1cced

cant think of any other game that has been undefeated for so long

They're difficult for completely different reasons, I don't get why yall are arguing about this at all.

I hate how fighting games have such a high level of entry.

Not that I don't think that's not without its perks, since I've been playing Tekken for a while now, but it inheritly neuters the player base over time, because once all the newbs left there's only a very limited amount of MLG EVO players who probably moved on too.
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bump

masterbarf posted...

I play as Lei-Fei in Virtua Fighter who has several stances, and I used to practice going into each stance in every possible way and doing each move from each stance including switching stances afterwards over and over. This was just to get fluent enough to be able to naturally do any move at any moment. Strategizing and adapting were whole other beasts to tackle.

I want a new Virtua Fighter so bad. I'm too old to master another fighting game.

You could if arcades came back in a big way and became the talk of the nation again. That would motivate you enough. Of course we all know that won't happen.