Current Events > If marijuana is banned, drinking alcohol and tobacco should be banned as well

(+) Yeah! (+)

just saiyan
---

No, I needs me giggle juice and lung rockets!
---

Or just unban marijuana.
---

PMarth2002 posted...

Or just unban marijuana.

Nope we'd like to eliminate pitfalls that contribute to societal decay not add more, thanks.

Alcohol and Weed, if used responsibly and not to excess, at least make sense to be legal. Its used for recreation. Its like a slice of cake. You dont need it and too much of it can affect your health but every now and then its nice to enjoy the taste with the right people...Cigarettes offer nothing.
---

i agree, but we've already seen how disastrous banning alcohol is so the obvious solution is to legalize weed
---

TheVipaGTS posted...

Alcohol and Weed, if used responsibly and not to excess, at least make sense to be legal. Its used for recreation. Its like a slice of cake. You dont need it and too much of it can affect your health but every now and then its nice to enjoy the taste with the right people...Cigarettes offer nothing.

Cigarettes are nice for stress relief as well as a get out of any awkward situation free card. Those alone offset the health risks for me
---

iClockwork posted...

PMarth2002 posted...

Or just unban marijuana.

Nope we'd like to eliminate pitfalls that contribute to societal decay not add more, thanks.

Banning substances that people use recreationally has not historically been a good method of dealing with drug abuse.
---

Genocet_10-325 posted...

TheVipaGTS posted...

Alcohol and Weed, if used responsibly and not to excess, at least make sense to be legal. Its used for recreation. Its like a slice of cake. You dont need it and too much of it can affect your health but every now and then its nice to enjoy the taste with the right people...Cigarettes offer nothing.

Cigarettes are nice for stress relief as well as a get out of any awkward situation free card. Those alone offset the health risks for me

Then at the very least there needs to be some more control over cigarettes and tobacco. What goes into them should be addressed.
---

Honestly, we should ban cigarettes but allow people that are already addicted to be grandfathered in from the ban. Cigs are such a burden on society that even though I'm not a proponent of substance bans, a temporary (50 year) ban would be worth it.
---

I'd be okay with that
---

Every fuckin stoner always wants to bring alcohol into the discussion. Without fail.
---

Anarchy_Juiblex posted...

Honestly, we should ban cigarettes but allow people that are already addicted to be grandfathered in from the ban. Cigs are such a burden on society that even though I'm not a proponent of substance bans, a temporary (50 year) ban would be worth it.

just keep raising taxes on and you can get the same effect basically
---

KazumaKiryu posted...

Every fuckin stoner always wants to bring alcohol into the discussion. Without fail.

do you think past experience shouldn't inform future policy decisions for some reason?
---

KazumaKiryu posted...

Every fuckin stoner always wants to bring alcohol into the discussion. Without fail.

Because its a valid point when the only argument against legalization tends to be think of the children! Our society will crumble...
---

KazumaKiryu posted...

Every fuckin stoner always wants to bring alcohol into the discussion. Without fail.

i hate alcohol :( guess that makes me a stoner.
---

KazumaKiryu posted...

Every fuckin stoner always wants to bring alcohol into the discussion. Without fail.

I consume both on an almost daily basis and I'm even more pro-alcohol than I am pro-weed.
---

Balrog0 posted...

KazumaKiryu posted...

Every fuckin stoner always wants to bring alcohol into the discussion. Without fail.

do you think past experience shouldn't inform future policy decisions for some reason?

Pot has never been legal on a federal level in the US. When Prohibition was put in place alcohol had already been legal before. The reaction to something being banned when it was previously legal to obtain and banning something that is still illegal won't necessarily have the same outcome. People seem to have no problem obtaining pot at this present moment in history.

Then factor in that the sub par conditions in which a lot of alcohol was being produced at the time of Prohibition was making people sick and even killing them. They are apples and oranges at most levels.

That said, as long as pot has the same stringent restrictions that alcohol does; driving while under in the influence, partaking of drugs at a secular job, and other such screenings, then I have no problem it being legal.
---

thanosibe posted...

Pot has never been legal on a federal level in the US. When Prohibition was put in place alcohol had already been legal before. The reaction to something being banned when it was previously legal to obtain and banning something that is still illegal won't necessarily have the same outcome. People seem to have no problem obtaining pot at this present moment in history.

I don't understand how these ideas are connected, sorry.

thanosibe posted...

Then factor in that the sub par conditions in which a lot of alcohol was being produced at the time of Prohibition was making people sick and even killing them.

Yeah, one way marijuana is different from alcohol is that it can't kill you directly. But also -- do you not remember marijuana synthetics killing people? This happens with pot, too.

thanosibe posted...

They are apples and oranges at most levels.

1) I don't agree
2) Based on the ways they diverge, is there any reason to think a ban on marijuana products is likely to be better for society than an alcohol ban was?

One thing we can say about the prohibition of marijuana is that it probably does cause people to smoke less and/or causes less people to smoke than they would otherwise. The benefit, as far as that goes, is the same -- which seems apples to apples to me. And the regulatory structure being a good thing due to preventing poor-er quality products applies in both cases, too.

The differences are what the public health costs are of doing pot vs alcohol. I do not see any argument in that arena that favors alcohol legalization over marijuana legalization. Do you?
---

iClockwork posted...

PMarth2002 posted...

Or just unban marijuana.

Nope we'd like to eliminate pitfalls that contribute to societal decay not add more, thanks.

I have a bigger issue with arresting people over it than some vague notion of "societal decay". What does that even mean?
---

thanosibe posted...

Pot has never been legal on a federal level in the US

http://www.drugpolicy.org/blog/how-did-marijuana-become-illegal-first-place

Americans brought with them their native language, culture and customs. One of these customs was the use of cannabis as a medicine and relaxant.

Mexican immigrants referred to this plant as marihuana. While Americans were very familiar with cannabis because it was present in almost all tinctures and medicines available at the time, the word marihuana was a foreign term. So, when the media began to play on the fears that the public had about these new citizens by falsely spreading claims about the disruptive Mexicans with their dangerous native behaviors including marihuana use, the rest of the nation did not know that this marihuana was a plant they already had in their medicine cabinets.

The demonization of the cannabis plant was an extension of the demonization of the Mexican immigrants. In an effort to control and keep tabs on these new citizens, El Paso, TX borrowed a play from San Franciscos playbook, which had outlawed opium decades earlier in an effort to control Chinese immigrants. The idea was to have an excuse to search, detain and deport Mexican immigrants.

That excuse became marijuana.

This method of controlling people by controlling their customs was quite successful, so much so that it became a national strategy for keeping certain populations under the watch and control of the government.

During hearings on marijuana law in the 1930s, claims were made about marijuanas ability to cause men of color to become violent and solicit sex from white women. This imagery became the backdrop for the Marijuana Tax Act of 1937 which effectively banned its use and sales.

While the Act was ruled unconstitutional years later, it was replaced with the Controlled Substances Act in the 1970s which established Schedules for ranking substances according to their dangerousness and potential for addiction. Cannabis was placed in the most restrictive category, Schedule I, supposedly as a place holder while then President Nixon commissioned a report to give a final recommendation.

---

Balrog0 posted...

I don't understand how these ideas are connected, sorry.

The prevalence of alcohol at the time of Prohibition was instituted isn't the level that pot is now. So many people turned to bootleg alcohol because they were so use to have it legally. Now all of a sudden it's not. The demand was so much because it was something they were accustomed to. Since pot has never been legal for 100% of Americans, the reaction to it being banned might not be as much of a catastrophe as Prohibition was. For instance, I'll never use pot as long as it is illegal. How many people just don't find the prospect of doing something illegal worth the high? So how many people aren't going to care if pot is banned as oppose to those who are?

Yeah, one way marijuana is different from alcohol is that it can't kill you directly. But also -- do you not remember marijuana synthetics killing people? This happens with pot, too.

I do not actually. When was this? I haven't really been around pot smokers since my high school days in the 90's. And have only know one coworker since then that partakes of it.

1) I don't agree
2) Based on the ways they diverge, is there any reason to think a ban on marijuana products is likely to be better for society than an alcohol ban was?

As I mentioned above, I think it is more the demand that made Prohibition the catastrophe it was, that wouldn't necessarily be the same if pot were banned. I'm also not saying society would be better with pot being banned. I'm more curious as to what the fallout would be.

One thing we can say about the prohibition of marijuana is that it probably does cause people to smoke less and/or causes less people to smoke than they would otherwise. The benefit, as far as that goes, is the same -- which seems apples to apples to me. And the regulatory structure being a good thing due to preventing poor-er quality products applies in both cases, too.

As I used myself as an example above, yes I do think there is a lot of people that are unwilling to partake of pot because of it's legality. But I guess I don't think that correlates with banning of alcohol. Perhaps its my ignorance of how pot is cultivated for use as a recreation drug as oppose to alcohol, which I know is not easy to make. If people are going to dangerous lengths (outside of just breaking the law of using the drug itself) to make/obtain inferior pot due to the ban then I would change my view on it. But as it seems, there's really no factors at this time, that make obtaining pot (or probably other drugs) all that hard for the average citizen of the US. If I am wrong then I am more than willing to admit that.

The differences are what the public health costs are of doing pot vs alcohol. I do not see any argument in that arena that favors alcohol legalization over marijuana legalization. Do you?

As far as health risks, that is for each person to wager. Anything we do can cause public health costs. McDonalds and Wendy's can cause public health costs. I am not necessarily invested in that side of it to care honestly. I know the costs of smoking; 3 out of 4 grandparents died from tobacco use. I know my alcohol consumption will probably catch up with me. But as far as pot, no I do not know the health risks. Not that I am not open to being educated about it for the sake of this conversation.
---

bump
---

Legalize cannabis and MDMA.
---

Sorry TC. Alcohol is harmless, unlike marijuana. If anything, there should be fewer restrictions for alcohol.
---

PMarth2002 posted...

What does that even mean?

The decay of society through irresponsible actions by individuals of the public. Drug use would be a good example of this.