Current Events > What's the point of minimum wage rises?

(+) Yeah! (+)

People that work minimum wage jobs are either college students or bums. By raising the minimum wage, you are forcing the company to pay employees more, which adds to the cost for the company. This sucks for the company, but what they usually do is get rid of a few people and make the others work more hours. I think automation needs to increase, so I think that for the next 10 years, the government should raise the minimum wage by two dollars every year. No way McDonald's would want to pay $30 an hour by the time the years are up. They would automate. Survival of the fittest.

Trump just gave these huge corporations a big welfare check by cutting taxes they can pass it along to the employees trickle down economics
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Imagine talking about this subject and not typing 25 pages after half a bottle of scotch
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It is 15 bucks in NYC....

however realize this means Bridges & Tolls will be going up also

food will be going up

so its all the same.
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CADE FOSTER posted...

Trump just gave these huge corporations a big welfare check by cutting taxes they can pass it along to the employees trickle down economics

Lmfao
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This is the worst topic I've ever seen

Trickle down economics work my daddy ronny reagan told me
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Also doesnt like less than 5% of the adult working force making minimum wage
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KingCrabCake posted...

Also doesnt like less than 5% of the adult working force making minimum wage

From what I recall, yes. But it didnt include anyone that made a penny more an hour in the percentage
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Minimum wage rises ensure that your workers are healthy enough to provide some sport when you hunt them on weekends. I should move my operations to Alabama, since Florida is a 'catch-and-release' state.
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Unsugarized_Foo posted...

KingCrabCake posted...

Also doesnt like less than 5% of the adult working force making minimum wage

From what I recall, yes. But it didnt include anyone that made a penny more an hour in the percentage

Coool

Leave M.W. as is its for entry level jobs and kids
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Minimum wage increases make government appear to be helping the poor, then eventually provides a vector to blame evil corporations when hours are cut, jobs are eliminated, and robots move in.

http://d7.freedomworks.org.s3.amazonaws.com/Climbing_the_Ladder.jpg
http://redpanels.com/75/

And with slightly less rhetoric:
http://www.passportchop.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/12/Minimum-Wage.jpg

008Zulu posted...

Minimum wage rises ensure that your workers are healthy enough to provide some sport when you hunt them on weekends. I should move my operations to Alabama, since Florida is a 'catch-and-release' state.

...whut?

Minimum wage goes up and so do prices so all we're really doing is playing with bigger numbers.

TheGrindery posted...

Minimum wage goes up and so do prices so all we're really doing is playing with bigger numbers.

Minimum wage stays flat, but prices still go up. Can't explain that.
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Questionmarktarius posted...

008Zulu posted...

Minimum wage rises ensure that your workers are healthy enough to provide some sport when you hunt them on weekends. I should move my operations to Alabama, since Florida is a 'catch-and-release' state.

...whut?

I know right? What's the point in hunting if you can't hang the trophy on the wall?
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Low quality bait topic.
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Joeydollaz posted...

It is 15 bucks in NYC....

No it isn't
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People keep saying prices go up. That's funny. I can't remember a single time my house payment, car payment, or student loan payment went up due to minimum wage going up.

As for food and gas, those prices go up anyway.
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red_is_ash posted...

People that work minimum wage jobs are either college students or bums.

I'm sick of seeing people posting this false and basically clueless statement. All sorts of people have these jobs.

Are retirees bums? No, they want to have a reason to get out of the house for a while, making a little extra cash is a bonus for them. What about people who don't want to sit at desk all day and prefer to interact with people or be on thier feet? They're not bums. Not everyone wants a desk job.

Everyone who keeps bashing raising minimum wage need to use thier brain a little more. Just because you have a cushy desk job doesn't mean it's the best or right fit for everyone.

I situations where the company's profits far outweigh the cost of paying more employees, it actually makes sense. It can also be a temporary solution for some issues. Most importantly, creating a minimum wage helps to create a 'fair' competitive work environment, and dissuades exploitative practices, but that also means it has to be adjusted to work with current inflation/deflation.

However, it's best utilized when used in tandem with other things like stricter business laws, properly adjusted taxes, etc.

KingCrabCake posted...

Unsugarized_Foo posted...

KingCrabCake posted...

Also doesnt like less than 5% of the adult working force making minimum wage

From what I recall, yes. But it didnt include anyone that made a penny more an hour in the percentage

Coool

Leave M.W. as is its for entry level jobs and kids

No, it's not.

CADE FOSTER posted...

Trump just gave these huge corporations a big welfare check by cutting taxes they can pass it along to the employees trickle down economics

Which might work if the companies issuing the wages were actually huge corporations, but they're not. Even your local McDonald's is most likely a franchisee -- like 95% of locations in the US -- meaning that whatever corporate makes doesn't benefit them.
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In theory, minimum wage jobs should be for college students.

In practice, there's not enough well-playing jobs available for the amount of adults living in the country.
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RchHomieQuanChi posted...

In theory, minimum wage jobs should be for college students.

In practice, there's not enough well-playing jobs available for the amount of adults living in the country.

The entitled complainers of raising minimum wage don't use thier brains long enough to realize this simple fact.

All entry level jobs should be unpaid internships but also college shouldn't be free! Damn liberal!!
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There needs to be an increase in labor wages across the board. Wages have been nearly stagnant since the 70s, and some communities have actually lost money over time.

ThanksUglyGod posted...

There needs to be an increase in labor wages across the board. Wages have been nearly stagnant since the 70s, and some communities have actually lost money over time.

How would you propose wages and prices get balanced out? That's the main problem, unfortunately.

Aiden5576 posted...

KingCrabCake posted...

Unsugarized_Foo posted...

KingCrabCake posted...

Also doesnt like less than 5% of the adult working force making minimum wage

From what I recall, yes. But it didnt include anyone that made a penny more an hour in the percentage

Coool

Leave M.W. as is its for entry level jobs and kids

No, it's not.

@Aiden5576 without a doubt it is...

Who's it for then
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Trickle down economics? I can feel the bullshit trickling down
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Questionmarktarius posted...

And with slightly less rhetoric:
http://www.passportchop.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/12/Minimum-Wage.jpg

i'd love to see that remapped to show the wage in inflation-adjusted dollars so the real effects are visible

possibly also with recessions marked as well, like the massive one that happened from 2008-late 2009
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KingCrabCake posted...

Aiden5576 posted...

KingCrabCake posted...

Unsugarized_Foo posted...

KingCrabCake posted...

Also doesnt like less than 5% of the adult working force making minimum wage

From what I recall, yes. But it didnt include anyone that made a penny more an hour in the percentage

Coool

Leave M.W. as is its for entry level jobs and kids

No, it's not.

@Aiden5576 without a doubt it is...

Who's it for then

Anyone. Retirees, high school and college students/graduates, someone who needs/wants a second job for extra money, mothers, fathers, etc. They're there for ANYONE who needs a damn job, period. Believe it or not, there are even people (like me) who prefer to be up and moving while working instead of sitting at a desk all day.

Joeydollaz posted...

It is 15 bucks in NYC....

however realize this means Bridges & Tolls will be going up also

food will be going up

so its all the same.

yeah since minimum wage went up by 5 bucks, that means a 50 cent candy will cost 5.50$ now.

because labor cost makes up 100% of everything and not like 10-20% at most.

CADE FOSTER posted...

Trump just gave these huge corporations a big welfare check by cutting taxes they can pass it along to the employees trickle down economics

Tax cuts aren't welfare.
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FluttershyPony posted...

Joeydollaz posted...

It is 15 bucks in NYC....

however realize this means Bridges & Tolls will be going up also

food will be going up

so its all the same.

yeah since minimum wage went up by 5 bucks, that means a 50 cent candy will cost 5.50$ now.

because labor cost makes up 100% of everything and not like 10-20% at most.

You think a 10 to 20% increase in all your spending won't add up?
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darkjedilink posted...

You think a 10 to 20% increase in all your spending won't add up?

Min wage hikes are a net gain for min wage workers. Are you dense?
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Darkman124 posted...

Questionmarktarius posted...

And with slightly less rhetoric:
http://www.passportchop.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/12/Minimum-Wage.jpg

i'd love to see that remapped to show the wage in inflation-adjusted dollars so the real effects are visible

possibly also with recessions marked as well, like the massive one that happened from 2008-late 2009

Inflation-adjustments wouldn't level out the pops in unemployment.
What's interesting is that the $5.85 increase has a delay before the unemployment rate popped up, likely caused by the 2008 recession, while the $6.55 increase (in the middle of the recession) caused a hell of a pop.

This strongly suggests that raising the wage floor in a bad economy accomplishes nothing but causing more people to suddenly make $0 an hour.

Anarchy_Juiblex posted...

Min wage hikes are a net gain for min wage workers. Are you dense?

How is it a net gain for an unskilled minimum wage worker to suddenly make no wage?

Protecting worker's rights. Doesn't mean it should be $15/hr but it's overdue for an increase.
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All minimum wage does is reward employees for performing at a bare minimum level while not rewarding those employees who go above and beyond to perform at their jobs.

$14/hour employee who started at $9/hour two years ago gets a raise to $15/hour with minimum wage increase.

Employee who has no previous job experience or motivation to move up in the company gets $15/hour.

That's fair, right?

Minimum wage law increases MUST also include a caveat that increases the wage above the proposed minimum of those already employed by their current company. Let's say current minimum wage is $10 and it is going to increase to $15. That's a 50% increase in pay. If someone is currently making $14, they should be bumped up to $21 once the $15 minimum wage takes effect. Or something like that.

Anarchy_Juiblex posted...

darkjedilink posted...

You think a 10 to 20% increase in all your spending won't add up?

Min wage hikes are a net gain for min wage workers. Are you dense?

No, it's not. Gas prices go up. Food goes up. Utilities go up. School goes up. Material possessions increase in price. Automotive repair costs go up. Meanwhile, hours are cut, benefits are cut, and in extreme cases people get laid off.

It isn't a 'net gain' for anyone.
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darkjedilink posted...

Anarchy_Juiblex posted...

darkjedilink posted...

You think a 10 to 20% increase in all your spending won't add up?

Min wage hikes are a net gain for min wage workers. Are you dense?

No, it's not. Gas prices go up. Food goes up. Utilities go up. School goes up. Material possessions increase in price. Automotive repair costs go up. Meanwhile, hours are cut, benefits are cut, and in extreme cases people get laid off.

It isn't a 'net gain' for anyone.

you're right, life sure was a hell of a lot better back when we made 3 nickels and a ball of lint for an entire days work at the coal mines.

FluttershyPony posted...

darkjedilink posted...

Anarchy_Juiblex posted...

darkjedilink posted...

You think a 10 to 20% increase in all your spending won't add up?

Min wage hikes are a net gain for min wage workers. Are you dense?

No, it's not. Gas prices go up. Food goes up. Utilities go up. School goes up. Material possessions increase in price. Automotive repair costs go up. Meanwhile, hours are cut, benefits are cut, and in extreme cases people get laid off.

It isn't a 'net gain' for anyone.

you're right, life sure was a hell of a lot better back when we made 3 nickels and a ball of lint for an entire days work at the coal mines.

Life improved due to technology, not minimum wage.

Nice try, though.
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Questionmarktarius posted...

Inflation-adjustments wouldn't level out the pops in unemployment.
What's interesting is that the $5.85 increase has a delay before the unemployment rate popped up, likely caused by the 2008 recession, while the $6.55 increase (in the middle of the recession) caused a hell of a pop.

This strongly suggests that raising the wage floor in a bad economy accomplishes nothing but causing more people to suddenly make $0 an hour.

it would level out the pops in salary and show that the actual trend in minimum wage, in real dollars, was always down

it would also discourage smart people like you you from using words like 'cause' in a discussion of correlations and force that smart person to consider alternate interpretations, such as the idea that recessions are not one-dimensional events that turn on and off, but have varying severity and may get worse, potentially at the same time as a minimum wage increase.
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Darkman124 posted...

words like 'cause' in a discussion of correlations

Layoffs during a recession are more than just correlation.

red_is_ash posted...

People that work minimum wage jobs are either college students or bums.

Try working a minimum wage job sometime

Questionmarktarius posted...

Darkman124 posted...

words like 'cause' in a discussion of correlations

Layoffs during a recession are more than just correlation.

recessions?

generally, yes.

layoffs right after a minimum wage increase may well not be caused by the minimum wage increase. they also might, but you presented the original plot as to suggest they were solely the cause, when in reality they were almost certainly driven entirely by the massive recession that occurred during the two spikes.
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Darkman124 posted...

layoffs right after a minimum wage increase may well not be caused by the minimum wage increase. they also might, but you presented the original plot as to suggest they were solely the cause, when in reality they were almost certainly driven entirely by the massive recession that occurred during the two spikes.

as before...

What's interesting is that the $5.85 increase has a delay before the unemployment rate popped up, likely caused by the 2008 recession, while the $6.55 increase (in the middle of the recession) caused a hell of a pop.

It takes both, apparently.
Minimum wage increases during a boom don't seem to affect much. Minimum wage increases during a bust is just disastrous.

Also note that the chart is solely about teenage unemployment. It's very likely they're the first to go when things get bad, from general inexperience and immaturity and whatnot.

> Also note that the chart is solely about teenage unemployment. It's very likely they're the first to go when things get bad, from general inexperience and immaturity and whatnot.

Yeah, you can actually tell who's kind of sheltered or oblivious on CE. Most minimum wage workers are outright adults. If you're curious why, it's because desperate adults took their jobs. Adults work way harder and more reliably than teenagers.

Sure, a few get hired because they work odd schedules but when I worked fast food, most were adults.
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