Current Events > How to Be the Perfect Rape Victim

(+) Yeah! (+)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LswPny2_z4s

Im genuinely curious if people who tend to claim women are in it for the attention have a counter tbh
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Not cool, funny, or amusing at all to play off rape as if it is a game or a subject to make light of.
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Can someone tl;dw the video for me? Is she complaining that we don't automatically believe the accusations?
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Not in my book.
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She's making fun of ways people say a rape victim is lieing. For example if it was real they would have came out sooner, they were scantily clad, and etc...
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How to be the perfect rape victim:

-be honest
-cooperate with police
-let them collect evidence
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is this comedy?
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armandro posted...

is this comedy?

It's satire. Mocking the incredibly draconian and one sided legal system that the us holds to.
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Offworlder1 posted...

Not cool, funny, or amusing at all to play off rape as if it is a game or a subject to make light of.

Didnt watch the video before getting offended, I take it.
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Offworlder1 posted...

Not cool, funny, or amusing at all to play off rape as if it is a game or a subject to make light of.

George Carlin had an entire bit on this
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Offworlder1 posted...

Not cool, funny, or amusing at all to play off rape as if it is a game or a subject to make light of.

I feel like you missed the mark by a country mile on what this was about
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meestermj posted...

armandro posted...

is this comedy?

It's satire. Mocking the incredibly draconian and one sided legal system that the us holds to.

It's also mocking the culture of rape apologists who will poke a stick and shame an alleged victim for speaking out, usually while saying things like "innocent until proven guilty" while curiously failing to throw that same level of scrutiny and doubt at the alleged rapist.
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meestermj posted...

armandro posted...

is this comedy?

It's satire. Mocking the incredibly draconian and one sided legal system that the us holds to.

Lol, yeah, right.

How many innocent men have gone to prison on nothing more than a woman's lie?
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UncleBourbon33 posted...

Can someone tl;dw the video for me? Is she complaining that we don't automatically believe the accusations?

She's giving a satirical take on all the reasons why women don't come out, or come out late, or come out and have an inconsistent story, or even just don't seem to be victimy enough after they come out according to some people.
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darkjedilink posted...

How many innocent men have gone to prison on nothing more than a woman's lie?

Probably much much less than women who never came forward after being raped.
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darkjedilink posted...

meestermj posted...

armandro posted...

is this comedy?

It's satire. Mocking the incredibly draconian and one sided legal system that the us holds to.

Lol, yeah, right.

How many innocent men have gone to prison on nothing more than a woman's lie?

A number considerably smaller than the amount of women who have been silent about sexual assault and the number of women who have tried to pursue action for a sexual assault and not got anywhere with it.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/100000-assaults-1000-rapists-sentenced-shockingly-low-conviction-rates-revealed-8446058.html

I feel you're deliberately ignoring the simple fact that most rape cases don't end up in a conviction of any kind, because acknowledging that fact would mean having to abandon the idea that you can just tell someone you were raped and then the court takes care of the rest.
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darkjedilink posted...

meestermj posted...

armandro posted...

is this comedy?

It's satire. Mocking the incredibly draconian and one sided legal system that the us holds to.

Lol, yeah, right.

How many innocent men have gone to prison on nothing more than a woman's lie?

Like... a few?
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UncleBourbon33 posted...

Can someone tl;dw the video for me? Is she complaining that we don't automatically believe the accusations?

Not really, she's more poking fun at the (often contradictory) reasons why so many people don't listen to the accusations and the police + courts inability to actually address them
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Also people should watch the interview with Harvey Weinstein's former assistant. She did speak out, immediately actually. And here's what happened:

- stonewalled by her employers
- stonewalled by the industry
- career ruined, reputation destroyed
- no pathway left except to take a relatively small settlement and get forced into a NDA where she wasn't even allowed to tell therapists about what happened

Girl had every reason to keep quiet and no reason at all to speak out and she did so anyway, and it ended up ruining her life.
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Mr_Biscuit posted...

darkjedilink posted...

meestermj posted...

armandro posted...

is this comedy?

It's satire. Mocking the incredibly draconian and one sided legal system that the us holds to.

Lol, yeah, right.

How many innocent men have gone to prison on nothing more than a woman's lie?

Like... a few?

More than a few. Some estimates say a fifth of rape claims are false.
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darkjedilink posted...

Mr_Biscuit posted...

darkjedilink posted...

meestermj posted...

armandro posted...

is this comedy?

It's satire. Mocking the incredibly draconian and one sided legal system that the us holds to.

Lol, yeah, right.

How many innocent men have gone to prison on nothing more than a woman's lie?

Like... a few?

More than a few. Some estimates say a fifth of rape claims are false.

This is some fine bullshit right here. The highest estimates floating around are around 10% but most put it closer to 2%.

Now don't get me wrong, the fact that anyone would report a false rape accusation is alarming in itself. 2% is still a lot of people. But to use this as a reason to ignore the much bigger problem of rape convictions being exceedingly small compared to accusations is ridiculous.

http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/jemma-beale-woman-lie-about-rape-ten-years-in-prison-not-all-woman-liars-not-all-men-rapists-a7912766.html
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Won't bother with the video, all I know is that for me personally it's awkward as hell dealing with this kind of situation.

On one hand, I've been the victim of sexual assault, as a child no less, and the attacker ultimately got away with it. I've also had to deal with an endless parade of apathy and mockery about it from men and women alike well into my adult years.
On the other hand, I've been falsely accused of sexual assault myself and almost had my life destroyed by it. The liar even tried to use my previous history as a victim to lend weight to their own claims that I was "perpetuating the cycle" that some young victims tragically do indeed fall into.

To that end I don't like automatically taking the accuser or accused's side in these things, because I know full-stop what it's like to be on the bad end of both scenarios. I let the court of law deal with it, and disregard anything the court of public opinion has to say.
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Funny that they talked about the Tyson case. The people who found him guilty said they wouldn't gave convicted him if they were allowed to see all of the evidence.
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cjsdowg posted...

Funny that they talked about the Tyson case. The people who found him guilty said they wouldn't gave convicted him if they were allowed to see all of the evidence.

Thats exactly why things like the rape shield statue exist. The courts dont want someones entire life to be put on trial. Bringing up past sexual promiscuity to give the illusion of propensity for sexual activity is exactly what the legal system is designed to prevent.
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the only way to be a perfect rape victim is to be a literal nun
and people will still accuse you of being a lying whore trying to ruin an innocent mans life
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Nomadic View posted...

Thats exactly why things like the rape shield statue exist. The courts dont want someones entire life to be put on trial. Bringing up past sexual promiscuity to give the illusion of propensity for sexual activity is exactly what the legal system is designed to prevent.

It was not just her getting around that changed people mind about the. It was people who talked about events of that night. And moreover for Tyson, this victims dad claimed that someone else raped her, after she willingly had sex with someone.
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The whole "perfect victim" thing is bullshit meant to shame anyone who doesn't immediately side with an accuser and presume the accused to be guilty, and anyone who dares suggest that an accuser should be properly vetted.
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Funbazooka posted...

The whole "perfect victim" thing is bullshit meant to shame anyone who doesn't immediately side with an accuser and presume the accused to be guilty, and anyone who dares suggest that an accuser should be properly vetted.

More that people are willing to draw every nefarious conclusion under the sun over the accuser without even once considering that the accused might have done anything wrong. Further, that the only possible reasons someone would pull someone up for sexual assault is the promise of a fat check at the end of the leprechaun rainbow.
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pinky0926 posted...

darkjedilink posted...

Mr_Biscuit posted...

darkjedilink posted...

meestermj posted...

armandro posted...

is this comedy?

It's satire. Mocking the incredibly draconian and one sided legal system that the us holds to.

Lol, yeah, right.

How many innocent men have gone to prison on nothing more than a woman's lie?

Like... a few?

More than a few. Some estimates say a fifth of rape claims are false.

This is some fine bullshit right here. The highest estimates floating around are around 10% but most put it closer to 2%.

Now don't get me wrong, the fact that anyone would report a false rape accusation is alarming in itself. 2% is still a lot of people. But to use this as a reason to ignore the much bigger problem of rape convictions being exceedingly small compared to accusations is ridiculous.

http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/jemma-beale-woman-lie-about-rape-ten-years-in-prison-not-all-woman-liars-not-all-men-rapists-a7912766.html

Do you know why that is?

Because real victims don't cooperate with law enforcement. They refuse to testify. They don't want to have to tell people what they went through.

And that's all fair.

But it's also not a reason to change the rules.
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Um
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Funbazooka posted...

The whole "perfect victim" thing is bullshit meant to shame anyone who doesn't immediately side with an accuser and presume the accused to be guilty, and anyone who dares suggest that an accuser should be properly vetted.

There's some truth to this. Some people really think rape is so horrific that even innocence isn't a valid defence.
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darkjedilink posted...

Do you know why that is?

Because real victims don't cooperate with law enforcement. They refuse to testify. They don't want to have to tell people what they went through.

And that's all fair.

But it's also not a reason to change the rules.

I don't think anyone here is talking about changing the rules so much as "be more sympathetic to women who's testimony doesn't align with your "here's what I would have done" hypothetical scenario
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pinky0926 posted...

darkjedilink posted...

Do you know why that is?

Because real victims don't cooperate with law enforcement. They refuse to testify. They don't want to have to tell people what they went through.

And that's all fair.

But it's also not a reason to change the rules.

I don't think anyone here is talking about changing the rules so much as "be more sympathetic to women who's testimony doesn't align with your "here's what I would have done" hypothetical scenario

No, it literally is 'change the rules' if you're arguing that accusations should invariably lead to criminal conviction.

If you want people to believe you, show the evidence. Your word isn't proof.
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darkjedilink posted...

No, it literally is 'change the rules' if you're arguing that accusations should invariably lead to criminal conviction.

Which is not an argument anyone has made
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pinky0926 posted...

darkjedilink posted...

No, it literally is 'change the rules' if you're arguing that accusations should invariably lead to criminal conviction.

Which is not an argument anyone has made

Oh?

pinky0926 posted...

But to use this as a reason to ignore the much bigger problem of rape convictions being exceedingly small compared to accusations is ridiculous.

Literally, you did.
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darkjedilink posted...

Oh?

pinky0926 posted...

But to use this as a reason to ignore the much bigger problem of rape convictions being exceedingly small compared to accusations is ridiculous.

Literally, you did.

"An absurdly small amount of rape accusations leading to convictions is a problem" is a very different kind of argument from "literally every rape accusation should lead to a conviction regardless of evidence, case closed".
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You say it's a problem that not enough rape charges are met with conviction. Do you wish to remedy that problem?

How does one solve that problem?

By issuing more guilty verdicts, regardless of the evidence.
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pinky0926 posted...

darkjedilink posted...

Oh?

pinky0926 posted...

But to use this as a reason to ignore the much bigger problem of rape convictions being exceedingly small compared to accusations is ridiculous.

Literally, you did.

"An absurdly small amount of rape accusations leading to convictions is a problem" is a very different kind of argument from "literally every rape accusation should lead to a conviction regardless of evidence, case closed".

Except it's only a problem if you're equating accusations with guilt.
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Funbazooka posted...

You say it's a problem that not enough rape charges are met with conviction. Do you wish to remedy that problem?

How does one solve that problem?

By issuing more guilty verdicts, regardless of the evidence.

It's not even a case of "not enough rape charges are met with conviction" but more like "almost no rape charges are met with conviction".

We can start by working together as a society to remove the stigma towards rape victims and all the associated rape apology that goes along with it, as outlined in the original video. This would help rape survivors feel more emboldened to pursue justice, which would obviously increase the amount of rapists being put away.

It would also help rape survivors pursue legal action more swiftly, which would help capture vital evidence at the time rather than leaving it to a he-said-she-said scenario, which would also increase the amount of convictions.

And I don't know what the specific laws are in different states but certainly in the Harvey Weinstein case he as able to protect himself through non disclosure agreements preventing his alleged victims from testifying about his alleged criminal activity. So yeah I absolutely think that law needs to be looked at.

I think there are a lot of sensible and good things we could do here that don't amount to "eh, just convict more of them I don't care".

darkjedilink posted...

Except it's only a problem if you're equating accusations with guilt.

The implication here is that convictions are not happening only because evidence was insufficient, which is demonstrably false.
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pinky0926 posted...

Funbazooka posted...

You say it's a problem that not enough rape charges are met with conviction. Do you wish to remedy that problem?

How does one solve that problem?

By issuing more guilty verdicts, regardless of the evidence.

It's not even a case of "not enough rape charges are met with conviction" but more like "almost no rape charges are met with conviction".

We can start by working together as a society to remove the stigma towards rape victims and all the associated rape apology that goes along with it, as outlined in the original video. This would help rape survivors feel more emboldened to pursue justice, which would obviously increase the amount of rapists being put away.

It would also help rape survivors pursue legal action more swiftly, which would help capture vital evidence at the time rather than leaving it to a he-said-she-said scenario, which would also increase the amount of convictions.

And I don't know what the specific laws are in different states but certainly in the Harvey Weinstein case he as able to protect himself through non disclosure agreements preventing his alleged victims from testifying about his alleged criminal activity. So yeah I absolutely think that law needs to be looked at.

I think there are a lot of sensible and good things we could do here that don't amount to "eh, just convict more of them I don't care".

darkjedilink posted...

Except it's only a problem if you're equating accusations with guilt.

The implication here is that convictions are not happening only because evidence was insufficient, which is demonstrably false.

There is literally not a single truth told in this post.
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http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/football/wrongfully-imprisoned-banks-career-nfl-article-1.2090727

This is EXACTLY why "listen and believe" is utter bullshit.
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darkjedilink posted...

There is literally not a single truth told in this post.

That's a lazy reply not worthy of this one but I'll give it to you anyway, here is all the truth in the post:

It's not even a case of "not enough rape charges are met with conviction" but more like "almost no rape charges are met with conviction".

https://www.rainn.org/statistics/criminal-justice-system
https://www.rainn.org/sites/default/files/Out_Of_1000_Rapes%20122016.png

We can start by working together as a society to remove the stigma towards rape victims and all the associated rape apology that goes along with it, as outlined in the original video. This would help rape survivors feel more emboldened to pursue justice, which would obviously increase the amount of rapists being put away.

You agreed yourself that part of the problem is not enough people coming forward to police so we can skip this one

And I don't know what the specific laws are in different states but certainly in the Harvey Weinstein case he as able to protect himself through non disclosure agreements preventing his alleged victims from testifying about his alleged criminal activity. So yeah I absolutely think that law needs to be looked at.

You probably won't watch this but this is detailed here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b4hhZTcTYeU

And finally:

The implication here is that convictions are not happening only because evidence was insufficient, which is demonstrably false.

Lack of evidence is obviously one strong reason why but it is not the only reason why. Another is inefficiency in the justice system. Details:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/women/life/dont-blame-rape-victims-for-pulling-out-of-court-cases---you-mig/

Again this was covered in the video in the OP. 70,000 untested rape kits, court cases being pushed back and back, etc.
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I was hoping for a fake 80s workplace training video style thing.
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pinky0926 posted...

darkjedilink posted...

There is literally not a single truth told in this post.

That's a lazy reply not worthy of this one but I'll give it to you anyway, here is all the truth in the post:

It's not even a case of "not enough rape charges are met with conviction" but more like "almost no rape charges are met with conviction".

https://www.rainn.org/statistics/criminal-justice-system
https://www.rainn.org/sites/default/files/Out_Of_1000_Rapes%20122016.png

We can start by working together as a society to remove the stigma towards rape victims and all the associated rape apology that goes along with it, as outlined in the original video. This would help rape survivors feel more emboldened to pursue justice, which would obviously increase the amount of rapists being put away.

You agreed yourself that part of the problem is not enough people coming forward to police so we can skip this one

And I don't know what the specific laws are in different states but certainly in the Harvey Weinstein case he as able to protect himself through non disclosure agreements preventing his alleged victims from testifying about his alleged criminal activity. So yeah I absolutely think that law needs to be looked at.

You probably won't watch this but this is detailed here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b4hhZTcTYeU

And finally:

The implication here is that convictions are not happening only because evidence was insufficient, which is demonstrably false.

Lack of evidence is obviously one strong reason why but it is not the only reason why. Another is inefficiency in the justice system. Details:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/women/life/dont-blame-rape-victims-for-pulling-out-of-court-cases---you-mig/

Again this was covered in the video in the OP. 70,000 untested rape kits, court cases being pushed back and back, etc.

Your post - again - suggests that all accusations are automatically truth, and that evidence doesn't need to be collected or used against the accused. That whole website suggests that ONLY the accusation should be enough to bring about a conviction, and that the victim shouldn't have to testify, or even talk to the police.

That's literally arguing that the rules should be changed, and that convictions need to go up, evidence be damned.
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darkjedilink posted...

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/football/wrongfully-imprisoned-banks-career-nfl-article-1.2090727

This is EXACTLY why "listen and believe" is utter bullshit.

No, the bullshit here is he was failed by the justice system.

Your argument is essentially structured like this: "X happens a lot. However Y happens rarely, therefore don't fix X, we need to focus on Y". It's not only a bad sense of priority but it's a false dilemma to start with. Can't we fix both?
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darkjedilink posted...

Your post - again - suggests that all accusations are automatically truth, and that evidence doesn't need to be collected or used against the accused. That whole website suggests that ONLY the accusation should be enough to bring about a conviction, and that the victim shouldn't have to testify, or even talk to the police.

That's literally arguing that the rules should be changed, and that convictions need to go up, evidence be damned.

Where did I suggest that at all? Show me where I suggested that. And show me where it says anything like what you said there on the website.
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pinky0926 posted...

darkjedilink posted...

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/football/wrongfully-imprisoned-banks-career-nfl-article-1.2090727

This is EXACTLY why "listen and believe" is utter bullshit.

No, the bullshit here is he was failed by the justice system.

Your argument is essentially structured like this: "X happens a lot. However Y happens rarely, therefore don't fix X, we need to focus on Y". It's not only a bad sense of priority but it's a false dilemma to start with. Can't we fix both?

Maybe the problem is how we treat criminals and not the fact that someone was wrongfully convicted?

Like, if there was only some way to deal with criminals in ways that don't destroy their fucking life, particularly when the evidence against them is nebulous.
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ChromaticAngel posted...

Maybe the problem is how we treat criminals and not the fact that someone was wrongfully convicted?

Like, if there was only some way to deal with criminals in ways that don't destroy their fucking life, particularly when the evidence against them is nebulous.

I actually agree entirely. I think "we need to treat suspects fairly" and "we need to treat alleged victims fairly" are not mutually exclusive statements, and it's wrong to paint it as if they are.
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