Current Events > government regulations are keeping millennials from getting ahead

(+) Yeah! (+)

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Why do I need a nice vacation and luxury dining.
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get rid of all regulations

let me drive with no license and if I steal your car the cops can't ask for proof of ownership nor is their a plate
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In all seriousness though, its kind of upsetting how expensive college is. If they make it so you have to go to college to be successful they could at least make it affordable. And Im not saying it should be free, but affordable. Its inexcusable.

Thats the main reason I never went to college.. its too fucking expensive. So now Im stuck at a shitty job making an embarrassingly low amount of money, but you know what I keep telling myself? At least Im not in debt from going to college.

Some of my friends did and theyre either stuck doing the same shit I am (while paying off loans) or they have real jobs but are still drowning in debt.

Who the hell decided that that was ok?
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They left off the ball and chain for 'crippling student loan debt'
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thronedfire2 posted...

They left off the ball and chain for 'crippling student loan debt'

the author has no interest in resolving that issue

people with an education tend not to support right wing positions
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rexcrk posted...

In all seriousness though, its kind of upsetting how expensive college is. If they make it so you have to go to college to be successful they could at least make it affordable. And Im not saying it should be free, but affordable. Its inexcusable.

Thats the main reason I never went to college.. its too fucking expensive. So now Im stuck at a shitty job making an embarrassingly low amount of money, but you know what I keep telling myself? At least Im not in debt from going to college.

Some of my friends did and theyre either stuck doing the same shit I am (while paying off loans) or they have real jobs but are still drowning in debt.

Who the hell decided that that was ok?

go to smaller college of a community one

the big problem is people think they need a big name state degree when that is not true, and those are the ones charging the price of a car for admissions

but then again, I graduated years ago, but at least at the time the smaller college was much more affordable

I got a scholarship that paid my way in the smaller college while if I went to the bigger state one with the same amount of money it would have barely paid for 1 semester
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Not really. More like job opportunities and 200k loans that are needed for those well paying, professional jobs.
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whats with your weird ass obsession with millenials? are you going through your midlife crisis after you realized trolling a video game web site for 10+ years gets you nowhere in life?
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thronedfire2 posted...

They left off the ball and chain for 'crippling student loan debt'

millennials have debt because they're too lazy to get a summer job to pay tuition
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darkphoenix181 posted...

rexcrk posted...

In all seriousness though, its kind of upsetting how expensive college is. If they make it so you have to go to college to be successful they could at least make it affordable. And Im not saying it should be free, but affordable. Its inexcusable.

Thats the main reason I never went to college.. its too fucking expensive. So now Im stuck at a shitty job making an embarrassingly low amount of money, but you know what I keep telling myself? At least Im not in debt from going to college.

Some of my friends did and theyre either stuck doing the same shit I am (while paying off loans) or they have real jobs but are still drowning in debt.

Who the hell decided that that was ok?

go to smaller college of a community one

the big problem is people think they need a state degree when that is not true, and those are the ones charging the price of a car for admissions

but then again, I graduated years ago, but at least at the time the smaller college was much more affordable

I went to a community college to get my associates, paid the entire thing out of pocket. Only needed loans when I transferred to get my bachelor's, and even then after two years I don't think I owed more than 12k. So pretty cheap overall. 10 years ago when I was done and I don't know how much it is now so.
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Darkman124 posted...

thronedfire2 posted...

They left off the ball and chain for 'crippling student loan debt'

the author has no interest in resolving that issue

people with an education tend not to support right wing positions

people with a degree*

Maybe you shouldn't make vacuous statements about people with education, just like conservatives shouldn't make vacuous statements about people with high incomes :)
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Burgess posted...

I went to a community college to get my associates, paid the entire thing out of pocket. Only needed loans when I transferred to get my bachelor's, and even then after two years I don't think I owed more than 12k. So pretty cheap overall. 10 years ago when I was done and I don't know how much it is now so.

I was able to do the same thing for the most part. Maybe a tiny bit more expensive now but still easily doable to pay your way through community college and through most of a 4 year if you hold at least a part-time job throughout the 4 years.
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rexcrk posted...

In all seriousness though, its kind of upsetting how expensive college is. If they make it so you have to go to college to be successful they could at least make it affordable. And Im not saying it should be free, but affordable. Its inexcusable.

Thats the main reason I never went to college.. its too fucking expensive. So now Im stuck at a shitty job making an embarrassingly low amount of money, but you know what I keep telling myself? At least Im not in debt from going to college.

Some of my friends did and theyre either stuck doing the same shit I am (while paying off loans) or they have real jobs but are still drowning in debt.

Who the hell decided that that was ok?

What you learn from college is economic behavior and the only thing amateur about amateur athletics is the athletes. Hats and t-shirt sales don't go back into the school, it is pocketed.
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I dropped out of college after my 1st year because it was too expensive. I didn't know exactly what I wanted to do with my life any way, and didn't want to pay another $13k to go to UTSA and take more "prerequisite" classes that I didn't care about.

Took me a while to actually figure out what I wanted to do, but I'm on my way.
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FLUFFYGERM posted...

people with a degree*

Maybe you shouldn't make vacuous statements about people with education, just like conservatives shouldn't make vacuous statements about people with high incomes :)

sure, it's fair to say that many people without a degree also have an education, and 'degree' is a more accurate term for the point i was making

there are some ways of making college more affordable. it's unfortunate that many of the most accessible ways are discouraged among young people

i had the good fortune of some of the less accessible, more desirable avenues available to me--graduate fellowships and undergraduate scholarships. i pursued those over more prestigious but costlier options.

but my nephew, who was not yet ready for college, opted to avoid the two-year-->four year option for pride related reasons, and his outcomes were unproductive and expensive.
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see

the thing is that workplaces for the most part don't say "oh he didn't go to a big name college!?" and then can the resume

what is more important is work experience

so a smaller degree with internship and extra curricular activity related to the field is better than a guy who went to a big name university usually

that said, ivy league is a bit different and there is also some universities that focus on a very very specific type of work

but to say you can't work professionally at a big name company without going to a big college is quite ignorant (not saying people here said that, but I know people in the world who think so)
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tbh taxes are one of the major reasons i do not own a house yet. it's out of control in my state.

and because i do not own a house it's also putting off starting a family even more. everything kind of snowballs from there.
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green butter posted...

tbh taxes are one of the major reasons i do not own a house yet. it's out of control in my state.

and because i do not own a house it's also putting off starting a family even more. everything kind of snowballs from there.

This is especially true in states like Illinois where a decent $200,000 house can have upwards of $8,000 in property taxes per year. Or more.
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How so?
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FLUFFYGERM posted...

This is especially true in states like Illinois where a decent $200,000 house can have upwards of $8,000 in property taxes per year. Or more.

fwiw, the average property tax paid in IL is about half that number and it doesn't appear that any part of the state has a 4% property tax rate (winnebago county is the second highest at 2.79%)

but it's definitely way out of place relative to the rest of the nation

https://smartasset.com/taxes/illinois-property-tax-calculator

The state of Illinois has the second highest property taxes in the country. The statewide average effective tax rate is 2.13%, nearly double the national average. The average homeowner in Illinois pays $3,887 annually in property taxes.

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FLUFFYGERM posted...

green butter posted...

tbh taxes are one of the major reasons i do not own a house yet. it's out of control in my state.

and because i do not own a house it's also putting off starting a family even more. everything kind of snowballs from there.

This is especially true in states like Illinois where a decent $200,000 house can have upwards of $8,000 in property taxes per year. Or more.

i live in NJ, which has the highest property taxes in the nation iirc.

if you want to live in a decent area in the northern part of the state (where the jobs are), you can be expected to pay $400k+ for a starter home, and then like 3.5% property tax on top of that. it's insane
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Darkman124 posted...

FLUFFYGERM posted...

This is especially true in states like Illinois where a decent $200,000 house can have upwards of $8,000 in property taxes per year. Or more.

fwiw, the average property tax paid in IL is about half that number and it doesn't appear that any part of the state has a 4% property tax rate.

but it's definitely way out of place relative to the rest of the nation

https://smartasset.com/taxes/illinois-property-tax-calculator

The state of Illinois has the second highest property taxes in the country. The statewide average effective tax rate is 2.13%, nearly double the national average. The average homeowner in Illinois pays $3,887 annually in property taxes.

That average is brought way down by the people who live in the middle of nowhere out in the countryside. If you live near any of the large cities, especially in Chicagoland or close to it, you'll be paying a lore more than $3887 if you want to own a decent home.
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Don't mind proudclad, he thinks that the property taxes for only a small part of the state makes up the entire tax structure of the state, and keeps saying it no matter how many times you explain it to him.
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green butter posted...

FLUFFYGERM posted...

green butter posted...

tbh taxes are one of the major reasons i do not own a house yet. it's out of control in my state.

and because i do not own a house it's also putting off starting a family even more. everything kind of snowballs from there.

This is especially true in states like Illinois where a decent $200,000 house can have upwards of $8,000 in property taxes per year. Or more.

i live in NJ, which has the highest property taxes in the nation iirc.

if you want to live in a decent area in the northern part of the state (where the jobs are), you can be expected to pay $400k+ for a starter home, and then like 3.5% property tax on top of that. it's insane

Yeah, it's crazy. It's one of the big reasons why Illinois has the most young people leaving for other states.
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I like the idea of this cartoon, but that big step should be "graduating college", followed by the other steps

These days almost every good job requires a college degree
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Burgess posted...

Don't mind proudclad, he thinks that the property taxes for only a small part of the state makes up the entire tax structure of the state, and keeps saying it no matter how many times you explain it to him.

The state as a whole is losing people at an alarming rate, with the taxes being one of the most cited reasons.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/business/ct-biz-homeowners-leaving-illinois-20170919-story.html
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I'm not doing this with you again because it always ends with you saying the same thing over and over and getting beaten to death and I don't have the time today.
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FLUFFYGERM posted...

That average is brought way down by the people who live in the middle of nowhere out in the countryside. If you live near any of the large cities, especially in Chicagoland or close to it, you'll be paying a lore more than $3887 if you want to own a decent home.

are you still talking about $200,000 homes or did you abandon that metric in this post

the site i linked to quotes effective property taxes for each county; the highest is about 2.8% (which is still very high, but much less than your initial post)
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this is the original cartoon if anyone was wondering

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DQbgHtXUEAEGoA3.jpg

instead of the bullshit conservative photoshop tc posted
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Burgess posted...

I'm not doing this with you again because it always ends with you saying the same thing over and over and getting beaten to death and I don't have the time today.

Keep shitposting if you want, but the data shows that I'm right and you're wrong. Illinois has the most people leaving out of any state. And the fewest new jobs being created.

Darkman124 posted...

FLUFFYGERM posted...

That average is brought way down by the people who live in the middle of nowhere out in the countryside. If you live near any of the large cities, especially in Chicagoland or close to it, you'll be paying a lore more than $3887 if you want to own a decent home.

are you still talking about $200,000 homes or did you abandon that metric in this post

the site i linked to quotes effective property taxes for each county; the highest is about 2.8% (which is still very high, but much less than your initial post)

The $200,000 home with $8,000+ property taxes is definitely an outlier. I never said that was the norm. The norm is still enormous yearly property taxes, though. Where I live right now there are homes that are in the $200,000 to $250,000 range and $5,000+ property taxes are common.
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FLUFFYGERM posted...

Where I live right now there are homes that are in the $200,000 to $250,000 range and $5,000+ property taxes are common.

i believe that: the metrics for kendall, lake, and will counties support the assertion that they face ~$5000 property taxes. IL property taxes are definitely way out of line with the rest of the nation, and even within the state the variation is huge

i think the 200,000 home with $8000+ property taxes does not exist at all, though.
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Property taxes only hurt the middle class

Start the property taxes if you own more than one property, but before that there shouldn't be any.
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I was looking at an $80,000 house as an investment property and the taxes were $5,000. Granted the house was basically a shell and the yard was a dump, but finished it would be a $140,000 to $150,000 property, so those houses are out there. Granted I'm in New Jersey though, and we have some of the most punitive property taxes in the country.
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Damn_Underscore posted...

Property taxes only hurt the middle class

Start the property taxes if you own more than one property, but before that there shouldn't be any.

Brilliant idea, because towns don't need revenue to operate or anything. I'm all for limiting government and lowering taxes, but this plan, no. I like the fact that we have a police force, and a fire department, and people come to the side of my house and empty the trash cans once a week.
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Keep shitposting if you want, but the data shows that I'm right and you're wrong. Illinois has the most people leaving out of any state. And the fewest new jobs being created.

I wasn't even talking about that because you always bring it up when it has no reason to, like you started talking about taxes being high everywhere when it's not and then shift to this. Also the norm is still not enormously high, I've gone over this with you before to where it's not the state that even sets it, it's the counties and it's high in Cook and everywhere like that because there's more people living there so more general upkeep is needed so more revenue so higher taxes. Cook and those counties are not the norm in the state.

Please don't divert this to state workers pay again either.
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_Near_ posted...

this is the original cartoon if anyone was wondering

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DQbgHtXUEAEGoA3.jpg

instead of the bullshit conservative photoshop tc posted

Lmao, the original cartoon makes a whole lot more sense in this context.
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Burgess posted...

it's the counties and it's high in Cook and everywhere like that because there's more people living there so more general upkeep is needed so more revenue so higher taxes

fwiw, almost all property taxes are used to fund schools.

one of the more productive discussions proudclad and i have had was the relatively poor cost-per-student to performance ratio of cook county's public school system. it is very well funded but has bad results, and i'm inclined to think that many of the drivers of this are entirely outside the school system's control (family engagement with young students, especially during the summer, for example).
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_Near_ posted...

this is the original cartoon if anyone was wondering

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DQbgHtXUEAEGoA3.jpg

instead of the bullshit conservative photoshop tc posted

this one is dumber though

i doubt the average young person is saddled with medical debt lol. and while student loan debt is a pain in the ass for people who just graduated, according to Google the avg student loan debt for an American is $30k, with the person paying between $200 and $300 a month.

honestly that isnt that much, thats like a car payment for a new Corolla or something lol.
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Darkman124 posted...

FLUFFYGERM posted...

Where I live right now there are homes that are in the $200,000 to $250,000 range and $5,000+ property taxes are common.

i believe that: the metrics for kendall, lake, and will counties support ~$5000 property taxes.

i think the 200,000 home with $8000+ property taxes does not exist at all, though.

Here's one:

https://tinyurl.com/y9ca95wq

$145,000 price in foreclosure (probably $200,000 if it wasn't in foreclosure), $9,703 in property taxes in the most recent tax year.

You gotta know where to look, but it's not too hard to find these examples. Plenty of homes in that price range that are just a tax increase away from being in that type of tax range, btw.

Note that these comical outliers aren't changing the fact that Illinois property taxes are insane and one of the big reasons why the state is going to collapse.
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Burgess posted...

Keep shitposting if you want, but the data shows that I'm right and you're wrong. Illinois has the most people leaving out of any state. And the fewest new jobs being created.

I wasn't even talking about that because you always bring it up when it has no reason to, like you started talking about taxes being high everywhere when it's not and then shift to this. Also the norm is still not enormously high, I've gone over this with you before to where it's not the state that even sets it, it's the counties and it's high in Cook and everywhere like that because there's more people living there so more general upkeep is needed so more revenue so higher taxes. Cook and those counties are not the norm in the state.

Please don't divert this to state workers pay again either.

Well, when people say Illinois is losing more people than any other state and has the lowest amount of job creation, of course that's mostly going to be because of Cook. It's not the only county but it's the one where all the action happens. If Cook collapses, Illinois collapses.
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fwiw, almost all property taxes are used to fund schools.

Eh, it's variable, but property taxes are how counties generate most of their revenue, aside from some sales taxes.
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well ok

explain how some states get by with much lower property taxes than others. Or a state like Louisiana - relatively low home values and very low property taxes
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FLUFFYGERM posted...

Here's one:

https://tinyurl.com/y9ca95wq

$145,000 price in foreclosure (probably $200,000 if it wasn't in foreclosure), $9,703 in property taxes in the most recent tax year.

You gotta know where to look, but it's not too hard to find these examples. Plenty of homes in that price range that are just a tax increase away from being in that type of tax range, btw.

Note that these comical outliers aren't changing the fact that Illinois property taxes are insane and one of the big reasons why the state is going to collapse.

that is very interesting!

http://www.bestplaces.net/economy/zip-code/illinois/homewood/60430

its zip code's property tax rate must be the highest in IL, 3.75%. remarkable.

as we can see, the high tax is driven by its assessed value of ~250k, which unfortunately due to the way tax assessments tend to work, isn't reflective of the condition of the house that drives its sale value way down.

what's most remarkable about this example is that the zip code is not especially wealthy.

thankfully, that kind of lunatic tax system is not common anywhere.

Burgess posted...

fwiw, almost all property taxes are used to fund schools.

Eh, it's variable, but property taxes are how counties generate most of their revenue, aside from some sales taxes.

no argument there: i'm just noting that the public school system is their primary spending.
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Well, when people say Illinois is losing more people than any other state and has the lowest amount of job creation, of course that's mostly going to be because of Cook. It's not the only county but it's the one where all the action happens. If Cook collapses, Illinois collapses.

Holy shit I'm talking about the average of property taxes like you originally were, not about people leaving like again has nothing to do with anything.
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Philoktetes posted...

thronedfire2 posted...

They left off the ball and chain for 'crippling student loan debt'

millennials have debt because they're too lazy to get a summer job to pay tuition

A summer job can't pay tuition. Even at $20 an hour full time (unrealistically high for a summer job), that's not enough to pay for a single year at a community college.

Anyway, the picture in the OP had "crippling student loan debt" and "medical bills" on the ball and chain. Some ignorant right wing edgelord changed it.
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Damn_Underscore posted...

well ok

explain how some states get by with much lower property taxes than others. Or a state like Louisiana - relatively low home values and very low property taxes

they don't have politicians and state employees who are corrupt and greedy
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DarkChozoGhost posted...

Even at $20 an hour full time (unrealistically high for a summer job), that's not enough to pay for a single year at a community college.

i don't know about that--40hrs/week for 8-12 weeks is 6400-9600 pretax (~5000-7500 post-tax) so depending on the environment of the worker (living with parents, etc) it may well be enough for a year of CC.

not enough for a year at a four year university, though, unless it's a state school and you live at home.
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I think that starting a family step is a little too early on the case
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