Current Events > My thoughts on "The Last Jedi" (obvious spoilers)

(+) Yeah! (+)

I'm gonna try this in bullet points and I'll add things as I think of them.

-I simultaneously think it's a little silly how vitriolic some people are being about it, but also completely understand why some people disliked the direction it went.

-The most emblematic scene of the whole movie was Yoda and Luke burning down the ancient Jedi texts. That's the "thesis" of the whole thing. I think some people saw this film and got upset that it "shit all over the originals" or ruined Luke or made the original trilogy pointless... I don't think that's true at all. I think the message was that all ages pass, and sometimes you do have to let the old die and let something new grow in its place. It's a not-so-thinly-veiled metaphor for the direction of Star Wars.

-On a related note, I don't really understand the argument that it makes the originals pointless. Was World War 1 pointless because there was later a World War 2? It doesn't marginalize the accomplishments of Luke, Leia, and Han.

-One of the things I liked most was how we got three different versions of the scene where Luke visited Kylo in his sleep. We saw the "sterile" version where Luke was just trying to talk to him and Kylo went batshit, we saw the twisted version where Luke was about to just straight up murder him, and then we saw the actual truth of what happened where Luke briefly considered it for half a second, thought "what am I doing?", but Kylo had already woken up and assumed the worst. I thought that was pretty neat and believable, as I was having trouble digesting the "Luke just decided to kill me in my sleep" angle.

-Kylo is, removing nostalgia from the equation, the most interesting villain we've ever had in a mainline Star Wars movie. I love how he and Rey are portrayed as two sides of the same "I have no idea what the fuck I'm doing" coin, and I enjoyed how him killing Snoke wasn't really a redemption moment for him and he remains on the Dark Side.

-Speaking of Snoke, I do fall into the camp that wishes we got some explanation for where he came from and I'm hoping we maybe get that retroactively in the third movie, BUT I'm totally cool with the twist of Kylo killing him. I've seen some complaints of people not knowing what the third movie could possibly entail, but I think that's the point and I like it quite a lot. Kylo's take on "burn it all down, start over" is meta for the turning point of the franchise, and I'm glad we didn't just get an emperor clone as the long-term big bad that Kylo could kill for redemption later.

-Didn't mind Luke's "death," because I felt it was more just a matter of being at peace and becoming one with the Force than being outright killed. I think it's a pretty safe bet he'll be making a force ghost cameo or two next movie.

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-Major props for returning to puppet Yoda instead of the CGI one and giving him his "Rafiki vibe" back. The prequels never really got what made Yoda fun.

-Superman Leia was RIDICULOUS and if they wanted a way to knock her unconscious for most of the movie, there had to have been a less weird way.

-Purple Hair Girl was profoundly annoying and I think it was kind of sloppily handled, but I thought it was a nice subversion of the "Umbridge" stereotype (or other media where a difficult bad-cop second in command shows up) that she actually had a good plan. I've seen some people ask why she didn't just tell Poe, but frankly Poe was still in the wrong and needed to learn his rank. That said, not sure why she didn't just tell him by the time there was a literal mutiny on her hands. I would've liked to see more guilt from Poe or more time spent on how many people he inadvertently got killed via the scummy hacker dude.

-Finn and Rose were... okay. Definitely the weakest part of the movie. I didn't mind the casino itself, it felt a bit like the cantina in a classic way, but I didn't really get the diversion into animal cruelty. What it really felt like to me was a Mass Effect sidequest. Right from Maz laying out the details, it just had this weird sort of "questgiver" vibe to it and it felt a little weird. I didn't like Rose as a character either, I didn't think she was a particularly strong character and in no way did I feel love or chemistry between Finn and Rose outside of just going through hell together.
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Dont agree with cgi Yoda. It looked like a cartoon.
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Ludwig Von 2 posted...

Dont agree with cgi Yoda. It looked like a cartoon.

A bit, but it was nicely nostalgic. I wouldn't have hated if they went CGI either, but the personality was important.
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Ludwig Von 2 posted...

Dont agree with cgi Yoda. It looked like a cartoon.

This.

I was literally wtfing the entire time

And I saw it in IMAX
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The way Kylo killed Snoke was lame af.
Princess Liea flying through space was dumb af.

Rey is such a useless and pointless character. Hated her in VII and hate her more now VIII.

It was dumb to have Luke die as the last Jedi and then burn all the ancient texts for the Jedi, but then turn around and point at Rey for being the next Jedi when she wasnt even trained or read the books. It would have made more sense to have a new class for Rey not call her a Jedi when the last official Jedi is dead.

The direction is now a bunch of whiny teenagers having the entire galaxy in their hand to play with.
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Slaya4 posted...

It was dumb to have Luke die as the last Jedi and then burn all the ancient texts for the Jedi, but then turn around and point at Rey for being the next Jedi when she wasnt even trained or read the books. It would have made more sense to have a new class for Rey not call her a Jedi when the last official Jedi is dead.

I think that'st he point. Luke saying he wouldn't be the last Jedi doesn't mean he wasn't the last of the actual "Jedi Order," since he was pretty intentional about making sure that was the case. I agree they could come up with a new name, though.
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Slaya4 posted...

It was dumb to have Luke die as the last Jedi and then burn all the ancient texts for the Jedi, but then turn around and point at Rey for being the next Jedi when she wasnt even trained or read the books. It would have made more sense to have a new class for Rey not call her a Jedi when the last official Jedi is dead.

But she has the texts tho
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I'm okay with Kylo's (and Rian's) approach of "killing the past." Actually, I think that Luke's character is very well-handled in TLJ.

My main gripe with the movie is that Rian also burned down a lot of what JJ set up in TFA. The new trilogy doesn't feel cohesive to me, at this point. Instead, I feel a jarring shift in authorial intent.
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Polycosm posted...

I'm okay with Kylo's (and Rian's) approach of "killing the past." Actually, I think that Luke's character is very well-handled in TLJ.

My main gripe with the movie is that Rian also burned down a lot of what JJ set up in TFA. The new trilogy doesn't feel cohesive to me, at this point. Instead, I feel a jarring shift in authorial intent.

Could very well be. Episode 9 going back to JJ will be very telling regarding whether he was on board with this vision or not.
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Negative thought: Rose is awful. Mostly her actress is just garbage, but she had some bad material too. The more I think about it, the more she bugs me.
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Agree with a lot of your thoughts. A few things I disagree with:

I liked Holdo's character (purple haired lady). I thought maybe it could have been handled better but it's actually nice to see chaos and confusion during time of crisis instead of everyone working perfectly in harmony all the time. Her character was a good reflection of how Poe wasn't fully mature or prepared to lead. I do wish he had a moment to appreciate her leadership instead of letting her sacrifice end in a blip.

I didn't mind Finn and Rose so much. I wonder if their scenes were more for the younger audience. I'm sure the kids in the audience aren't going to appreciate Kylo's abs as much or Reylo's skype sessions lol. The atmosphere at the casino and the child slaves may have been scenes to engage the younger audience. I was still entertained by it. Just didn't appreciate it as much as any scene with Kylo or Rey. Those two were electric.

Mimichan posted...

Agree with a lot of your thoughts. A few things I disagree with:

I liked Holdo's character (purple haired lady). I thought maybe it could have been handled better but it's actually nice to see chaos and confusion during time of crisis instead of everyone working perfectly in harmony all the time. Her character was a good reflection of how Poe wasn't fully mature or prepared to lead. I do wish he had a moment to appreciate her leadership instead of letting her sacrifice end in a blip.

I didn't mind Finn and Rose so much. I wonder if their scenes were more for the younger audience. I'm sure the kids in the audience aren't going to appreciate Kylo's abs as much or Reylo's skype sessions lol. The atmosphere at the casino and the child slaves may have been scenes to engage the younger audience. I was still entertained by it. Just didn't appreciate it as much as any scene with Kylo or Rey. Those two were electric.

All fair points.
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Speaking of stuff for the kids, call it comic relief, call it low-brow, call it merchandising, whatever I loved the porgs. They were hilarious and had a combined like 80 seconds of screentime, so its not like they detracted from anything. They were funny and adorable, and the scene where Chewy is guilty about eating one was great.

FIGHT ME
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I also really liked the 3 ways it happened.

And the purple lady. I hated her. Hated her. Hated her. Oh shit she's got a real plan and made the sacrifice. Didn't see that coming.
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Chewie ate one??
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shockthemonkey posted...

Mr_Biscuit posted...

Speaking of stuff for the kids, call it comic relief, call it low-brow, call it merchandising, whatever I loved the porgs. They were hilarious and had a combined like 80 seconds of screentime, so its not like they detracted from anything. They were funny and adorable, and the scene where Chewy is guilty about eating one was great.

FIGHT ME

Yeah I was actually pretty impressed how they worked the cutesy characters in without letting them distract or detract.

Yes! I was one of those people in the theater who laughed really loudly whenever they showed up. And Chewie's exasperation!

Cj_WlLL_VVlN posted...

And the purple lady. I hated her. Hated her. Hated her. Oh shit she's got a real plan and made the sacrifice. Didn't see that coming.

Haha yeah that's how I felt at first. I was like "I don't trust you lady. You clearly don't know what you're doing. Nooo you're going to ruin Poe's plan! Wait you had your own plan? Wait, you're sacrificing yourself now? Definitely don't hate you anymore."

A rollercoaster of emotions.

3khc posted...

Chewie ate one??

Yeah, man. Had it roasted like a rotisserie chicken.
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Mr_Biscuit posted...

3khc posted...

Chewie ate one??

Yeah, man. Had it roasted like a rotisserie chicken.

I thought that was a simple sandwich lol and that the chicken things were hungry.

I didn't realize they were crying because he ate them. Are you sure?
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Yeah man that was definitely a roasted porg. It still had the little feet and everything.

__aCEr__ posted...

Yeah man that was definitely a roasted porg. It still had the little feet and everything.

100%
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Mr_Biscuit posted...

-One of the things I liked most was how we got three different versions of the scene where Luke visited Kylo in his sleep. We saw the "sterile" version where Luke was just trying to talk to him and Kylo went bats***, we saw the twisted version where Luke was about to just straight up murder him, and then we saw the actual truth of what happened where Luke briefly considered it for half a second, thought "what am I doing?", but Kylo had already woken up and assumed the worst. I thought that was pretty neat and believable, as I was having trouble digesting the "Luke just decided to kill me in my sleep" angle.

The best part about this is how it echoes back to both the Prequel Trilogy (from my point of view the Jedi are evil!) AND the Original Trilogy (what I told you was true... from a certain point of view). They do a much better job of portraying the different points of view here than they did in the prequels, though.

Theres definitely a LOT to nitpick about in this movie (like why have Phasma in it at all?) but it has so many little moments like this that are incredibly powerful and have a lot of depth.
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I dont really get the Phasma complaints Ive seen. I feel like its gotta just be that people hyped her up or something. Ive never viewed her as more than a mini-boss.
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Mr_Biscuit posted...

The most emblematic scene of the whole movie was Yoda and Luke burning down the ancient Jedi texts. That's the "thesis" of the whole thing. I think some people saw this film and got upset that it "shit all over the originals" or ruined Luke or made the original trilogy pointless... I don't think that's true at all. I think the message was that all ages pass, and sometimes you do have to let the old die and let something new grow in its place. It's a not-so-thinly-veiled metaphor for the direction of Star Wars.

Rey took the Jedi texts before she left the island.
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She wasn't even a mini-boss, though. The stormtrooper who fought Finn in TFA did better than Phasma. She is the most pointless character in these new movies. There was no reason to bring her back in TLJ.

Mr_Biscuit posted...

I dont really get the Phasma complaints Ive seen. I feel like its gotta just be that people hyped her up or something. Ive never viewed her as more than a mini-boss.

I just looked at it more as, in a two and a half hour movie, you can afford to trim some parts. I didnt feel like she added much to the character development of Finn, so why bother having her in there in the first place? They neither made her important enough to be a meaningful mini-boss, nor did they allow her to stick around enough to become a good mini-boss in the next movie. Seems pointless to me is all.
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Are fanboys gonna be lusting over the chubby Asian girl? I hope not.
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Scaramanga posted...

Are fanboys gonna be lusting over the chubby Asian girl? I hope not.

Worst part of the film IMO
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Scaramanga posted...

Are fanboys gonna be lusting over the chubby Asian girl? I hope not.

Quite the opposite. People seem to really hate her. Honestly haven't heard one person say they've liked her.
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TommyG663513 posted...

Scaramanga posted...

Are fanboys gonna be lusting over the chubby Asian girl? I hope not.

Quite the opposite. People seem to really hate her. Honestly haven't heard one person say they've liked her.

I had heard all this stuff about this new lead being played by an Asian actress, and when I was watching the movie and they got to the bombing run part (with her sister) I was like ... thats it? That was the new lead everyone was talking about? She barely did anything!

I didnt hate her character - in a way she and their pointless side quest are essential to Finns character arc. The kiss was something I felt was let really necessary though.
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I basically agree with TC here.

Kylo's scenes were strong, in general. I enjoyed how much more interesting he was in this than in TFA.

Leia in space was AWFUL. And the rest of the characters just never mentioned that it happened afterwards.

The stuff with Luke I think is fine, I don't agree with the people who say him becoming jaded ruins the character.

I do wish Snoke came with more explanation. We don't have any idea how he came to power, or what he was doing before that.
I am concerned that there won't be a good enough villain in Ep 9 without Snoke, since we already know Kylo can be beaten by the protagonists.

There were a few too many jokes squeezed in. It threw the tone off a bit.
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A bonus I forgot to mention LOVED Snoke roasting Kylos knockoff Vader mask.
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__aCEr__ posted...

She wasn't even a mini-boss, though. The stormtrooper who fought Finn in TFA did better than Phasma. She is the most pointless character in these new movies. There was no reason to bring her back in TLJ.

At least she didn't fold like a cheap suit in this movie as she did in Force Awakens, where when threatened with death she almost immediately gave up the codes to disable the death star shield.

Mr_Biscuit posted...

A bonus I forgot to mention LOVED Snoke roasting Kylos knockoff Vader mask.

And making fun of his loss to a girl with no light saber training. The elevator tantrum afterwards helps set up the second throne room scene where Kylo betrays him.

Sonic Cannon posted...

I basically agree with TC here.

Kylo's scenes were strong, in general. I enjoyed how much more interesting he was in this than in TFA.

Leia in space was AWFUL. And the rest of the characters just never mentioned that it happened afterwards.

The stuff with Luke I think is fine, I don't agree with the people who say him becoming jaded ruins the character.

I do wish Snoke came with more explanation. We don't have any idea how he came to power, or what he was doing before that.
I am concerned that there won't be a good enough villain in Ep 9 without Snoke, since we already know Kylo can be beaten by the protagonists.

There were a few too many jokes squeezed in. It threw the tone off a bit.

I loved the Leia scene. She apparently became a master of the force during the period between ROTJ and TFA. But I agree with some of the jokes. They bordered on the type of jokes you see in parodies, like in Space Balls. Especially the scene where Rey cuts that rock in half causing part of it to tumble down the cliff and destroy that cart.

__aCEr__ posted...

Yeah man that was definitely a roasted porg. It still had the little feet and everything.

That was creepy.

UnholyMudcrab posted...

Mr_Biscuit posted...

The most emblematic scene of the whole movie was Yoda and Luke burning down the ancient Jedi texts. That's the "thesis" of the whole thing. I think some people saw this film and got upset that it "shit all over the originals" or ruined Luke or made the original trilogy pointless... I don't think that's true at all. I think the message was that all ages pass, and sometimes you do have to let the old die and let something new grow in its place. It's a not-so-thinly-veiled metaphor for the direction of Star Wars.

Rey took the Jedi texts before she left the island.

I took that as meaning that the knowledge in those texts was already within her.

I agree with TC pretty much on all points.

People keep saying "the Resistance plot was pointless" and "all Poe achieved was putting Finn's life in danger and getting most of the Resistance killed". And I personally kinda like that. It fits with Poe's character, and illustrates perfectly why Holdo wanted nothing to do with him in the first place.

I like when the good guys fuck up like that.

However, they didn't really address it much. If Poe had a moment where he was just "Oh my god I got all those people killed" I feel like people wouldn't be responding so negatively to it.

I also agree with the Yoda and Luke scene. That is one of the most important scenes in the film. In addition to being well done with some nice callbacks. "Pass on what you've learned. Not just the successes, but the failures". And Kylo (in one of my favorite bits of dialogue) says the theme of the film outright: "Let the past die".

That's what the movie is all about. It's about the turning of an age and a new generation of heroes and villains. Rey rising in Luke's place, Kylo rising in Snokes, etc. I personally love it, but I can see why the execution of it may have irked some people the wrong way.

I would've liked to have known what was up with Snoke. But at the end of the day I realized I didn't really care, and am happier they took this direction anyway. Since it's far more interesting to have him killed than to have another "ancient deformed bad guy on a throne in a robe"
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Ammonitida posted...

I took that as meaning that the knowledge in those texts was already within her.

Maybe, but also she literally took them with her. Theres a shot where Finn opens a drawer on the Falcon to get something and the books are there.

Doom_Art posted...

If Poe had a moment where he was just "Oh my god I got all those people killed" I feel like people wouldn't be responding so negatively to it.

He did demonstrate a moment of clarity when he called off the attack on the battering ram cannon and tried to order Finn to bail on his suicide mission. Its true that we didnt seem him break down over the realization of what he did, but we got to see that he had learned from his failure, which is sort of the point, no? I agree that it would have probably been more well-received if they had shown him actually coming to grips with the lesson. Maybe they thought that would be too much, I dont know.
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@Doom_Art Your comment is on point. I agree with it completely! I loved the Luke/Yoda scene too. And I also didn't care about Snoke anymore. Just like you said, the theme is to let the past die. In many ways, I feel like this is a message to the fans too. We love the old movies but things are going to change now. It's ok to embrace the change.

Yeah, if theres any critique for the direction, I think its that you could make the argument that perhaps you shouldve kept this paradigm shift for the finale instead of mid-trilogy, to set up future movies. I dont really mind but I get the argument.
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MrToothHasYou posted...

He did demonstrate a moment of clarity when he called off the attack on the battering ram cannon and tried to order Finn to bail on his suicide mission. Its true that we didnt seem him break down over the realization of what he did, but we got to see that he had learned from his failure, which is sort of the point, no? I agree that it would have probably been more well-received if they had shown him actually coming to grips with the lesson. Maybe they thought that would be too much, I dont know.

It's a little bit of a shift in the character (no doubt we'll see a greater one in IX), also in how he behaves inside the base in Crait, it does play up his new sense of leadership and responsibility. Taking charge of the situation, Leia saying "what are you looking at me for? follow him"

But yeah, especially given how devoted Poe is to the Resistance, I would've expected his reaction would have been more in the league of "Oh my god this is all my fault"

I think a bit more of an obvious and strong reaction from him is warranted in the situation.

Mimichan posted...

In many ways, I feel like this is a message to the fans too. We love the old movies but things are going to change now. It's ok to embrace the change.

Mhm, I personally love the message. Star Wars can't stay the same forever. The Jedi don't have a monopoly on the force, the Skywalkers don't have a monopoly on saving the galaxy. Things are gonna be different now.

Mr_Biscuit posted...

Yeah, if theres any critique for the direction, I think its that you could make the argument that perhaps you shouldve kept this paradigm shift for the finale instead of mid-trilogy, to set up future movies. I dont really mind but I get the argument.

If anything felt that that sort of shift maybe should've been the focus of the first film in the sequels if anything (IIRC that may have been the original draft of VII before the rewrite), but maybe that would've been too much to fit into what's supposed to be a reintroduction to the franchise.

Again, I love the theme and message, but I can understand why some people aren't digging the execution of it.
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Also a funny thing I picked up on after seeing it again Friday.

When Rey is first trying to get Luke to come with her he says something like "What do you think I'll do? Walk out with a laser sword and face down the entire First Order?"
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Doom_Art posted...

Walk out with a laser sword

This line irrationally bothers me.
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I Like Toast posted...

Doom_Art posted...

Walk out with a laser sword

This line irrationally bothers me.

I like the line itself but the fact that it's Luke saying it is a bit odd, yeah.

Like I always thought "laser sword" was what space hicks called lightsabers.
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He's just using simple terms to emphasize how ridiculous an idea it is
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UnholyMudcrab posted...

He's just using simple terms to emphasize how ridiculous an idea it is

It's not like lightsaber isn't a simple term, arguably simpler. But as I said it's completely irrational on my end, it just bugs me.
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Doom_Art posted...

Like I always thought "laser sword" was what space hicks called lightsabers.

Was he NOT a space hick?
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dave_is_slick posted...

Was he NOT a space hick?

I mean he may be living on an island in the middle of nowhere with some weird caretaking aliens and a bunch of not-penguins, spending his days fishing and drinking alien titty milk, but he's still a jedi master
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