Current Events > If Trump is such a horrible president, why haven't the markets reflected it?

(+) Yeah! (+)

Generally if theres great risk of instability to a nations future, the markets usually reflect that by being more volitaile. Yet with Trump, whos supposedly ruining America, not only are the markets not highly volatile, its doing better than ever. So are liberals just greatly exaggerating how bad Trump is. Because to me it seems like every word out of their mouth is how Trump is destroying America, and yet no economic indicator reflects that
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Even Bitcoin has gone up 1000% since Donald Trump became president
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Trump Bubble
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I'm sure the market forces dropped drastically when Andrew Jackson orchestrated genocide.

yeah when has the market ever grown right before a disaster????????

I've not been keeping up with American politics (or hell, really looking back on them), but my understanding is Trump is a businessman first and foremost, not a politician. It would make sense he would know the right things to do to keep an economy afloat, but at the cost of poor understanding of politics and keeping peace between nations.

That's likely what the Trump-haters fear. A good economy's not going to save you from a nuke on your head.
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This argument assumes the only indicators of a good presidency are very short term market fluctuations.
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what is fiscal year
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economics is a soft science

Lol no
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Because the markets going up is a terrible thing according to the left
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AngelsNAirwav3s posted...

Because the markets going up is a terrible thing according to the left

Attacking a strawman won't get you anywhere, though
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As was previously said, he's a business man so he's doing everything he can to make himself a buck at the cost of some other important things like health care, education, the environment, and a free and open internet.
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pinky0926 posted...

This argument assumes the only indicators of a good presidency are very short term market fluctuations.

Theres other indicators such as unemployment rate which is also doing fantastic under the Trump presidency. Sure you can attribute that a lot to Obama, but the way liberals have been describing Trump as Satan, you would think nothing in America would be going positively anymore
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Ranting Nord posted...

As was previously said, he's a business man so he's doing everything he can to make himself a buck at the cost of some other important things like health care, education, the environment, and a free and open internet.

Businesses and markets reflect according to political components as well, not just business factors. If America is about to be destroyed because of Trump, then businesses would reflect that because their future would be in jeopardy if the political climate is unstable
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AngelsNAirwav3s posted...

Because the markets going up is a terrible thing according to the left

Yea thats why the left spent 8 years criticizing Obama
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Kazi1212 posted...

pinky0926 posted...

This argument assumes the only indicators of a good presidency are very short term market fluctuations.

Theres other indicators such as unemployment rate which is also doing fantastic under the Trump presidency. Sure you can attribute that a lot to Obama, but the way liberals have been describing Trump as Satan, you would think nothing in America would be going positively anymore

Ok so basically the economy is doing better which is dubiously attributed to Trump at best. Meanwhile, he is making a lot of legislative and policy decisions that any liberal would consider pretty hellish.

You realise you don't have a foreign policy anymore, right? Like literally, America has just given up on foreign policy. You basically have no diplomats left. That's a thing that has actually happened and can be directly attributed to Trump and only Trump.
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Ving_Rhames posted...

what is fiscal year

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@Darkman124
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The markets have no morality. The stock market would boom if you slashed taxes and repealed the 19th amendment, because they don't measure anything other than shareholder value.
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Antifar posted...

The markets have no morality. The stock market would boom if you slashed taxes and repealed the 19th amendment, because they don't measure anything other than shareholder value.

exactly
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pinky0926 posted...

Kazi1212 posted...

pinky0926 posted...

This argument assumes the only indicators of a good presidency are very short term market fluctuations.

Theres other indicators such as unemployment rate which is also doing fantastic under the Trump presidency. Sure you can attribute that a lot to Obama, but the way liberals have been describing Trump as Satan, you would think nothing in America would be going positively anymore

Ok so basically the economy is doing better which is dubiously attributed to Trump at best. Meanwhile, he is making a lot of legislative and policy decisions that any liberal would consider pretty hellish.

You realise you don't have a foreign policy anymore, right? Like literally, America has just given up on foreign policy. You basically have no diplomats left. That's a thing that has actually happened and can be directly attributed to Trump and only Trump.

One of the most significant factors the markets look for is foreign policy, because that is a significant sign of how stable geopolitical climate is going to be in the coming future thereby affecting businesses and corporations. And yet it looks like the markets think the geopolitical climate will be ok in the recent future under the Trump. So Im not sure how valid your opinions to are here. Listen, Im not saying Trump isnt a bad president or making pretty bad decisions, Im saying its not as bad as the fear mongering liberals will have you believe that Trump is literally destroying America
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Antifar posted...

The markets have no morality. The stock market would boom if you slashed taxes and repealed the 19th amendment, because they don't measure anything other than shareholder value.

I guarantee you it wouldnt boom if you repealed the 19th amendment, that would be a highly volatile decision putting Americas future political climate in jeopardy. And yea, obviously markets dont follow moral principles, but thats not to say there isnt at least a mild degree of positive correlation between markets and how well people are off.
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People are so brainwashed.
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KazumaKiryu posted...

People are so brainwashed.

This. Objectively he has done just fine.
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he hasn't really done much of anything to make a huge impact on the market other than the general attitude of investors.

The economy is long overdue for a recession, I'm not going to immediately jump on the bandwagon to blame him for that when it inevitably happens either.
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Kazi1212 - Liberals HATE him

Kazi1212 posted...

One of the most significant factors the markets look for is foreign policy, because that is a significant sign of how stable geopolitical climate is going to be in the coming future thereby affecting businesses and corporations. And yet it looks like the markets think the geopolitical climate will be ok in the recent future under the Trump. So Im not sure how valid your opinions to are here. Listen, Im not saying Trump isnt a bad president or making pretty bad decisions, Im saying its not as bad as the fear mongering liberals will have you believe that Trump is literally destroying America

You're using short term indicators to assess a situation that is going to have long term impacts.

Net Neutrality. With that gone, how different will the internet look in 10 years?

Climate change. With Trump's aggressive "fuck the environment, it's all a chinese hoax anyway", how different will the world look compared to someone with a viewpoint that falls in line with what the relevant scientific community tends to think?

Energy. How will supporting coal versus supporting renewables affect the economy over the next 30 years?

Immigration. Trump wants to kick out all the Muslims. How different will America look in 10 years with a ban on people from various countries vs without?

Tax cuts. Let's see how this pans out over the next 10 years too.

Regardless of whether you support these decisions or not based on whether you think they'll do good or harm, these are the kinds of long term policy and legislative matters that will be sticking around long after some short term market gains.

Finally in regards to my comments about diplomacy:

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/donald-trump-fires-us-ambassadors-no-replacements-a7538256.html
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/nov/08/top-ranks-of-us-diplomacy-depleted-at-dizzying-speed-under-trump

Trump has gone about firing diplomats (with many other resigning) and the critical issue here is that those positions are not being replaced. We're not talking about the kinds of diplomats that change with any administration, but the ones that have been around for 20+ years.
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He is not bad for business, just like Obama wasn't either. Policies that benefit 5% of the population will be good for the market.

Pay no attention to the FIRE sector behind the curtain Dorothy, look at the giant flaming head.

pinky0926 posted...

Kazi1212 posted...

One of the most significant factors the markets look for is foreign policy, because that is a significant sign of how stable geopolitical climate is going to be in the coming future thereby affecting businesses and corporations. And yet it looks like the markets think the geopolitical climate will be ok in the recent future under the Trump. So Im not sure how valid your opinions to are here. Listen, Im not saying Trump isnt a bad president or making pretty bad decisions, Im saying its not as bad as the fear mongering liberals will have you believe that Trump is literally destroying America

You're using short term indicators to assess a situation that is going to have long term impacts.

Net Neutrality. With that gone, how different will the internet look in 10 years?

Climate change. With Trump's aggressive "fuck the environment, it's all a chinese hoax anyway", how different will the world look compared to someone with a viewpoint that falls in line with what the relevant scientific community tends to think?

Energy. How will supporting coal versus supporting renewables affect the economy over the next 30 years?

Immigration. Trump wants to kick out all the Muslims. How different will America look in 10 years with a ban on people from various countries vs without?

Regardless of whether you support these decisions or not based on whether you think they'll do good or harm, these are the kinds of long term policy and legislative matters that will be sticking around long after some short term market gains.

Finally in regards to my comments about diplomacy:

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/donald-trump-fires-us-ambassadors-no-replacements-a7538256.html
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/nov/08/top-ranks-of-us-diplomacy-depleted-at-dizzying-speed-under-trump

Trump has gone about firing diplomats (with many other resigning) and the critical issue here is that those positions are not being replaced. We're not talking about the kinds of diplomats that change with any administration, but the ones that have been around for 20+ years.

All fair points. But I would argue this is the direction America was heading even had Trump not been in office. It should be pointed out Trump is not the final decision maker in all of these components you pointed out, he has a limited range of decision making power just by the way our democracy is set up. The optics of it may seem severe and magnified under the Trump administration, but political legislation in this country has always generally leaned towards the interests of business than the wil of the people, the Trump presidency didnt change that. If America is or is not great, the Trump presidency certainly didnt do anything to change that is all Im saying
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Kazi1212 posted...

It should be pointed out Trump is not the final decision maker in all of these components you pointed out, he has a limited range of decision making power just by the way our democracy is set up. The optics of it may seem severe and magnified under the Trump administration, but political legislation in this country has always generally leaned towards the interests of business than the wil of the people, the Trump presidency didnt change that. If America is or is not great, the Trump presidency certainly didnt do anything to change that is all Im saying

That argument works in reverse too. Maybe the takeaway here is that thankfully, Trump is not able to do as much damage as he could if he was the only person allowed to involved in making decisions.
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Kazi1212 posted...

But I would argue this is the direction America was heading even had Trump not been in office.

Based on what evidence?
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UnholyMudcrab posted...

Kazi1212 posted...

But I would argue this is the direction America was heading even had Trump not been in office.

Based on what evidence?

Prior historical evidence that political legislation tends to lean towards favoring big businesses, the ruling class what have you
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pinky0926 posted...

Kazi1212 posted...

It should be pointed out Trump is not the final decision maker in all of these components you pointed out, he has a limited range of decision making power just by the way our democracy is set up. The optics of it may seem severe and magnified under the Trump administration, but political legislation in this country has always generally leaned towards the interests of business than the wil of the people, the Trump presidency didnt change that. If America is or is not great, the Trump presidency certainly didnt do anything to change that is all Im saying

That argument works in reverse too. Maybe the takeaway here is that thankfully, Trump is not able to do as much damage as he could if he was the only person allowed to involved in making decisions.

Yea thats basically what Im saying. I just think the cultural capital spent on Trump is wasted at the cost of other issues. Like you think the gay rights movement would have made strides in their movement had there been a president like Trump soaking up all the attention?
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