Poll of the Day > 16 of Trump's Accusers Demand Congressional Investigation

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Doctor Foxx 12/13/17 12:01:57 AM #52:	Smarkil posted... Doctor Foxx posted... Smarkil posted... Nearly 1 in 10-20 is way too fucking high of a number That's in line or lower than the false report rate for other violent crimes such as robbery, assault, or murder. No shit? If someone reported a robbery, assault, or a murder, I'd sure as fuck want proof it happened to. I also would not want an innocent man going to jail for those crimes either. I'm not singling rape out here. It doesn't go accusation to jail. There are quite a few steps in between. --- Never write off the Doctor! <cite>Doctor Foxx posted [p:892117968] in 16 of Trum... [t:76087027]...</cite> <quote><cite>Smarkil posted...</cite> <quote><cite>Doctor Foxx posted...</cite> <quote><cite>Smarkil posted...</cite> <quote>Nearly 1 in 10-20 is way too fucking high of a number </quote> That's in line or lower than the false report rate for other violent crimes such as robbery, assault, or murder.</quote> No shit? If someone reported a robbery, assault, or a murder, I'd sure as fuck want proof it happened to. I also would not want an innocent man going to jail for those crimes either. I'm not singling rape out here.</quote> It doesn't go accusation to jail. There are quite a few steps in between.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Smarkil 12/13/17 12:03:54 AM #53:	Doctor Foxx posted... It doesn't go accusation to jail. There are quite a few steps in between. Yeah, it goes Accusation -> here's proof the crime happened -> investigation -> arrest -> court -> jail Evidently you want it to be Accusation -> ??? -> court -> jail --- "We're not even close" - Romans building Rome at the end of Day 1 <cite>Smarkil posted [p:892118062] in 16 of Trum... [t:76087027]...</cite> <quote><cite>Doctor Foxx posted...</cite> <quote>It doesn't go accusation to jail. There are quite a few steps in between. </quote> Yeah, it goes Accusation -> here's proof the crime happened -> investigation -> arrest -> court -> jail Evidently you want it to be Accusation -> ??? -> court -> jail</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
TheWorstPoster 12/13/17 12:05:17 AM #54:	Smarkil posted... Doctor Foxx posted... It doesn't go accusation to jail. There are quite a few steps in between. Yeah, it goes Accusation -> here's proof the crime happened -> investigation -> arrest -> court -> jail Evidently you want it to be Accusation -> ??? -> court -> jail More like she wants it to be Accusation -> ??? -> jail <cite>TheWorstPoster posted [p:892118147] in 16 of Trum... [t:76087027]...</cite> <quote><cite>Smarkil posted...</cite> <quote><cite>Doctor Foxx posted...</cite> <quote>It doesn't go accusation to jail. There are quite a few steps in between. </quote> Yeah, it goes Accusation -> here's proof the crime happened -> investigation -> arrest -> court -> jail Evidently you want it to be Accusation -> ??? -> court -> jail</quote> More like she wants it to be Accusation -> ??? -> jail</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Doctor Foxx 12/13/17 12:06:28 AM #55:	Smarkil posted... Yeah, it goes Accusation -> here's proof the crime happened -> investigation -> arrest -> court -> jail Evidently you want it to be Accusation -> ??? -> court -> jail Proof the crime happened would be evidence. witness and victim testimony is evidence, enough evidence can support accusations. I'm not suggesting we do without it but guess what? Testimony is a form of proof. --- Never write off the Doctor! <cite>Doctor Foxx posted [p:892118202] in 16 of Trum... [t:76087027]...</cite> <quote><cite>Smarkil posted...</cite> <quote>Yeah, it goes Accusation -> here's proof the crime happened -> investigation -> arrest -> court -> jail Evidently you want it to be Accusation -> ??? -> court -> jail</quote> Proof the crime happened would be evidence. witness and victim testimony is evidence, enough evidence can support accusations. I'm not suggesting we do without it but guess what? Testimony is a form of proof.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Smarkil 12/13/17 12:28:16 AM #56:	Doctor Foxx posted... Proof the crime happened would be evidence. witness and victim testimony is evidence, enough evidence can support accusations. I'm not suggesting we do without it but guess what? Testimony is a form of proof. I'm not going to bother arguing with you anymore. I don't even really need to. Trump is still the president and no one has even bothered to file a sexual assault case against him. Clearly though, you know better than the lawyers of the women involved. I'm not sure why you're not on their legal team. Maybe you should give them a call. --- "We're not even close" - Romans building Rome at the end of Day 1 <cite>Smarkil posted [p:892119324] in 16 of Trum... [t:76087027]...</cite> <quote><cite>Doctor Foxx posted...</cite> <quote>Proof the crime happened would be evidence. witness and victim testimony is evidence, enough evidence can support accusations. I'm not suggesting we do without it but guess what? Testimony is a form of proof. </quote> I'm not going to bother arguing with you anymore. I don't even really need to. Trump is still the president and no one has even bothered to file a sexual assault case against him. Clearly though, you know better than the lawyers of the women involved. I'm not sure why you're not on their legal team. Maybe you should give them a call.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Doctor Foxx 12/13/17 12:33:32 AM #57:	Smarkil posted... Trump is still the president and no one has even bothered to file a sexual assault case against him. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Donald_Trump_sexual_misconduct_allegations He is still the president. Please note the multiple cases filed against him in court well before any election. One person has since filed a defamation suit --- Never write off the Doctor! <cite>Doctor Foxx posted [p:892119571] in 16 of Trum... [t:76087027]...</cite> <quote><cite>Smarkil posted...</cite> <quote>Trump is still the president and no one has even bothered to file a sexual assault case against him. </quote> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Donald_Trump_sexual_misconduct_allegations He is still the president. Please note the multiple cases filed against him in court well before any election. One person has since filed a defamation suit</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Smarkil 12/13/17 2:27:38 AM #58:	Doctor Foxx posted... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Donald_Trump_sexual_misconduct_allegations He is still the president. Please note the multiple cases filed against him in court well before any election. One person has since filed a defamation suit You mean three? One of which by his ex wife which was a divorce. An ex wife who has since recanted her statements on the events of the time. The second one, actually a case of sexual assault, filed in the 97 which was settled out of court. The third one being the defamation case. Only one of them is about his sexual misconduct and it was already settled. Where are the cases from the some 13 other women? --- "We're not even close" - Romans building Rome at the end of Day 1 <cite>Smarkil posted [p:892124037] in 16 of Trum... [t:76087027]...</cite> <quote><cite>Doctor Foxx posted...</cite> <quote>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Donald_Trump_sexual_misconduct_allegations He is still the president. Please note the multiple cases filed against him in court well before any election. One person has since filed a defamation suit </quote> You mean three? One of which by his ex wife which was a divorce. An ex wife who has since recanted her statements on the events of the time. The second one, actually a case of sexual assault, filed in the 97 which was settled out of court. The third one being the defamation case. Only one of them is about his sexual misconduct and it was already settled. Where are the cases from the some 13 other women?</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Doctor Foxx 12/13/17 2:52:27 AM #59:	"no one has even bothered to file a sexual assault case against him" becomes "only 3" then "only 1". 1 is not no one. There's also the case that went to court multiple times regarding his rape of a teen. Not listed there. Ivana may have publicly quieted with her violent rape claims, but they were still made in a sworn deposition. What was described was sexual assault. This was back when marital rape was still legal in many states and treated much more lightly than other sexual assault in the places that had passed laws against it. Ivana herself even said she felt violated but did not seem to grasp the idea that she could be raped by her spouse. Smarkil posted... Where are the cases from the some 13 other women? You think women (or people) file police reports every time they are sexually mistreated? Hahaha. If only people would listen to the allegations, and notice the consistent picture it creates, it might be a worthwhile pursuit. --- Never write off the Doctor! <cite>Doctor Foxx posted [p:892124720] in 16 of Trum... [t:76087027]...</cite> <quote>"no one has even bothered to file a sexual assault case against him" becomes "only 3" then "only 1". 1 is not no one. There's also the case that went to court multiple times regarding his rape of a teen. Not listed there. Ivana may have publicly quieted with her violent rape claims, but they were still made in a sworn deposition. What was described was sexual assault. This was back when marital rape was still legal in many states and treated much more lightly than other sexual assault in the places that had passed laws against it. Ivana herself even said she felt violated but did not seem to grasp the idea that she could be raped by her spouse. <cite>Smarkil posted...</cite> <quote>Where are the cases from the some 13 other women?</quote> You think women (or people) file police reports every time they are sexually mistreated? Hahaha. If only people would listen to the allegations, and notice the consistent picture it creates, it might be a worthwhile pursuit.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
darkknight109 12/14/17 2:00:53 AM #60:	Smarkil posted... An alleged victim's testimony usually is not enough without something to corroborate the commission of a crime. Yes, fair enough, I don't disagree. However, that's not all there were in the case of either Trump or Moore. The victims were able to prove connections to the accused, and offer corroborating details on their stories. Yes, if someone random popped up out of the woodwork and said "Donald Trump molested me", with no evidence that they'd ever met, I wouldn't consider that enough for a more serious response, but the more the accuser can corroborate their stories (and the more holes the accused put in theirs - and both Trump's and Moore's have plenty), the more likely the allegations are credible. Smarkil posted... Corpus delecti is a legal term referring to the need to prove that a crime occurred before someone can be charged with the commission of the crime. It does NOT prove that someone committed a crime, simply that the crime occurred at all. I've skimmed through the individual cases and there's little to make me believe they can prove the crimes even occurred. Personally, I believe they did, but that's not proof. But we're not talking about charges yet - that's later down the road. We're talking about an investigation. We're basically saying "OK, the charges are credible enough to warrant further investigation. That investigation will determine if there's enough evidence for charges and a trial. The trial will determine if the evidence is solid enough for a guilty verdict and punishment." This is a process and we're on Step 1, trying to determine if we need to proceed to Step 2. The issue is that a lot of Trump's defenders are thinking that we're going immediately to the last step, which is not the case at all. Smarkil posted... There really isn't a lot more to crime and criminal law than that. If you can't prove that a crime happened, in the eyes of the law, it didn't. If that were the case, any sexual assault short of outright rape would be virtually impossible to prove unless it was caught on tape. After all, it's a crime that leaves no physical evidence and seldom has other witnesses. It is possible to build a case and secure convictions based on circumstantial evidence alone if that evidence is strong enough to remove reasonable doubt that a crime was committed. Though, again, we're not at that stage yet. "Beyond reasonable doubt" is the last threshold to pass for a conviction; "Is it reasonably possible a crime was committed?" is a high enough standard for an investigation to be carried out. --- Kill 1 man: You are a murderer. Kill 10 men: You are a monster. Kill 100 men: You are a hero. Kill 10,000 men, you are a conqueror! <cite>darkknight109 posted [p:892186274] in 16 of Trum... [t:76087027]...</cite> <quote><cite>Smarkil posted...</cite> <quote>An alleged victim's testimony usually is not enough without something to corroborate the commission of a crime. </quote> Yes, fair enough, I don't disagree. However, that's not all there were in the case of either Trump or Moore. The victims were able to prove connections to the accused, and offer corroborating details on their stories. Yes, if someone random popped up out of the woodwork and said "Donald Trump molested me", with no evidence that they'd ever met, I wouldn't consider that enough for a more serious response, but the more the accuser can corroborate their stories (and the more holes the accused put in theirs - and both Trump's and Moore's have plenty), the more likely the allegations are credible. <cite>Smarkil posted...</cite> <quote>Corpus delecti is a legal term referring to the need to prove that a crime occurred before someone can be charged with the commission of the crime. It does NOT prove that someone committed a crime, simply that the crime occurred at all. I've skimmed through the individual cases and there's little to make me believe they can prove the crimes even occurred. Personally, I believe they did, but that's not proof. </quote> But we're not talking about charges yet - that's later down the road. We're talking about an investigation. We're basically saying "OK, the charges are credible enough to warrant further investigation. That investigation will determine if there's enough evidence for charges and a trial. The trial will determine if the evidence is solid enough for a guilty verdict and punishment." This is a process and we're on Step 1, trying to determine if we need to proceed to Step 2. The issue is that a lot of Trump's defenders are thinking that we're going immediately to the last step, which is not the case at all. <cite>Smarkil posted...</cite> <quote>There really isn't a lot more to crime and criminal law than that. If you can't prove that a crime happened, in the eyes of the law, it didn't.</quote> If that were the case, any sexual assault short of outright rape would be virtually impossible to prove unless it was caught on tape. After all, it's a crime that leaves no physical evidence and seldom has other witnesses. It is possible to build a case and secure convictions based on circumstantial evidence alone if that evidence is strong enough to remove reasonable doubt that a crime was committed. Though, again, we're not at that stage yet. "Beyond reasonable doubt" is the last threshold to pass for a conviction; "Is it reasonably possible a crime was committed?" is a high enough standard for an investigation to be carried out.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
darkknight109 12/14/17 2:00:55 AM #61:	Smarkil posted... To your other point, the man is a public figure. A lot of people have met him. Not good enough. Why do you think Trump was accused of sexual assault, but the last two presidents (notably being one from each party) made it through their terms without any such allegation being levelled at them? Why do the majority of famous people - from athletes to actors to musicians - go through their entire careers without facing any allegations of serious sexual misconduct, while the ones that do get accused are often found to be guilty as fuck? Answer: Because it's rare for an accuser to lie. Yes, even about a famous person. Saying "Well, he's famous and a lot of people hate him, so OF COURSE people are going to accuse him" is simply factually wrong. I can prattle off a long list of people just as famous and unpopular as Trump who never had any sex crime allegations made against them. Smarkil posted... And what should that response be? What do you want Trump or his administration to do? Do we need to send a team of FBI agents to respond to all of these allegations? The burden here should be upon the lawyers of the women they represent. Let them find evidence and submit it to a court. Why the hell would the burden of investigating a crime and collecting evidence be placed on the victim? If you get robbed, do you expect to phone the cops and have them say "Sorry, we don't believe you. Go gather up the evidence for us, then we'll talk." As to what the response should be, an investigation would be prudent at this stage. Again, these allegations are credible enough to move on to that stage. Smarkil posted... Nearly 1 in 10-20 is way too fucking high of a number, and I suspect that number goes up considerably when you have money/are famous. As Foxx already mentioned, that's lower than for other serious crimes. But to the main thrust of your point, why would it go up when the accused is famous? Think about this: for every woman that accuses Trump (or any other famous person) of sex crimes, those articles will come up when someone googles their name. That's going to affect everything from employment chances to promotion opportunities to simply being able to live their lives without a digital horde trying to conduct a social media lynching. Moreover, people with money can also spend that money on lawyers and litigation. Trump is particularly notorious for using his financial power to bury potential opponents in legal bills, ultimately muscling them out of the courtroom if they don't have the finances to match. That doesn't sound like a recipe for success to me. Smarkil posted... Call me crazy, but I'm one of those weirdos that would rather let a bunch of guilty men go free than one innocent man go to prison. Again, you're at the wrong step. No one is talking about putting Trump in prison. Not yet, anyways. The only thing on the table right now is an investigation - that's it. If the investigation doesn't turn up enough evidence for charges, it ends there (at least as far as criminal proceedings go). TheWorstPoster posted... More like she wants it to be Accusation -> ??? -> jail Nice strawman you have there. --- Kill 1 man: You are a murderer. Kill 10 men: You are a monster. Kill 100 men: You are a hero. Kill 10,000 men, you are a conqueror! <cite>darkknight109 posted [p:892186278] in 16 of Trum... [t:76087027]...</cite> <quote><cite>Smarkil posted...</cite> <quote>To your other point, the man is a public figure. A lot of people have met him.</quote> Not good enough. Why do you think Trump was accused of sexual assault, but the last two presidents (notably being one from each party) made it through their terms without any such allegation being levelled at them? Why do the majority of famous people - from athletes to actors to musicians - go through their entire careers without facing any allegations of serious sexual misconduct, while the ones that do get accused are often found to be guilty as fuck? Answer: Because it's rare for an accuser to lie. Yes, even about a famous person. Saying "Well, he's famous and a lot of people hate him, so OF COURSE people are going to accuse him" is simply factually wrong. I can prattle off a long list of people just as famous and unpopular as Trump who never had any sex crime allegations made against them. <cite>Smarkil posted...</cite> <quote>And what should that response be? What do you want Trump or his administration to do? Do we need to send a team of FBI agents to respond to all of these allegations? The burden here should be upon the lawyers of the women they represent. Let them find evidence and submit it to a court. </quote> Why the hell would the burden of investigating a crime and collecting evidence be placed on the victim? If you get robbed, do you expect to phone the cops and have them say "Sorry, we don't believe you. Go gather up the evidence for us, then we'll talk." As to what the response should be, an investigation would be prudent at this stage. Again, these allegations are credible enough to move on to that stage. <cite>Smarkil posted...</cite> <quote>Nearly 1 in 10-20 is way too fucking high of a number, and I suspect that number goes up considerably when you have money/are famous. </quote> As Foxx already mentioned, that's lower than for other serious crimes. But to the main thrust of your point, why would it go up when the accused is famous? Think about this: for every woman that accuses Trump (or any other famous person) of sex crimes, those articles will come up when someone googles their name. That's going to affect everything from employment chances to promotion opportunities to simply being able to live their lives without a digital horde trying to conduct a social media lynching. Moreover, people with money can also spend that money on lawyers and litigation. Trump is particularly notorious for using his financial power to bury potential opponents in legal bills, ultimately muscling them out of the courtroom if they don't have the finances to match. That doesn't sound like a recipe for success to me. <cite>Smarkil posted...</cite> <quote>Call me crazy, but I'm one of those weirdos that would rather let a bunch of guilty men go free than one innocent man go to prison.</quote> Again, you're at the wrong step. No one is talking about putting Trump in prison. Not yet, anyways. The only thing on the table right now is an investigation - that's it. If the investigation doesn't turn up enough evidence for charges, it ends there (at least as far as criminal proceedings go). <cite>TheWorstPoster posted...</cite> <quote>More like she wants it to be Accusation -> ??? -> jail</quote> Nice strawman you have there.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Doctor Foxx 12/18/17 10:50:15 PM #62:	Read this article and was surprised this topic was still around. All about rape kits. That backlog is staggering. https://www.freep.com/story/opinion/columnists/nancy-kaffer/2017/12/17/rape-kit-detroit/953083001/ --- Never write off the Doctor! <cite>Doctor Foxx posted [p:892476841] in 16 of Trum... [t:76087027]...</cite> <quote>Read this article and was surprised this topic was still around. All about rape kits. That backlog is staggering. https://www.freep.com/story/opinion/columnists/nancy-kaffer/2017/12/17/rape-kit-detroit/953083001/</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
ReturnOfFa 12/19/17 1:48:23 AM #63:	I'm on the 'Donald Trump is a dirty rapist' side of the fence, personally. --- girls like my fa <cite>ReturnOfFa posted [p:892484918] in 16 of Trum... [t:76087027]...</cite> <quote>I'm on the 'Donald Trump is a dirty rapist' side of the fence, personally.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
ReturnOfFa 12/19/17 1:55:20 AM #64:	Face it, the American justice system is horse**, and your leader is a big whacko rapist pervert who wiped his butt with a million bucks from daddy I mean, I know the leader of my country is this douchebag https://tinyurl.com/yd9op25p at least he's not an insecure old orange fat rapist with the extreme sports of combovers on his fat bald head lmao --- girls like my fa <cite>ReturnOfFa posted [p:892485139] in 16 of Trum... [t:76087027]...</cite> <quote>Face it, the American justice system is horse**, and your leader is a big whacko rapist pervert who wiped his butt with a million bucks from daddy I mean, I know the leader of my country is this douchebag https://tinyurl.com/yd9op25p at least he's not an insecure old orange fat rapist with the extreme sports of combovers on his fat bald head lmao</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Doctor Foxx 12/19/17 2:09:32 AM #65:	ReturnOfFa posted... I mean, I know the leader of my country is this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tRHNqRyaLcs personally i think of this --- Never write off the Doctor! <cite>Doctor Foxx posted [p:892485567] in 16 of Trum... [t:76087027]...</cite> <quote><cite>ReturnOfFa posted...</cite> <quote>I mean, I know the leader of my country is this </quote> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tRHNqRyaLcs personally i think of this</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
FrndNhbrHdCEman 12/20/17 3:35:34 PM #66:	ReturnOfFa posted... I'm on the 'Donald Trump is a dirty rapist' side of the fence, personally. He totally did it. --- Official nosy neighbor and gossip http://imgur.com/uGKwGsK <cite>FrndNhbrHdCEman posted [p:892579085] in 16 of Trum... [t:76087027]...</cite> <quote><cite>ReturnOfFa posted...</cite> <quote>I'm on the 'Donald Trump is a dirty rapist' side of the fence, personally.</quote> He totally did it.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
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Poll of the Day > 16 of Trump's Accusers Demand Congressional Investigation (+) Yeah! (+)

Poll of the Day > 16 of Trump's Accusers Demand Congressional Investigation