Current Events > How come Al Fraken's accusers are coming out now?

(+) Yeah! (+)

It wasn't significant enough to go tell someone when it happened? But now that all these "brave" women have come forward AFTER someone high profile got busted, suddenly every women has a sex story about a man in power.

If it was bad enough now for Franken (and others), it should have been enough then and they should have said something. Just my opinion.

Asherlee10 posted...

Cocytus posted...

It wasn't significant enough to go tell someone when it happened? But now that all these "brave" women have come forward AFTER someone high profile got busted, suddenly every women has a sex story about a man in power.

I don't know this to be true, but perhaps some of those women didn't want to be the one to bring down Franken which is what part of this movement represents. A lot of the victims have said things like, "I was told not to ruin so-and-so's career over one stupid mistake he did."

That similar thought could have played a role with these women. Franken was supposed to be fighting for minorities and was admired more than a lot of other politicians.

Asherlee10, I don't know a lot about you, but I know you're a girl. And I respect you as a CEgirl. But lemme ask you please, no offense, seriously, but if someone messed with you the wrong way, would you really not tell someone?

I assume the courage of that movement helped them come forward.
---

I don't think they realized butt grabs were sexual assault. It was probably more normal back then before the youth of today got #WOKE and told everyone to stop butt grabbing.

1- millennials
0- creepy old butt grabbers
---

Part of it is that if you don't think that you'll believed, people sharing accounts similar to yours can empower you as it builds a "pattern of behavior".
---

al was going after the "president". this was a way to silence him. pretty obvious

TC, how do you feel about Roy Moore and his accusers?
---

Asherlee10 posted...

Cocytus posted...

Asherlee10 posted...

Cocytus posted...

It wasn't significant enough to go tell someone when it happened? But now that all these "brave" women have come forward AFTER someone high profile got busted, suddenly every women has a sex story about a man in power.

I don't know this to be true, but perhaps some of those women didn't want to be the one to bring down Franken which is what part of this movement represents. A lot of the victims have said things like, "I was told not to ruin so-and-so's career over one stupid mistake he did."

That similar thought could have played a role with these women. Franken was supposed to be fighting for minorities and was admired more than a lot of other politicians.

Asherlee10, I don't know a lot about you, but I know you're a girl. And I respect you as a CEgirl. But lemme ask you please, no offense, seriously, but if someone messed with you the wrong way, would you really not tell someone?

I don't think it's that simple, unfortunately. I've never been a position where I was threatened for exposing the truth about something that happened to me.

I can certainly empathize with those women who were threatened and not sure what to do. I can also understand that it becomes easier to expose the truth if you aren't alone.

Believe it or not I was in a similar situation at work that had to do with an administrator discriminating against me because she wanted me to be Catholic; she thought I was doing a bad job (teaching) and that Catholicism would improve my performance. as long as I listened to her and just nodded my head, my ratings went up. I realized that if I wasn't buying into this Catholic shit then I would be rated accordingly. Well, yeah, I was scared. I knew this was wrong. I knew I was being discriminated against. I never thought it would happen to me. But it was clear, and if I didn't say anything to the higher ups, it would just go on and be miserable. So I told my department head and the principal. Once I told, which took less than a week for me to report, the administrator who was discriminating against me and holding it against me in my performance was no longer allowed to even talk to me. She was assigned other duties. Point is, it was hard, I was scared, but it was the truth, it was happening, and I'd be damned if I wasn't going to tell anyone. So that's been my experience in a similar situation. It was hard and scary to tell, but more than necessary, so I did.

yemmy posted...

TC, how do you feel about Roy Moore and his accusers?

Same way I feel about all these accusers. Yeah, it sounds bad for him. But just because he's Republican doesn't mean it's ok for people to accuse him of something so heinous after a million years has passed and everyone presumes it's true just because it was in the media. He denied it, and no one believes him except his supporters or people that don't care either way.

Because the floodgates have been open.
---

So you're asking why, in a circumstance where big power differentials led to a sexual misconduct case, why the women didn't feel they had enough power at the time to come forward?

I mean, it seems blindingly obvious why there have been so many cases popping up over the past few months. Women who previously felt powerless and even stigmatized now feel empowered to come forward. And truth be told, we do a really shitty job at considering the ethics of sexual behavior in the presence of power differentials. So this is nothing but good for society, so that we're forced to think about it more critically.
---

COVxy posted...

So you're asking why, in a circumstance where big power differentials led to a sexual misconduct case, why the women didn't feel they had enough power at the time to come forward?

I mean, it seems blindingly obvious why there have been so many cases popping up over the past few months. Women who previously felt powerless and even stigmatized now feel empowered to come forward. And truth be told, we do a really shitty job at considering the ethics of sexual behavior in the presence of power differentials. So this is nothing but good for society, so that we're forced to think about it more critically.

I'm simply saying if they can speak out now, why could they not speak then. Someone has to make that first leap, someone did, now these women feel safe coming forward. Maybe if they spoke up sooner, like when it happened, their testimony could have stopped the wave of women we're seeing coming forward now. You have to be brave, sure. So be brave when it happens and you really feel assaulted, not when hundreds of other women say they been molested too then you say oh well it happened to me too, thank God you told your story or I never would have got justice. They could have got justice when it happened. They didn't even try though. Simply put, again, you could have said something before, so why didn't you say something then, even though it would have been difficult...

Wolf_J_Flywheel posted...

I assume the courage of that movement helped them come forward.

it's been like this for some time. started with just 1 accusation began flooding in with more.
---

BTW, this is not an unreasonable question to ask. It's actually quite logical. That's why there's such a thing as the statute of limitations.

Asherlee10 posted...

I can also understand that it becomes easier to expose the truth if you aren't alone.

From what I've seen, this seems to be the main reason. Solidarity is a powerful thing. It makes you feel less embarrassed to know you weren't the only one, it makes you feel safer when you see other people reporting it and their lives aren't over.
---

Asherlee10 posted...

- It's easier to speak out when others already have
- Not everyone has the same level of courage
- Fear is a huge motivator of actions and inactions

I guess. Best explanation I've heard anyway. 'Cause I don't understand if something happens to you why you don't speak out. I do, but I don't.

Asherlee10 posted...

Cocytus posted...

Asherlee10 posted...

- It's easier to speak out when others already have
- Not everyone has the same level of courage
- Fear is a huge motivator of actions and inactions

I guess. Best explanation I've heard anyway. 'Cause I don't understand if something happens to you why you don't speak out. I do, but I don't.

I'm not really sure how else to put it to you, but not everyone has the same level of bravery or courage to take action.

Furthermore, people have received negative consequences for exposing truths like this so that just furthers the fear.

I said I accept that. I'm not rejecting it. But it bugs me a little that no one is talking about the other, reasonable point of view. Perhaps these perspectives coexist. I mean, if your house gets robbed, are you going to wait for 10 more people in your neighborhood to get robbed before you call the cops?

Asherlee10 posted...

Cocytus posted...

Asherlee10 posted...

Cocytus posted...

Asherlee10 posted...

- It's easier to speak out when others already have
- Not everyone has the same level of courage
- Fear is a huge motivator of actions and inactions

I guess. Best explanation I've heard anyway. 'Cause I don't understand if something happens to you why you don't speak out. I do, but I don't.

I'm not really sure how else to put it to you, but not everyone has the same level of bravery or courage to take action.

Furthermore, people have received negative consequences for exposing truths like this so that just furthers the fear.

I said I accept that. I'm not rejecting it. But it bugs me a little that no one is talking about the other, reasonable point of view. Perhaps these perspectives coexist. I mean, if your house gets robbed, are you going to wait for 10 more people in your neighborhood to get robbed before you call the cops?

What is the 'other reasonable point of view' you are referencing?

Your house getting robbed is no where near the same things as getting sexually assaulted and not telling someone about it immediately. You aren't at risk for losing your job or being shunned because you reported a robbery.

I'm not trying to be snarky, but are you purposely being obtuse?

No, again, I'm simply saying, to me, it is a bit disingenuous to come forward with allegations of a crime decades after the fact. I don't know why you find this concept hard to understand. Again, why is their such a thing in law as the statute of limitations?

This is some really shitty bait.
---

Asherlee10 posted...

Cocytus posted...

Asherlee10 posted...

Cocytus posted...

Asherlee10 posted...

Cocytus posted...

Asherlee10 posted...

- It's easier to speak out when others already have
- Not everyone has the same level of courage
- Fear is a huge motivator of actions and inactions

I guess. Best explanation I've heard anyway. 'Cause I don't understand if something happens to you why you don't speak out. I do, but I don't.

I'm not really sure how else to put it to you, but not everyone has the same level of bravery or courage to take action.

Furthermore, people have received negative consequences for exposing truths like this so that just furthers the fear.

I said I accept that. I'm not rejecting it. But it bugs me a little that no one is talking about the other, reasonable point of view. Perhaps these perspectives coexist. I mean, if your house gets robbed, are you going to wait for 10 more people in your neighborhood to get robbed before you call the cops?

What is the 'other reasonable point of view' you are referencing?

Your house getting robbed is no where near the same things as getting sexually assaulted and not telling someone about it immediately. You aren't at risk for losing your job or being shunned because you reported a robbery.

I'm not trying to be snarky, but are you purposely being obtuse?

No, again, I'm simply saying, to me, it is a bit disingenuous to come forward with allegations of a crime decades after the fact. I don't know why you find this concept hard to understand. Again, why is their such a thing in law as the statute of limitations?

Are you kidding?

Just never mind. You're right. Different degrees of courage. Some people aren't as brave as others. End of story.

BLAKUboy posted...

This is some really shitty bait.

Whatever that means.