Current Events > Luxottica is a great example of what happens when you leave it to market forces

(+) Yeah! (+)

One company, owning 80% of the glasses market, from one end of production to the other.

They own:
Alain Mikli
Arnette
Eye Safety Systems (ESS)
Oakley
Oliver Peoples
Persol
Ray-Ban
Sferoflex
Vogue Eyewear
Make under License:
Giorgio Armani
Brooks Brothers
Bulgari
Burberry
Chanel
Coach
Dolce & Gabbana
DKNY
Michael Kors
Miu Miu
Polo Ralph Lauren
Paul Smith Spectacles
Prada
Ralph Lauren
Starck Eyes
Tiffany & Co.
Tory Burch
Valentino[29]
Versace
and own the sales chains:
Sunglass Hut International
Apex by Sunglass Hut
LensCrafters
Pearle Vision
Sears Optical
Target Optical
OPSM
ILORI
EyeMed Vision Care
Optical Shop of Aspen
Laubman & Pank
GMO
Oliver Peoples
Alain Mikli
Oakley
David Clulow
Glasses.com
Econpticas
Salmoiraghi e Vigan

That's all one company.

What happens when a new company tries to enter the market? Luxotica either buys them out or refuses to let them anywhere near any stores, almost all of which they own.

That's why your 5 gram machine fabricated plastic Ray Bans cost $300.
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So you want to punish success?!
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Squall28 posted...

So you want to punish success?!

Right now success is punishing you.
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Then make a better product
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MakoReizei posted...

Then make a better product

What does this even mean, lol
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pinky0926 posted...

MakoReizei posted...

Then make a better product

What does this even mean, lol

Make 5 gram machine fabricated plastic glasses and charge $30 and refuse to be bought out.
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s0nicfan posted...

pinky0926 posted...

MakoReizei posted...

Then make a better product

What does this even mean, lol

Make 5 gram machine fabricated plastic glasses and charge $30 and refuse to be bought out.

Ok and where will you sell them when Luxottica owns all the shops where glasses are sold

This literally happened to Oakley, by the way. A great product that was forced into bankruptcy because they were forced out of every retailer by Luxottica, before being bought out by Luxottica

You say this like it's profound, like brands aren't trying to get into the market right now and upturn the scales despite the unfair competition

The only competitor to Luxoticca right now is online stores like Warby Parker, but they're not even in the same ballpark.
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pinky0926 posted...

s0nicfan posted...

pinky0926 posted...

MakoReizei posted...

Then make a better product

What does this even mean, lol

Make 5 gram machine fabricated plastic glasses and charge $30 and refuse to be bought out.

Ok and where will you sell them when Luxottica owns all the shops where glasses are sold

This literally happened to Oakley, by the way. A great product that was forced into bankruptcy because they were forced out of every retailer by Luxottica, before being bought out by Luxottica

Brick and Mortar is a dated business model. Sell them online and find a way to make the process painless for consumers.
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pinky0926 posted...

Squall28 posted...

So you want to punish success?!

Right now success is punishing you.

But it's punishing liberals too. MUHAHAHA
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s0nicfan posted...

Brick and Mortar is a dated business model. Sell them online and find a way to make the process painless for consumers.

As above, Warby Parker is doing ok, but we can expect Luxottica to move into and dominate the online space as well. And glasses are not easy to buy online when you don't know how they look on your face, although modelling software is becoming more sophisticated slowly.
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Military gave me laser surgery so screw then
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And The Great Leap Forward is what happens when you let the government meddle in business amirite?

Also you can order sunglasses and return them for free through some companies so there is opportunity for the online marketplace as long as you arent in a rush
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pinky0926 posted...

s0nicfan posted...

Brick and Mortar is a dated business model. Sell them online and find a way to make the process painless for consumers.

As above, Warby Parker is doing ok, but we can expect Luxottica to move into and dominate the online space as well. And glasses are not easy to buy online when you don't know how they look on your face, although modelling software is becoming more sophisticated slowly.

My point is there's space in the market for innovation, and small companies will always be more agile than larger ones. In 10 seconds I was able to identify a way for someone to compete in the current market, imagine what someone familiar with the product could do. Monopolies are bad, but there's a difference between a true monopoly and a market where there are ways to compete but nobody bothers.
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s0nicfan posted...

small companies will always be more agile than larger ones. In 10 seconds I was able to identify a way for someone to compete in the current market

lol
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s0nicfan posted...

My point is there's space in the market for innovation, and small companies will always be more agile than larger ones. In 10 seconds I was able to identify a way for someone to compete in the current market, imagine what someone familiar with the product could do. Monopolies are bad, but there's a difference between a true monopoly and a market where there are ways to compete but nobody bothers.

Pointing out a potential inroad for some competition in a new market is not an argument for why it's fine for a company to have so much buying power across the entire production line that it's near impossible for competition to materialise at any point in the established market from manufacture to customer to insurance.

Luxottica demonstrates regularly what being 80% of the market means. They're a mafia at this point. A very powerful one.
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pinky0926 posted...

What happens when a new company tries to enter the market? Luxotica either buys them out or refuses to let them anywhere near any stores, almost all of which they own.

The spinning rack of $5 shades in any given Walmart or most gas stations disagree.

I always laugh when people say monopolies don't exist. Made all the more funny when they reason you can just bootstrap your company online so it's a fair market.
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MakoReizei posted...

Then make a better product

oh, is that ALL you need to do? well, shucks, that's really simple, I can't believe nobody thought of this before you and entered the market to make a killing.

its funny how many free market proponents respond with "just make a new company and compete" like it's just that simple, especially when one company has a complete stranglehold on the market like OP demonstrates.
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Zeeak4444 posted...

I always laugh when people say monopolies don't exist. Made all the more funny when they reason you can just bootstrap your company online so it's a fair market.

Giant_Aspirin posted...

MakoReizei posted...

Then make a better product

oh, is that ALL you need to do? well, shucks, that's really simple, I can't believe nobody thought of this before you and entered the market to make a killing.

its funny how many free market proponents respond with "just make a new company and compete" like it's just that simple, especially when one company has a complete stranglehold on the market like OP demonstrates.

The big dream in the modern era is to compete just enough to get bought out by whatever monopoly for fucktons of money.
Just go look at all the garage companies devoured by Disney, Google, and EA.

Questionmarktarius posted...

Zeeak4444 posted...

I always laugh when people say monopolies don't exist. Made all the more funny when they reason you can just bootstrap your company online so it's a fair market.

Giant_Aspirin posted...

MakoReizei posted...

Then make a better product

oh, is that ALL you need to do? well, shucks, that's really simple, I can't believe nobody thought of this before you and entered the market to make a killing.

its funny how many free market proponents respond with "just make a new company and compete" like it's just that simple, especially when one company has a complete stranglehold on the market like OP demonstrates.

The big dream in the modern era is to compete just enough to get bought out by whatever monopoly for fucktons of money.
Just go look at all the garage companies devoured by Disney, Google, and EA.

How's any of that change my post?
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Zeeak4444 posted...

How's any of that change my post?

The very reason to bootstrap online is to get bought out by Google or Amazon.

Giant_Aspirin posted...

its funny how many free market proponents respond with "just make a new company and compete" like it's just that simple, especially when one company has a complete stranglehold on the market like OP demonstrates.

in a libertarian presidential primary debate last year, when asked about how they would choose their cabinets and staff, one of the candidates responded that he would "let the market handle it"
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Giant_Aspirin posted...

MakoReizei posted...

Then make a better product

oh, is that ALL you need to do? well, shucks, that's really simple, I can't believe nobody thought of this before you and entered the market to make a killing.

its funny how many free market proponents respond with "just make a new company and compete" like it's just that simple, especially when one company has a complete stranglehold on the market like OP demonstrates.

I dunno I'm trying to think of a worthy analogy for this situation.

Ok say you don't want to drive a car to work, but General Motors doesn't like that. So they ban you from using the trains or buses (assume here they own those too), get you blacklisted from uber, remove all the cycle routes and make sure it's illegal to live within 30 kms of your workplace.

These are the guys that turn up and say "why don't you just walk to work, you have legs. See simple"
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Questionmarktarius posted...

The big dream in the modern era is to compete just enough to get bought out by whatever monopoly for fucktons of money.
Just go look at Disney, Google, and EA.

you seem to be comically missing the point again
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The other thing people come up with is like "well a lot of technology goes into sunglasses, so it's understandable that Ray Bans would be that price".

Jfc you can buy a nintendo switch for that price. You wanna tell me that little allow hinge and the lenses on a pair of sunglasses is equal in technological value, lol
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averagejoel posted...

Questionmarktarius posted...

The big dream in the modern era is to compete just enough to get bought out by whatever monopoly for fucktons of money.
Just go look at Disney, Google, and EA.

you seem to be comically missing the point again

What point?
That cheap sunglasses isn't just a ZZ Top song?

https://www.sunglasswarehouse.com/
https://www.bleudame.com/sunglasses
http://www.zumiez.com/accessories/sunglasses/cheap-sunglasses.html
https://www.amazon.com/Mens-Sunglasses/b?node=2474995011
https://ragstock.com/shop/product-category/accessories/cheap-sunglasses/

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cHkaIHRK35g

Why are people okay with monopolies? Are they unaware competition is a key component of healthy capitalism?
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When does a company become a monopoly based on law?
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emblem boy posted...

When does a company become a monopoly based on law?

Your local water, gas, and electricity. Possibly also garbage, cable, and internet.

emblem boy posted...

When does a company become a monopoly based on law?

Apparently:

Monopoly is a control or advantage obtained by one entity over the commercial market in a specific area. Monopolization is an offense under federal anti trust law. The two elements of monopolization are (1) the power to fix prices and exclude competitors within the relevant market. (2) the willful acquisition or maintenance of that power as distinguished from growth or development as a consequence of a superior product, business acumen or historical accident.

A market condition in which there is only one seller and one buyer is called a bilateral monopoly. A situation where one buyer controls the market is called monopsony.
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If making a better product was all that was needed we would be using Windows Phones right now

emblem boy posted...

When does a company become a monopoly based on law?

The Sherman Antitrust makes monopoly power illegal. Under the Sherman Act monopoly power is considered the ability of a business to control a price within its relevant product market or its geographic market or to exclude a competitor from doing business within its relevant product market or geographic market
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HydraSlayer82 posted...

Why are people okay with monopolies? Are they unaware competition is a key component of healthy capitalism?

it's almost as though capitalism sows the seeds of its own destruction
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IfGodCouldDie posted...

emblem boy posted...

When does a company become a monopoly based on law?

The Sherman Antitrust makes monopoly power illegal. Under the Sherman Act monopoly power is considered the ability of a business to control a price within its relevant product market or its geographic market or to exclude a competitor from doing business within its relevant product market or geographic market

That's kinda what I was getting at. Aren't there anti trust laws already, or does that only apply to certain businesses? Or does it not apply yet for this company? Or is the govt fucking up and not doing something when they're supposed to?
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emblem boy posted...

IfGodCouldDie posted...

emblem boy posted...

When does a company become a monopoly based on law?

The Sherman Antitrust makes monopoly power illegal. Under the Sherman Act monopoly power is considered the ability of a business to control a price within its relevant product market or its geographic market or to exclude a competitor from doing business within its relevant product market or geographic market

That's kinda what I was getting at. Aren't there anti trust laws already, or does that only apply to certain businesses? Or does it not apply yet for this company? Or is the govt fucking up and not doing something when they're supposed to?

To be honest, I don't know I just googled that and copy pasted. I am not all that well versed in law, let alone business law. But that definition sounds like most telecomunications companies are illegal monopolies as well.
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averagejoel posted...

it's almost as though capitalism sows the seeds of its own destruction

Every form of society decays into feudalism. Every one.

averagejoel posted...

HydraSlayer82 posted...

Why are people okay with monopolies? Are they unaware competition is a key component of healthy capitalism?

it's almost as though capitalism sows the seeds of its own destruction

Thats funny considering the government decided to sell itself out. Surely the government needs even more control.
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Questionmarktarius posted...

averagejoel posted...

it's almost as though capitalism sows the seeds of its own destruction

Every form of society decays into feudalism. Every one.

This sadly sounds about right. Kill the bourgeoisie only to be replaced by another class of bourgeoisie of a different name. Humans are hierarchical period, for better or worse.
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pinky0926 posted...

Giant_Aspirin posted...

MakoReizei posted...

Then make a better product

oh, is that ALL you need to do? well, shucks, that's really simple, I can't believe nobody thought of this before you and entered the market to make a killing.

its funny how many free market proponents respond with "just make a new company and compete" like it's just that simple, especially when one company has a complete stranglehold on the market like OP demonstrates.

I dunno I'm trying to think of a worthy analogy for this situation.

Ok say you don't want to drive a car to work, but General Motors doesn't like that. So they ban you from using the trains or buses (assume here they own those too), get you blacklisted from uber, remove all the cycle routes and make sure it's illegal to live within 30 kms of your workplace.

These are the guys that turn up and say "why don't you just walk to work, you have legs. See simple"

The difference is building your own car to compete is very different than, as you put it, creating your own "5 gram machine fabricated plastic"
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s0nicfan posted...

The difference is building your own car to compete is very different than, as you put it, creating your own "5 gram machine fabricated plastic"

How easy and cheap do you think it is to design, manufacture, ship and retail a designer product?
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Socialists see this opportunity and complain and whine.

Capitalists see this opportunity and make a better product and get rich.

Ready to get embarrassed again pinky?

https://www.fool.com/investing/2016/07/10/could-warby-parker-be-worth-more-than-luxottica-on.aspx

A start-up that literally is doing exactly what I and other capitalists have said is now worth over 1.2 billion and is poised to be worth more than Luxottica. While you and other socialists are complaining and bitching and moaning about how unfair life is and how the market is not being fair to new competitors, someone went and started a brand new company in the space and in the course of just a few years they've grown rapidly.
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HydraSlayer82 posted...

Questionmarktarius posted...

averagejoel posted...

it's almost as though capitalism sows the seeds of its own destruction

Every form of society decays into feudalism. Every one.

This sadly sounds about right. Kill the bourgeoisie only to be replaced by another class of bourgeoisie of a different name. Humans are hierarchical period, for better or worse.

Meet the new boss. Same as the old boss.

I'm literally laughing my ass off at all the socialist and communist clowns who were shitposting about Luxottica without even knowing about Warby Parker and other companies like it.

"WHAAAAAAAA it's too hard for new businesses to enter the market and compete"

"WHAAAAAAAA the big company is killing competition"

*Warbey Parker gets to over $1.2 billion in just a few years after starting*

lmfao
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pinky0926 posted...

s0nicfan posted...

The difference is building your own car to compete is very different than, as you put it, creating your own "5 gram machine fabricated plastic"

How easy and cheap do you think it is to design, manufacture, ship and retail a designer product?

Doesn't seem to be too difficult:

Questionmarktarius posted...

https://www.sunglasswarehouse.com/
https://www.bleudame.com/sunglasses
http://www.zumiez.com/accessories/sunglasses/cheap-sunglasses.html
https://www.amazon.com/Mens-Sunglasses/b?node=2474995011
https://ragstock.com/shop/product-category/accessories/cheap-sunglasses/

FLUFFYGERM posted...

Socialists see this opportunity and complain and whine.

Capitalists see this opportunity and make a better product and get rich.

Ready to get embarrassed again pinky?

https://www.fool.com/investing/2016/07/10/could-warby-parker-be-worth-more-than-luxottica-on.aspx

A start-up that literally is doing exactly what I and other capitalists have said is now worth over 1.2 billion and is poised to be worth more than Luxottica. While you and other socialists are complaining and bitching and moaning about how unfair life is and how the market is not being fair to new competitors, someone went and started a brand new company in the space and in the course of just a few years they've grown rapidly.

"poised to be worth more than luxottica"

What an incredible projection from "could it be worth more than luxottica one day" the article suggests. They're currently tiny in comparison.

You act like I don't know about this company despite already mentioning them in this topic several times, and also owning some Warby Parker glasses.

The point isn't that competition is literally impossible in all cases of a monopoly exist, but that when a monopoly exists it has power to crush competition unfairly, which only hurts the consumer.
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pinky0926 posted...

FLUFFYGERM posted...

Socialists see this opportunity and complain and whine.

Capitalists see this opportunity and make a better product and get rich.

Ready to get embarrassed again pinky?

https://www.fool.com/investing/2016/07/10/could-warby-parker-be-worth-more-than-luxottica-on.aspx

A start-up that literally is doing exactly what I and other capitalists have said is now worth over 1.2 billion and is poised to be worth more than Luxottica. While you and other socialists are complaining and bitching and moaning about how unfair life is and how the market is not being fair to new competitors, someone went and started a brand new company in the space and in the course of just a few years they've grown rapidly.

"poised to be worth more than luxottica"

What an incredible projection from "could it be worth more than luxottica one day" the article suggests. They're currently tiny in comparison.

You act like I don't know about this company despite already mentioning them in this topic several times, and also owning some Warby Parker glasses.

The point isn't that competition is literally impossible in all cases of a monopoly exist, but that when a monopoly exists it has power to crush competition unfairly, which only hurts the consumer.

Luxxotica is a big company but they are not blocking competition. If anything, this is Europe's problem to deal with since Luxxotica is an Italian company. If the EU is so concerned with them being a monopoly, they should intervene and prevent any more mergers or acquisitions.

But Warby Parker is clear evidence that competition in the space is alive and heathy. Getting to Unicorn Valuation as a very young start-up is super impressive and indicates that they have the potential to grow to 10 billion or more in no time at all. Basically your shitposting about the free market was uninformed lmao
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emblem boy posted...

IfGodCouldDie posted...

emblem boy posted...

When does a company become a monopoly based on law?

The Sherman Antitrust makes monopoly power illegal. Under the Sherman Act monopoly power is considered the ability of a business to control a price within its relevant product market or its geographic market or to exclude a competitor from doing business within its relevant product market or geographic market

That's kinda what I was getting at. Aren't there anti trust laws already, or does that only apply to certain businesses? Or does it not apply yet for this company? Or is the govt fucking up and not doing something when they're supposed to?

Its the last thing. The failure is on the government by not enforcing. Its a shame really.
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FLUFFYGERM posted...

Luxxotica is a big company but they are not blocking competition. If anything, this is Europe's problem to deal with since Luxxotica is an Italian company. If the EU is so concerned with them being a monopoly, they should intervene and prevent any more mergers or acquisitions.

What a joke that is. You did know about what happened to Oakley right? Who benefited from Oakley being sent into bankruptcy then bought out and having its prices jacked up several fold? And how is that not blocking competition?

This happened back in 2007. Look how long it took for a competitor to even show any presence at all. Market forces don't get corrected overnight, even if at all.

But Warby Parker is clear evidence that competition in the space is alive and heathy. Getting to Unicorn Valuation as a very young start-up is super impressive and indicates that they have the potential to grow to 10 billion or more in no time at all. Basically your shitposting about the free market was uninformed lmao

Warby Parker is evidence that Luxottica doesn't own literally everything in the entire glasses market globally. If you think that counts as a destruction of the argument that monopolies are dangerous and harmful you missed the point entirely.
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FLUFFYGERM posted...

Getting to Unicorn Valuation as a very young start-up is super impressive and indicates that they have the potential to grow to 10 billion or more in no time at all.

this is not true
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pinky0926 posted...

FLUFFYGERM posted...

Luxxotica is a big company but they are not blocking competition. If anything, this is Europe's problem to deal with since Luxxotica is an Italian company. If the EU is so concerned with them being a monopoly, they should intervene and prevent any more mergers or acquisitions.

What a joke that is. You did know about what happened to Oakley right? Who benefited from Oakley being sent into bankruptcy then bought out and having its prices jacked up several fold?

This happened back in 2007. Look how long it took for a competitor to even show any presence at all. Market forces don't get corrected overnight, even if at all.

But Warby Parker is clear evidence that competition in the space is alive and heathy. Getting to Unicorn Valuation as a very young start-up is super impressive and indicates that they have the potential to grow to 10 billion or more in no time at all. Basically your shitposting about the free market was uninformed lmao

Warby Parker is evidence that Luxottica doesn't own literally everything in the entire glasses market globally. If you think that counts as a destruction of the argument that monopolies are dangerous and harmful you missed the point entirely

Of course he did. When you said 80% that clearly meant 100% of the market so you lose.
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