Poll of the Day > Trump brings up 'Pocahontas' at event honoring Navajo code talkers.

(+) Yeah! (+)

Yellow posted...

Yes, slurs are pretty racist. Pocahantus used in that context is a slur.

Pocahontas is not a racial slur, no matter how much you want it to be.

Yellow posted...

As if it even matters.

of course not, only your anger does lulz

Yellow posted...

Oh so calling a room full of people drunks and wagon burners is racist just because they happen to be Native American? What is this, 2019?

With the stereotypes of drunken Indians and the fact that wagon burner is a racial slur, well yeah, but you're just running off emotions now.
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darcandkharg31 posted...

Yellow posted...

Yes, slurs are pretty racist. Pocahantus used in that context is a slur.

Pocahontas is not a racial slur, no matter how much you want it to be.

It is in the right context. Now backtrack out of that and say it is sometimes, like how calling random Mexicans Pedro is racist, but the context isn't right like you have been doing this whole time. Because Elizabeth Warren isn't a real native.

Now just keep switching between those two arguing points and we can go back and forth all night.

darcandkharg31 posted...

you're just running off emotions now.

I've got a slight buzz and I'm bored.
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Yellow posted...

It is in the right context. Now backtrack out of that and say it is sometimes, like how calling random Mexicans Pedro is racist, but the context isn't right like you have been doing this whole time. Because Elizabeth Warren isn't a real native.

Now just keep switching between those two arguing points and we can go back and forth all night.

Ah yes, I made a mistake, you're right, Pocahontas could be a racist when used in the right context, my bad. Pocahontas in Warren case was not a slur, it was mocking her claim of being native, not using it because she is native(which I have to say again she is not in case you forgot)
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darcandkharg31 posted...

darkknight109 posted...

Never said it was. I was simply pointing out that just because you don't think it's offensive doesn't mean it isn't offensive period.

It's all kinds of cute you think you know whether or not I'm being offended "on behalf of" someone. I mean, do you know what race I am? What my heritage is?

More to the point, one person does not speak on behalf of everyone, and that includes the guy that says "I'm part of this minority, and I'm not offended, so it must be okay."
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darkknight109 posted...

I mean, do you know what race I am? What my heritage is?

Doesn't matter to me.

darkknight109 posted...

More to the point, one person does not speak on behalf of everyone, and that includes the guy that says "I'm part of this minority, and I'm not offended, so it must be okay."

You say it's offensive, I explain my piece on why it's not offensive, you say "Well, it doesn't matter what you say, it's offensive" basically you just keep saying it's offensive.
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darcandkharg31 posted...

You say it's offensive, I explain my piece on why it's not offensive, you say "Well, it doesn't matter what you say, it's offensive" basically you just keep saying it's offensive.

Two Native American groups that I'm aware of (and likely more that I'm not) have said it's offensive.

Their word trumps yours (and mine, for that matter) on this.
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darcandkharg31 posted...

Pocahontas is not a racial slur, no matter how much you want it to be.

maybe not but it's still a dumbass thing to say and certainly speaks to trump's inclinations to racial insensitivity

do keep in mind we are talking about the president of the united states, not a shitpost online or something
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http://www.ncai.org/news/articles/2017/05/03/ncai-condemns-president-trump-s-derogatory-use-of-pocahontas-name-in-political-attack

NCAI is a bi-partisan organization that works equitably with both sides of the political aisle, and it is not our common practice to comment on the partisan name calling that has come to dominate American politics, said NCAI Executive Director Jacqueline Pata. But we cannot and will not stand silent when our Native ancestors, cultures, and histories are used in a derogatory manner for political gain.

Pocahontas was a real person who to this day holds significant value to her family and her tribe, the Pamunkey Indian Tribe in Virginia. The Pamunkey struck a treaty with the British Crown in the 1600s, and just last year were officially recognized as a federally recognized tribe by the U.S. government after a decades-long struggle. The name of Pocahontas should not be used as a slur, and it is inappropriate for anyone to use her name in a disparaging manner.

With the election long over, we hoped that President Trump would refrain from using this name as a pejorative term and other such terms that insult Native peoples and degrade their cultures in order to score political points, said NCAI President Brian Cladoosby. We hope that this was but a momentary slip-up, and that it is not indicative of how this Administration intends to treat and work with Indian Country moving forward.

Fucking white people love claiming they got some Native American in them way back. It's all bullshit.
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Zareth posted...

Fucking white people love claiming they got some Native American in them way back. It's all bullshit.

I have some Native American in me sometimes ;)
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Jen0125 posted...

Zareth posted...

Fucking white people love claiming they got some Native American in them way back. It's all bullshit.

I have some Native American in me sometimes ;)

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FrndNhbrHdCEman posted...

Jen0125 posted...

Zareth posted...

Fucking white people love claiming they got some Native American in them way back. It's all bullshit.

I have some Native American in me sometimes ;)

:D
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Yellow posted...

Because Elizabeth Warren isn't a real native.

Because she really isn't.

Even the New England Historic Genealogical Society studied her case, and concluded that she had no Native American ancestry.

TheWorstPoster posted...

Yellow posted...

Because Elizabeth Warren isn't a real native.

Because she really isn't.

Even the New England Historic Genealogical Society studied her case, and concluded that she had no Native American ancestry.

I don't trust ya. Doubt anyone does ya creeper.
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FrndNhbrHdCEman posted...

TheWorstPoster posted...

Yellow posted...

Because Elizabeth Warren isn't a real native.

Because she really isn't.

Even the New England Historic Genealogical Society studied her case, and concluded that she had no Native American ancestry.

I don't trust ya. Doubt anyone does ya creeper.

http://www.bostonherald.com/news_opinion/local_politics/2012/05/genealogical_society_no_proof_warren%E2%80%99s_cherokee_heritage_found

I'm not going to read through all the librul tears, but I'm assuming I'm still waiting on an actual reason.
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TheWorstPoster posted...

FrndNhbrHdCEman posted...

TheWorstPoster posted...

Yellow posted...

Because Elizabeth Warren isn't a real native.

Because she really isn't.

Even the New England Historic Genealogical Society studied her case, and concluded that she had no Native American ancestry.

I don't trust ya. Doubt anyone does ya creeper.

http://www.bostonherald.com/news_opinion/local_politics/2012/05/genealogical_society_no_proof_warren%E2%80%99s_cherokee_heritage_found

Naw thanks.
https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/boston-herald/
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SmokeMassTree posted...

I'm not going to read through all the librul tears, but I'm assuming I'm still waiting on an actual reason.

It's because Trump, while commending the World War 2 Navajo Code Talkers, insulted Elizabeth Warren (who lied about her ancestry to get into a teaching position at Harvard, when there was a "diversity quota" to to be met by minorities). The code talkers, while confused by Trump's remarks, and may not even be aware of who Warren was, were not offended, and even stated that they were ordered to say "Geronimo" when jumping out of planes.

This is a fake issue.

TheWorstPoster posted...

SmokeMassTree posted...

I'm not going to read through all the librul tears, but I'm assuming I'm still waiting on an actual reason.

It's because Trump, while commending the World War 2 Navajo Code Talkers, insulted Elizabeth Warren (who lied about her ancestry to get into a teaching position at Harvard, when there was a "diversity quota" to to be met by minorities). The code talkers, while confused by Trump's remarks, and may not even be aware of who Warren was, were not offended, and even stated that they were ordered to say "Geronimo" when jumping out of planes.

This is a fake issue.

Like you harassing females here?
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darkknight109 posted...

Two Native American groups that I'm aware of (and likely more that I'm not) have said it's offensive.

Their word trumps yours (and mine, for that matter) on this.

Bunch of politicians, they live for this kinda stuff. But alas, it will not matter anymore, it'll be like the Redskin thing , no one really cared but enough public swaying will in fact make it offensive.
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https://web.archive.org/web/20150702113323/http://www.bostonglobe.com/news/nation/2012/05/14/for-record/20uQnW6yCV3uOL2bRDfseK/story.html?camp=pm

TheWorstPoster posted...

https://web.archive.org/web/20150702113323/http://www.bostonglobe.com/news/nation/2012/05/14/for-record/20uQnW6yCV3uOL2bRDfseK/story.html?camp=pm

Enough postin newspapers nobody's heard of. We get ya don't understand politics. Ffs you're on public assistance voting for guys who want to take it away.
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FrndNhbrHdCEman posted...

Enough postin newspapers nobody's heard of

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Boston_Globe

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_newspapers_in_the_United_States

TheWorstPoster posted...

FrndNhbrHdCEman posted...

Enough postin newspapers nobody's heard of

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Boston_Globe

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_newspapers_in_the_United_States

FrndNhbrHdCEman posted...

Naw thanks.
https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/boston-herald/

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darkknight109 posted...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blackface

From reading that article it is about portraying a black person in performance art. The problem with it was the reliance on stereotypes over original characters.

Here's one for you:
https://www.damninteresting.com/the-baader-meinhof-phenomenon/

Baader-Meinhof is the phenomenon where one stumbles upon some obscure piece of informationoften an unfamiliar word or nameand soon afterwards encounters the same subject again, often repeatedly.

I am unfamiliar with Blackface as it seems to have only become an issue recently. I can't think of a genuine example of it occurring in entertainment for the past 30 years. Yet it seems to keep popping up in other places and getting disproportionate reactions. I don't see a problem with it. The only conclusion I can reach is that there is a modern fallacy to conflate a character as representing everyone belonging to the race that character is associated with (ie people being racist).
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Offensive? Nah. I thought it was egotistical and out of place.

Zareth posted...

Fucking white people love claiming they got some Native American in them way back. It's all bullshit.

a lot of us do. lot of white men either took up or raped native women way back in the day. not really hard to believe. in my family it was the other way around though. native man took up a white woman. basically he decided fuck it, imma live the white man's life and did. dressed up and had his hair cut like a typical white dude for his generation. difference between my family and a lot of others i've met though, is one my family has done the research and two, still living members of my family got to meet said native relative. he died before I was born but I've seen his pictures.
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SKARDAVNELNATE posted...

From reading that article it is about portraying a black person in performance art. The problem with it was the reliance on stereotypes over original characters.

Sort of. The main issue was that it relied not just on "stereotypes", but pretty badly racist ones as well, which were usually used in the service of pretty racist stories. Blacks were portrayed as uneducated, foppish rubes who couldn't match the white man in intelligence or sophistication.

SKARDAVNELNATE posted...

I am unfamiliar with Blackface as it seems to have only become an issue recently.

Blackface has been seen as racist for decades. If you are unfamiliar with it, it's simply because you haven't run into it before. It's not a new phenomenon.

SKARDAVNELNATE posted...

I can't think of a genuine example of it occurring in entertainment for the past 30 years

Not surprising, for the reason I stated above - Blackface has been acknowledged as tremendously racist for a long time now. No serious entertainer could get away with it, for the same reason they'd never get away with making a movie seriously arguing that Hitler was a bang-up guy who was just misunderstood.
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darkknight109 posted...

SKARDAVNELNATE posted...

From reading that article it is about portraying a black person in performance art. The problem with it was the reliance on stereotypes over original characters.

Sort of. The main issue was that it relied not just on "stereotypes", but pretty badly racist ones as well, which were usually used in the service of pretty racist stories. Blacks were portrayed as uneducated, foppish rubes who couldn't match the white man in intelligence or sophistication.

SKARDAVNELNATE posted...

I am unfamiliar with Blackface as it seems to have only become an issue recently.

Blackface has been seen as racist for decades. If you are unfamiliar with it, it's simply because you haven't run into it before. It's not a new phenomenon.

SKARDAVNELNATE posted...

I can't think of a genuine example of it occurring in entertainment for the past 30 years

Not surprising, for the reason I stated above - Blackface has been acknowledged as tremendously racist for a long time now. No serious entertainer could get away with it, for the same reason they'd never get away with making a movie seriously arguing that Hitler was a bang-up guy who was just misunderstood.

its a shame that sitcom never got past the pilot episode though I watched it and it looked like it had promise. think it was called "Heil honey, i'm home" and it was about Hitler a wife he somehow had. and his jewish neighbors who of course he hated, but his wife kept letting them come over.
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So . . . . a white liberal woman, LIES about being Native American, so she can cheat a college out of money meant for Native Americans and liberals are mad at . .. . President Trump for calling her out on it???

You gotta be ********** kidding me.
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Born Lucky posted...

So . . . . a white liberal woman, LIES about being Native American, so she can cheat a college out of money meant for Native Americans and liberals are mad at . .. . President Trump for calling her out on it???

You realise that the overwhelming majority of people who are angry about this aren't at all upset that he was attacking Warren, right?
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SKARDAVNELNATE posted...

darkknight109 posted...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blackface

From reading that article it is about portraying a black person in performance art. The problem with it was the reliance on stereotypes over original characters.

Here's one for you:
https://www.damninteresting.com/the-baader-meinhof-phenomenon/

Baader-Meinhof is the phenomenon where one stumbles upon some obscure piece of informationoften an unfamiliar word or nameand soon afterwards encounters the same subject again, often repeatedly.

I am unfamiliar with Blackface as it seems to have only become an issue recently. I can't think of a genuine example of it occurring in entertainment for the past 30 years. Yet it seems to keep popping up in other places and getting disproportionate reactions. I don't see a problem with it. The only conclusion I can reach is that there is a modern fallacy to conflate a character as representing everyone belonging to the race that character is associated with (ie people being racist).

I chose Muhammad Ali for a book report in AP English in high school, later in the week the teacher wanted us all to be the subject. Did I do blackface?
Hell no, even then I was socially aware to the fact it was obnoxiously offensive for me to go in blackface. This isn't a new social issue.. If this is new for you, perhaps you need to broaden your social horizons.
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Melon_Master posted...

If this is new for you, perhaps you need to broaden your social horizons.

Muhammed_Master trying to create new SJWs. This is how the disease spreads.

darkknight109 posted...

Born Lucky posted...

So . . . . a white liberal woman, LIES about being Native American, so she can cheat a college out of money meant for Native Americans and liberals are mad at . .. . President Trump for calling her out on it???

You realise that the overwhelming majority of people who are angry about this aren't at all upset that he was attacking Warren, right?

The overwhelming majority of people who are angry would be angry regardless of what Trump said or did.
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Blightzkrieg posted...

Melon_Master posted...

If this is new for you, perhaps you need to broaden your social horizons.

Muhammed_Master trying to create new SJWs. This is how the disease spreads.

I know you're joking, but I grew up with the sport having a heavy influence on my life, my choice had less to do with his religion and more to do with the sport.
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ninja_lootz posted...

The overwhelming majority of people who are angry would be angry regardless of what Trump said or did.

Well it's fortunate that he actually did something ridiculously stupid this time, or else their anger would be unwarranted.

Born Lucky posted...

So . . . . a white liberal woman, LIES about being Native American, so she can cheat a college out of money meant for Native Americans and liberals are mad at . .. . President Trump for calling her out on it???

You gotta be ********** kidding me.

That's all lies you've bought into. Warren didn't use her heritage to get advantage in education. Many law schools were actively pursuing women. That much is true.

The Globe obtained a portion of Warrens application to Rutgers, which asks if prospective students want to apply for admission under the schools Program for Minority Group Students. Warren answered no.

For her employment documents at the University of Texas, Warren indicated that she was white.

But Penns 2005 Minority Equity Report identified her as the recipient of a 1994 faculty award, listing her name in bold to signify that she was a minority.

The Herald has twice quoted Charles Fried, the head of the Harvard appointing committee that recommended Warren for her position in 1995, saying that the Democratic candidates heritage didnt come up during the course of her hiring. It simply played no role in the appointments process, he said. It was not mentioned and I didnt mention it to the faculty.

The Herald later quoted Fried, a former U.S. Solicitor General under President Ronald Reagan, saying, I can state categorically that the subject of her Native American ancestry never once was mentioned.

Harvard Law School at the time was embroiled in a fierce debate over lack of faculty diversity. African American law professor Derrick Bell took a two-year leave of absence to protest the programs hiring policies, students held frequent demonstrations over the same cause and the Massachusetts Commission Against Discrimination had filed a probable cause finding against the school for denying tenure to Clare Dalton, a liberal instructor.

But several news accounts during that period identified Fried as a conservative faculty member who downplayed the need for change. The Globe described him in April 1992 as an outspoken defender of the beleaguered faculty appointments committee.

...

Harvard hired Warren for a temporary position in 1992, and the law school reported a Native American woman on its federally mandated affirmative-action report. The program did not report a Native American woman for 1993 through 1995, during which time Warren was back at Penn she had spurned Harvards initial offer of a tenured position, according to a Globe report.

Warren finally accepted a tenured teaching job at Harvard in 1995. An announcement of the professors hire that year in the Harvard Crimson did not mention her lineage or say that she was the law schools first Native American faculty member.

I don't know how it works in the US exactly but in Canada you can't get any kind of status benefit for First Nations heritage without having a status card. And those require extensive documented family history. If you don't meet the standards (or it's on your mother's side) you have to report as white or whatever other heritage you may be. Even if you do know you have indigenous family.

Warren didn't apply to school mentioning her heritage. If she was taken in as a minority it has to do with her being a woman in law. Regardless of what % she may be, if she ever used any ethnicity claims to get ahead it was after getting her education. Not to take scholarship money at you've claimed.

Warren does not have the tribal affiliation required to benefit from any Native American heritage she may have. That's also required to check those boxes and be taking in as a minority student or hire

https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2012/05/is-elizabeth-warren-native-american-or-what/257415/

http://wapo.st/2njpYDy
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Foxx shut dat bs down.
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darkknight109 posted...

not just on "stereotypes", but pretty badly racist ones as well, which were usually used in the service of pretty racist stories

I understand stereotypes and racist to both be forms of generalization. In a psychological context they stem from such things as 'Fundamental Attribution Error' and 'Cognitive Schemas'. What I do not understand is how a tool equates to the way in which it was used. The makeup is not the same as the performance. If you don't like a performance I expect it has more to do with the performer and less with the makeup the performer was wearing. To say that the makeup is racist is another example of 'Fundamental Attribution Error'.

darkknight109 posted...

Blacks were portrayed as uneducated, foppish rubes who couldn't match the white man in intelligence or sophistication.

I find this to be a racist attitude. A specific character or possibly a group of individual characters were shown to be uneducated and foppish. I do not think an individual should be seen as representing an entire class of people.

darkknight109 posted...

Blackface has been seen as racist for decades. If you are unfamiliar with it, it's simply because you haven't run into it before. It's not a new phenomenon.

Yes, I see it originated from decades ago. However it also appears to have fallen from favor and thus vanished from use in entertainment for several decades. As such in the past 30 years there has been little to no exposure to it. So I wonder how people are aware of it and the connotations associated with it if they have not seen the performances that inspired that association.

Melon_Master posted...

I chose Muhammad Ali for a book report in AP English in high school, later in the week the teacher wanted us all to be the subject. Did I do blackface?
Hell no, even then I was socially aware to the fact it was obnoxiously offensive for me to go in blackface.

I'd like to know how you were aware to this fact. Where did you learn about blackface and it's meaning? Did you agree that the issue was with the makeup?

I'm going to switch, now, from psychology to sociology. An action is not an isolated event. Context is form by the place and time, as well as the perceptions of those that observe the action. There are instances where wearing dark makeup complies with existing social norms, such as mascara or lipstick. Wearing makeup at a fancy restaurant at meal time has a different context than wearing makeup on a street corner late at night. Similarly one person may view the level of makeup applied as being conservative while another may view the same level as excessive.

So with this in mind I want to ask, as someone that is more socially aware and has a better understanding of the issue, is blackface racist is every context?
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Bruh

SKARDAVNELNATE posted...

...

Pretty sure you're socially unaware, ok?
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ClarkDuke posted...

Pretty sure you're socially unaware, ok?

Correct. That is why I'm asking questions. To gain an understanding of something I've had limited exposure to.
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