Current Events > Senator Al Frankenstein facing NEW sex assault allegations!

(+) Yeah! (+)

The reality is they'll ALWAYS be people on both sides that will tow the party line, especially now. The issue arises when people try to paint the narrative that one side is based off the reaction of a few random people, when that's not the reality at all.

But hey, got to keep that divisiveness alive at any cost
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s0nicfan posted...

That_Happened posted...

s0nicfan posted...

http://people.com/politics/leeann-tweeden-doesnt-want-al-franken-to-step-down/

Why would you post an example directly from the person who accused him? If she doesn't want him to resign, how is that an example of "the left rallying around Franken?"

Because it's an example of "forgiveness absolves them of their actions".

No it's not. It's an example of a Republican woman saying "sometimes people make mistakes and this wasn't one warranting him stepping down unless other women come forward." Sometimes you have to read more than the headline.

But hey, you also ignored the other link entirely.

Because you obviously didn't read that article either. She even calls out that people "may think I only feel this way because Franken is a democrat and so am I, but that's only true in the most superficial sense." She goes on to explain the deeper idea: that many people in congress have done bad things but that Dems would be the only voters willing to get rid of those people, which would lead to political chaos. That despite their mistakes, those same congressmen are the only ones keeping womens' rights issues afloat in America and there's no guarantee they'd be replaced with other Democrats if they resigned.

Basically she says it's better to have a Dem like Franken who owns up to his mistake, apologizes, opens himself up to investigation, and moves forward trying to be a better person while still being an ally for women's rights, than to have him replaced with a Republican senator who will destroy all the work he's done. So it's not as simple as you want it to be.
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That_Happened posted...

Basically she says it's better to have a Dem like Franken who owns up to his mistake, apologizes, opens himself up to investigation, and moves forward trying to be a better person while still being an ally for women's rights, than to have him replaced with a Republican senator who will destroy all the work he's done. So it's not as simple as you want it to be.

it is the same logic as people who would vote for Roy Moore over the Democrat. I don't think it is complicated at all.
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That_Happened posted...

Basically she says it's better to have a Dem like Franken who owns up to his mistake, apologizes, opens himself up to investigation, and moves forward trying to be a better person while still being an ally for women's rights, than to have him replaced with a Republican senator who will destroy all the work he's done. So it's not as simple as you want it to be.

AKA:
s0nicfan posted...

And now we get to watch all the people on the left screaming for anyone who does anything like this to lose everything and be ejected from their job... rally around Franken because he's "one of theirs".

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Balrog0 posted...

That_Happened posted...

Basically she says it's better to have a Dem like Franken who owns up to his mistake, apologizes, opens himself up to investigation, and moves forward trying to be a better person while still being an ally for women's rights, than to have him replaced with a Republican senator who will destroy all the work he's done. So it's not as simple as you want it to be.

it is the same logic as people who would vote for Roy Moore over the Democrat. I don't think it is complicated at all.

I don't think the Dems would stand behind someone like Roy Moore. Sorry. Just like they won't stand behind Franken if multiple women come out with stories of way worse behavior than a kiss and a picture.
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That_Happened posted...

I don't think the Dems would stand behind someone like Roy Moore. Sorry.

No, they wouldn't. What does that have to do with what I said, though? He is pro-life rather than pro-choice, so the reason people will vote for him despite his sexual misconduct is different. The logic underlying it is the same.
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SamuelHayden posted...

KazumaKiryu posted...

http://www.cnn.com/2017/11/20/politics/al-franken-inappropriate-touch-2010/index.html

(CNN)A woman says Sen. Al Franken inappropriately touched her in 2010, telling CNN that he grabbed her buttocks while taking a photo at the Minnesota State Fair.

It is the first allegation of improper touching by Franken, who is a Democrat, while he was in office. It comes just days after Leeann Tweeden, a local radio news anchor in California, said that Franken forcibly kissed and groped her in 2006, when Franken was a comedian.

Franken has since issued an apology to Tweeden and faces a potential investigation by the Senate Ethics Committee.

Lindsay Menz, a 33-year-old woman who now lives in Frisco, Texas, reached out to CNN on Thursday hours after Tweeden made her story public. Menz said she wanted to share an "uncomfortable" interaction that left her feeling "gross."

I can't wait until Franken's seat goes to somebody who makes Roy Moore look like a priest. When these 'woke feminist womyn' find out they're losing every single women's rights gain they earned in the 20th century except for voting they will weep, wear those ugly p***** hats, march and throw their fists up in the air to the rhythm of 'fight song' song. It's going to be delicious.

What did you think would happen after you took down Franken, womyn? lmao

What the fuck is wrong with you

s0nicfan posted...

That_Happened posted...

Basically she says it's better to have a Dem like Franken who owns up to his mistake, apologizes, opens himself up to investigation, and moves forward trying to be a better person while still being an ally for women's rights, than to have him replaced with a Republican senator who will destroy all the work he's done. So it's not as simple as you want it to be.

AKA:
s0nicfan posted...

And now we get to watch all the people on the left screaming for anyone who does anything like this to lose everything and be ejected from their job... rally around Franken because he's "actually remorseful, is willing to change his behavior, makes no excuses for his mistake, and is otherwise an ally to women".

I fixed the ending for you. It's not just "he's one of ours," no matter how hard you try to oversimplify it.
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Balrog0 posted...

That_Happened posted...

I don't think the Dems would stand behind someone like Roy Moore. Sorry.

No, they wouldn't. What does that have to do with what I said, though? He is pro-life rather than pro-choice, so the reason people will vote for him despite his sexual misconduct is different. The logic underlying it is the same.

But the logic isn't entirely the same. Dems will not stand by democrats who do heinous and reprehensible things. They will allow room for improvement with people who make small mistakes and are apologetic, though. Dems have a line that they won't cross. There comes a point where they say "this person cannot represent us and cannot be trusted to be a moral person, no matter what. We need him out of here."

Reps on the other hand don't give a fuck what their candidate does.
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he needs to resign like yesterday
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Balrog0 posted...

That_Happened posted...

I don't think the Dems would stand behind someone like Roy Moore. Sorry.

No, they wouldn't. What does that have to do with what I said, though? He is pro-life rather than pro-choice, so the reason people will vote for him despite his sexual misconduct is different. The logic underlying it is the same.

There's a bit of a difference. The main "he's the lesser evil" thing is arguably similar, however the big difference in this case would be that he owns his mistakes and ostensibly is ready to make actual changes.

One can definitely argue whether that's enough or not, but it's a big distinction.
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Alucard188 posted...

SamuelHayden posted...

KazumaKiryu posted...

http://www.cnn.com/2017/11/20/politics/al-franken-inappropriate-touch-2010/index.html

(CNN)A woman says Sen. Al Franken inappropriately touched her in 2010, telling CNN that he grabbed her buttocks while taking a photo at the Minnesota State Fair.

It is the first allegation of improper touching by Franken, who is a Democrat, while he was in office. It comes just days after Leeann Tweeden, a local radio news anchor in California, said that Franken forcibly kissed and groped her in 2006, when Franken was a comedian.

Franken has since issued an apology to Tweeden and faces a potential investigation by the Senate Ethics Committee.

Lindsay Menz, a 33-year-old woman who now lives in Frisco, Texas, reached out to CNN on Thursday hours after Tweeden made her story public. Menz said she wanted to share an "uncomfortable" interaction that left her feeling "gross."

I can't wait until Franken's seat goes to somebody who makes Roy Moore look like a priest. When these 'woke feminist womyn' find out they're losing every single women's rights gain they earned in the 20th century except for voting they will weep, wear those ugly p***** hats, march and throw their fists up in the air to the rhythm of 'fight song' song. It's going to be delicious.

What did you think would happen after you took down Franken, womyn? lmao

Because Al Franken is the sole reason women's rights exist, and the only thing holding back testosterone-filled dudebro senators from taking all of them back.

SavenForever posted...

I wonder how quick the media will drop this one like they did with the story about him last week.

They dropped it because the allegation came, Al Franken apologised, and she accepted it. You can't make much of a story out of that.

Oh yes you can. There have been many apologies for plenty of different things over the years and people still won't let go.

I admire that both sides have reconciled. I just like pointing out the hypocrisy.
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just need 1 more woman and the skeptics who had said before "I won't believe this till we have like 3 women!" will have to
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SavenForever posted...

I admire that both sides have reconciled. I just like pointing out the hypocrisy.

You're not pointing out hypocrisy you're just getting upset for no reason
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Returning_CEmen posted...

s0nicfan posted...

And now we get to watch all the people on the left screaming for anyone who does anything like this to lose everything and be ejected from their job... rally around Franken because he's "one of theirs". I can smell the hypocrisy already.

Wasn't Anthony Weiner also a Dem

Yeah, Weiner and Spitzer totally got off scott free #rolleyes

I can smell your BS from the underside of the flat Earth that I'm sure you believe in.
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scar the 1 posted...

There's a bit of a difference. The main "he's the lesser evil" thing is arguably similar, however the big difference in this case would be that he owns his mistakes and ostensibly is ready to make actual changes.

One can definitely argue whether that's enough or not, but it's a big distinction.

I hear what you guys are saying, and I do think that calling for an ethics investigation is a big distinction.

I don't think it is that meaningful, though, for the actual arguments being made for why he should stay in the senate. It gives him better optics and provides space for people to make these arguments, but the actual content of the argument - he is a champion of women's rights - is directly analogous to the Roy Moore thing, which I would argue is almost entirely based on his stance on abortion.

that's all I am saying.
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That_Happened posted...

I fixed the ending for you. It's not just "he's one of ours," no matter how hard you try to oversimplify it.

You can add as many excuses as you want, but "we shouldn't ask him to resign because the alternative would be worse" is the same damn thing I said. Turning "He's one of ours" into "He'll fight for my causes more than the alternative" is the SAME THING. There's no nuance there. There's no context needed. At the end of the day, you're absolving him of his actions when in any other instance you'd be calling for a resignation on the grounds that he apologized and that he fights for your pet issues.

EDIT: The answer to "should a politician caught having inappropriately touched a woman be forced to resign" shouldn't depend on their voting record.
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s0nicfan posted...

Turning "He's one of ours" into "He was forgiven by his accuser, who admits he didn't do something reprehensible and unforgivable AND she doesn't want him to resign even though she's a conservative, plus he'll fight for my causes more than the alternative" is the SAME THING. There's no nuance there.

Oh look at that. Nuance that you missed.

EDIT: It doesn't depend entirely on their voting record. It also depends on what they actually did. Inappropriately kissing a woman once and having her forgive you is not on the same level as "predator of teen girls so much that he's banned from shopping malls." Conservatives like you always have trouble with details.
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Balrog0 posted...

scar the 1 posted...

There's a bit of a difference. The main "he's the lesser evil" thing is arguably similar, however the big difference in this case would be that he owns his mistakes and ostensibly is ready to make actual changes.

One can definitely argue whether that's enough or not, but it's a big distinction.

I hear what you guys are saying, and I do think that calling for an ethics investigation is a big distinction.

I don't think it is that meaningful, though, for the actual arguments being made for why he should stay in the senate. It gives him better optics and provides space for people to make these arguments, but the actual content of the argument - he is a champion of women's rights - is directly analogous to the Roy Moore thing, which I would argue is almost entirely based on his stance on abortion.

that's all I am saying.

And I agree with you. I think he should resign, and the comparisons to Louis CK are apt. CK withdrew on his own initiative, because he realized that it's the only thing he could credibly do.
That said I can see a bit of a difference between Moore (and Trump!) and Franken. One party reacts responsibly, the other one doesn't. That's a big ideal voters should value, IMO.
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That_Happened posted...

s0nicfan posted...

Turning "He's one of ours" into "He was forgiven by his accuser, who admits he didn't do something reprehensible and unforgivable AND she doesn't want him to resign even though she's a conservative, plus he'll fight for my causes more than the alternative" is the SAME THING. There's no nuance there.

Oh look at that. Nuance that you missed.

EDIT: It doesn't depend entirely on their voting record. It also depends on what they actually did. Inappropriately kissing a woman once and having her forgive you is not on the same level as "predator of teen girls so much that he's banned from shopping malls." Conservatives like you always have trouble with details.

You're right, it does depend on what they did. Franken has now been accused TWICE, by two different women. So how many excuses exactly are you gonna make? Is there a formula that maps number of votes to number of accusations allowed to pass? Or do you just make it up as you go? For someone accusing "Conservatives" of missing details, you sure forgot that this whole topic is about a second incident and not the original accusation.
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That_Happened posted...

EDIT: It doesn't depend entirely on their voting record. It also depends on what they actually did. Inappropriately kissing a woman once and having her forgive you is not on the same level as "predator of teen girls so much that he's banned from shopping malls." Conservatives like you always have trouble with details.

you are massively downplaying what he did

he photoed himself putting his hands over her boobs while she was asleep

but I am sure you will say "no it was hover hands!"

makes me wonder if you really do care about women not being sexually harassed when you defend this man
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Hahahaha, well of course. Where there is one there are usually others.

Oh wait an I suppose to mindlessly follow him because I vote democrat? No I don't work that way.
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s0nicfan posted...

Franken has now been accused TWICE, by two different women.

Already covered this, remember?

That_Happened posted...

I don't think the Dems would stand behind someone like Roy Moore. Sorry. Just like they won't stand behind Franken if multiple women come out with stories of way worse behavior than a kiss and a picture.

darkphoenix181 posted...

you are massively downplaying what he did

No, I'm giving it the sensible response, just like the woman he did it to: "It was juvenile and creepy, but it was obviously a mistake, and there's no need for him to resign unless this turns out to be a pattern."

Conservatives on the other hand are trying to place him beside Moore. Because they're not very good with details.
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Doom_Art posted...

SavenForever posted...

I admire that both sides have reconciled. I just like pointing out the hypocrisy.

You're not pointing out hypocrisy you're just getting upset for no reason

Lol, I'm not upset. Why would you think that?
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That_Happened posted...

No, I'm giving it the sensible response, just like the woman he did it to: "It was juvenile and creepy, but it was obviously a mistake, and there's no need for him to resign unless this turns out to be a pattern."

Conservatives on the other hand are trying to place him beside Moore. Because they're not very good with details.

there is nothing sensible about saying a 55 year old man photoing himself of cupping the boobs of a sleeping woman is simply a mistake
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darkphoenix181 posted...

there is nothing sensible about saying a 55 year old man photoing himself of cupping the boobs of a sleeping woman is simply a mistake

"cupping the boobs"

I told you buddy. Conservatives and details are like oil and water.
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Franken should resign. Moore should withdraw from his race. Trump should resign
like, all three are skeevy and should be judged accordingly, doesn't have to be partisan

Franken has handled this in a much better way than the other two and should be recognized for that, but it doesn't change the fact that he isn't fit to be a US senator
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That_Happened posted...

darkphoenix181 posted...

there is nothing sensible about saying a 55 year old man photoing himself of cupping the boobs of a sleeping woman is simply a mistake

"cupping the boobs"

I told you buddy. Conservatives and details are like oil and water.

so you are a sexual assault apologist, got it


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darkphoenix181 posted...

so you are a sexual assault apologist, got it

That_Happened posted...

I told you buddy. Conservatives and details are like oil and water.

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SamuelHayden posted...

I can't wait until Franken's seat goes to somebody who makes Roy Moore look like a priest. When these 'woke feminist womyn' find out they're losing every single women's rights gain they earned in the 20th century except for voting they will weep, wear those ugly p***** hats, march and throw their fists up in the air to the rhythm of 'fight song' song. It's going to be delicious.

What did you think would happen after you took down Franken, womyn? lmao

What the fuck is this post?

@That_Happened posted...

darkphoenix181 posted...

so you are a sexual assault apologist, got it

That_Happened posted...

I told you buddy. Conservatives and details are like oil and water.

so he didn't touch her boobs is that your argument?

and this photograph didn't make the woman feel like a piece of meat, objectified and violated?
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Everybody making up shit about rallying behind Franken to make themselves feel better about still backing Moore
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darkphoenix181 posted...

so he didn't touch her boobs is that your argument?

and this photograph didn't make the woman feel like a piece of meat, objectified and violated?

This isn't in any way related to the post you made earlier, which I quoted:

darkphoenix181 posted...

there is nothing sensible about saying a 55 year old man photoing himself of cupping the boobs of a sleeping woman is simply a mistake

Stick with that comment. The one I actually responded to.
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DezCaughtIt posted...

Everybody making up shit about rallying behind Franken to make themselves feel better about still backing Moore

You know it.
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That_Happened posted...

This isn't in any way related to the post you made earlier, which I quoted:

his hands are formed into cups on her chest

so yes it is relevant

so he didn't touch her boobs is that your argument?
and this photograph didn't make the woman feel like a piece of meat, objectified and violated?
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darkphoenix181 posted...

his hands are formed into cups on her chest

Which is not the definition of "cupping." Beethoven didn't "cup" the keys on the piano.

Franken's behavior is bad enough on its own. We don't need you lying and exaggerating to add to it. Is it so hard to just be honest?
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That_Happened posted...

darkphoenix181 posted...

his hands are formed into cups on her chest

Which is not the definition of "cupping." Beethoven didn't "cup" the keys on the piano.

Franken's behavior is bad enough on its own. We don't need you lying and exaggerating to add to it. Is it so hard to just be honest?

did he touch her boobs or not?
did she stay up at night thinking "what else did he do while I was asleep" ?
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That_Happened posted...

Beethoven didn't "cup" the keys on the piano.

You don't know that
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darkphoenix181 posted...

did he touch her boobs or not?
did she stay up at night thinking "what else did he do while I was asleep" ?

Being that she's wearing several layers and what appears to be a bulletproof vest, I'd say he "touched her boobs" in the same way that touching a football player's pads is "touching their chest." Which is still disgusting and juvenile to do for a picture, but he obviously (wrongly) thought it'd be funny and it wasn't done for sexual gratification. I'm more concerned with the unwanted kiss, to be honest with you.

But he apologized and the woman forgave him. Which is why:

That_Happened posted...

No, I'm giving it the sensible response, just like the woman he did it to: "It was juvenile and creepy, but it was obviously a mistake, and there's no need for him to resign unless this turns out to be a pattern."

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s0nicfan posted...

And now we get to watch all the people on the left screaming for anyone who does anything like this to lose everything and be ejected from their job... rally around Franken because he's "one of theirs". I can smell the hypocrisy already.

lol

no

I legit suspect that Tweeden's accusation was a hit job after hearing about her coordination with Roger Stone and seeing the videos come out of her groping male performers on stage.

But this second accusation is pretty worrying. We haven't crossed the threshold for immediate resignation, imo, but it's starting to look like we might get there.
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That_Happened posted...

Being that she's wearing several layers and what appears to be a bulletproof vest, I'd say he "touched her boobs" in the same way that touching a football player's pads is "touching their chest." Which is still disgusting and juvenile to do for a picture, but he obviously (wrongly) thought it'd be funny and it wasn't done for sexual gratification. I'm more concerned with the unwanted kiss, to be honest with you.

so bottom line is he did indeed touch her boobs, he cupped them

but you really really want technicalities to say that it isn't that bad and that maybe even technically you can say he didn't and this photo is definitely where he stopped in your mind
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darkphoenix181 posted...

he cupped them

He didn't. I already corrected you on that.

darkphoenix181 posted...

but you really really want technicalities

I want accuracy.
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That_Happened posted...

He didn't. I already corrected you on that.

That_Happened posted...

Being that she's wearing several layers and what appears to be a bulletproof vest, I'd say he "touched her boobs" in the same way that touching a football player's pads is "touching their chest."

you said he did indeed touch them but tried to argue it wasn't so bad of a touching because technicalities

not a correction, an admission
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Whether Franken's hands are physically in contact with her in that picture seems to me like a particularly unimportant detail
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Antifar posted...

Whether Franken's hands are physically in contact with her in that picture seems to me like a particularly unimportant detail

so whether he pressed down really hard or not makes no difference?

"hover-hand" is just as bad as pressing down hard and cupping her?

just want to clarify
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darkphoenix181 posted...

Antifar posted...

Whether Franken's hands are physically in contact with her in that picture seems to me like a particularly unimportant detail

so whether he pressed down really hard or not makes no difference?

"hover-hand" is just as bad as pressing down hard and cupping her?

just want to clarify

The problem with the picture isn't that he "cupped her boobs" or "groped her." It's that he thought it would be funny to simulate grabbing her chest for a wacky photo. The fact that someone like you would miss the point this badly is not surprising.
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That_Happened posted...

The problem with the picture isn't that he "cupped her boobs" or "groped her." It's that he thought it would be funny to simulate grabbing her chest for a wacky photo. The fact that someone like you would miss the point this badly is not surprising.

you claim the kiss is a bigger deal and now you are acting like this picture would be worse than him squeezing her boobs

I guess consistency is not a word that you understand
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darkphoenix181 posted...

That_Happened posted...

The problem with the picture isn't that he "cupped her boobs" or "groped her." It's that he thought it would be funny to simulate grabbing her chest for a wacky photo. The fact that someone like you would miss the point this badly is not surprising.

you claim the kiss is a bigger deal and now you are acting like this picture would be worse than him squeezing her boobs

Another lie and exaggeration from the boy who can't be arsed to debate honestly.

darkphoenix181 posted...

Ironic that I add nothing to the post, I just took it for what it said

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