Current Events > Coates has clear explanation for why white people shouldn't use the (n) word

(+) Yeah! (+)

https://www.vox.com/identities/2017/11/9/16627900/ta-nehisi-coates-n-word
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Nobody should use the "n" word, stop making it a race thing.
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Only a would say that
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SageHarpuia posted...

Nobody should use the "n" word, stop making it a race thing.

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People are going to do and say what they want. Unless there is an argument for force which is DOA in this country (as it should be), there's really no point here. Again, people that don't say it, aren't going to, and people that do, aren't being told anything new.

This will be a perpetual debate with every new generation. Really, what is the point if every generation it has to be argued ad nauseam?

Stop giving people emotional power over you by caring about the words they use regardless of context.
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Yeah, when I listen to rap music, if the song says it, I say it. I don't care who's offended.

Most people these days need a solid backhand to the head, and to stop being such snowflake pussies.
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Isn't that the guy who wrote that awful Black Panther comic that got cancelled after only 2 issues
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SageHarpuia posted...

Nobody should use the "n" word, stop making it a race thing.

Well according to him:

He gave a potential answer: When youre white in this country, youre taught that everything belongs to you. You think you have a right to everything. Youre conditioned this way. Its not because your hair is a texture or your skin is light. Its the fact that the laws and the culture tell you this. You have a right to go where you want to go, do what you want to do, be however and people just got to accommodate themselves to you.

So here comes this word that you feel like you invented, Coates said. And now somebody will tell you how to use the word that you invented. Why cant I use it? Everyone else gets to use it. You know what? Thats racism that I dont get to use it. You know, thats racist against me. You know, I have to inconvenience myself and hear this song and I cant sing along. How come I cant sing along?
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When youre white in this country, youre taught that everything belongs to you. You think you have a right to everything. Youre conditioned this way.

What the fuck could he possibly know about the white experience that isn't shared in the human experience?
Only plutocrats are taught anything like that. That's the kind of caustic idiocy that kills these discussions.
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Shadow Flare posted...

Yeah, when I listen to rap music, if the song says it, I say it. I don't care who's offended.

Most people these days need a solid backhand to the head, and to stop being such snowflake pussies.

"decorum about words makes me violent"

lol @ you
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YoshitoKikuchi posted...

He gave a potential answer: When youre white in this country, youre taught that everything belongs to you. You think you have a right to everything.

Doesn't this guy say that white people can't know what it's like to be black?

How then can he speak with authority on what it's like to be white
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The whole "n word" debacle is stupid and self-defeating.

It's an ugly word that no one should be casually saying. And the excuse that it's to "take power" away from it falls flat because clearly that plan failed. A white person says it and wields an intense amount of power still in the reaction it provokes...in fact perhaps even moreso now, in this day and age.

Secondly, black people look stupid when they say it. It's not like it's even positive when they say it. A term of endearment, but an asterisk there that notes that it's a term used by ignorant people. Strangely, you didn't see, say, Obama saying it a lot, calling other black people that. Wonder why that is. >_>

Next, it grates on social integration. You embed the word into black popular culture, and then as that popular culture becomes more wildly accepted and liked by everyone, there's a big stop sign thrown up that goes "HEY WHOA, don't think we're all assimilating together like everyone else did before or something. We're still very separate, REMEMBER that. We're still divided, we're still separate, we're still very different"

And then it's like, whoops, social integration has failed. Try again?

The notion that white people have a problem with this because they think they're entitled to everything is dumb as well, because he gives all these examples in language of how different contexts and relations changes how calling people specific words is interpreted...but for those things to exist in the first place, clearly white people adhere to them. So that can't be it.

There's no great mystery to why a white person way into hip-hop would dislike not being able to say the n word when singing along or something like that. A white person enjoying entertainment created by black people that at one time could have been seen as purely for black people, is a sign of social integration, of accepting black people as part of the norm, part of regular society. They're going woo, I enjoy this, but then there's that stop sign that comes up to remind everyone that no actually we're not integrated, there's a big line between us still. Remember that.


So it's just a really dumb fight to have. If the word is rightfully considered racist, then stop advocating for continuing its legacy, because even as its perceived when black people say it, it's not a positive look. There's nothing there worth fighting for, unless you deliberately want to put a roadblock between black culture being normalised in the country.
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YoshitoKikuchi posted...

SageHarpuia posted...

Nobody should use the "n" word, stop making it a race thing.

Well according to him:

He gave a potential answer: When youre white in this country, youre taught that everything belongs to you. You think you have a right to everything. Youre conditioned this way. Its not because your hair is a texture or your skin is light. Its the fact that the laws and the culture tell you this. You have a right to go where you want to go, do what you want to do, be however and people just got to accommodate themselves to you.

So here comes this word that you feel like you invented, Coates said. And now somebody will tell you how to use the word that you invented. Why cant I use it? Everyone else gets to use it. You know what? Thats racism that I dont get to use it. You know, thats racist against me. You know, I have to inconvenience myself and hear this song and I cant sing along. How come I cant sing along?

That guy is really wrong.
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Coates pointed to another example of a white friend who used to have a cabin in upstate New York that he called the white trash cabin. I would never refer to that cabin in that way, Coates said. I would never tell him, Im coming to your white trash cabin.

Coates added, The question one must ask is why so many white people have difficulty extending things that are basic laws of how human beings interact to black people.

I guess the obvious rejoinder is that this is not a basic law of how humans interact, because it is much more socially acceptable for black people to use terms like "white trash"
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Its pretty weird how every attempt at dismissing his argument in this topic either doesn't actually address his argument or merely addresses out of context snippets of it. Who's gonna be the first person to actually quote it in its entirety and argue against it?
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Yeah him bringing up "white trash" was a really bad idea. Like, has he been living under a rock all this time, unaware of the social status of saying things like redneck, hillbilly and white trash? Because there's basically no pushback for anyone using such terms to describe white people.
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A_Good_Boy posted...

Its pretty weird how every attempt at dismissing his argument in this topic either doesn't actually address his argument or merely addresses out of context snippets of it. Who's gonna be the first person to actually quote it in its entirety and argue against it?

I addressed it. Get your eyes checked.
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A_Good_Boy posted...

Its pretty weird how every attempt at dismissing his argument in this topic either doesn't actually address his argument or merely addresses out of context snippets of it. Who's gonna be the first person to actually quote it in its entirety and argue against it?

Racists, sorry Race Realists, hate Coates precisely because of how he lays out his arguments.

Seriously, everyone single one of his articles triggers these types.
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Tmk posted...

A_Good_Boy posted...

Its pretty weird how every attempt at dismissing his argument in this topic either doesn't actually address his argument or merely addresses out of context snippets of it. Who's gonna be the first person to actually quote it in its entirety and argue against it?

I addressed it. Get your eyes checked.

Yes, I did see you foam at the mouth over a tiny snippet of his argument.
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A_Good_Boy posted...

Its pretty weird how every attempt at dismissing his argument in this topic either doesn't actually address his argument or merely addresses out of context snippets of it. Who's gonna be the first person to actually quote it in its entirety and argue against it?

I only quoted the part that makes his argument lose force. The rest of what he discussed previously follows the same vein as the fact that he wouldn't use the term white trash. It's obviously true that words and language is contextual and who you are talking to changes the meanings of terms, but it is less clear where these boundaries are.

He is saying the boundaries are obvious. I think they are with respect to the n-word, but even in his own examples he uses to support his point there are several caveats so it kind of undermines his argument (e.g., I know many women who would call someone who is not their husband "honey" or similar without it being considered contextually inappropriate)
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IWBYD posted...

A_Good_Boy posted...

Its pretty weird how every attempt at dismissing his argument in this topic either doesn't actually address his argument or merely addresses out of context snippets of it. Who's gonna be the first person to actually quote it in its entirety and argue against it?

Racists, sorry Race Realists, hate Coates precisely because of how he lays out his arguments.

Seriously, everyone single one of his articles triggers these types.

It's just weird how every time someone posts something about what he says everyone attempts to dismiss it without actually addressing his argument. I'd just like to see an honest to goodness counter argument for once instead of silly deflections.
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A_Good_Boy posted...

Yes, I did see you foam at the mouth over a tiny snippet of his argument.

His argument wasn't some large complex thought experiment dude.

But keep shitposting in lieu of having anything of competency to say. Not that I needed more reaffirmation I was right but more is nice I suppose.
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A_Good_Boy posted...

It's just weird how every time someone posts something about what he says everyone attempts to dismiss it without actually addressing his argument. I'd just like to see an honest to goodness counter argument for once instead of silly deflections.

Too bad you're blind or you would have seen that by now. Oh well.
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That dude is so pessimistic in every interview I've seem of him lol.
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I like that he gave his opinion with a bit of light-hearted humor and humanity. And he's absolutely right on almost everything, except this:

Balrog0 posted...

I guess the obvious rejoinder is that this is not a basic law of how humans interact, because it is much more socially acceptable for black people to use terms like "white trash"

But the reason I don't get upset when a black person says "white trash" is because I know it's got zero chance of affecting me in any serious way. Maybe I'd get angry if I lived in a predominantly black area and worried that by calling me "white trash" that it may turn everyone against me. But I don't, and it won't, so I don't care.
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A_Good_Boy posted...

I'd just like to see an honest to goodness counter argument for once . . .

Thesis of the article is an "answer" to this question . . .

Why cant white people use the n-word, even as many black people use it, particularly in rap songs and other media?

Because in reality, they can.
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That_Happened posted...

But the reason I don't get upset when a black person says "white trash" is because I know it's got zero chance of affecting me in any serious way. Maybe I'd get angry if I lived in a predominantly black area and worried that by calling me "white trash" that it may turn everyone against me. But I don't, and it won't, so I don't care.

I'm just saying this isn't some universal principle that everyone follows except for white people when discussing black people. Idc about what people call me regardless, yeah.

I DO live in a predominantly black area, too. Not that my neighbors call me white trash. Well, not to my knowledge.
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I'll use it whenever the fuck I want. Black people need to stop policing us White folk on what to say and do.

k darkfire posted...

I'll use it whenever the fuck I want.

Well of course you will, as it doesn't matter what you say when you never leave the house or encounter any other people IRL. You can say whatever you want from the comfort of your beanbag chair and laptop.

I will continue not using the word though. I like being a normal person who doesn't make a point to anger others for no reason besides "they asked me not to so fuck them."
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That_Happened posted...

k darkfire posted...

I'll use it whenever the fuck I want.

Well of course you will, as it doesn't matter what you say when you never leave the house or encounter any other people IRL. You can say whatever you want from the comfort of your beanbag chair and laptop.

I will continue not using the word though. I like being a normal person who doesn't make a point to anger others for no reason besides "they asked me not to so fuck them."

It's a free country. Slavery happened so long ago. Racism is pretty much dead. Again why does this make black people so salty when I use it?

k darkfire posted...

It's a free country.
Slavery happened so long ago.
Racism is pretty much dead.
Again why does this make black people so salty when I use it?

And, with the "Free Space" this gives me a BINGO! What did I win?
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I think his argument still basically boils down to the reason i don't use it, which is you should strive to be a good person, not a bad one. Why intentionally try to offend and hurt? Because that's the logical outcome of using the word.
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White people really think that no one should use it because they can't.

Hahahaha...the caucasity of that statement
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YoshitoKikuchi posted...

SageHarpuia posted...

Nobody should use the "n" word, stop making it a race thing.

Well according to him:

He gave a potential answer: When youre white in this country, youre taught that everything belongs to you. You think you have a right to everything. Youre conditioned this way. Its not because your hair is a texture or your skin is light. Its the fact that the laws and the culture tell you this. You have a right to go where you want to go, do what you want to do, be however and people just got to accommodate themselves to you.

So here comes this word that you feel like you invented, Coates said. And now somebody will tell you how to use the word that you invented. Why cant I use it? Everyone else gets to use it. You know what? Thats racism that I dont get to use it. You know, thats racist against me. You know, I have to inconvenience myself and hear this song and I cant sing along. How come I cant sing along?

God, the anti-white racism is astonishing.

Literally no white person is taught 'everything belongs to you.' Where do these racist morons get their bullshit?
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So his argument is "that's our word"

Haven't heard that before.
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DuranOfForcena posted...

When youre white in this country, youre taught that everything belongs to you. You think you have a right to everything. Youre conditioned this way.

huh.... i must have missed school that day.

He doesn't mean you're taught that in school (but you know that). The "you're conditioned this way" is the more accurate sentence. And we are, no question about it.
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DuranOfForcena posted...

That_Happened posted...

And we are, no question about it.

nope, fuck off with that bullshit

Clearly you're interested in being introspective for a moment.
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Even to this day I'm amazed that so many white people choose this hill to die on time. after time. after time.

"NOBODY should say the word" is code for "If I can't say it, nobody can!"

You would appear less salty about losing power over such a polarizing, hateful word if you flat-out just admitted you wanted to be able to say it.

And for the thousandth time; there are actually TWO separate words in use here - you won't win a debate by attempting to try and combine them, they mean two totally different things.
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_OujiDoza_ posted...

And for the thousandth time; there are actually TWO separate words in use here - you won't win a debate by attempting to try and combine them, they mean two totally different things.

Oh god, are you referring to the -er ending vs the -a ending

They're the same word. Dropping the e and r when pronouncing the word doesn't change that
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mal's definitely right on that front at least and that the conversation has drifted so far from colloquial dialogue/dialect that some have actually been able to sell the idea of an invented secondary spelling to expunge themselves from criticism shouldn't be allowed
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Mal_Fet posted...

_OujiDoza_ posted...

And for the thousandth time; there are actually TWO separate words in use here - you won't win a debate by attempting to try and combine them, they mean two totally different things.

Oh god, are you referring to the -er ending vs the -a ending

They're the same word. Dropping the e and r when pronouncing the word doesn't change that

Mal your opinion is irrelevant just on principle.
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_OujiDoza_ posted...

Mal your opinion is irrelevant just on principle.

I agree that his opinion is irrelevant on principle, but he's right in this case. It doesn't matter what "version" of the word I say, there's a good chance it's going to cause problems for me if I say it freely.
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That_Happened posted...

_OujiDoza_ posted...

Mal your opinion is irrelevant just on principle.

I agree that his opinion is irrelevant on principle, but he's right in this case. It doesn't matter what "version" of the word I say, there's a good chance it's going to cause problems for me if I say it freely.

The question would be why would you want/choose to say it freely?
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_OujiDoza_ posted...

The question would be why would you want/choose to say it freely?

I don't. I agree with what Coates said. I'm just pointing out that there aren't "two different words with two different meanings." The meaning depends on who says it, why, and in what context.
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_OujiDoza_ posted...

Even to this day I'm amazed that so many white people choose this hill to die on time. after time. after time.

"NOBODY should say the word" is code for "If I can't say it, nobody can!"

Right? It's amazing how they play right into Coates' other points. They really do think they own everything - not explicitly and consciously, of course, it's just a turn of phrase based on what path of logic they tend to use here - and they really are blinded by how growing up white in this country meant they had the luxury of being seen as an individual rather than a reflection of their group.

Because it's a word steeped in exclusionary power and authority, and knobheads want to use it because "They all have fun calling themselves it!"?
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YoshitoKikuchi posted...

Its the fact that the laws and the culture tell you this. You have a right to go where you want to go, do what you want to do, be however and people just got to accommodate themselves to you.

holy shit, I've been missing out, then
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YoshitoKikuchi posted...

SageHarpuia posted...

Nobody should use the "n" word, stop making it a race thing.

Well according to him:

He gave a potential answer: When youre white in this country, youre taught that everything belongs to you. You think you have a right to everything. Youre conditioned this way. Its not because your hair is a texture or your skin is light. Its the fact that the laws and the culture tell you this. You have a right to go where you want to go, do what you want to do, be however and people just got to accommodate themselves to you.

So here comes this word that you feel like you invented, Coates said. And now somebody will tell you how to use the word that you invented. Why cant I use it? Everyone else gets to use it. You know what? Thats racism that I dont get to use it. You know, thats racist against me. You know, I have to inconvenience myself and hear this song and I cant sing along. How come I cant sing along?

Lol what white person alive today feels like they invented the n word?

I like Coates occasionally, and he's a great writer but a lot of what he says is nonsense
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