Current Events > I never asked Jesus to die for my sins.

(+) Yeah! (+)

I shouldn't owe someone something I never asked for.
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I was actually trying to break the high score of sinning so he really set me back.
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I was explained to it like this.

You were created by God in his image to worship him, however you have control over your actions and can choose to abandon him. This doesn't change the fact that you were still and will always be a part of God and derive everything from him, but since you chose to forsake him, the only fitting punishment is to be completely without him. Hell is simply the state of being without God, and being without God means you are absolutely nothing.
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If the Bible has an accurate account of God, I wouldn't want to be anywhere near him tbqh

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y_HOYk9ED9Q
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Yeah wtf selfish guy, who the fuck even asked you to do anything for my sins, bro?
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Fishy posted...

I was explained to it like this.

You were created by God in his image to worship him, however you have control over your actions and can choose to abandon him. This doesn't change the fact that you were still and will always be a part of God and derive everything from him, but since you chose to forsake him, the only fitting punishment is to be completely without him. Hell is simply the state of being without God, and being without God means you are absolutely nothing.

What about the people who didn't have a choice?
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Fishy posted...

I was explained to it like this.

You were created by God in his image to worship him, however you have control over your actions and can choose to abandon him. This doesn't change the fact that you were still and will always be a part of God and derive everything from him, but since you chose to forsake him, the only fitting punishment is to be completely without him. Hell is simply the state of being without God, and being without God means you are absolutely nothing.

Why give people freewill at all then if he's going to punish you for using it?
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I knock on someone's door..

$20 to mow your lawn?

No thanks

I step to the side to reveal a fully mowed lawn behind me

Yeah, well about that. I did it anyway.

Extends hand for payment

Pretty much sums up Jesus.
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I never asked for the roads.

I shouldnt owe the government for something I didnt consent to.

MabusIncarnate posted...

I knock on someone's door..

$20 to mow your lawn?

No thanks

I step to the side to reveal a fully mowed lawn behind me

Yeah, well about that. I did it anyway.

Extends hand for payment

Pretty much sums up Jesus.

lol
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Isn't the idea that Eve eating the forbidden fruit was the original sin that all mankind inherited, so we are inherently sinful? And we used to have to absolve this sin by sacrificing animals, but Jesus' sacrifice made up for all original sin so long as you accept him your heart? Which is why Jesus is sometimes called the Lamb of God.
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Fishy posted...

You were created by God in his image to worship him,

Screw God then
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He was a glutton for punishment.
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awesome999 posted...

Fishy posted...

You were created by God in his image to worship him,

Screw God then

In the Preacher comic, it's theorized that God is just massively insecure. He created the angels to love him unconditionally, but it wasn't enough because they'd love him no matter what. So he created humans and let them suffer because he really enjoys that people love him despite disease, disaster, etc.
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if anything in that fairytale book were real, humanity wouldnt exist today.
or the rapture would have happened the second it became acceptable to be something youre not.
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DreadedWave posted...

Fishy posted...

I was explained to it like this.

You were created by God in his image to worship him, however you have control over your actions and can choose to abandon him. This doesn't change the fact that you were still and will always be a part of God and derive everything from him, but since you chose to forsake him, the only fitting punishment is to be completely without him. Hell is simply the state of being without God, and being without God means you are absolutely nothing.

Why give people freewill at all then if he's going to punish you for using it?

So we're not essentially puppets? Plus is kinda nice to have your creations choose to love and obey you.

thrashmetal14 posted...

I never asked for the roads.

I shouldnt owe the government for something I didnt consent to.

At least the government exists.
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if you don't sin, Jesus died for nothing
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PSXer_D5_MkIII posted...

If the Bible has an accurate account of God, I wouldn't want to be anywhere near him tbqh

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pegusus123456 posted...

Isn't the idea that Eve eating the forbidden fruit was the original sin that all mankind inherited, so we are inherently sinful? And we used to have to absolve this sin by sacrificing animals, but Jesus' sacrifice made up for all original sin so long as you accept him your heart? Which is why Jesus is sometimes called the Lamb of God.

Religion is so fucking crazy.
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good, because he didn't.
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Jesus didn't just die for your sins. He saved your entire family and all your friends. If you can't be grateful then you are kinda scummy.
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God kinda reminds me of Donald Trump in a way

Do you think God has abnormally tiny hands as well, and gave everyone else normal hands so we wouldn't wonder why our hands are so tiny if we are made in his image?
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PSXer_D5_MkIII posted...

If the Bible has an accurate account of God, I wouldn't want to be anywhere near him tbqh

The bible is the reason I am thoroughly convinced that the biblical god is not real.
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Fishy posted...

I was explained to it like this.

You were created by God in his image to worship him, however you have control over your actions and can choose to abandon him. This doesn't change the fact that you were still and will always be a part of God and derive everything from him, but since you chose to forsake him, the only fitting punishment is to be completely without him. Hell is simply the state of being without God, and being without God means you are absolutely nothing.

Lel
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3khc posted...

Jesus didn't just die for your sins. He saved your entire family and all your friends. If you can't be grateful then you are kinda scummy.

Fake news!
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*in Batman's voice*

And you'll never have to.
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But Larry grew increasingly neurotic and obscene
I mean, he, he never asked to be raised up from the tomb
I mean no one ever actually asked him to forsake his dreams

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nuxdMQsAgJI
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It's a complex and nuanced theology. There's a lot more to the entire thing than Jesus dying on the cross. The scope of the entire narrative is quite large and involved.

It's quite an interesting story and theme, but seeing it in its fullness requires some deep reading of the entire Bible which isn't an easy feat for most people.

Verdekal posted...

I shouldn't owe someone something I never asked for.

Who says you owe him?

Grace is always called a gift.

Asherlee10 posted...

Why would a god (with deity characteristics) need or want something?

Why would someone with deity characteristics not want anything? Does being a deity mean never wanting anything?

FLUFFYGERM posted...

Asherlee10 posted...

Why would a god (with deity characteristics) need or want something?

Why would someone with deity characteristics not want anything? Does being a deity mean never wanting anything?

He would know everything. How could he not want someone to do something? He knows exactly what they will do.
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Religion is fundamentally flawed in that it preaches free will but to exist required complete subservience.
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hockeybub89 posted...

FLUFFYGERM posted...

Asherlee10 posted...

Why would a god (with deity characteristics) need or want something?

Why would someone with deity characteristics not want anything? Does being a deity mean never wanting anything?

He would know everything. How could he not want someone to do something? He knows exactly what they will do.

No one understands or agrees on what omniscience means, or how it would even work. As far as we can tell there's no reason why immortality and being all-powerful mean you won't have emotions or desires.

If we could simulate any kind of universe, and then live inside of that universe as all-powerful god-characters...would that mean that we would never have any interests or goals in that simulated universe?

Duncanwii posted...

Religion is fundamentally flawed in that it preaches free will but to exist required complete subservience.

The two concepts are not mutually exclusive, though. Religions that call for follower obedience are typically going to ask the follower to obey. It's only radical fringes that use violence or other illicit methods to enforce compulsion.

He went away for 3 days and then came back. Some fucking sacrifice. More like "Jesus took a long weekend for your sins"
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FLUFFYGERM posted...

It's a complex and nuanced theology. There's a lot more to the entire thing than Jesus dying on the cross. The scope of the entire narrative is quite large and involved.

It's quite an interesting story and theme, but seeing it in its fullness requires some deep reading of the entire Bible which isn't an easy feat for most people.

I've read the entire bible, front to back

Sure I thought was interesting when I was a kid, but then I grew up and realized it was full of fallacies, nonsense (omnipotent/Omniscient being cannot have feelings like happiness and sadness, and cannot be surprised by anything or angered by anything, logically speaking) , and had more plot holes than any other medium that had ever existed.

It's a fun fairy tale book to read once when you're young and naive, but when you reach that state of adulthood and your naivety drops, you start to realize that it makes absolutely no sense, even if looked at metaphorically rather than literally.
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FLUFFYGERM posted...

hockeybub89 posted...

FLUFFYGERM posted...

Asherlee10 posted...

Why would a god (with deity characteristics) need or want something?

Why would someone with deity characteristics not want anything? Does being a deity mean never wanting anything?

He would know everything. How could he not want someone to do something? He knows exactly what they will do.

No one understands or agrees on what omniscience means, or how it would even work. As far as we can tell there's no reason why immortality and being all-powerful mean you won't have emotions or desires.

If we could simulate any kind of universe, and then live inside of that universe as all-powerful god-characters...would that mean that we would never have any interests or goals in that simulated universe?

But if I programmed a character to behave a certain way, then how can I get mad at him for not behaving a different way? And if I program my characters with free will and offer no proof that I exist, I don't believe I could punish them for not believing I am watching over them.
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Prince of fire, hear my plea. I call upon the flame to summon you. I call upon the raven, and the bat, and all the dark creatures of nature. Upon the charred and blackened stars that rained at your beginning to draw you like a rising mist from out of the darkness of the earth. Prince of darkness, I summon you in the name of the seven plagues, of thunderclouds that weep with nightshade. In the name of every spirit that still bends against the rasp of the wind and cries out to you. In the subterranean rivers of blood which demons have drunk, from the smoke of torment that rises forever and ever. I evoke you. Appear to us, Satan. Appear to us, Satan! Appear to us!
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FLUFFYGERM posted...

If we could simulate any kind of universe, and then live inside of that universe as all-powerful god-characters...would that mean that we would never have any interests or goals in that simulated universe?

No, because we would have an existence outside of said simulation, and have a past experience of not being an all powerful god, and have the knowledge that we aren't all powerful outside of said simulation

Wtf kind of comparison is this?
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Jesus dying for your sin is like someone buying you a drink at the bar. You didnt ask for it, but now that it's been bought, you gotta sleep with them.

Otherwise you're just being a tease and an arsehole
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Samurontai posted...

No, because we would have an existence outside of said simulation, and have a past experience of not being an all powerful god, and have the knowledge that we aren't all powerful outside of said simulation

So then you've proven that immortality and power do not determine whether or not someone has feelings, emotions, wants, etc.

hockeybub89 posted...

But if I programmed a character to behave a certain way, then how can I get mad at him for not behaving a different way? And if I program my characters with free will and offer no proof that I exist, I don't believe I could punish them for not believing I am watching over them.

But you're assuming people are programmed by a deity and then punished for what they are programmed to do. I'm not sure any main religion teaches this.

FLUFFYGERM posted...

Samurontai posted...

No, because we would have an existence outside of said simulation, and have a past experience of not being an all powerful god, and have the knowledge that we aren't all powerful outside of said simulation

So then you've proven that immortality and power do not determine whether or not someone has feelings, emotions, wants, etc.

No, ive understood that comparing a being that was born into omniscience to a being that was once mortal but turned immortal is like comparing a new born child to an old man

It's stupid
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Samurontai posted...

FLUFFYGERM posted...

Samurontai posted...

No, because we would have an existence outside of said simulation, and have a past experience of not being an all powerful god, and have the knowledge that we aren't all powerful outside of said simulation

So then you've proven that immortality and power do not determine whether or not someone has feelings, emotions, wants, etc.

No, ive understood that comparing a being that was born into omniscience to a being that was once mortal but turned immortal is like comparing a new born child to an old man

It's stupid

Okay so let's look at it from a very basic angle.

1) The argument was that being immortal and all-powerful determines whether or not you can want/have feelings/have emotions/etc.

2) You agreed that there is a case in which being immoral and all-powerful does NOT determine whether or not you can want/have feelings/have emotions/etc.

3) Therefore being immortal and all-powerful do NOT determine whether or not you can want/have feelings/have emotions/etc.

FLUFFYGERM posted...

Samurontai posted...

FLUFFYGERM posted...

Samurontai posted...

No, because we would have an existence outside of said simulation, and have a past experience of not being an all powerful god, and have the knowledge that we aren't all powerful outside of said simulation

So then you've proven that immortality and power do not determine whether or not someone has feelings, emotions, wants, etc.

No, ive understood that comparing a being that was born into omniscience to a being that was once mortal but turned immortal is like comparing a new born child to an old man

It's stupid

Okay so let's look at it from a very basic angle.

1) The argument was that being immortal and all-powerful determines whether or not you can want/have feelings/have emotions/etc.

Yes

2) You agreed that there is a case in which being immoral and all-powerful does NOT determine whether or not you can want/have feelings/have emotions/etc.

Circumstantial, but sure

3) Therefore being immortal and all-powerful do NOT determine whether or not you can want/have feelings/have emotions/etc.

In this one scenario, yes. Unless you're making the claim that god isn't actually all powerful at all but is instead some scientist in charge of a simulation, then sure I can agree that he's capable of having feelings

Answers in bold
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TL;DR

If a being is "born" all powerful and all knowing, he can't have feelings because there's nothing for him to experience to actually develop any sort of feelings

If a being is born mortal, and then at a later date becomes a "god", then yes he is capable of feeling because he has a history of past experiences
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I don't need to offer X scenarios under which an immortal/all-powerful/all-knowing deity can have feelings and emotions and wants. It was sufficient to show that the deity-qualities are not in themselves relevant to whether or not a deity can have feelings and emotions and desires. Maybe all of these things are deity-like qualities.