Board 8 > Politics Containment Topic 138: Politically Motivated Ingrates (and Corrik)

(+) Yeah! (+)

We want everything done for us!
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https://twitter.com/ajvicens/status/914317580718018560

Last post in a thread illustrating the point that we need more help in Puerto Rico
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I've been avoiding the topic for a bit, anything of note?
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https://twitter.com/realdonaldtrump/status/914565910798782465

25 years of rocket man
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I have a question.

For those criticizing the efforts in Puerto Rico, what would you be doing differently to make it better?
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MoogleKupo141 posted...

https://twitter.com/realdonaldtrump/status/914565910798782465

25 years of rocket man

I wonder how much Trump is paying that Jacob Wohl guy.
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MoogleKupo141 posted...

https://twitter.com/realdonaldtrump/status/914565910798782465

25 years of rocket man

He really doesn't know that Kim Jong-il and Kim Jong-un are different people

Holy fucking shit
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He just thought Kim Jong was sick, but he got better.
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I mean it is easy to just handwave these articles because they are foxnews, and you want to only get your information from sources slanted to democrats. I just do not think it is unreasonable to ask you to read them and formulate opinions using both sides of the fence.

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2017/10/01/puerto-rican-ceo-sends-engineers-to-help-fema-efforts-calls-local-pols-inept.html

Which is why I ask specifically in what would you have done to have done anything better?
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Corrik posted...

I mean it is easy to just handwave these articles because they are foxnews,

quite easy, yeah.
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Mr Lasastryke posted...

Corrik posted...

I mean it is easy to just handwave these articles because they are foxnews,

quite easy, yeah.

Then why should someone hold tons of merit in your opinion when you are stating you are coming from a slanted viewpoint and are not even acknowledging the dissenting viewpoint?
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Again, Corrik, no one is saying that FEMA isn't doing their best or that the PR local government was properly prepared.

Do we have more military vehicles that we could get there that could do supply drops? Do we have more workers we could send there to help clear the roads and city streets, and get resources to the people?

If the answer to either of those questions is yes, then we aren't doing enough.

Yes "they want everything done for them." Tough shit, it's Trump's job to do everything for them if they can't.
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Corrik posted...

Then why should someone hold tons of merit in your opinion when you are stating you are coming from a slanted viewpoint and are not even acknowledging the dissenting viewpoint?

when discussing news (not opinion pieces) i just want facts, not a "viewpoint." is that too much to ask for?

yeah i know, no news source is 100% unbiased but fox news is RIDICULOUSLY biased. not going to waste my time reading "news articles" by them. i'm not reading infowars either.

(and i'm not saying anyone "should hold tons of merit in my opinion." i'm just posting my opinions here. take it or leave it.)
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It's just quotes from someone with firsthand knowledge of inept local PR governments Lasa
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Jakyl25 posted...

It's just quotes from someone with firsthand knowledge of inept local PR governments Lasa

and there's no news source besides fox reporting this?
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Mr Lasastryke posted...

Corrik posted...

Then why should someone hold tons of merit in your opinion when you are stating you are coming from a slanted viewpoint and are not even acknowledging the dissenting viewpoint?

when discussing news (not opinion pieces) i just want facts, not a "viewpoint." is that too much to ask for?

yeah i know, no news source is 100% unbiased but fox news is RIDICULOUSLY biased. not going to waste my time reading "news articles" by them. i'm not reading infowars either.

(and i'm not saying anyone "should hold tons of merit in my opinion." i'm just posting my opinions here. take it or leave it.)

So, the FEMA Director and a Puerto Rico CEO providing engineers on the ground are not reliable because they are in a FoxNews story?

What about the Virgin Islands and Puerto Rico governors?

Is the mayor of San Juan more reliable?

I am honestly asking. I read both CNN and FoxNews and form an opinion after reading both.

The most facts I have gathered is... Puerto Rico has extremely bad infrastructure. It is in a recession and is up to its head in debt. It is an island.

I add this all up with what is stated on both sides with side 1. Not doing enough and side 2. Doing everything we can.

And, I get that there are circumstances making this a harder issue than normal to deal with. They are trying their best and doing their best. That people are criticizing those trying their best to help out their area.

So I am asking you, how would you have done it better?
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Corrik posted...

So, the FEMA Director and a Puerto Rico CEO providing engineers on the ground are not reliable because they are in a FoxNews story?

they are, but i'd rather get this information from a source that's not fox news.
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Corrik posted...

That people are criticizing those trying their best to help out their area.

Who is doing this?
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Jakyl25 posted...

Corrik posted...

That people are criticizing those trying their best to help out their area.

Who is doing this?

I believe I saw people here saying they aren't doing enough and people are dying out here while they weren't there to help initially and need to do more.

That is criticizing your help.
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No, it's criticizing the people in charge of sending the help
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Mr Lasastryke posted...

Corrik posted...

So, the FEMA Director and a Puerto Rico CEO providing engineers on the ground are not reliable because they are in a FoxNews story?

they are, but i'd rather get this information from a source that's not fox news.

Places that are slanting a message generally do not post information that is contradictory to the message they wish to convey. Just like FoxNews isn't gungho reporting something that contradicts their overlying message. Reason I read both is to get both messages. The truth is usually somewhere in the middle or is just something both sides are making something out of nothing.

I remember at the beginning of this presidency CNNs main headline being... President Trump bows to Saudi leader after criticizing Obama for bowing. And Fox News headline the very same day saying "Trump does not Bow for Saudi Leader as Obama did".

Same exact day. Same exact thing. Completely opposing headlines. And, the truth? He may have slightly. Inconclusive.
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Jakyl25 posted...

No, it's criticizing the people in charge of sending the help

That is your help. You would have no one there to help you if that person did not send them.

You are just arguing to argue there.
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So your opinion is that Trump is doing his absolute best to help PR?
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Corrik posted...

Jakyl25 posted...

No, it's criticizing the people in charge of sending the help

That is your help. You would have no one there to help you if that person did not send them.

You are just arguing to argue there.

There is a huge difference between if people were criticizing the people that are already in PR helping, and people just criticizing Trump. "They're not doing enough" has a completely different meaning in each case.

To pretend there isn't is very dishonest.
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StealThisSheen posted...

Corrik posted...

Jakyl25 posted...

No, it's criticizing the people in charge of sending the help

That is your help. You would have no one there to help you if that person did not send them.

You are just arguing to argue there.

There is a huge difference between if people were criticizing the people that are already in PR helping, and people just criticizing Trump. "They're not doing enough" has a completely different meaning in each case.

To pretend there isn't is very dishonest.

It reminds me of the Anthem kneeling debate honestly

Conservatives claim that kneeling disrespects every miltary serviceperson even though the message of the protest has nothing to do with them.

Progressives are able to see more nuance.
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speaking of news outlets, the dutch news reported 0% on PR tonight. lots of stuff about the catalan independence referendum, though - i get that that's an important topic right now (and probably more directly relevant to my country), but i still thought it was kinda weird.
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Jakyl25 posted...

So your opinion is that Trump is doing his absolute best to help PR?

I believe he is not calling the shots based on his own knowledge and is relying on what advisors are telling him is needed or not and what is realistic of them to accomplish and how.
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Corrik posted...

Jakyl25 posted...

So your opinion is that Trump is doing his absolute best to help PR?

I believe he is not calling the shots based on his own knowledge and is relying on what advisors are telling him is needed or not and what is realistic of them to accomplish and how.

So your gut response was no so you had to concoct this weasel answer to absolve him from blame
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Jakyl25 posted...

Corrik posted...

Jakyl25 posted...

So your opinion is that Trump is doing his absolute best to help PR?

I believe he is not calling the shots based on his own knowledge and is relying on what advisors are telling him is needed or not and what is realistic of them to accomplish and how.

So your gut response was no so you had to concoct this weasel answer to absolve him from blame

I believe the answer is yes based on what I have seen. And, I do not think that comes down to what Trump thinks or does. That comes down to experts whose job is to assess these situations and handle them.
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So when someone in PR says we need to get these supplies to the people, the people advising Trump say that there is literally no way the United States of America with all of its people and resources can manage that at the moment.
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Corrik posted...

Jakyl25 posted...

So your opinion is that Trump is doing his absolute best to help PR?

I believe he is not calling the shots based on his own knowledge and is relying on what advisors are telling him is needed or not and what is realistic of them to accomplish and how.

What's your basis for this?
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ChaosTonyV4 posted...

Corrik posted...

Jakyl25 posted...

So your opinion is that Trump is doing his absolute best to help PR?

I believe he is not calling the shots based on his own knowledge and is relying on what advisors are telling him is needed or not and what is realistic of them to accomplish and how.

What's your basis for this?

That the FEMA Director and the head of the DHS seemed to both feel that the efforts were going as good as they could, and that there is logistical issues that are causing issues but that they are doing the best they can.
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What if the efforts are going as well as FEMA could possibly do, but there is still more that could be done as a country given our vast resources and power

Just because FEMA is giving it their best effort doesn't mean we can't do more
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It just makes no sense to me that we could logistically take out an entire country like North Korea, but we can't logistically get crates of supplies to the middle of Puerto Rico without roads
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Jakyl25 posted...

It just makes no sense to me that we could logistically take out an entire country like North Korea, but we can't logistically get crates of supplies to the middle of Puerto Rico without roads

We can drone the s*** out of people but we can't actually use the drones to help people.
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someone get amazon on the phone

are their drones ready yet?
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Imagine a drone that shot chicken nuggets instead of bullets
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Corrik posted...

I believe the answer is yes based on what I have seen. And, I do not think that comes down to what Trump thinks or does. That comes down to experts whose job is to assess these situations and handle them.

And so you think there's no issue whatsoever that Trump does not know anything about the situation himself and is thus relying 100% on what these advisers tell him, but also basically singing his own praises about the relief effort and telling people that are actually there "No, you're wrong" despite the fact he knows nothing and is golfing instead of finding out.
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You guys are more rational than me, am I expecting too much from America?
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Like, here's my question.

According to you, it's not the president's job to know or do anything... It's up to what advisers and experts tell them.

So why did you earlier say "Trump is better than Hillary" if it's not actually up to them?
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StealThisSheen posted...

Like, here's my question.

According to you, it's not the president's job to know or do anything... It's up to what advisers and experts tell them.

So why did you earlier say "Trump is better than Hillary" if it's not actually up to them?

Hillarys stated goals were contrary to what I think is best. And her ideology did not mesh with what I feel is best.
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Jakyl25 posted...

What if the efforts are going as well as FEMA could possibly do, but there is still more that could be done as a country given our vast resources and power

Just because FEMA is giving it their best effort doesn't mean we can't do more

I asked what you would have done better.
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And I said what I think could be done better earlier in this topic.

Jakyl25 posted...

Do we have more military vehicles that we could get there that could do supply drops? Do we have more workers we could send there to help clear the roads and city streets, and get resources to the people?

If the answer to either of those questions is yes, then we aren't doing enough.

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Jakyl25 posted...

And I said what I think could be done better earlier in this topic.

Jakyl25 posted...

Do we have more military vehicles that we could get there that could do supply drops? Do we have more workers we could send there to help clear the roads and city streets, and get resources to the people?

If the answer to either of those questions is yes, then we aren't doing enough.

Everything I have seen is that they are coming in nonstop and that they have opened up more areas to come into. That it was pretty wiped out which made it harder to do so initially.
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We could also be doing more to reduce our carbon footprint and promote green energy, so that the rising temperature doesn't create an environment that allows for super-powered hurricanes to spawn with such regularity. But that's just a Chinese hoax, right?
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Also, Korea to Puerto Rico.

In the Korea situation, you have established ground control in the area. Military bases and supply routes. Allies in the area with necessary support.

Better to compare Japan (ww2 i know) to Puerto Rico. You can't just hop on over. It required setting up a basis to get past the logistical issues.

If Puerto Rico was not an island or was just 80% decimated compared to 100% decimated the difference would be night and day.

Most people who understand the logistics in the interviews have said they are doing as good as can be expected in the situation.
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Inviso posted...

We could also be doing more to reduce our carbon footprint and promote green energy, so that the rising temperature doesn't create an environment that allows for super-powered hurricanes to spawn with such regularity. But that's just a Chinese hoax, right?

http://www.cnn.com/2017/09/30/politics/resilience-climate-change/index.html

It's okay, you just need resilience
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Inviso posted...

We could also be doing more to reduce our carbon footprint and promote green energy, so that the rising temperature doesn't create an environment that allows for super-powered hurricanes to spawn with such regularity. But that's just a Chinese hoax, right?

Do you think hurricanes are some new phenomenon?
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Do you think it's right that when people ask for more help, Trump calls them ingrates who want everything done for them?
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MoogleKupo141 posted...

https://twitter.com/realdonaldtrump/status/914565910798782465

25 years of rocket man

In addition to that point, I want everyone to take a moment to appreciate how absolutely fucking insane it is for a president to not only publically undercut his Secretary of State, but to do so to say say that diplomacy is useless in dealing with a nuclear standoff
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