Current Events > Body cams are "unfair to officers" according to the police union...

(+) Yeah! (+)

http://stlouis.cbslocal.com/2017/09/22/police-union-says-body-cams-could-be-unfair-to-officers/
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Actually being accountable for their actions is very unfair. Don't you know? Can't really lie your way out of something if it is on tape.
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Boy, it's so unfair for them to potentially be held accountable for their actions while on-duty
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Cops are heroes with very few bad eggs that they themselves discipline, stop being a cop hater!
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tremain07 posted...

Cops are heroes with very few bad eggs that they themselves discipline, stop being a cop hater!

There's nothing inherently heroic about being a cop. It's a job; it's not like they're serving out of the kindness of their hearts
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0AbsoluteZero0 posted...

tremain07 posted...

Cops are heroes with very few bad eggs that they themselves discipline, stop being a cop hater!

There's nothing inherently heroic about being a cop. It's a job; it's not like they're serving out of the kindness of their hearts

Well, it's a call to service for many. There is that element (since most people wouldn't want to deal with potentially dangerous people on a daily basis so we rely on the few who are willing to so the rest of us can feel safe).

It's forgetting your oath that has people concerned and why we need transparency. If we could always trust that the police have everyone's best interests at heart then we wouldn't have to assume the worst and hope for the best.
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I'm completely in favor of bodycams. Would have ended up shattering the narrative of BLM in every police shooting they rioted over.
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Those are St. Louis cops. Most cops prefer them.
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Body cams are a definite plus, the only people that have to be worried about them are the ones that shouldn't be cops to begin with...
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The sad thing about body cams is we've seen several videos of cops commuting murder and other atrocities, yet they never get convicted even with video evidence.

The only people getting screwed here are the citizens, not the cops.
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would you want a cam on you all day every day while you work?

you probably wouldn't. I can see why they wouldn't like it, but i think its the right thing to do, for obvious reasons

The Admiral posted...

I'm completely in favor of bodycams. Would have ended up shattering the narrative of BLM in every police shooting they rioted over.

kinda. seriously.

imagine if the guy who shot Michael Brown had literally video evidence that he was physically assaulted?
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Fam_Fam posted...

would you want a cam on you all day every day while you work?

Does your job involve potentially wrestling people to the ground or drawing a firearm?

I doubt it.
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Solid Sonic posted...

Fam_Fam posted...

would you want a cam on you all day every day while you work?

Does your job involve potentially wrestling people to the ground or drawing a firearm?

I doubt it.

what's your point?

i agree that they should wear them. I'm saying its pretty normal for most people not to want to be watched all day at work.

TheBiggerWiggle posted...

The sad thing about body cams is we've seen several videos of cops commuting murder and other atrocities, yet they never get convicted even with video evidence.

The only people getting screwed here are the citizens, not the cops.

Whatever happened to those cops caught planting drugs because of their bodycams? It really makes one wonder just how dirty they are when they remembered to turn those things off or "mysteriously malfunction" them.
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Those poor cops being held accountable for their actions. What's an innocent body or two in comparison to years of service.
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Fam_Fam posted...

would you want a cam on you all day every day while you work?

i already had cctv cam watching me on my workplace all day.
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Fam_Fam posted...

Solid Sonic posted...

Fam_Fam posted...

would you want a cam on you all day every day while you work?

Does your job involve potentially wrestling people to the ground or drawing a firearm?

I doubt it.

what's your point?

i agree that they should wear them. I'm saying its pretty normal for most people not to want to be watched all day at work.

In all fairness, lots of people are watched with cameras every day at work. For example, bank workers, fast food workers, etc. Cops wouldn't necessarily be special in that regard other than the camera being directly on their body.
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Fam_Fam posted...

Solid Sonic posted...

Fam_Fam posted...

would you want a cam on you all day every day while you work?

Does your job involve potentially wrestling people to the ground or drawing a firearm?

I doubt it.

what's your point?

i agree that they should wear them. I'm saying its pretty normal for most people not to want to be watched all day at work.

Yeah, but it's not like their camera footage is being actively monitored. It's just there for review if an incident occurs
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I'm saying it's a matter of holding people who need to use physical or lethal force against other civilians to a higher standard.

No one NEEDS to watch me do my job on a regular basis because there aren't grave consequences that can result from a lack of accountability.

I won't even say "it sucks but we have to do it" because ideally the police officers who do their job diligently and competently would not have a problem with knowing that those who do not can't slip through the cracks. More than anyone the good eggs would want their ranks scoured of unfit cops because it earns public respect and trust, which allows them to do their job correctly and more effectively.
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The Admiral posted...

I'm completely in favor of bodycams. Would have ended up shattering the narrative of BLM in every police shooting they rioted over.

While this isn't 100% true, it definitely would have removed a lot of the speculative doubt that is ever present in these debates.
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Fam_Fam posted...

would you want a cam on you all day every day while you work?

Yeah, why would I care?
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They absolutely are.

Body cams for police is a terrible idea with no gain. People just like it because it "feels" like a solution. So it gets armchair support.

Research in the US and Western Europe has shown that civilians are much more aggressive towards cops when they have body cams. It puts both them and the cop in danger.

At the same time, it costs a lot of tax payer to insert the cams.

And there are negligable examples ever of police bodycam footage being relevant in court cases. If a cop is being taken to ask for beating someone up, whether or not the incident was caught on body cam has miminal effect on the case as there would be clear evidence elsewhere if he did such a thing.

All it does is fill your youtube and social media feeds so you can judge people.

Which has a knock on negative effect. What happens? Good cops get caught either out of context or in tense situations and get railed.

What do bad cops do? Either turn off their cams or do corrupt things outside of view.


Tl;dr

Body cams cost money
They put people in danger + make them violent
They do not help or protect anyone
They do not curb corrupt police
They tarnish the career of good police.

There is no objective benefit whatsoever to mandatory police body cams. It's an awful awful idea on every pragmatic level. It just "sounds" good

No one who defends the practice will ever address these points because reality is unplesant while emotion is fun.
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Twin3Turbo posted...

Fam_Fam posted...

Solid Sonic posted...

Fam_Fam posted...

would you want a cam on you all day every day while you work?

Does your job involve potentially wrestling people to the ground or drawing a firearm?

I doubt it.

what's your point?

i agree that they should wear them. I'm saying its pretty normal for most people not to want to be watched all day at work.

In all fairness, lots of people are watched with cameras every day at work. For example, bank workers, fast food workers, etc. Cops wouldn't necessarily be special in that regard other than the camera being directly on their body.

This. Not only am I recorded literally at all times on the job except for the bathroom, any time the door opens it's timestamped at building security, and you have to scan a badge to go in, so you can easily see exactly when I entered and left or if I'm robbing the breakroom or whatever.
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ChromaticAngel posted...

This. Not only am I recorded literally at all times on the job except for the bathroom, any time the door opens it's timestamped at building security, and you have to scan a badge to go in, so you can easily see exactly when I entered and left or if I'm robbing the breakroom or whatever.

This is incomparable.

It's like going "I wear a seatbelt when I drive my car so cops should wear a tight harness around their necks when they sleep."

I see the weak link but the scenarios are different.
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UnfairRepresent posted...

ChromaticAngel posted...

This. Not only am I recorded literally at all times on the job except for the bathroom, any time the door opens it's timestamped at building security, and you have to scan a badge to go in, so you can easily see exactly when I entered and left or if I'm robbing the breakroom or whatever.

This is incomparable.

It's like going "I wear a seatbelt when I drive my car so cops should wear a tight harness around their necks when they sleep."

I see the weak link but the scenarios are different.

You should realize your contrarian gimmick is only effective when your argument makes any sense. Step your game up, UR
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Fam_Fam posted...

what's your point?

His point is the comparison is shoddy at best.
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No one fall for the UR bait. Good lord that was low effort.
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TheBiggerWiggle posted...

No one fall for the UR bait. Good lord that was low effort.

0AbsoluteZero0 posted...

You should realize your contrarian gimmick is only effective when your argument makes any sense. Step your game up, UR

There is no objective benefit whatsoever to mandatory police body cams. It's an awful awful idea on every pragmatic level. It just "sounds" good

No one who defends the practice will ever address these points because reality is unplesant while emotion is fun.

Called it.

No actual argument or point. Just "I like my emotion so I will insult you."

There is no pragmatic gain whatsoever to mandatory police body cams.

Purely wasting money, endangering cops, endangering civilians and aiding corrupt cops. It's a purely bad move.
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Not having bodycams is unfair to everyone else.
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UnfairRepresent posted...

Research in the US and Western Europe has shown that civilians are much more aggressive towards cops when they have body cams. It puts both them and the cop in danger.

Can I get a link to this?
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There are a few videos showing how unreliable body cams can be, not that are unfair, but they just don't show the whole picture and what you see can be vastly different than what actually happened.
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itachi15243 posted...

UnfairRepresent posted...

Research in the US and Western Europe has shown that civilians are much more aggressive towards cops when they have body cams. It puts both them and the cop in danger.

Can I get a link to this?

Most of it is buried in .gov websites but you can find several sources talking about it:

https://techcrunch.com/2016/05/17/study-finds-that-police-body-cameras-may-increase-assaults-if-used-improperly/
http://www.crim.cam.ac.uk/alumni/theses/Darren%20Henstock.pdf
https://www.cam.ac.uk/sites/www.cam.ac.uk/files/article.pdf
https://gizmodo.com/cops-wearing-body-cameras-are-more-likely-to-be-assault-1777104650
https://www.fastcompany.com/3061935/police-body-cameras-livestreaming-face-recognition-and-ai

The long and sort of it is they have tested police with Body cams and police without body cams in parts of the US, UK and Western Europe and the results are pretty consistent across the board. Civilians are more angry, insulting, aggressive (verbally and physically) and dangerous to towards cops with cams than those without.

Equally what is universial across the board is well is that body cam footage is negliable across courts. The idea of a cop going off on one and beating the shit out of a 13 year old girl, then getting anyway with it until the court slaps the body cam footage on the table and goes "Look at the truuuuuuuuth!" is pure fantasy.

That's not how courts or justice systems work. It's close to impossible to imagine a scenario where the only damning piece of evidence is a body cam. And if such a scenario where to even exist a corrupt cop wuld easily dispose of the cam.

It's a whack idea yo. The solution to life's problems isn't "Let's do what they did in 1984, that'll be the ticket!"
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they probably dont want their donut count on video
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UnfairRepresent posted...

https://techcrunch.com/2016/05/17/study-finds-that-police-body-cameras-may-increase-assaults-if-used-improperly/

This seems more like an analysis than factual citation. It's just a study of "what ifs".
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LightHawKnight posted...

There are a few videos showing how unreliable body cams can be, not that are unfair, but they just don't show the whole picture and what you see can be vastly different than what actually happened.

That's not unique to any camera, but having more than one angle or even just the only angle is still more important than worrying about the imperfections.
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The Admiral posted...

I'm completely in favor of bodycams. Would have ended up shattering the narrative of BLM in every police shooting they rioted over.

Except Philando Castille.
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Kineth posted...

That's not unique to any camera, but having more than one angle or even just the only angle is still more important than worrying about the imperfections

Cool so will you be willing to fund all these cameras so they can get all the ang-


Oh no wait you want tax payers to do that, obviously.

And those pesky "imperfections" such as the lack of any point to any of this and the fact it puts people in danger for no gain.
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Kineth posted...

The Admiral posted...

I'm completely in favor of bodycams. Would have ended up shattering the narrative of BLM in every police shooting they rioted over.

While this isn't 100% true, it definitely would have removed a lot of the speculative doubt that is ever present in these debates.

If Ferguson had them, BLM literally wouldn't exist.
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Fam_Fam posted...

would you want a cam on you all day every day while you work?

you probably wouldn't. I can see why they wouldn't like it, but i think its the right thing to do, for obvious reasons

Yeah cause I'm sure most of us work jobs that deal with literal life and death situations. Such a stupid argument.
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0AbsoluteZero0 posted...

tremain07 posted...

Cops are heroes with very few bad eggs that they themselves discipline, stop being a cop hater!

There's nothing inherently heroic about being a cop. It's a job; it's not like they're serving out of the kindness of their hearts

Sounded like an airliner went over your head with the intensity of that WHOOSH.
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darkjedilink posted...

Kineth posted...

The Admiral posted...

I'm completely in favor of bodycams. Would have ended up shattering the narrative of BLM in every police shooting they rioted over.

While this isn't 100% true, it definitely would have removed a lot of the speculative doubt that is ever present in these debates.

If Ferguson had them, BLM literally wouldn't exist.

Interesting side note on this BTW, often "protesting" groups request police don't bring body cams to their protests to "Protect First Amendment-related Activity"

"You need a body cam at all times even though it costs a fortune and endangers you.... Oh but I am doing something potentially sketchy you can just put that cam down"

Says it all there really.
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UnfairRepresent posted...

darkjedilink posted...

Kineth posted...

The Admiral posted...

I'm completely in favor of bodycams. Would have ended up shattering the narrative of BLM in every police shooting they rioted over.

While this isn't 100% true, it definitely would have removed a lot of the speculative doubt that is ever present in these debates.

If Ferguson had them, BLM literally wouldn't exist.

Interesting side note on this BTW, often "protesting" groups request police don't bring body cams to their protests to "Protect First Amendment-related Activity"

"You need a body cam at all times even though it costs a fortune and endangers you.... Oh but I am doing something potentially sketchy you can just put that cam down"

Says it all there really.

Remember Mizzou's hunger strike, when the Journalism professor called for press, then demanded that the one guy with a camera leave, and threatened him with violence for practicing his First Amendment rights?
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I wouldn't say they're unfair, but they're not needed and a waste of money. If I want to know the details of what transpired, then I'll look at the officer's written statements instead of trying to make a judgement based off of potentially shaky/grain and ultimately unreliable video footage.
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DifferentialEquation posted...

I wouldn't say they're unfair, but they're not needed and a waste of money. If I want to know the details of what transpired, then I'll look at the officer's written statements instead of trying to make a judgement based off of potentially shaky/grain and ultimately unreliable video footage.

But what's the corroboration?
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I know it's corny, but with great power comes great responsibility.
That should also mean great accountability.

Solid Sonic posted...

DifferentialEquation posted...

I wouldn't say they're unfair, but they're not needed and a waste of money. If I want to know the details of what transpired, then I'll look at the officer's written statements instead of trying to make a judgement based off of potentially shaky/grain and ultimately unreliable video footage.

But what's the corroboration?

Police officers take oaths to protect and serve their community. That's all the corroboration I need for their testimonies.
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DifferentialEquation posted...

Solid Sonic posted...

DifferentialEquation posted...

I wouldn't say they're unfair, but they're not needed and a waste of money. If I want to know the details of what transpired, then I'll look at the officer's written statements instead of trying to make a judgement based off of potentially shaky/grain and ultimately unreliable video footage.

But what's the corroboration?

Police officers take oaths to protect and serve their community. That's all the corroboration I need for their testimonies.

lol
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All it does is fill your youtube and social media feeds so you can judge people.

This is secretly a very important rage. Public outcry is fickle, but it can move mountains.
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