Board 8 > Politics Containment Topic 136: Mother Teresa's a bitch

(+) Yeah! (+)

Corrik, is there a specific reason why you're such a coward that you need to hide behind the men and women who fought and died for our country just because you're filled with hatred?
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Not_an_Owl posted...

Utilizing unquestioning worship of the military to silence all dissent is some straight-up fascist shit.

How is it silencing anything? Use a different way to make yourself heard not at the expense of the flag?

Do you think anyone is debating social injustice right now? No. They are debating patroitism or lack thereof in the NFL / disrespect to veterans and the country.

This avenue has just created controversy that will drown out the actual supposed message it was done for because it was a poorly picked avenue to do it.
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Inviso posted...

Corrik, is there a specific reason why you're such a coward that you need to hide behind the men and women who fought and died for our country just because you're filled with hatred?

What?
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Apparently I need to link this again?

https://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/8-gamefaqs-contests/75809456
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Are you people seriously not capable of stopping yourself from engaging him?
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redrocket_pub posted...

Apparently I need to link this again?

https://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/8-gamefaqs-contests/75809456

I am glad for your 4 or so people who don't care. Are we allowed to post pictures from facebook? I will post over 5,000 comments speaking out against it from veterans and people in families who lost loved ones in the military. And, that is just from a local pittsburgh article.
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I mean, if you hate the idea of black people speaking up for their rights (not farfetched, given your support of the confederacy), the least you could do is be open about it, rather than defaming the military by claiming they're a bunch of sheltered snowflakes that take offense to every little thing, like you do.
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Inviso posted...

I mean, if you hate the idea of black people speaking up for their rights (not farfetched, given your support of the confederacy), the least you could do is be open about it, rather than defaming the military by claiming they're a bunch of sheltered snowflakes that take offense to every little thing, like you do.

What in the literal fuck are you talking about?

My grandfather fought in WW2 in the airforxe. My father fought in Desert storm with the marines. My aunt was in the army. My other aunts husband died in Germany while serving in the army. My Mothers side grandfather fought in the army and my mothers uncle fought in the army during vietnam.

When they tell me they will not watch a steelers (those alive) today who they have supported for how many years because they are disgraced at how they disrespected them and their loved ones sacrifice today, I take it serious.

Your comments are disgraceful. Truly.
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LapisLazuli posted...

Are you people seriously not capable of stopping yourself from engaging him?

I'm sorry, but the comma splices are too painful. They're like hands reaching out at the abyss, fingers stabbing at my eyes; I cannot help but feel that someone must cut that evil off at the wrist.
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dowolf posted...

LapisLazuli posted...

Are you people seriously not capable of stopping yourself from engaging him?

I'm sorry, but the comma splices are too painful. They're like hands reaching out at the abyss, fingers stabbing at my eyes; I cannot help but feel that someone must cut that evil off at the wrist.

I'm as infuriated but Corrik's 3rd grade typing level as the next guy, but it's not an excuse.
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Oh, so now you're claiming your own family are a bunch of snowflakes. Real nice, Corrik. I can't believe you'd talk shit about the military and your own family by trying to claim they're the same kind of whiny crybabies offended by free speech that you are. I bet they voted for Hillary Clinton too, huh? Disgusting.
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LapisLazuli posted...

dowolf posted...

LapisLazuli posted...

Are you people seriously not capable of stopping yourself from engaging him?

I'm sorry, but the comma splices are too painful. They're like hands reaching out at the abyss, fingers stabbing at my eyes; I cannot help but feel that someone must cut that evil off at the wrist.

I'm as infuriated but Corrik's 3rd grade typing level as the next guy, but it's not an excuse.

Might not want to typo when making such a dumb statement.
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And I know a lot of people who've served, too, including my grandfather. With the exception of my grandfather, who is kinda racist, none of them think the whole kneeling thing is about disrespecting the country -- and even my grandfather doesn't manage to think it's somehow about him or the military.

Therefore, the only possible, rational conclusion is that you are more racist than my grandfather. Having never met him, you probably do not realize the sheer magnitude of that statement, but rest assured it is extraordinary.
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My one for your 500, not losing sleep.
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Inviso posted...

Oh, so now you're claiming your own family are a bunch of snowflakes. Real nice, Corrik. I can't believe you'd talk shit about the military and your own family by trying to claim they're the same kind of whiny crybabies offended by free speech that you are. I bet they voted for Hillary Clinton too, huh? Disgusting.

You have to be on drugs or something is definitely loose upstairs. Ulti doesn't even post shit as stupid as this.
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dowolf posted...

And I know a lot of people who've served, too, including my grandfather. With the exception of my grandfather, who is kinda racist, none of them think the whole kneeling thing is about disrespecting the country -- and even my grandfather doesn't manage to think it's somehow about him or the military.

Therefore, the only possible, rational conclusion is that you are more racist than my grandfather. Having never met him, you probably do not realize the sheer magnitude of that statement, but rest assured it is extraordinary.

You seriously just said people who are upset if people disrespect a flag that stands for your country and symbolizes the sacrifice soldiers make for your country are racist.

You cannot make up the posts you guys make. Holy fuck.
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Board 8 liberals 101.

If someone says something you don't want to hear, call them Racist!

2 times in a damn minute. Yinz are seriously so predictable. There is absolutely no substance behind what you say. The literal go to is "you are racist!". "You are a bigot!". Nananana.

Just wow.
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Corrik posted...

Mythiot posted...

Yeah, I've seen that copypasta. It's absurd to say that if you criticize America or the national anthem, you're spitting on the troops, some of which are in my family. The protests have nothing to do with the military, and using soldiers as a political prop to silence opinions you disagree with seems much more disrespectful to them.

I think you do not know what the actual flag stands for and would love to see you come and talk to a room full of veterans and state that and see the response.

You would have to pick one hell of a cherry picked room to get a response of not caring as you think.

LOL. That's all I'm going to say about that.
If you bother to step outside your echo chamber, you'd find that veterans have more diverse opinions on the matter than you think. You know, since they're people and not political props.

Mythiot posted...

Corrik posted...

Mythiot posted...

Yeah, I've seen that copypasta. It's absurd to say that if you criticize America or the national anthem, you're spitting on the troops, some of which are in my family. The protests have nothing to do with the military, and using soldiers as a political prop to silence opinions you disagree with seems much more disrespectful to them.

I think you do not know what the actual flag stands for and would love to see you come and talk to a room full of veterans and state that and see the response.

You would have to pick one hell of a cherry picked room to get a response of not caring as you think.

LOL. That's all I'm going to say about that.
If you bother to step outside your echo chamber, you'd find that veterans have more diverse opinions on the matter than you think. You know, since they're people and not political props.

Sure the outrage that has sprung up is just all a small echo chamber as you post in one.

That said, I am going to not get riled up because clearly a couple of people are trying to purposely rile me up with absolute nonsense posts (trolling) who would cry to the blue heavens if I made a single comment back to them about themselves.

But, in the spirit of the topic, someone posted a meme on facebook that I can't help but think it is fucked up but also pretty funny.


It says when "taking a knee" meant taking a knee and is a picture of Tonya Harding and Nancy Kerrigan sitting next to each other. Oh man, whoever made that has one sick sense of humor lol.
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Corrik posted...

Yinz

This is why Pittsburgh Steelers and Pittsburgh citizens are experiencing a crisis of pointlessness.
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it's kinda funny, going from GoT over the summer, where bending the knee meant subservience, to the NFL, where bending the knee is somehow worse than the middle finger.
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Like I would be right there beside you, if they were actually disrespecting the flag.

But they aren't. That's the most baffling thing about this entire debate -- they aren't disrespecting the flag.
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Has anyone pointed out that the long "from a vet" post was actually from Ted Nugent.

You know, the guy accused of dodging the draft.
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DeepsPraw posted...

BowserCuffs posted...

I just think that the difference between pure capitalism and pure communism is, simply put, different roads to fascism.

uhh communism is the direct, literal opposite of fascism. If you think Stalin was fascist, then the educational system and society in general has failed you tremendously.

Sorry - what I meant to say was "Tyranny", not fascism.

I've had a long day today and I went too long without eating or drinking anything
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To be honest, a national anthem at the start of a football game is ridiculous in the first place. There are lots of gatherings of people to enjoy "freedom" of this country that don't have the national anthem, so why there?

Honestly I feel it's disrespectful to the national anthem to play it at games in the first place. This is literally a game where people yell, spit, swear and sometimes try to hurt one another. How exactly does playing the national anthem before this mean anything at all? Why not play it before large music concerts, or at like Comic Con? I mean there really is no point, and there's no sense in getting mad at it either if people don't want to stand at attention or whatever. It's interesting that people want to protect the rights of people who march down the street with racism (which by the way, is a direct attack on the Declaration of Independence) but not those who want to take a knee. Pick one side of the boat and stay on it.
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I find it pretty hard to believe all of these older vets are actually getting mad if they weren't pro-Trump already, anyway. Players standing for the anthem would still be a new thing to them. Hell, it still felt new to me. So to get mad for players staying in the lockerroom when... That's what they ALL did prior to 2009, just seems odd, since they'd likely remember that.
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Eddv posted...

I literally dont understand why anyone gives a shit about this.

I remember growing up in Iraq and being required to sing songs praising Saddam Hussein. These displays of "highly encouraged" patriotism have always struck me as a Lite version of that old country propoganda. Silly at best and dangerous at worst.
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https://www.bbc.com/news/amp/world-us-canada-41382492

I won't speak to the killer's motives, but we'll never know thanks to the idiot trying this crap in a state that allows citizens to defend themselves.

I can guarantee our traitorous media will not give this story the attention it deserves, because they do NOT want you hearing stories about legal firearms frustrating crime. Had this happened in New Jersey, New York, or a night club in Florida, this idiot would have been attacking fully disarmed people. But it happened in Tennessee, so the damage was very minimal comparatively. It sucks that someone was shot, but it could have been a LOT worse. That usher is a hero.

CaptainOfCrush posted...

Eddv posted...

I literally dont understand why anyone gives a shit about this.

I remember growing up in Iraq and being required to sing songs praising Saddam Hussein. These displays of "highly encouraged" patriotism have always struck me as a Lite version of that old country propoganda. Silly at best and dangerous at worst.

Ick. I'm all for singing songs in honor of your country, but for the head of state? Especially a scumbag like Hussein? Not in my country!

Oh wait, this was in my country.
http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/trump-praises-church-choirs-make-america-great-song/story?id=48431939

dowolf posted...

Like I would be right there beside you, if they were actually disrespecting the flag.

But they aren't. That's the most baffling thing about this entire debate -- they aren't disrespecting the flag.

i do find this rather odd, caught it myself earlier but the entire time i've heard this stuff argued it's always "flag."

at some point in the conversation disrespecting the national anthem, a song of the nation, and disrespecting the flag, the symbol of the nation, became synonymous. i totally get the latter's instant connection but the former, not so much. that's a lot weirder to me and kudos to whoever programmed that because i don't think most can tell the difference between them, it's all just "America" now.
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LapisLazuli posted...

https://twitter.com/ScottyLiterati/status/911492693771120640

Players standing for the anthem only started 8 years ago as a marketing strategy the NFL was PAID by the government to do from the military recruitment budget? Seems like a significant factor in this.

I've heard this argument before and...I don't wanna say I doubt its validity, but some aspects weren't my experience. Our high school football team and our opponents stood for all their games (basketball did too) and I graduated years before this. I get that is high school and not professional, but that experience of mine was a fact.

From there, I felt like professional teams were already having players out there for the national anthem at that time. Am I really wrong here? If so, okay, but that seems weird to me to see kids leading this tradition before the pros (neverminding the military connection here that wanted pros to influence kids to enlist).

[[Also just wanted to add that the national anthem is closely tied to a favorite memory of mine when I became one of the first three football team captains in my high school's history. The song became meaningful to me then in a way it wasn't before, not gonna lie. While I cannot fully grasp the military meaning personally despite having military in my family, I can get that the song can be emotional for people. Being emotional is not enough to say don't allow a knee to speak against injustice, but I can get that connection feeling sensitive.]]
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UltiXX posted...

https://www.bbc.com/news/amp/world-us-canada-41382492

I won't speak to the killer's motives, but we'll never know thanks to the idiot trying this crap in a state that allows citizens to defend themselves.

I can guarantee our traitorous media will not give this story the attention it deserves, because they do NOT want you hearing stories about legal firearms frustrating crime. Had this happened in New Jersey, New York, or a night club in Florida, this idiot would have been attacking fully disarmed people. But it happened in Tennessee, so the damage was very minimal comparatively. It sucks that someone was shot, but it could have been a LOT worse. That usher is a hero.

this doesn't really relate to legal firearms frustrating crime. The usher was unarmed and struggled with the shooter and during the struggle the shooter to shot himself. He could have done that in any state.

afterward, the usher went out to his car and got his own gun to stand guard over the guy, but the dude was already incapacitated at this poin

edit: also, we could totally find out the shooter's motive because the gunshot wasn't fatal

did you read like six random words in the article and nothing else?
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Did anyone post about the unarmed teacher taking out the armed gunman?
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So, this update on the Antioch shooting is an Ulti link (which Ulti hasn't read, of course) but it deserves repeating:

https://www.bbc.com/news/amp/world-us-canada-41382492

The killer was subdued by an unarmed usher (he had a gun in his car, but not on his person.) Repeat, unarmed man attacks armed shooter, successfully. That fellow deserves accolades.

Edit: Beaten to it, I see. Well, still deserves repeating.
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I have never been to a sporting event from 4 years old and up that did not have the national anthem played before a match besides baseball and soccer because they were not played in stadiums or gymnasiums.

Football, wrestling, basketball all did.
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MalcolmMasher posted...

Edit: Beaten to it, I see. Well, still deserves repeating.

No, this is another case. I was talking about the unarmed teacher in Illinois.
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/teacher-school-took-down-gunman-recently-trained-active-shooters/
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Dancedreamer: My edit was acknowledging MoogleKupo141's post, not yours. I hadn't heard anything about the Illinois shooting. (Which is a little disconcerting, 'cause Mattoon is four hours away.)
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CaptainOfCrush posted...

Eddv posted...

I literally dont understand why anyone gives a shit about this.

I remember growing up in Iraq and being required to sing songs praising Saddam Hussein. These displays of "highly encouraged" patriotism have always struck me as a Lite version of that old country propoganda. Silly at best and dangerous at worst.

Oh man, neat/weird/awkward. Would you be comfortable sharing something you remember from some of these songs?
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it's only three hours from me and I hadn't heard about it either
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Wanglicious posted...

dowolf posted...

Like I would be right there beside you, if they were actually disrespecting the flag.

But they aren't. That's the most baffling thing about this entire debate -- they aren't disrespecting the flag.

i do find this rather odd, caught it myself earlier but the entire time i've heard this stuff argued it's always "flag."

at some point in the conversation disrespecting the national anthem, a song of the nation, and disrespecting the flag, the symbol of the nation, became synonymous. i totally get the latter's instant connection but the former, not so much. that's a lot weirder to me and kudos to whoever programmed that because i don't think most can tell the difference between them, it's all just "America" now.

you're missing the point.

the point is that the idea that kneeling is somehow the rudest thing a person can do is simply absurd.
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well yeah. kneeling being viewed as protest is just plain weird considering it's generally a sign of submission.
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And to clarify, I don't think anybody's questioning how many sports have long before 2009 featured the national anthem each game. To me, the question is if players were really not on the field/court and standing for anthems before 2009 when the military paid the pros to be out there for it. My high school teams were out there standing in 2004 and earlier, and I thought the pros were too during this time.
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let's just call it what it is.
the casual revolution of 2007 made the national anthem go from just baseball games to all sporting events.

</gimmick infringement>


...though i would expect an uptick post-9/11, in seriousness.
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People kneeling: "we are doing this to protest X"


Other people: OMG THEY ARE INSULTING Y
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HaRRicH posted...

Oh man, neat/weird/awkward. Would you be comfortable sharing something you remember from some of these songs?

It was honestly so long ago that the memories are very fuzzy, and it wasn't something I did for a long while (I was only in school there for preschool and maaaybe a bit of kindergarten, though that does illuminate how early they rolled out the indoctrination machine). I remember them being simple songs praising Saddam that we'd mainly sing on the school bus.

Even though we fled when I was five, I still have a collection of memories from living in late 1980s/early 1990s Iraq if anyone is interested in a child's perspective living under a regime most people would consider totalitarian. I've always been comfortable sharing but I've always had the impression that no one here really cared to hear it.
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I'd definitely be interested to hear it
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Mr Lasastryke posted...

yeah, at least in the netherlands conservatives = right, liberals = right, progressives = left and socialists = left (to put it simply).

found that confusing when i first learned the english meaning of these words. conservatives = right, progressives = left, socialists = left, liberals = ...also left? three words for the same thing? really?

It's an American thing, not an English thing. I'm British, political liberalism as a movement was basically invented in the UK, and our liberals are centrists - socially and economically liberal. Socially in greater civil liberties, economically in less government involvement. They are not especially left wing or right wing, and the term is not used that way. In America there is no economic left, so the liberals are as left wing as America goes. Hence the confusion of the term.

BowserCuffs posted...

I'm not sure where I fall in the political spectrum of the left, then.

What I want is social progress, economic progress, scientific progress, and environmental progress, so I guess that makes me a "progressive"? Meh, let me sort of flesh it out.

Economic progress meaning that everyone in the US has access to health care, food, shelter, and necessities, and that the power of economic movement depends on the lower and middle class. I'm not opposed to the rich existing - I'm no pure socialist or communist or whatever, I just think that the difference between pure capitalism and pure communism is, simply put, different roads to fascism. No extreme philosophy functions when put to the test. That is why we must be willing to try different things until we can figure out what works. Insisting that our current capitalism is working even as people are starving in the streets, homeless, is turning a blind eye to criticism and flaws in a misguided stubbornness.

(Again - I am not opposed to capitalism in moderation, and I think there are many benefits to it. But I am not a "capitalist" anymore than I am a "socialist", and I am definitely no communist.)

Social progress, of course, means breaking down the walls that divide us as people - and in part, that means learning to tolerate things we don't like about other people. This is going to be tough because hate from one side inspires hate from the other side and both things have to be resolved. This is an idealism and one that I know will likely never be reached, but it is in the reaching that we grow as a species. (One of the important things for this, in my opinion, is being open to making mistakes and being open to learning from mistakes.)

Scientific progress is one of those things everyone believes they support, to a degree. And who am I to say they're wrong? Other than the part that the scientific progress requires an open mind, both towards success and failure. Science, by nature, has to change its mind as new data emerges, or it isn't science, it's pseudoscience.

Environmental progress means improving harmony between human society and the world around us. Responsible usage of the environment, reduction of pollution, giving as much as you take... these are important for us as a species. We need nature, not just to survive, but tolive.

Where would all of this idealism put me?

That is centre-left social democracy. Basically what Sanders actually is as opposed to what he says he is.

Also Stalin wasn't a true communist, true communism is no government, and he did indeed undeniably deploy fascist ideology such as devotion to the state, cult of personality, totalitarianism... Stalinism is really it's own thing and in no way opposite to fascism at all.
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Lightning Strikes posted...

That is centre-left social democracy. Basically what Sanders actually is as opposed to what he says he is.

Also Stalin wasn't a true communist, true communism is no government, and he did indeed undeniably deploy fascist ideology such as devotion to the state, cult of personality, totalitarianism... Stalinism is really it's own thing and in no way opposite to fascism at all.

Oh, good to know on both fronts.
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Corrik posted...

Lots of Steelers fan I have seen on facebook in their initial shock are talking about becoming Cowboys fans

Steelers fans are the most dramatic people.
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