Current Events > 47 percent support making public colleges tuition-free, 45 percent oppose

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s0nicfan 09/21/17 2:13:08 PM #51:	emblem boy posted... Anteaterking posted... emblem boy posted... Honest question. Do people generally expect this type of grandfathering(?) Or compensation for a type of similar program that comes into place? I think you could expect a loose sort of grandfathering to help people who currently have student loans, but there's no reason to "pay back" everyone who has ever paid a student loan off. Ya, that I'd be fine with. The argument that those who have paid their college fees should get some type of full refund is weird to me. If taxes lower in a certain area, I've never expected to be paid compensation for when the tax was higher. Not the best analogy I'm sure, but only one I can think of right now. I think the difference here is education is being pitched as a right. If you've been historically deprived of a right, generally the people who were negatively affected tend to seek reparations for being put at a societal disadvantage due to that disadvantage. --- "History Is Much Like An Endless Waltz. The Three Beats Of War, Peace And Revolution Continue On Forever." - Gundam Wing: Endless Waltz <cite>s0nicfan posted [p:887022615] in 47 percent... [t:75799005]...</cite> <quote><cite>emblem boy posted...</cite> <quote><cite>Anteaterking posted...</cite> <quote><cite>emblem boy posted...</cite> <quote> Honest question. Do people generally expect this type of grandfathering(?) Or compensation for a type of similar program that comes into place?</quote> I think you could expect a loose sort of grandfathering to help people who currently have student loans, but there's no reason to "pay back" everyone who has ever paid a student loan off.</quote> Ya, that I'd be fine with. The argument that those who have paid their college fees should get some type of full refund is weird to me. If taxes lower in a certain area, I've never expected to be paid compensation for when the tax was higher. Not the best analogy I'm sure, but only one I can think of right now.</quote> I think the difference here is education is being pitched as a right. If you've been historically deprived of a right, generally the people who were negatively affected tend to seek reparations for being put at a societal disadvantage due to that disadvantage.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
ForestLogic 09/21/17 2:13:47 PM #52:	emblem boy posted... ForestLogic posted... FLUFFYGERM posted... would this include student loan forgiveness for students who already graduated from public universities? This. I will never support people getting free tuition as long as I'm still expected to pay for the one I had in the post. Honest question. Do people generally expect this type of grandfathering(?) Or compensation for a type of similar program that comes into place? How would you feel if you needed a new car, so you financed one that cost $20,000. Then 6 months into your 5 year loan you find out the same dealership you got the car from is giving them away to people for free. You'd have every right to feel duped. That's what its like being a recent college graduate who has loans to pay off right now, while there's a conversation about free tuition being started. Note, I am NOT an advocate of free college. I think it's a bad idea that will accomplish nothing but further devaluing degrees, and dissuade people from trade jobs even more than they are. BUT I don't get to decide if college is free or not. If it becomes a reality, then yes I will absolutely fucking expect that my federal loans should be forgiven because frankly it's horse shit that I need to continue paying for something that is now free, all while the economy is tanking around me in the wake of the free-ness. --- AKA Level 36 ForestWanderer / ObjectiveLogic http://www.poorcouplesfoodguide.com - Pizza Time! <cite>ForestLogic posted [p:887022655] in 47 percent... [t:75799005]...</cite> <quote><cite>emblem boy posted...</cite> <quote><cite>ForestLogic posted...</cite> <quote><cite>FLUFFYGERM posted...</cite> <quote> would this include student loan forgiveness for students who already graduated from public universities?</quote> This. I will never support people getting free tuition as long as I'm still expected to pay for the one I had in the post.</quote> Honest question. Do people generally expect this type of grandfathering(?) Or compensation for a type of similar program that comes into place?</quote> How would you feel if you needed a new car, so you financed one that cost $20,000. Then 6 months into your 5 year loan you find out the same dealership you got the car from is giving them away to people for free. You'd have every right to feel duped. That's what its like being a recent college graduate who has loans to pay off right now, while there's a conversation about free tuition being started. Note, I am NOT an advocate of free college. I think it's a bad idea that will accomplish nothing but further devaluing degrees, and dissuade people from trade jobs even more than they are. BUT I don't get to decide if college is free or not. If it becomes a reality, then yes I will absolutely fucking expect that my federal loans should be forgiven because frankly it's horse shit that I need to continue paying for something that is now free, all while the economy is tanking around me in the wake of the free-ness.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Antifar 09/21/17 2:13:49 PM #53:	s0nicfan posted... Define "free college" here. Do you mean free in-state public colleges or private universities? Because there's a significant difference in cost between the two. Public college. There's not really any suggestion that private universities would be forcibly made tuition-free --- kin to all that throbs <cite>Antifar posted [p:887022659] in 47 percent... [t:75799005]...</cite> <quote><cite>s0nicfan posted...</cite> <quote>Define "free college" here. Do you mean free in-state public colleges or private universities? Because there's a significant difference in cost between the two. </quote> Public college. There's not really any suggestion that private universities would be forcibly made tuition-free</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Annihilated 09/21/17 2:14:19 PM #54:	DoomSwell posted... Did you literately not read the rest of my post? The next freaking line. Because it's false. There are tons of jobs that don't even require a college degree. You would know that if you've ever looked for one before. <cite>Annihilated posted [p:887022690] in 47 percent... [t:75799005]...</cite> <quote><cite>DoomSwell posted...</cite> <quote>Did you literately not read the rest of my post? The next freaking line.</quote> Because it's false. There are tons of jobs that don't even require a college degree. You would know that if you've ever looked for one before.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Balrog0 09/21/17 2:14:36 PM #55:	s0nicfan posted... My point was simply that "military spending" is significantly more than buying tanks and guns. does anyone think otherwise? that doesn't mean we don't overspend on tanks and guns (well, more like planes and ships) though s0nicfan posted... Also, quite a bit of that military spending DOES go to universities. They subcontract out to unis all the time on larger projects. that was exactly my point lol you're saying its not so bad because they do that I'm saying if that's true it would be easy to cut out the middle man R&D is not a huge part of the military budget, either, anyway --- He would make his mark, if not on this tree, then on that wall; if not with teeth and claws, then with penknife and razor. <cite>Balrog0 posted [p:887022704] in 47 percent... [t:75799005]...</cite> <quote><cite>s0nicfan posted...</cite> <quote>My point was simply that "military spending" is significantly more than buying tanks and guns.</quote> does anyone think otherwise? that doesn't mean we don't overspend on tanks and guns (well, more like planes and ships) though <cite>s0nicfan posted...</cite> <quote>Also, quite a bit of that military spending DOES go to universities. They subcontract out to unis all the time on larger projects.</quote> that was exactly my point lol you're saying its not so bad because they do that I'm saying if that's true it would be easy to cut out the middle man R&D is not a huge part of the military budget, either, anyway</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
FLUFFYGERM 09/21/17 2:14:54 PM #56:	byron posted... FLUFFYGERM posted... byron posted... FLUFFYGERM posted... byron posted... FLUFFYGERM posted... shmirlywhirl posted... I have a 6 figure income and I wouldn't mind paying higher taxes if it meant more people went to university (if that's the path they want) what about the people who do mind What about the people who don't want to pay for the bloated defense program? move to a country that doesn't receive help from america's military budget? lobby to reduce the military budget? suck it up since military spending is necessary? So if we make public college free then you'll do those same things? absolutely, except i don't think public college being free is a necessity Defense spending is necessary but I don't think how much we spend is necessary. how much would you say is necessary <cite>FLUFFYGERM posted [p:887022721] in 47 percent... [t:75799005]...</cite> <quote><cite>byron posted...</cite> <quote><cite>FLUFFYGERM posted...</cite> <quote><cite>byron posted...</cite> <quote><cite>FLUFFYGERM posted...</cite> <quote><cite>byron posted...</cite> <quote><cite>FLUFFYGERM posted...</cite> <quote><cite>shmirlywhirl posted...</cite> <quote>I have a 6 figure income and I wouldn't mind paying higher taxes if it meant more people went to university (if that's the path they want)</quote> what about the people who do mind</quote> What about the people who don't want to pay for the bloated defense program?</quote> move to a country that doesn't receive help from america's military budget? lobby to reduce the military budget? suck it up since military spending is necessary?</quote> So if we make public college free then you'll do those same things?</quote> absolutely, except i don't think public college being free is a necessity</quote> Defense spending is necessary but I don't think how much we spend is necessary.</quote> how much would you say is necessary</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Balrog0 09/21/17 2:15:11 PM #57:	Antifar posted... s0nicfan posted... Define "free college" here. Do you mean free in-state public colleges or private universities? Because there's a significant difference in cost between the two. Public college. There's not really any suggestion that private universities would be forcibly made tuition-free are there any estimates on what that could cost? --- He would make his mark, if not on this tree, then on that wall; if not with teeth and claws, then with penknife and razor. <cite>Balrog0 posted [p:887022742] in 47 percent... [t:75799005]...</cite> <quote><cite>Antifar posted...</cite> <quote><cite>s0nicfan posted...</cite> <quote>Define "free college" here. Do you mean free in-state public colleges or private universities? Because there's a significant difference in cost between the two. </quote> Public college. There's not really any suggestion that private universities would be forcibly made tuition-free</quote> are there any estimates on what that could cost?</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Paragon21XX 09/21/17 2:16:41 PM #58:	Not until there is a mandatory Generalized Occupational Aptitude Test to decide which field (and major) a person shall study for. --- Hmm... <cite>Paragon21XX posted [p:887022818] in 47 percent... [t:75799005]...</cite> <quote>Not until there is a mandatory Generalized Occupational Aptitude Test to decide which field (and major) a person shall study for.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
s0nicfan 09/21/17 2:18:59 PM #59:	Antifar posted... s0nicfan posted... Define "free college" here. Do you mean free in-state public colleges or private universities? Because there's a significant difference in cost between the two. Public college. There's not really any suggestion that private universities would be forcibly made tuition-free True, nobody is suggesting private universities be forcibly made tuition free, but "free in-state public college for all" is significantly different than "free college for all" and I think it's important that distinction be made. --- "History Is Much Like An Endless Waltz. The Three Beats Of War, Peace And Revolution Continue On Forever." - Gundam Wing: Endless Waltz <cite>s0nicfan posted [p:887022965] in 47 percent... [t:75799005]...</cite> <quote><cite>Antifar posted...</cite> <quote><cite>s0nicfan posted...</cite> <quote>Define "free college" here. Do you mean free in-state public colleges or private universities? Because there's a significant difference in cost between the two. </quote> Public college. There's not really any suggestion that private universities would be forcibly made tuition-free</quote> True, nobody is suggesting private universities be forcibly made tuition free, but "free in-state public college for all" is significantly different than "free college for all" and I think it's important that distinction be made.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Antifar 09/21/17 2:19:21 PM #60:	Balrog0 posted... Antifar posted... s0nicfan posted... Define "free college" here. Do you mean free in-state public colleges or private universities? Because there's a significant difference in cost between the two. Public college. There's not really any suggestion that private universities would be forcibly made tuition-free are there any estimates on what that could cost? https://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2014/01/heres-exactly-how-much-the-government-would-have-to-spend-to-make-public-college-tuition-free/282803/ A mere $62.6 billion dollars! According to new Department of Education data, that's how much tuition public colleges collected from undergraduates in 2012 across the entire United States. And I'm not being facetious with the word mere, either. The New America Foundation says that the federal government spent a whole $69 billion in 2013 on its hodgepodge of financial aid programs, such as Pell Grants for low-income students, tax breaks, work study funding. And that doesn't even include loans I've also seen the figure $47 billion floating around, but not sure where that comes from. --- kin to all that throbs <cite>Antifar posted [p:887022985] in 47 percent... [t:75799005]...</cite> <quote><cite>Balrog0 posted...</cite> <quote><cite>Antifar posted...</cite> <quote><cite>s0nicfan posted...</cite> <quote>Define "free college" here. Do you mean free in-state public colleges or private universities? Because there's a significant difference in cost between the two. </quote> Public college. There's not really any suggestion that private universities would be forcibly made tuition-free</quote> are there any estimates on what that could cost?</quote> https://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2014/01/heres-exactly-how-much-the-government-would-have-to-spend-to-make-public-college-tuition-free/282803/ <quote>A mere $62.6 billion dollars! According to new Department of Education data, that's how much tuition public colleges collected from undergraduates in 2012 across the entire United States. And I'm not being facetious with the word mere, either. The New America Foundation says that the federal government spent a whole $69 billion in 2013 on its hodgepodge of financial aid programs, such as Pell Grants for low-income students, tax breaks, work study funding. And that doesn't even include loans</quote> I've also seen the figure $47 billion floating around, but not sure where that comes from.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
emblem boy 09/21/17 2:19:35 PM #61:	ForestLogic posted... emblem boy posted... ForestLogic posted... FLUFFYGERM posted... would this include student loan forgiveness for students who already graduated from public universities? This. I will never support people getting free tuition as long as I'm still expected to pay for the one I had in the post. Honest question. Do people generally expect this type of grandfathering(?) Or compensation for a type of similar program that comes into place? How would you feel if you needed a new car, so you financed one that cost $20,000. Then 6 months into your 5 year loan you find out the same dealership you got the car from is giving them away to people for free. You'd have every right to feel duped. That's what its like being a recent college graduate who has loans to pay off right now, while there's a conversation about free tuition being started. Note, I am NOT an advocate of free college. I think it's a bad idea that will accomplish nothing but further devaluing degrees, and dissuade people from trade jobs even more than they are. BUT I don't get to decide if college is free or not. If it becomes a reality, then yes I will absolutely fucking expect that my federal loans should be forgiven because frankly it's horse shit that I need to continue paying for something that is now free, all while the economy is tanking around me in the wake of the free-ness. How is that example different than buying something at full price then finding out months later it's on sale at the same store for half off? The argument Sonic makes about it being pushed as a right is better --- Posted with GameRaven 3.2.2 <cite>emblem boy posted [p:887022994] in 47 percent... [t:75799005]...</cite> <quote><cite>ForestLogic posted...</cite> <quote><cite>emblem boy posted...</cite> <quote> <cite>ForestLogic posted...</cite> <quote> <cite>FLUFFYGERM posted...</cite> <quote> would this include student loan forgiveness for students who already graduated from public universities? </quote> This. I will never support people getting free tuition as long as I'm still expected to pay for the one I had in the post. </quote> Honest question. Do people generally expect this type of grandfathering(?) Or compensation for a type of similar program that comes into place?</quote> How would you feel if you needed a new car, so you financed one that cost $20,000. Then 6 months into your 5 year loan you find out the same dealership you got the car from is giving them away to people for free. You'd have every right to feel duped. That's what its like being a recent college graduate who has loans to pay off right now, while there's a conversation about free tuition being started. Note, I am NOT an advocate of free college. I think it's a bad idea that will accomplish nothing but further devaluing degrees, and dissuade people from trade jobs even more than they are. BUT I don't get to decide if college is free or not. If it becomes a reality, then yes I will absolutely fucking expect that my federal loans should be forgiven because frankly it's horse shit that I need to continue paying for something that is now free, all while the economy is tanking around me in the wake of the free-ness.</quote> How is that example different than buying something at full price then finding out months later it's on sale at the same store for half off? The argument Sonic makes about it being pushed as a right is better</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Anteaterking 09/21/17 2:20:18 PM #62:	s0nicfan posted... I think the difference here is education is being pitched as a right. If you've been historically deprived of a right, generally the people who were negatively affected tend to seek reparations for being put at a societal disadvantage due to that disadvantage. What's the societal disadvantage? --- http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b136/Anteaterking/scan00021.jpg http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b136/Anteaterking/scan00021.jpg <cite>Anteaterking posted [p:887023028] in 47 percent... [t:75799005]...</cite> <quote><cite>s0nicfan posted...</cite> <quote>I think the difference here is education is being pitched as a right. If you've been historically deprived of a right, generally the people who were negatively affected tend to seek reparations for being put at a societal disadvantage due to that disadvantage.</quote> What's the societal disadvantage?</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
DoomSwell 09/21/17 2:21:06 PM #63:	Annihilated posted... There are tons of jobs that don't even require a college degree. That number is shrinking everyday with self checkout lanes and fast-food ordering machines. --- http://www.backloggery.com/doomswell <cite>DoomSwell posted [p:887023073] in 47 percent... [t:75799005]...</cite> <quote><cite>Annihilated posted...</cite> <quote>There are tons of jobs that don't even require a college degree.</quote> That number is shrinking everyday with self checkout lanes and fast-food ordering machines.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
s0nicfan 09/21/17 2:21:32 PM #64:	Balrog0 posted... that was exactly my point lol you're saying its not so bad because they do that I'm saying if that's true it would be easy to cut out the middle man R&D is not a huge part of the military budget, either, anyway You're just going to have to believe me on this one, because I can't provide more specifics, but you do not want Universities producing applied research without a middleman. The quality of the stuff they generally produce is really, REALLY subpar. The "middleman" in this case usually converts their theoretical proofs and case studies into a robust product that doesn't immediately fall apart. --- "History Is Much Like An Endless Waltz. The Three Beats Of War, Peace And Revolution Continue On Forever." - Gundam Wing: Endless Waltz <cite>s0nicfan posted [p:887023113] in 47 percent... [t:75799005]...</cite> <quote><cite>Balrog0 posted...</cite> <quote>that was exactly my point lol you're saying its not so bad because they do that I'm saying if that's true it would be easy to cut out the middle man R&D is not a huge part of the military budget, either, anyway</quote> You're just going to have to believe me on this one, because I can't provide more specifics, but you do not want Universities producing applied research without a middleman. The quality of the stuff they generally produce is really, REALLY subpar. The "middleman" in this case usually converts their theoretical proofs and case studies into a robust product that doesn't immediately fall apart.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Balrog0 09/21/17 2:21:35 PM #65:	Antifar posted... Balrog0 posted... Antifar posted... s0nicfan posted... Define "free college" here. Do you mean free in-state public colleges or private universities? Because there's a significant difference in cost between the two. Public college. There's not really any suggestion that private universities would be forcibly made tuition-free are there any estimates on what that could cost? https://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2014/01/heres-exactly-how-much-the-government-would-have-to-spend-to-make-public-college-tuition-free/282803/ A mere $62.6 billion dollars! According to new Department of Education data, that's how much tuition public colleges collected from undergraduates in 2012 across the entire United States. And I'm not being facetious with the word mere, either. The New America Foundation says that the federal government spent a whole $69 billion in 2013 on its hodgepodge of financial aid programs, such as Pell Grants for low-income students, tax breaks, work study funding. And that doesn't even include loans I've also seen the figure $47 billion floating around, but not sure where that comes from. thanks, man I need to look into this --- He would make his mark, if not on this tree, then on that wall; if not with teeth and claws, then with penknife and razor. <cite>Balrog0 posted [p:887023118] in 47 percent... [t:75799005]...</cite> <quote><cite>Antifar posted...</cite> <quote><cite>Balrog0 posted...</cite> <quote><cite>Antifar posted...</cite> <quote><cite>s0nicfan posted...</cite> <quote>Define "free college" here. Do you mean free in-state public colleges or private universities? Because there's a significant difference in cost between the two. </quote> Public college. There's not really any suggestion that private universities would be forcibly made tuition-free</quote> are there any estimates on what that could cost?</quote> https://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2014/01/heres-exactly-how-much-the-government-would-have-to-spend-to-make-public-college-tuition-free/282803/ <quote>A mere $62.6 billion dollars! According to new Department of Education data, that's how much tuition public colleges collected from undergraduates in 2012 across the entire United States. And I'm not being facetious with the word mere, either. The New America Foundation says that the federal government spent a whole $69 billion in 2013 on its hodgepodge of financial aid programs, such as Pell Grants for low-income students, tax breaks, work study funding. And that doesn't even include loans</quote> I've also seen the figure $47 billion floating around, but not sure where that comes from.</quote> thanks, man I need to look into this</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Balrog0 09/21/17 2:22:22 PM #66:	s0nicfan posted... You're just going to have to believe me on this one, because I can't provide more specifics, but you do not want Universities producing applied research without a middleman. The quality of the stuff they generally produce is really, REALLY subpar. The "middleman" in this case usually converts their theoretical proofs and case studies into a robust product that doesn't immediately fall apart. while I usually like it when vast government programs are justified on the basis of "just trust me" I think in this case I might not bite --- He would make his mark, if not on this tree, then on that wall; if not with teeth and claws, then with penknife and razor. <cite>Balrog0 posted [p:887023172] in 47 percent... [t:75799005]...</cite> <quote><cite>s0nicfan posted...</cite> <quote>You're just going to have to believe me on this one, because I can't provide more specifics, but you do not want Universities producing applied research without a middleman. The quality of the stuff they generally produce is really, REALLY subpar. The "middleman" in this case usually converts their theoretical proofs and case studies into a robust product that doesn't immediately fall apart.</quote> while I usually like it when vast government programs are justified on the basis of "just trust me" I think in this case I might not bite</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
emblem boy 09/21/17 2:24:05 PM #67:	Anteaterking posted... s0nicfan posted... I think the difference here is education is being pitched as a right. If you've been historically deprived of a right, generally the people who were negatively affected tend to seek reparations for being put at a societal disadvantage due to that disadvantage. What's the societal disadvantage? I'd think he means the ecenomic disadvantage --- Posted with GameRaven 3.2.2 <cite>emblem boy posted [p:887023282] in 47 percent... [t:75799005]...</cite> <quote><cite>Anteaterking posted...</cite> <quote><cite>s0nicfan posted...</cite> <quote> I think the difference here is education is being pitched as a right. If you've been historically deprived of a right, generally the people who were negatively affected tend to seek reparations for being put at a societal disadvantage due to that disadvantage.</quote> What's the societal disadvantage?</quote> I'd think he means the ecenomic disadvantage</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
s0nicfan 09/21/17 2:24:21 PM #68:	Balrog0 posted... s0nicfan posted... You're just going to have to believe me on this one, because I can't provide more specifics, but you do not want Universities producing applied research without a middleman. The quality of the stuff they generally produce is really, REALLY subpar. The "middleman" in this case usually converts their theoretical proofs and case studies into a robust product that doesn't immediately fall apart. while I usually like it when vast government programs are justified on the basis of "just trust me" I think in this case I might not bite Don't get me wrong, there's a lot of wasteful spending and that link to congress overriding the DoD on costs for tank maintenance is a great example of it. I just don't think the amount wasted is enough to fund a nationwide entitlement program, and I think there's a lot of good things that happen under the umbrella of "military spending" that gets overlooked. --- "History Is Much Like An Endless Waltz. The Three Beats Of War, Peace And Revolution Continue On Forever." - Gundam Wing: Endless Waltz <cite>s0nicfan posted [p:887023302] in 47 percent... [t:75799005]...</cite> <quote><cite>Balrog0 posted...</cite> <quote><cite>s0nicfan posted...</cite> <quote>You're just going to have to believe me on this one, because I can't provide more specifics, but you do not want Universities producing applied research without a middleman. The quality of the stuff they generally produce is really, REALLY subpar. The "middleman" in this case usually converts their theoretical proofs and case studies into a robust product that doesn't immediately fall apart.</quote> while I usually like it when vast government programs are justified on the basis of "just trust me" I think in this case I might not bite</quote> Don't get me wrong, there's a lot of wasteful spending and that link to congress overriding the DoD on costs for tank maintenance is a great example of it. I just don't think the amount wasted is enough to fund a nationwide entitlement program, and I think there's a lot of good things that happen under the umbrella of "military spending" that gets overlooked.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
TrollSlayer11 09/21/17 2:24:58 PM #69:	The Admiral posted... I'd be for this if there was a serious crackdown on the massively inflated cost of college education. Right now, no thanks. --- Sunglasses and advil <cite>TrollSlayer11 posted [p:887023338] in 47 percent... [t:75799005]...</cite> <quote><cite>The Admiral posted...</cite> <quote>I'd be for this if there was a serious crackdown on the massively inflated cost of college education. Right now, no thanks.</quote></quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
s0nicfan 09/21/17 2:26:00 PM #70:	emblem boy posted... Anteaterking posted... s0nicfan posted... I think the difference here is education is being pitched as a right. If you've been historically deprived of a right, generally the people who were negatively affected tend to seek reparations for being put at a societal disadvantage due to that disadvantage. What's the societal disadvantage? I'd think he means the ecenomic disadvantage I did. --- "History Is Much Like An Endless Waltz. The Three Beats Of War, Peace And Revolution Continue On Forever." - Gundam Wing: Endless Waltz <cite>s0nicfan posted [p:887023391] in 47 percent... [t:75799005]...</cite> <quote><cite>emblem boy posted...</cite> <quote><cite>Anteaterking posted...</cite> <quote><cite>s0nicfan posted...</cite> <quote> I think the difference here is education is being pitched as a right. If you've been historically deprived of a right, generally the people who were negatively affected tend to seek reparations for being put at a societal disadvantage due to that disadvantage.</quote> What's the societal disadvantage?</quote> I'd think he means the ecenomic disadvantage</quote> I did.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Balrog0 09/21/17 2:27:11 PM #71:	s0nicfan posted... I just don't think the amount wasted is enough to fund a nationwide entitlement program yeah, probably not, I agree I agree less with the idea that a significant portion of the military budget is actually used wisely BUT I don't think it fixes our budgetary/fiscal problems either way it should be part of the reforms but we have to figure out entitlements for meaningful reforms before we implement huge new programs we also need to raise revenue imho --- He would make his mark, if not on this tree, then on that wall; if not with teeth and claws, then with penknife and razor. <cite>Balrog0 posted [p:887023458] in 47 percent... [t:75799005]...</cite> <quote><cite>s0nicfan posted...</cite> <quote>I just don't think the amount wasted is enough to fund a nationwide entitlement program</quote> yeah, probably not, I agree I agree less with the idea that a significant portion of the military budget is actually used wisely BUT I don't think it fixes our budgetary/fiscal problems either way it should be part of the reforms but we have to figure out entitlements for meaningful reforms before we implement huge new programs we also need to raise revenue imho</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Anteaterking 09/21/17 2:28:49 PM #72:	emblem boy posted... Anteaterking posted... s0nicfan posted... I think the difference here is education is being pitched as a right. If you've been historically deprived of a right, generally the people who were negatively affected tend to seek reparations for being put at a societal disadvantage due to that disadvantage. What's the societal disadvantage? I'd think he means the ecenomic disadvantage I think to claim that you were at an economic disadvantage, you'd have to show me that you spent more on your degree than you gained because of having it. This is in addition to needing to fit the parameters of attending a public school (and possibly requiring it to be one in your state, depending on how the legislation ends up going). --- http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b136/Anteaterking/scan00021.jpg http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b136/Anteaterking/scan00021.jpg <cite>Anteaterking posted [p:887023560] in 47 percent... [t:75799005]...</cite> <quote><cite>emblem boy posted...</cite> <quote><cite>Anteaterking posted...</cite> <quote><cite>s0nicfan posted...</cite> <quote> I think the difference here is education is being pitched as a right. If you've been historically deprived of a right, generally the people who were negatively affected tend to seek reparations for being put at a societal disadvantage due to that disadvantage.</quote> What's the societal disadvantage?</quote> I'd think he means the ecenomic disadvantage</quote> I think to claim that you were at an economic disadvantage, you'd have to show me that you spent more on your degree than you gained because of having it. This is in addition to needing to fit the parameters of attending a public school (and possibly requiring it to be one in your state, depending on how the legislation ends up going).</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
The Admiral 09/21/17 2:29:07 PM #73:	TrollSlayer11 posted... The Admiral posted... I'd be for this if there was a serious crackdown on the massively inflated cost of college education. Right now, no thanks. To elaborate on this, if we're going to socialize college and treat it like another required level of public education, its costs need to be controlled as such. This can't be a blank check for college administrators who can jack up tuition to $60K a year and expect the tax payers will just foot the bill. --- - The Admiral <cite>The Admiral posted [p:887023580] in 47 percent... [t:75799005]...</cite> <quote><cite>TrollSlayer11 posted...</cite> <quote><cite>The Admiral posted...</cite> <quote>I'd be for this if there was a serious crackdown on the massively inflated cost of college education. Right now, no thanks.</quote></quote> To elaborate on this, if we're going to socialize college and treat it like another required level of public education, its costs need to be controlled as such. This can't be a blank check for college administrators who can jack up tuition to $60K a year and expect the tax payers will just foot the bill.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
s0nicfan 09/21/17 2:31:09 PM #74:	Balrog0 posted... s0nicfan posted... I just don't think the amount wasted is enough to fund a nationwide entitlement program yeah, probably not, I agree I agree less with the idea that a significant portion of the military budget is actually used wisely BUT I don't think it fixes our budgetary/fiscal problems either way it should be part of the reforms but we have to figure out entitlements for meaningful reforms before we implement huge new programs we also need to raise revenue imho So the other thing to consider is that most military spending goes towards paying for actually employees. I don't think enough analysis has been done on what happens to an economy if you displace a hundred thousand employees' salaries worth of money and put it into paying for the education of kids who aren't yet putting back into society. What would unemployment look like? --- "History Is Much Like An Endless Waltz. The Three Beats Of War, Peace And Revolution Continue On Forever." - Gundam Wing: Endless Waltz <cite>s0nicfan posted [p:887023702] in 47 percent... [t:75799005]...</cite> <quote><cite>Balrog0 posted...</cite> <quote><cite>s0nicfan posted...</cite> <quote>I just don't think the amount wasted is enough to fund a nationwide entitlement program</quote> yeah, probably not, I agree I agree less with the idea that a significant portion of the military budget is actually used wisely BUT I don't think it fixes our budgetary/fiscal problems either way it should be part of the reforms but we have to figure out entitlements for meaningful reforms before we implement huge new programs we also need to raise revenue imho</quote> So the other thing to consider is that most military spending goes towards paying for actually employees. I don't think enough analysis has been done on what happens to an economy if you displace a hundred thousand employees' salaries worth of money and put it into paying for the education of kids who aren't yet putting back into society. What would unemployment look like?</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
s0nicfan 09/21/17 2:32:41 PM #75:	Anteaterking posted... I think to claim that you were at an economic disadvantage, you'd have to show me that you spent more on your degree than you gained because of having it. How so? Two people are working in the same job with the same degree. One person got that degree for free, and the other has $100,000.00 in debt to pay back. That's an economic disadvantage, even if both of those people ultimately make back more than the debt in salary. --- "History Is Much Like An Endless Waltz. The Three Beats Of War, Peace And Revolution Continue On Forever." - Gundam Wing: Endless Waltz <cite>s0nicfan posted [p:887023824] in 47 percent... [t:75799005]...</cite> <quote><cite>Anteaterking posted...</cite> <quote> I think to claim that you were at an economic disadvantage, you'd have to show me that you spent more on your degree than you gained because of having it. </quote> How so? Two people are working in the same job with the same degree. One person got that degree for free, and the other has $100,000.00 in debt to pay back. That's an economic disadvantage, even if both of those people ultimately make back more than the debt in salary.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
emblem boy 09/21/17 2:33:25 PM #76:	Anteaterking posted... emblem boy posted... Anteaterking posted... s0nicfan posted... I think the difference here is education is being pitched as a right. If you've been historically deprived of a right, generally the people who were negatively affected tend to seek reparations for being put at a societal disadvantage due to that disadvantage. What's the societal disadvantage? I'd think he means the ecenomic disadvantage I think to claim that you were at an economic disadvantage, you'd have to show me that you spent more on your degree than you gained because of having it. This is in addition to needing to fit the parameters of attending a public school (and possibly requiring it to be one in your state, depending on how the legislation ends up going). Does this apply to those who paid off their loans and those who haven't? --- Posted with GameRaven 3.2.2 <cite>emblem boy posted [p:887023863] in 47 percent... [t:75799005]...</cite> <quote><cite>Anteaterking posted...</cite> <quote><cite>emblem boy posted...</cite> <quote> <cite>Anteaterking posted...</cite> <quote> <cite>s0nicfan posted...</cite> <quote> I think the difference here is education is being pitched as a right. If you've been historically deprived of a right, generally the people who were negatively affected tend to seek reparations for being put at a societal disadvantage due to that disadvantage. </quote> What's the societal disadvantage? </quote> I'd think he means the ecenomic disadvantage</quote> I think to claim that you were at an economic disadvantage, you'd have to show me that you spent more on your degree than you gained because of having it. This is in addition to needing to fit the parameters of attending a public school (and possibly requiring it to be one in your state, depending on how the legislation ends up going).</quote> Does this apply to those who paid off their loans and those who haven't?</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Anteaterking 09/21/17 2:35:14 PM #77:	s0nicfan posted... Anteaterking posted... I think to claim that you were at an economic disadvantage, you'd have to show me that you spent more on your degree than you gained because of having it. How so? Two people are working in the same job with the same degree. One person got that degree for free, and the other has $100,000.00 in debt to pay back. That's an economic disadvantage, even if both of those people ultimately make back more than the debt in salary. My initial comment about grandfathering said that I would expect something for people who currently have student loans. I'm saying that the people who have already paid off their student loans don't have much claim to reparations. --- http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b136/Anteaterking/scan00021.jpg http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b136/Anteaterking/scan00021.jpg <cite>Anteaterking posted [p:887023988] in 47 percent... [t:75799005]...</cite> <quote><cite>s0nicfan posted...</cite> <quote><cite>Anteaterking posted...</cite> <quote> I think to claim that you were at an economic disadvantage, you'd have to show me that you spent more on your degree than you gained because of having it. </quote> How so? Two people are working in the same job with the same degree. One person got that degree for free, and the other has $100,000.00 in debt to pay back. That's an economic disadvantage, even if both of those people ultimately make back more than the debt in salary.</quote> My initial comment about grandfathering said that I would expect something for people who currently have student loans. I'm saying that the people who have already paid off their student loans don't have much claim to reparations.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
emblem boy 09/21/17 2:38:07 PM #78:	Anteaterking posted... s0nicfan posted... Anteaterking posted... I think to claim that you were at an economic disadvantage, you'd have to show me that you spent more on your degree than you gained because of having it. How so? Two people are working in the same job with the same degree. One person got that degree for free, and the other has $100,000.00 in debt to pay back. That's an economic disadvantage, even if both of those people ultimately make back more than the debt in salary. My initial comment about grandfathering said that I would expect something for people who currently have student loans. I'm saying that the people who have already paid off their student loans don't have much claim to reparations. If you're gonna give something for those paying off their loans, then I'd think it makes sense to give someone for those who paid off their loans, assuming both groups of people meet the same conditions such as school, graduation date, etc --- Posted with GameRaven 3.2.2 <cite>emblem boy posted [p:887024150] in 47 percent... [t:75799005]...</cite> <quote><cite>Anteaterking posted...</cite> <quote><cite>s0nicfan posted...</cite> <quote> <cite>Anteaterking posted...</cite> <quote> I think to claim that you were at an economic disadvantage, you'd have to show me that you spent more on your degree than you gained because of having it. </quote> How so? Two people are working in the same job with the same degree. One person got that degree for free, and the other has $100,000.00 in debt to pay back. That's an economic disadvantage, even if both of those people ultimately make back more than the debt in salary.</quote> My initial comment about grandfathering said that I would expect something for people who currently have student loans. I'm saying that the people who have already paid off their student loans don't have much claim to reparations.</quote> If you're gonna give something for those paying off their loans, then I'd think it makes sense to give someone for those who paid off their loans, assuming both groups of people meet the same conditions such as school, graduation date, etc</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
s0nicfan 09/21/17 2:39:12 PM #79:	Anteaterking posted... s0nicfan posted... Anteaterking posted... I think to claim that you were at an economic disadvantage, you'd have to show me that you spent more on your degree than you gained because of having it. How so? Two people are working in the same job with the same degree. One person got that degree for free, and the other has $100,000.00 in debt to pay back. That's an economic disadvantage, even if both of those people ultimately make back more than the debt in salary. My initial comment about grandfathering said that I would expect something for people who currently have student loans. I'm saying that the people who have already paid off their student loans don't have much claim to reparations. Let's flash forward 50 years and compare what retirement looks like between someone who spent 20 years paying off student loans and someone who was able to invest that money into a retirement plan, or other investments, or a home instead of an apartment.... --- "History Is Much Like An Endless Waltz. The Three Beats Of War, Peace And Revolution Continue On Forever." - Gundam Wing: Endless Waltz <cite>s0nicfan posted [p:887024218] in 47 percent... [t:75799005]...</cite> <quote><cite>Anteaterking posted...</cite> <quote><cite>s0nicfan posted...</cite> <quote><cite>Anteaterking posted...</cite> <quote> I think to claim that you were at an economic disadvantage, you'd have to show me that you spent more on your degree than you gained because of having it. </quote> How so? Two people are working in the same job with the same degree. One person got that degree for free, and the other has $100,000.00 in debt to pay back. That's an economic disadvantage, even if both of those people ultimately make back more than the debt in salary.</quote> My initial comment about grandfathering said that I would expect something for people who currently have student loans. I'm saying that the people who have already paid off their student loans don't have much claim to reparations.</quote> Let's flash forward 50 years and compare what retirement looks like between someone who spent 20 years paying off student loans and someone who was able to invest that money into a retirement plan, or other investments, or a home instead of an apartment....</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Newhopes 09/21/17 2:43:34 PM #80:	When will people understand nothing is free. <cite>Newhopes posted [p:887024476] in 47 percent... [t:75799005]...</cite> <quote>When will people understand nothing is free.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Anteaterking 09/21/17 2:44:35 PM #81:	emblem boy posted... Anteaterking posted... emblem boy posted... Anteaterking posted... s0nicfan posted... I think the difference here is education is being pitched as a right. If you've been historically deprived of a right, generally the people who were negatively affected tend to seek reparations for being put at a societal disadvantage due to that disadvantage. What's the societal disadvantage? I'd think he means the ecenomic disadvantage I think to claim that you were at an economic disadvantage, you'd have to show me that you spent more on your degree than you gained because of having it. This is in addition to needing to fit the parameters of attending a public school (and possibly requiring it to be one in your state, depending on how the legislation ends up going). Does this apply to those who paid off their loans and those who haven't? I imagine any sort of loan forgiveness rider would probably "back"-tend a few years as to not screw people who literally just paid off their loans, but I imagine people who paid part of their loans in periods before that cut off would be treated the same for that portion of the money as people who had paid off all of their loans before the cut off. If your value without a degree is $35,000 a year, your degree cost $80,000, and your salary with a degree is $85,000, you gained $50,000 a year for having a degree. Reparations is comparing you now versus a you that didn't attend college until it became free. So if you got your degree 10 years ago, you've gained much more out of not waiting to get a degree than you paid. s0nicfan posted... Let's flash forward 50 years and compare what retirement looks like between someone who spent 20 years paying off student loans and someone who was able to invest that money into a retirement plan, or other investments, or a home instead of an apartment... You're comparing the wrong thing. Using the numbers above, who would be better off in 50 years? The version of you who got their degree ten years ago or the version of you who starts their degree right now? --- http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b136/Anteaterking/scan00021.jpg http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b136/Anteaterking/scan00021.jpg <cite>Anteaterking posted [p:887024529] in 47 percent... [t:75799005]...</cite> <quote><cite>emblem boy posted...</cite> <quote><cite>Anteaterking posted...</cite> <quote><cite>emblem boy posted...</cite> <quote> <cite>Anteaterking posted...</cite> <quote> <cite>s0nicfan posted...</cite> <quote> I think the difference here is education is being pitched as a right. If you've been historically deprived of a right, generally the people who were negatively affected tend to seek reparations for being put at a societal disadvantage due to that disadvantage. </quote> What's the societal disadvantage? </quote> I'd think he means the ecenomic disadvantage</quote> I think to claim that you were at an economic disadvantage, you'd have to show me that you spent more on your degree than you gained because of having it. This is in addition to needing to fit the parameters of attending a public school (and possibly requiring it to be one in your state, depending on how the legislation ends up going).</quote> Does this apply to those who paid off their loans and those who haven't?</quote> I imagine any sort of loan forgiveness rider would probably "back"-tend a few years as to not screw people who literally just paid off their loans, but I imagine people who paid part of their loans in periods before that cut off would be treated the same for that portion of the money as people who had paid off all of their loans before the cut off. If your value without a degree is $35,000 a year, your degree cost $80,000, and your salary with a degree is $85,000, you gained $50,000 a year for having a degree. Reparations is comparing you now versus a you that didn't attend college until it became free. So if you got your degree 10 years ago, you've gained much more out of not waiting to get a degree than you paid. <cite>s0nicfan posted...</cite> <quote> Let's flash forward 50 years and compare what retirement looks like between someone who spent 20 years paying off student loans and someone who was able to invest that money into a retirement plan, or other investments, or a home instead of an apartment...</quote> You're comparing the wrong thing. Using the numbers above, who would be better off in 50 years? The version of you who got their degree ten years ago or the version of you who starts their degree right now?</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
s0nicfan 09/21/17 2:44:54 PM #82:	Newhopes posted... When will people understand nothing is free. Most people seriously pushing for free college are also in the group they believe shouldn't have to pay for it. It's easy to ask for free things by demanding someone other than you pay for all of it. --- "History Is Much Like An Endless Waltz. The Three Beats Of War, Peace And Revolution Continue On Forever." - Gundam Wing: Endless Waltz <cite>s0nicfan posted [p:887024554] in 47 percent... [t:75799005]...</cite> <quote><cite>Newhopes posted...</cite> <quote>When will people understand nothing is free.</quote> Most people seriously pushing for free college are also in the group they believe shouldn't have to pay for it. It's easy to ask for free things by demanding someone other than you pay for all of it.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
#83	Post #83 was unavailable or deleted.
s0nicfan 09/21/17 2:46:20 PM #84:	Anteaterking posted... You're comparing the wrong thing. Using the numbers above, who would be better off in 50 years? The version of you who got their degree ten years ago or the version of you who starts their degree right now? I meant flash forward 50 years into their individual careers. Also, even in your example, the person who started 10 years later but with $0 in student debt may very well be better off. --- "History Is Much Like An Endless Waltz. The Three Beats Of War, Peace And Revolution Continue On Forever." - Gundam Wing: Endless Waltz <cite>s0nicfan posted [p:887024647] in 47 percent... [t:75799005]...</cite> <quote><cite>Anteaterking posted...</cite> <quote>You're comparing the wrong thing. Using the numbers above, who would be better off in 50 years? The version of you who got their degree ten years ago or the version of you who starts their degree right now?</quote> I meant flash forward 50 years into their individual careers. Also, even in your example, the person who started 10 years later but with $0 in student debt may very well be better off.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Anteaterking 09/21/17 2:51:50 PM #85:	s0nicfan posted... Anteaterking posted... You're comparing the wrong thing. Using the numbers above, who would be better off in 50 years? The version of you who got their degree ten years ago or the version of you who starts their degree right now? I meant flash forward 50 years into their individual careers. Also, even in your example, the person who started 10 years later but with $0 in student debt may very well be better off. You wouldn't be in my example. When you got their degree early, they got 60 years * 85,000 - 80,000 = $5,020,000 When you waited to get your degree, you got 10 years * 35,000 + 40 years * 85,000=$3,750,000 --- http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b136/Anteaterking/scan00021.jpg http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b136/Anteaterking/scan00021.jpg <cite>Anteaterking posted [p:887025003] in 47 percent... [t:75799005]...</cite> <quote><cite>s0nicfan posted...</cite> <quote><cite>Anteaterking posted...</cite> <quote>You're comparing the wrong thing. Using the numbers above, who would be better off in 50 years? The version of you who got their degree ten years ago or the version of you who starts their degree right now?</quote> I meant flash forward 50 years into their individual careers. Also, even in your example, the person who started 10 years later but with $0 in student debt may very well be better off.</quote> You wouldn't be in my example. When you got their degree early, they got 60 years * 85,000 - 80,000 = $5,020,000 When you waited to get your degree, you got 10 years * 35,000 + 40 years * 85,000=$3,750,000</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
emblem boy 09/21/17 2:53:25 PM #86:	Anteaterking posted... s0nicfan posted... Anteaterking posted... You're comparing the wrong thing. Using the numbers above, who would be better off in 50 years? The version of you who got their degree ten years ago or the version of you who starts their degree right now? I meant flash forward 50 years into their individual careers. Also, even in your example, the person who started 10 years later but with $0 in student debt may very well be better off. You wouldn't be in my example. When you got their degree early, they got 60 years * 85,000 - 80,000 = $5,020,000 When you waited to get your degree, you got 10 years * 35,000 + 40 years * 85,000=$3,750,000 What if they got their degree at the same time but one paid it off years before the other. Then the grandfathering happened --- Posted with GameRaven 3.2.2 <cite>emblem boy posted [p:887025118] in 47 percent... [t:75799005]...</cite> <quote><cite>Anteaterking posted...</cite> <quote><cite>s0nicfan posted...</cite> <quote> <cite>Anteaterking posted...</cite> <quote> You're comparing the wrong thing. Using the numbers above, who would be better off in 50 years? The version of you who got their degree ten years ago or the version of you who starts their degree right now? </quote> I meant flash forward 50 years into their individual careers. Also, even in your example, the person who started 10 years later but with $0 in student debt may very well be better off.</quote> You wouldn't be in my example. When you got their degree early, they got 60 years * 85,000 - 80,000 = $5,020,000 When you waited to get your degree, you got 10 years * 35,000 + 40 years * 85,000=$3,750,000</quote> What if they got their degree at the same time but one paid it off years before the other. Then the grandfathering happened</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
s0nicfan 09/21/17 2:54:37 PM #87:	Anteaterking posted... s0nicfan posted... Anteaterking posted... You're comparing the wrong thing. Using the numbers above, who would be better off in 50 years? The version of you who got their degree ten years ago or the version of you who starts their degree right now? I meant flash forward 50 years into their individual careers. Also, even in your example, the person who started 10 years later but with $0 in student debt may very well be better off. You wouldn't be in my example. When you got their degree early, they got 60 years * 85,000 - 80,000 = $5,020,000 When you waited to get your degree, you got 10 years * 35,000 + 40 years * 85,000=$3,750,000 I don't think you get what my point was. Person B isn't WAITING to get their degree and working for 10 years for 35k. Person B started the same 85K a year job but also didn't have student debt because tuition was free. --- "History Is Much Like An Endless Waltz. The Three Beats Of War, Peace And Revolution Continue On Forever." - Gundam Wing: Endless Waltz <cite>s0nicfan posted [p:887025192] in 47 percent... [t:75799005]...</cite> <quote><cite>Anteaterking posted...</cite> <quote><cite>s0nicfan posted...</cite> <quote><cite>Anteaterking posted...</cite> <quote>You're comparing the wrong thing. Using the numbers above, who would be better off in 50 years? The version of you who got their degree ten years ago or the version of you who starts their degree right now?</quote> I meant flash forward 50 years into their individual careers. Also, even in your example, the person who started 10 years later but with $0 in student debt may very well be better off.</quote> You wouldn't be in my example. When you got their degree early, they got 60 years * 85,000 - 80,000 = $5,020,000 When you waited to get your degree, you got 10 years * 35,000 + 40 years * 85,000=$3,750,000</quote> I don't think you get what my point was. Person B isn't WAITING to get their degree and working for 10 years for 35k. Person B started the same 85K a year job but also didn't have student debt because tuition was free.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Anteaterking 09/21/17 2:55:38 PM #88:	emblem boy posted... What if they got their degree at the same time but one paid it off years before the other. Then the grandfathering happened But then you aren't comparing them to people who benefit under the new policy. You're comparing them to another person who was under the old policy. --- http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b136/Anteaterking/scan00021.jpg http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b136/Anteaterking/scan00021.jpg <cite>Anteaterking posted [p:887025249] in 47 percent... [t:75799005]...</cite> <quote><cite>emblem boy posted...</cite> <quote>What if they got their degree at the same time but one paid it off years before the other. Then the grandfathering happened</quote> But then you aren't comparing them to people who benefit under the new policy. You're comparing them to another person who was under the old policy.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
emblem boy 09/21/17 2:57:28 PM #89:	Anteaterking posted... emblem boy posted... What if they got their degree at the same time but one paid it off years before the other. Then the grandfathering happened But then you aren't comparing them to people who benefit under the new policy. You're comparing them to another person who was under the old policy. Yes that's what I'm saying. You said those who graduated and are currently paying student loans after graduating should get some form of compensation, but those who graduated at the same time but paid it off faster shouldn't get compensation? --- Posted with GameRaven 3.2.2 <cite>emblem boy posted [p:887025348] in 47 percent... [t:75799005]...</cite> <quote><cite>Anteaterking posted...</cite> <quote><cite>emblem boy posted...</cite> <quote> What if they got their degree at the same time but one paid it off years before the other. Then the grandfathering happened</quote> But then you aren't comparing them to people who benefit under the new policy. You're comparing them to another person who was under the old policy.</quote> Yes that's what I'm saying. You said those who graduated and are currently paying student loans after graduating should get some form of compensation, but those who graduated at the same time but paid it off faster shouldn't get compensation?</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Anteaterking 09/21/17 2:59:32 PM #90:	emblem boy posted... Anteaterking posted... emblem boy posted... What if they got their degree at the same time but one paid it off years before the other. Then the grandfathering happened But then you aren't comparing them to people who benefit under the new policy. You're comparing them to another person who was under the old policy. Yes that's what I'm saying. You said those who graduated and are currently paying student loans after graduating should get some form of compensation, but those who graduated at the same time but paid it off faster shouldn't get compensation? Yeah, but that's just because we have to set the cut-off somewhere. If they both graduated within the cut-off, it would treat them the same regardless of how fast they paid off loans. --- http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b136/Anteaterking/scan00021.jpg http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b136/Anteaterking/scan00021.jpg <cite>Anteaterking posted [p:887025460] in 47 percent... [t:75799005]...</cite> <quote><cite>emblem boy posted...</cite> <quote><cite>Anteaterking posted...</cite> <quote><cite>emblem boy posted...</cite> <quote> What if they got their degree at the same time but one paid it off years before the other. Then the grandfathering happened</quote> But then you aren't comparing them to people who benefit under the new policy. You're comparing them to another person who was under the old policy.</quote> Yes that's what I'm saying. You said those who graduated and are currently paying student loans after graduating should get some form of compensation, but those who graduated at the same time but paid it off faster shouldn't get compensation?</quote> Yeah, but that's just because we have to set the cut-off somewhere. If they both graduated within the cut-off, it would treat them the same regardless of how fast they paid off loans.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
emblem boy 09/21/17 3:01:33 PM #91:	Anteaterking posted... emblem boy posted... Anteaterking posted... emblem boy posted... What if they got their degree at the same time but one paid it off years before the other. Then the grandfathering happened But then you aren't comparing them to people who benefit under the new policy. You're comparing them to another person who was under the old policy. Yes that's what I'm saying. You said those who graduated and are currently paying student loans after graduating should get some form of compensation, but those who graduated at the same time but paid it off faster shouldn't get compensation? Yeah, but that's just because we have to set the cut-off somewhere. If they both graduated within the cut-off, it would treat them the same regardless of how fast they paid off loans. Ok I read what you initially said wrong then. --- Posted with GameRaven 3.2.2 <cite>emblem boy posted [p:887025599] in 47 percent... [t:75799005]...</cite> <quote><cite>Anteaterking posted...</cite> <quote><cite>emblem boy posted...</cite> <quote> <cite>Anteaterking posted...</cite> <quote> <cite>emblem boy posted...</cite> <quote> What if they got their degree at the same time but one paid it off years before the other. Then the grandfathering happened </quote> But then you aren't comparing them to people who benefit under the new policy. You're comparing them to another person who was under the old policy. </quote> Yes that's what I'm saying. You said those who graduated and are currently paying student loans after graduating should get some form of compensation, but those who graduated at the same time but paid it off faster shouldn't get compensation?</quote> Yeah, but that's just because we have to set the cut-off somewhere. If they both graduated within the cut-off, it would treat them the same regardless of how fast they paid off loans.</quote> Ok I read what you initially said wrong then.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Anteaterking 09/21/17 3:03:42 PM #92:	emblem boy posted... Anteaterking posted... emblem boy posted... Anteaterking posted... emblem boy posted... What if they got their degree at the same time but one paid it off years before the other. Then the grandfathering happened But then you aren't comparing them to people who benefit under the new policy. You're comparing them to another person who was under the old policy. Yes that's what I'm saying. You said those who graduated and are currently paying student loans after graduating should get some form of compensation, but those who graduated at the same time but paid it off faster shouldn't get compensation? Yeah, but that's just because we have to set the cut-off somewhere. If they both graduated within the cut-off, it would treat them the same regardless of how fast they paid off loans. Ok I read what you initially said wrong then. I was just saying that if we draw the line at all loan payments made within the last 10 years, if there two people who graduated twelve years ago and one of them started repaying really fast, they would have more paid off outside of that 10 years, so they would benefit less, but that's somewhat unavoidable with a cut-off. --- http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b136/Anteaterking/scan00021.jpg http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b136/Anteaterking/scan00021.jpg <cite>Anteaterking posted [p:887025737] in 47 percent... [t:75799005]...</cite> <quote><cite>emblem boy posted...</cite> <quote><cite>Anteaterking posted...</cite> <quote><cite>emblem boy posted...</cite> <quote> <cite>Anteaterking posted...</cite> <quote> <cite>emblem boy posted...</cite> <quote> What if they got their degree at the same time but one paid it off years before the other. Then the grandfathering happened </quote> But then you aren't comparing them to people who benefit under the new policy. You're comparing them to another person who was under the old policy. </quote> Yes that's what I'm saying. You said those who graduated and are currently paying student loans after graduating should get some form of compensation, but those who graduated at the same time but paid it off faster shouldn't get compensation?</quote> Yeah, but that's just because we have to set the cut-off somewhere. If they both graduated within the cut-off, it would treat them the same regardless of how fast they paid off loans.</quote> Ok I read what you initially said wrong then.</quote> I was just saying that if we draw the line at all loan payments made within the last 10 years, if there two people who graduated twelve years ago and one of them started repaying really fast, they would have more paid off outside of that 10 years, so they would benefit less, but that's somewhat unavoidable with a cut-off.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
emblem boy 09/21/17 3:05:47 PM #93:	Anteaterking posted... emblem boy posted... Anteaterking posted... emblem boy posted... Anteaterking posted... emblem boy posted... What if they got their degree at the same time but one paid it off years before the other. Then the grandfathering happened But then you aren't comparing them to people who benefit under the new policy. You're comparing them to another person who was under the old policy. Yes that's what I'm saying. You said those who graduated and are currently paying student loans after graduating should get some form of compensation, but those who graduated at the same time but paid it off faster shouldn't get compensation? Yeah, but that's just because we have to set the cut-off somewhere. If they both graduated within the cut-off, it would treat them the same regardless of how fast they paid off loans. Ok I read what you initially said wrong then. I was just saying that if we draw the line at all loan payments made within the last 10 years, if there two people who graduated twelve years ago and one of them started repaying really fast, they would have more paid off outside of that 10 years, so they would benefit less, but that's somewhat unavoidable with a cut-off. Why not just have the cutoff based on when they graduated rather than when they started paying their loans --- Posted with GameRaven 3.2.2 <cite>emblem boy posted [p:887025846] in 47 percent... [t:75799005]...</cite> <quote><cite>Anteaterking posted...</cite> <quote><cite>emblem boy posted...</cite> <quote> <cite>Anteaterking posted...</cite> <quote> <cite>emblem boy posted...</cite> <quote> <cite>Anteaterking posted...</cite> <quote> <cite>emblem boy posted...</cite> <quote> What if they got their degree at the same time but one paid it off years before the other. Then the grandfathering happened </quote> But then you aren't comparing them to people who benefit under the new policy. You're comparing them to another person who was under the old policy. </quote> Yes that's what I'm saying. You said those who graduated and are currently paying student loans after graduating should get some form of compensation, but those who graduated at the same time but paid it off faster shouldn't get compensation? </quote> Yeah, but that's just because we have to set the cut-off somewhere. If they both graduated within the cut-off, it would treat them the same regardless of how fast they paid off loans. </quote> Ok I read what you initially said wrong then.</quote> I was just saying that if we draw the line at all loan payments made within the last 10 years, if there two people who graduated twelve years ago and one of them started repaying really fast, they would have more paid off outside of that 10 years, so they would benefit less, but that's somewhat unavoidable with a cut-off.</quote> Why not just have the cutoff based on when they graduated rather than when they started paying their loans</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Anteaterking 09/21/17 4:32:44 PM #94:	emblem boy posted... Anteaterking posted... emblem boy posted... Anteaterking posted... emblem boy posted... Anteaterking posted... Yes that's what I'm saying. You said those who graduated and are currently paying student loans after graduating should get some form of compensation, but those who graduated at the same time but paid it off faster shouldn't get compensation? Yeah, but that's just because we have to set the cut-off somewhere. If they both graduated within the cut-off, it would treat them the same regardless of how fast they paid off loans. Ok I read what you initially said wrong then. I was just saying that if we draw the line at all loan payments made within the last 10 years, if there two people who graduated twelve years ago and one of them started repaying really fast, they would have more paid off outside of that 10 years, so they would benefit less, but that's somewhat unavoidable with a cut-off. Why not just have the cutoff based on when they graduated rather than when they started paying their loans That's also fine (and probably less of a headache). s0nicfan posted... I don't think you get what my point was. Person B isn't WAITING to get their degree and working for 10 years for 35k. Person B started the same 85K a year job but also didn't have student debt because tuition was free. That's not a fair comparison though. The reason why "reparations" doesn't even make sense in this context is that student loans gave you a benefit. College was a certain price at the time when Joe Schmo got their degree and he decided to get that degree because the benefits outweighed the costs. Changing the price of it now doesn't entitle everyone who took the deal to money back, especially if they've done better because of the deal than they would have otherwise. It's no more of an economic disadvantage than giving economic incentives for installing clean energy is a disadvantage for companies who already did that years ago. --- http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b136/Anteaterking/scan00021.jpg http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b136/Anteaterking/scan00021.jpg <cite>Anteaterking posted [p:887030909] in 47 percent... [t:75799005]...</cite> <quote><cite>emblem boy posted...</cite> <quote><cite>Anteaterking posted...</cite> <quote><cite>emblem boy posted...</cite> <quote> <cite>Anteaterking posted...</cite> <quote> <cite>emblem boy posted...</cite> <quote> <cite>Anteaterking posted...</cite> Yes that's what I'm saying. You said those who graduated and are currently paying student loans after graduating should get some form of compensation, but those who graduated at the same time but paid it off faster shouldn't get compensation? </quote> Yeah, but that's just because we have to set the cut-off somewhere. If they both graduated within the cut-off, it would treat them the same regardless of how fast they paid off loans. </quote> Ok I read what you initially said wrong then.</quote> I was just saying that if we draw the line at all loan payments made within the last 10 years, if there two people who graduated twelve years ago and one of them started repaying really fast, they would have more paid off outside of that 10 years, so they would benefit less, but that's somewhat unavoidable with a cut-off.</quote> Why not just have the cutoff based on when they graduated rather than when they started paying their loans</quote> That's also fine (and probably less of a headache). <cite>s0nicfan posted...</cite> <quote>I don't think you get what my point was. Person B isn't WAITING to get their degree and working for 10 years for 35k. Person B started the same 85K a year job but also didn't have student debt because tuition was free.</quote> That's not a fair comparison though. The reason why "reparations" doesn't even make sense in this context is that student loans gave you a benefit. College was a certain price at the time when Joe Schmo got their degree and he decided to get that degree because the benefits outweighed the costs. Changing the price of it now doesn't entitle everyone who took the deal to money back, especially if they've done better because of the deal than they would have otherwise. It's no more of an economic disadvantage than giving economic incentives for installing clean energy is a disadvantage for companies who already did that years ago.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
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Current Events > 47 percent support making public colleges tuition-free, 45 percent oppose (+) Yeah! (+)

Current Events > 47 percent support making public colleges tuition-free, 45 percent oppose