Board 8 > so, Metroid: Samus Returns

(+) Yeah! (+)

It's in such a weirdly semi-hidden optional place. And it requires 2 optional powerups to get. I guess they figure the fire rooms are enough pressure to make you go backtracking and find it.
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are the crystals breakable? I see a few items blocked off by them
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also needed to read the spoiler on the ceiling/floor spikes
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GTM posted...

are the crystals breakable? I see a few items blocked off by them

Haven't gotten post them yet myself, but Return of Samus had crystals like that after the final boss that the baby Metroid cleared for you. Seems odd to have power ups locked away like that, like you'd need to drag the baby with you everywhere and get items after beating the final boss? But that's what they look like.
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transcience posted...

OliviaTremor posted...

Those shortcuts in Zero Mission are so awesome. Easily my favorite thing that game did.

it's been years so I could be wrong, but I thought you had issues with this? or maybe it was just semantics - that they get called sequence breaks instead of built-in shortcuts?

Nah, I don't have issues with that. Maybe I did a long time ago though? I would have preferred if it was like Foolmo said with walljumping/bomb jumping instead of hidden missile blocks-- but it's really cool the developers took into consideration the non-linearity of the original.

My main issues with Zero Mission are Chozodia which I believe is a mess and the end game collectathon which is a bit more minor. I always preferred being able to collect all the items in one fell swoop with minimal backtracking. Zero Mission I think is a pretty awesome game with the exception of the final 1/3 or so.

I've got to finish AM2R now. Haven't had the time to but I'm excited to finish it.
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I had issues with Chozodia my first time but not after that. the stealth section is smart. it takes away all of your power before giving you the whole arsenal. it makes you appreciate it more when you go from nothing to everything. feels good to rock those pirates.

the collectathon is a bit of a downer but I always play any%. there's a cleanup in every Metroid game so it isn't really that unique.
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I don't care what anyone says, Chozodia is brilliant. It evokes so many awesome emotions that are not in any other Metroid game, or even other games, and it does it all through gameplay and not boring cutscenes.

Like that one room with lots of lasers that will trip if you slightly mess up the platforming is the most mission impossible ninja spy feeling level in any game ever, especially if you do it perfectly. It makes Samus feel so badass, instead of helpless.
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My problem with Chozodia wasn't that it was a stealth section. I thought that was kind of cool. The level design felt very bland and haphazard compared to the rest of the game. Then again, whenever I harshly criticize Chozodia in the back of my head I have to ask myself whether I only prefer the other areas' aesthetics and design more because I played the original game a lot. You are right about the feeling of helplessness and how great it is to get your powers back. Cool idea, but bad execution in my opinion.
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As someone who just rushed through the game and saw how relatively simple and quick you could run through each of the other areas, I think Chozodia is definitely on par, and has some cool new stuff (and also some worse/lazier stuff). The main problem is going through as ZSS is a 100% linear path since you have no tools for sequence breaking, and then after you get your full suit there is also no sequence breaking cuz you're at the end already (except for getting the power bomb which is a cool thing too). But given those limitations, they made a really nice level.
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I thought Chozodia was solid. Managed to keep a tense atmosphere while entirely switching up how you approach the game. I typically hate when games have stealth, since I hate the genre in general, but it was more of a platforming challenge than anything. Sure the linearity is lame, but I've always enjoyed the series for atmosphere more than anything.
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bump
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So I've played a bit more of AM2R. Just finished the third sector or so. This game understands how to make each area feel unique.

What I honestly found most shocking was that the game implemented environmental features from Metroid 2 that Samus Returns omitted and frankly I forgot existed. For example, area 2 is thr hydroelectric plant in AM2R and Samus Returns. AM2R contains these pipes you blast yourself through in order to traverse from one area to the next. Those long pipes are in Metroid 2, except you spiderball through them, but make the area feel unique relative to the other areas in the game. AM2R cleverly expands upon this. Samus Returns just omits that completely in favor of some heated areas or something.

Another cool thing was that AM2R's third area has a bunch of the cobweb stuff you have to shoot away. Even though it's relatively minor, it adds a lot to differentiate the area from the others. Again, it's something Metroid 2 had but Samus Returns omitted. I honestly cannot remember anything Samus Returns did to distinguish this third area from the others. Of course AM2R added some extra stuff to flesh out the industrial feel which was great.

AM2R feels like it put a lot more care and attention into fleshing out the world and staying true to Metroid 2's design. It isn't as isolating as Metroid 2, while Samus Returns is, but that's not necessarily a bad thing.

I will say though that I find the Metroid fights in AM2R more annoying than fun. There isn't much to them and they're pretty boring. The Metroid designs thus dar are cool, but I think Samus Returns spoiled me in this regard.
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OliviaTremor posted...

Another cool thing was that AM2R's third area has a bunch of the cobweb stuff you have to shoot away. Even though it's relatively minor, it adds a lot to differentiate the area from the others.

Especially since it's where you get the wave beam so it provides a good way to show its power without the typical "shoot helpless strong enemy through a wall" thing that other metroids do
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I think am2r will continue to improve for you through the end. it's a lot more diverse than SR and there are more than like 8 enemies.

the bosses are indeed a low point, but am2r has a few unique bosses (like SR did) that are really good. the omega metroid stuff is never good though.
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Yeah I'm definitely interested in seeing the rest of the game. And Foolmo is right, the way the way they show the utility of the wave beam and spazer is pretty spot on. They don't feel like a more powerful version of the beam so much as a quality of life increase which is how it should be.
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GTM posted...

are the crystals breakable? I see a few items blocked off by them

You'll figure out when you can break them. It's something that will be automatically given to you late in the game.
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I feel like 40 might be overkill, too many Metroids to kill
Doesn't help that the last 4 are Omega Metroid and it takes 5 minutes to kill each
Unless of course I missed something and there is a faster way to kill them
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Fastest way to kill them is to be good with your melee counters. You can also use the rapid fire aeion power.
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8WkEoYvlUF0

seems relevant to this thread. haven't had a chance to watch it yet
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shadosneko posted...

Fastest way to kill them is to be good with your melee counters.

They very rarely do the counterable moves. The Metroid fights are too long and the second-worst part of the game after the Ridley fight.

Seriously, they thought they made fun combat but they didn't.
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I've been wondering what a speed run would look like cause it seems like it would be entirely dependent on how fast you can kill those bosses.
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Speedruns would be weird since I think the Metroids randomly decide to do an attack you can counter. That sort of RNG can seriously screw a run. Then again, I imagine really good players will find a way to take them down ridiculously fast without relying on counters.
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I'm confused, Ridley was an awesome fight, just straight up combat free to just fly around and constantly blast his ass.

Generally love the boss fights, really.
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Yeah that fight was great from a gameplay perspective. Don't get why people are dissing it.
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What do you find enjoyable about a bullet sponge? It's so fucking boring.
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Bullet sponge?
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I guess what he means is the boss' patterns are easy to memorize and predict so it's just a long battle.
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I started AM2R (just a test run, I don't have to play it for real)
So uh..I know I picked normal but still, every enemy in the beginning hit me for 5 damage
But in Samus Returns it's 30+
Does AM2R gets more challenging or what
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MSR has a good combat system, and Ridley lets you just play around with him. Honestly I just wasn't looking for a new complicated battle at the time since I was satisfied with the Queen Metroid, Ridley was just a finally hurrah for me.
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Nanis23 posted...

Does AM2R gets more challenging or what

no
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Must not be a fan of the other Ridley fights then.

Nanis23 posted...

Does AM2R gets more challenging or what

AM2R is a very easy game. Only thing I had difficulty on was Omega Metroids, but they apparently nerfed them in later patches.
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that's not a bad thing really. Zero Mission is a joke and is amazing.
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transcience posted...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8WkEoYvlUF0

seems relevant to this thread. haven't had a chance to watch it yet

Just watched this. Good vid. Glad that quite a few people seem upset about the remade ending.
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transcience posted...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8WkEoYvlUF0

seems relevant to this thread. haven't had a chance to watch it yet

wow, this video is amazing. Notyou, you'll adore this take. don't watch it until you finish AM2R though.
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I like the guy's other videos btw
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as in they're worth watching too
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That guy is occasionally good but most of his vids are just him gushing over his own opinion without actually analyzing anything useful
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I agree

this one's good
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I've only ever seen his genre discussion video on "Soulslike" as it's own genre, which was neat.
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http://vgmaps.com/Atlas/GB-GBC/MetroidII-ReturnOfSamus-SR388.png

Looking at this map after playing Samus Returns upsets me a lot. I grew up playing Metroid 2 on the GBC. A common criticism I keep hearing is that everything looks the same and no area is unique. Total bullshit. It sucks Nintendo never re-released the game with the GBC palette, instead opting for black and white on the virtual console release, but goddamn. That world has so much more personality than Samus Returns.
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Looks super samey to me. That one yellow sections looks a bit fresh at best. AM2R made these zones look pretty badass though.

Also looks like that god damn pointless waterfall section was indeed from the original
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You haven't played Samus Returns yet have you Foolmo? Those tiles have more personality than any of the foregrounds or backgrounds in Samus Returns.
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OliviaTremor posted...

You haven't played Samus Returns yet have you Foolmo? Those tiles have more personality than any of the foregrounds or backgrounds in Samus Returns.

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What was the point of bolding Samus Returns?
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OliviaTremor posted...

What was the point of bolding Samus Returns?

You said it twice. <_< I assume you intended the first one to be Return of Samus.
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No, I meant what I said. I don't think Foolmo's played the 3DS version yet. My critique was that the tiles from from Return of Samus evoke more from me than the 3DS remake which I find washed out and bland. But it could be a preference for pixels.
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I bought Mertoid: Sheamus Reruns today.

Feeling good about this.
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foolm0r0n posted...

Also looks like that god damn pointless waterfall section was indeed from the original

It was put in to show the player just how empty the Queen's hive has made the surrounding area, and what it could eventually do to the rest of the planet. It's showing the scale of which the Metroids have affected a once great civilization, so much that an area teeming with clean, running water is void of any form of life. It's probably too long though, and maybe you don't care about the story the game was trying to tell, but it does have a point.
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so, thoughts about SR.

having to hold L to spider ball was horrible. The Queen Metroid fight was physically painful for this reason. terrible.
The metroid fights were really cool, but they probably did too much damage. Also, the Gamma metroids in area 3 running around outlasted it's welcome
The enemies lack variety. AM2R did that way better.
The ares lack identity, especially compared to AM2R, though that game has some of the best worldbuilding in the 2d series, so it's a tough act to follow.
the music was bad. it had very little identity. Lower Norfair remix was cool but almost never consistent. best music was probably the Maridia remix in area 5.
the Aeon abilities were mostly ok, but not very special. being given the Area scan so early sort of removed a lot of the exploration, not sure how I feel about that.
Melee counter was a bit too powerful against normal enemies and made a lot of the combat very reactive, this stopped after getting some of the higher-end beams.Against Metroids it was fine.
waiting for the teleporter and elevator cutscenes got a little old when going for 100%

I did have fun, except when I was upset about the control scheme. I don't think I'll be replaying it much. if it sets the stage for future 2D Metroids, then that's fine. but in terms of being a "classic" 2D metroid and a remake of Metroid 2 it's eclipsed by AM2R IMO.
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I must be the only Metroid vet who liked the scan. Made up for the lack of map stations. >_>
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