Current Events > Hillary Clinton thinks the moral of 1984 was to trust the media *HRC confirms*

(+) Yeah! (+)

shockthemonkey posted...

Can't be much sillier than you having not read 1984

Says a guy who sees no issue with Hillary Clinton telling people that 1984 was implying you should trust politician-controlled media....

Ya know, I'm getting more and more suspicious that you hadn't read anything of 1984 beyond some cliffnotes after posting in this topic. Why else would you constantly insist that I hadn't read it despite you never referencing specific parts of it unless it's in some ill-advised attempt to throw off the trail? And how else could you possibly not see the clear correlations between CNN and Minitru?
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Mal_Fet posted...

The mainstream media is a de facto branch of government at this point, lmao

Which government? The current government gets constantly scrutinized by the media.
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shockthemonkey posted...

CNN literally gets called fake by a tons of people, including in the media, every day. CNN is not the only media organization that is legally allowed to exist. You are not legally obliged to believe CNN.

You have a fundamental misunderstanding of the difference between a free press that includes propaganda and a state controlled media you are legally required to believe.

^
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shockthemonkey posted...

CNN literally gets called fake by a tons of people, including in the media, every day. CNN is not the only media organization that is legally allowed to exist. You are not legally obliged to believe CNN.

Hillary is calling Trump a bad person for saying outlets like CNN are fake news. You're sort of giving up the ghost by using that as a defense now.

God what's wrong with you people. It's a politician-controlled media outlet that for several days acts like pardoning Arpaio is a horrendous crime when thry didn't appear to care one bit when Obama pardoned an actual terrorist who killed people.
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Lol mal_fet flopic implosion
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She is so corrupt
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shockthemonkey posted...

Mal_Fet posted...

shockthemonkey posted...

CNN literally gets called fake by a tons of people, including in the media, every day. CNN is not the only media organization that is legally allowed to exist. You are not legally obliged to believe CNN.

Hillary is calling Trump a bad person for saying outlets like CNN are fake news. You're sort of giving up the ghost by using that as a defense now.

God what's wrong with you people. It's a politician-controlled media outlet that for several days acts like pardoning Arpaio is a horrendous crime when thry didn't appear to care one bit when Obama pardoned an actual terrorist who killed people.

You have a fundamental misunderstanding of the difference between a free press that includes propaganda and a state controlled media you are legally required to believe.

Fundamental misunderstanding of what Clinton was saying, too.

this
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Lol Mal
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Mal_Fet posted...

scar the 1 posted...

I don't think I've ever seen a bigger fan of something misunderstand it so fundamentally.

You all keep saying this yet no one seems able to explain how the media is not similarly controlled by lying politicians, exactly the sort of media 1984 warns of.

No one needs to explain it. It is your accusation so the burden of proof is on you to explain how the media IS doing that
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ImTheMacheteGuy posted...

Mal_Fet posted...

scar the 1 posted...

I don't think I've ever seen a bigger fan of something misunderstand it so fundamentally.

You all keep saying this yet no one seems able to explain how the media is not similarly controlled by lying politicians, exactly the sort of media 1984 warns of.

No one needs to explain it. It is your accusation so the burden of proof is on you to explain how the media IS doing that

They conceal inconvenient facts about the DNC, they rig their news and debates against opponents of the DNC establishment, they lie to the public in order to defend DNC politicians, they push fake narrarives about opposing politicians, they vilify anyone who are politically opposed to them as bigots and Nazis, and they call for overturning fair and free elections that don't turn out their way.

Are they exactly like the media from 1984 in every single way? No, but if the DNC had absolute power there would be no significant difference.
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she very clearly says you need to trust your leaders and the media

which is the exact opposite of what 1984 is about
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Mal_Fet posted...

ImTheMacheteGuy posted...

Mal_Fet posted...

scar the 1 posted...

I don't think I've ever seen a bigger fan of something misunderstand it so fundamentally.

You all keep saying this yet no one seems able to explain how the media is not similarly controlled by lying politicians, exactly the sort of media 1984 warns of.

No one needs to explain it. It is your accusation so the burden of proof is on you to explain how the media IS doing that

They conceal inconvenient facts about the DNC, they rig their news and debates against opponents of the DNC establishment, they lie to the public in order to defend DNC politicians, they push fake narrarives about opposing politicians, they vilify anyone who are politically opposed to them as bigots and Nazis, and they call for overturning fair and free elections that don't turn out their way.

Lots and lots of words.

No proof. :(
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ImTheMacheteGuy posted...

Lots and lots of words.

No proof. :(

Were you living under a rock for the past year or something
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The media in 1984 =/= the media irl

AlternativeFAQS posted...

The media in 1984 =/= the media irl

so the message of the book was

"believe the media in real life because the media in our book is fictional" ?


LMAO
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Wait she was saying the media in the book were the good guys?

sondast posted...

DuranOfForcena posted...

nothing about that paragraph says or implies anything even close to what the topic title claims it does

Lol, exactly. It says the exact opposite. It's a criticism of authoritarianism, nothing more.
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AlternativeFAQS posted...

Wait she was saying the media in the book were the good guys?

she says:

This is what happens in George Orwell's classic novel 1984, when a torturer holds up four fingers and blah blah.

The goal is to make you question logic and reason and sow mistrust toward exactly the people you need to rely on: our leaders, the press, experts

so question

the torturer, was he not a leader or members of the press, govt? methinks he was
O'Brien is a member of the party, the govt


but her message is "see in the book when the govt leaders tortured people and tried to trick them, that is what anti-goverment people are doing and so you should trust us people in govt"

it completely debaucherizes the message of 1984 in which the press lied to trick people and control them, the government re-educated people (this torture scene)
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Nineteen Eight-Four's message: the media and the state propaganda machine are one and the same: don't trust either of them.

What Happened's message: the media and the state propaganda machine stopped being one and the same when the Republicans won the presidential election, trust only the Democrat Party as well as the media and experts officially endorsed by the Democrat Party until we can reunite with the state once again.

Is that about the gist of it?
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Mal_Fet posted...

ImTheMacheteGuy posted...

Lots and lots of words.

No proof. :(

Were you living under a rock for the past year or something

"My version of proving things is being rude and hurling insults"

You are a bad person.
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ok

here is the quote in text format since pic too hard for you guys to read


https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/sep/11/hillary-clinton-what-happened-memoir-donald-trump-1984

“Attempting to define reality is a core feature of authoritarianism,” the defeated presidential candidate writes in What Happened, published on Tuesday. “This is what the Soviets did when they erased political dissidents from historical photos. This is what happens in George Orwell’s classic novel Nineteen Eighty-Four, when a torturer holds up four fingers and delivers electric shocks until his prisoner sees five fingers as ordered.”

The goal is to make you question logic and and reason and to sow mistrust

actually notice the guardian MISQUOTES here, because the tc has an actual picture of the book's page
i ended the quote from guardian before the skipped several sentences


right wing media actually is more accurate reporting it here
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2017/sep/14/hillary-clinton-lesson-1984-trust-leaders-press/

“Attempting to define reality is a core feature of authoritarianism,” Mrs. Clinton writes. “This is what the Soviets did when they erased political dissidents from historical photos. This is what happens in George Orwell’s classic novel Nineteen Eighty-Four, when a torturer holds up four fingers and delivers electric shocks until his prisoner sees five fingers as ordered.

“The goal is to make you question logic and reason and to sow mistrust towards exactly the people we need to rely on: our leaders, the press, experts who seek to guide public policy based on evidence, ourselves,”

so she is saying

the authoritarians are trying to trick the public by sowing mistrust for leaders and the press

but the problem is the person in 1984 who was tricking the guy was a member of the leading party who job was to re-educate the public to believe the government without questioning it
Trump wasn't in power during the election, Hillary's party was....
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darkphoenix181 posted...

This is what happens in George Orwell's classic novel 1984, when a torturer holds up four fingers and blah blah.

The goal is to make you question logic and reason and sow mistrust toward exactly the people you need to rely on: our leaders, the press, experts

The implication being that saying the media is dishonest is equivent to saying 4 = 5

Which is fucking wrong.
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Mal_Fet posted...

The implication being that saying the media is dishonest is equivent to saying 4 = 5

Which is f***ing wrong.

yeah notice how the guardian, a reputed liberal news site misquotes her likely on purpose

“Attempting to define reality is a core feature of authoritarianism,” the defeated presidential candidate writes in What Happened, published on Tuesday. “This is what the Soviets did when they erased political dissidents from historical photos. This is what happens in George Orwell’s classic novel Nineteen Eighty-Four, when a torturer holds up four fingers and delivers electric shocks until his prisoner sees five fingers as ordered.”
The goal is to make you question logic and and reason and to sow mistrust, Clinton writes. “For Trump, as with so much he does, it’s about simple dominance.”

then actual line is not
For Trump, as with so much he does, it’s about simple dominance

but

The goal is to make you question logic and reason and to sow mistrust towards exactly the people we need to rely on: our leaders, the press, experts who seek to guide public policy based on evidence, ourselves


I mean, we have a picture of the actual book's print

anyone with the book confirm for a double confirm?


what was the intent of the guardian for leaving off the end of that sentence and placing another sentence in its place?
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@darkphoenix181

The full text from the book is:

This is what happens in George Orwell's classic novel Nineteen Eighty-Four, when a torturer holds up four fingers and delivers electric shocks until his prisoner sees five fingers as ordered. The goal is to make you question logic and reason and to sow mistrust toward exactly the people we need to rely on: our leaders, the press, experts who seek to guide public policy based on evidence, ourselves. For Trump, as with so much he does, it's about simple dominance.

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