Board 8 > Freedom, Liberty, Ron Paul - 1+1=3 [dwmf]

(+) Yeah! (+)

I mean the NFL is still number one for now so...
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SmartMuffin posted...

TheRock1525 posted...

So what do you think is going to replace football as the major North American sport? Because ratings were kinda sagging before Kaep kneeling.

Nothing. There's no ironclad law that we have to have a "major" sport.

There kinda has to be a number 1 sport in America based on viewership and revenue, so something would have to supplant the NFL if it's supposedly a "sinking ship."
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isn't baseball really big in the US too? (this is my impression from a foreign perspective.)
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Oh well sure, they'll probably technically be "#1" for a long time, sure. But their days of being #1 by a mile and being super mainstream and being relevant to virtually every male (and about half of females) from the ages of 5 - 80 are over. The market is going to fracture and fragment in a major way. And instead of trying to prevent that, they're actively trying to court it. Society is becoming increasingly politically divided and instead of saying to themselves "we achieved a dominant position by not taking sides, so let's try and do that" they're basically saying "TAKE SIDES TAKE SIDES" then being just shocked that their ratings are down and that every time they make a political statement (or choose not to make one, because the precedent has been set that making political statements is on the table for them), half the country hates them.

I especially love how individual owners are making anti-Trump statements while still refusing to sign Kapernick. The ultimate "everyone else should look out for the social good, but eh, this would hurt my pocketbook so I'll pass." They all know that their fans would hate them and it would hit them in the wallet. And yet, Trump is the evil guy for saying so. Put your money where your mouth is (down the toilet) or shut up.

And no, baseball isn't big. Not nationally at least. It's a super regional thing. It's big in Boston and Chicago and St. Louis and occasionally in other cities where a team happens to be pretty good for a few years (San Francisco, DC, etc.) but nationwide it's irrelevant.

Maybe the future landscape looks something like this.

Blue-collar, blue-tribe: Flag football (seriously, I know you guys don't think CTE is political, but it is, and it's the left who cares)
White-collar, blue-tribe: Soccer (what better way to reject America than by embracing Eurosport!)
Blue-collar, red-tribe: UFC (the ultimate redpill championship)
White-collar, red-tribe: Golf (top tax bracket required for membership)
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and by the way, it almost seems like Trump has created a situation wherein, leftist celebrities, thinking that it'll be a great way to stick it to Trump, are going to disrespect the flag and the national anthem, that's SUCH a huge win for Trump it's almost mind-boggling master wizardry.

My guess is, many more players will be kneeling today and ESPN and the NFL will promote this as a victory for the left and a defeat for Trump, when in reality, it's the exact opposite.
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Actually it's very likely to be a win because the controversy is more likely to create an uptick in viewership than a downturn, as there will be more people tuning in just to see what happens.

I think you're wrong about a lot of stuff but really don't have time to argue it, because the NFL still pulls monster ratings and these decreases are not league threatening.
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Actually it's very likely to be a win because the controversy is more likely to create an uptick in viewership than a downturn, as there will be more people tuning in just to see what happens.

I don't think that's true. It certainly wasn't true last year.

And when I say it's "a win for Trump" I mean it makes it more likely he'll win in 2020, not that it hurts the NFL's pocketbook (which is not what he cares about)

The more images you have of the left disrespecting the flag and the anthem, the more it looks like Trump has a point. Even the organized left eventually figured this out and stopped sending paid protesters to Trump rallys to burn American flags. But Goodell and NFL players are amateurs who don't understand strategy, so they'll play right into his hands unless George Soros calls them up and is all "dudes, you aren't helping here..."
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Trump is a widely unpopular president who barely squeaked out 100k votes in the states he needed to be elected. The only way he's reelected is if the economy stays largely on the path it's going and doesn't hit any major downturns or the Democrats somehow nominate someone worse than Hillary.
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kneeling isn't disrespect god fuck
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It is to some people.

People that were gonna vote Trump anyway in 2020.
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CelesMyUserName posted...

kneeling isn't disrespect god fuck

when the anthem plays, you are politely asked to stand

to not only refuse to stand, but to deliberately kneel is to intentionally do the exact opposite of the thing your host (the stadium, who takes its marching instructions from the owners, who are literally the players boss) has politely asked you to do

I mean I guess we can get really technical about whether that's "disrespect" or whatever, but it's certainly pretty damn close

like, if you go to someone's house and they politely ask you to take off your shoes, but instead of doing that, you swap out your shoes for a muddier pair of shoes and start jumping on their couch, that's probably not a cool thing to do, even if you're totally only doing it to protest racism
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and if you try and be all ACTHKTUALLY THE CONSTITUTION PROTECTS MY RIGHT TO WEAR MUDDY SHOES INDOORS you're completely missing the point and are just being a dick
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I mean, wearing muddy shoes in someone's private home is not actually a 'protest' in front of a national audience with the aim of drawing attention to a geniune, relevent issue of social justice.

But yeah, totally valid analogy. Good job there.
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yeah so long as it's for social justice all rude and deliberately provocative behavior is acceptable I guess

thanks for 100% accurately summing up what the left thinks and why people are continuing to reject them
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SmartMuffin posted...

yeah so long as it's for social justice all rude and deliberately provocative behavior is acceptable I guess

thanks for 100% accurately summing up what the left thinks and why people are continuing to reject them

Haha. This is the most 'Smartmuffin' post ever. Thanks for proving to everyone that you simply don't get the act of protesting on a conceptual level.

Protests are always seen as disrespectful. Usually they technically are!

If a bus driver asks you to give up your seat...

And you are legally required to do so...

It absolutely is 'rude' and ' disrespectful' to refuse...

rude to the drivers, to the other customers, and to the LAW.

The POINT of all protests is to intentionally disrespect a minor social norm, in order to draw attention to a FAR GREATER EVIL in society.

And yes, there are always going to be people very loudly screaming about the mote in the protestors' eyes while they ignore the log in their own that led to the protest in the first place. Relevant link from the politics topic:

https://mobile.twitter.com/Patrick_Wyman/status/911773266305417216
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TheRock1525 posted...

So what do you think is going to replace football as the major North American sport? Because ratings were kinda sagging before Kaep kneeling.

Dota
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SmartMuffin posted...

and if you try and be all ACTHKTUALLY THE CONSTITUTION PROTECTS MY RIGHT TO WEAR MUDDY SHOES INDOORS you're completely missing the point and are just being a dick

Is there any possibility that this irony is acknowledged by the "durr its censorship to get fired for saying the n word" crowd? That would be a big win
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The reason people hate the anthem protestors and such is NOT AT ALL because it is disrespectful. It's because it's pro-black and trying to acknowledge that government didn't actually magically solve racism in 1964. There are TONS of disrespectful protests that white people do that are not at all offensive to Trump supporters and the nation in general. Flying the confederate flag, saying the n word, anti immigrant stuff, communist rallies, not signing Kaepernick, defending statues which Robert E Lee himself despised, supporting the drug war, school shootings, even voting Trump to disrespect the presidency.

There is not even 1 millisecond of thought that a protest is too disrespectful or offensive, when it is pro-white. It's not a left/right thing either. It's literally just white vs black.

Its impossible for any pro-black protest to be seen as reasonable and respectful, when it's still offensive and disrespectful for black people to merely exist as free individuals.

So then, why give a shit about being seen as respectful? Trump will have his "blacks are disrespectful" ammo either way
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foolm0r0n posted...

TheRock1525 posted...

So what do you think is going to replace football as the major North American sport? Because ratings were kinda sagging before Kaep kneeling.

Dota

you joke but this is part of it

esports have to be stealing market share from SOMEWHERE
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foolm0r0n posted...

The reason people hate the anthem protestors and such is NOT AT ALL because it is disrespectful. It's because it's pro-black and trying to acknowledge that government didn't actually magically solve racism in 1964. There are TONS of disrespectful protests that white people do that are not at all offensive to Trump supporters and the nation in general. Flying the confederate flag, saying the n word, anti immigrant stuff, communist rallies, not signing Kaepernick, defending statues which Robert E Lee himself despised, supporting the drug war, school shootings, even voting Trump to disrespect the presidency.

There is not even 1 millisecond of thought that a protest is too disrespectful or offensive, when it is pro-white. It's not a left/right thing either. It's literally just white vs black.

Its impossible for any pro-black protest to be seen as reasonable and respectful, when it's still offensive and disrespectful for black people to merely exist as free individuals.

So then, why give a shit about being seen as respectful? Trump will have his "blacks are disrespectful" ammo either way

its almost hilarious how wrong you are

http://deadspin.com/detroits-lions-ban-racist-fan-from-stadium-1811576833

if a white person is caught using the n-word they are instantly and permanently banned from the nfl

and this wasn't even like "he got in a fight with some black people and was kicked out" this was literally a social media witchhunt
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SmartMuffin posted...

if a white person is caught using the n-word they are instantly and permanently banned from the nfl

and all the NFL fans and Trump supports cheered?
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SmartMuffin posted...

if a white person is caught using the n-word they are instantly and permanently banned from the nfl

and this wasn't even like "he got in a fight with some black people and was kicked out" this was literally a social media witchhunt

you're missing the bigger picture. obviously there are always people who will object to protests, the question is how many people will object and how impactful the objection is.

when a white person uses the n-word, they may be "banned from the NFL" but it's not like it changes the whole nation. most people don't care that much.

but when there's a disrespectful pro-black protest suddenly you're all "THIS IS WHY PEOPLE CONTINUE TO REJECT THE LEFT." apparently a direspectful pro-black protest is such a big deal that it would literally impact the outcome of the 2020 election.

(note that for the sake of the argument i'm assuming your usage of the terms "right" and "left" is correct, which is HIGHLY questionable as well. lol @ the idea that there would be "continued" rejection of the left, as if a mega pro-big government president like trump is extremely right-wing. ron paul being president would be "rejection of the left," trump being president isn't.)
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also, it's funny because we've JUST had the pewdiepie controversy, during which we had tons of people passionately defending him and stating that having a problem with him using the n-word is "SJW bullshit." you seriously think people in general think a white person using the n-word is a big deal?
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To make it more clear:

"White dude used n word at football stadium" is not national news

White dudes using the n word at football stadiums is not killing the NFL and causing white supremacists to be elected president

White dudes using the n word at football stadiums is not justification for increased militarization and brutality of police, or aggressive foreign intervention campaigns
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Also I don't get the lack of self-awareness when people who say NFL players taking a knee causes Trump don't understand that Trump attacking 1 NFL player for taking a knee causes 100 more NFL players to take a knee (and NBA now too apparently)
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foolm0r0n posted...

Also I don't get the lack of self-awareness when people who say NFL players taking a knee causes Trump don't understand that Trump attacking 1 NFL player for taking a knee causes 100 more NFL players to take a knee (and NBA now too apparently)

I just told you. Trump WANTS more players to take a knee. That earns him more votes.
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foolm0r0n posted...

Also I don't get the lack of self-awareness when people who say NFL players taking a knee causes Trump don't understand that Trump attacking 1 NFL player for taking a knee causes 100 more NFL players to take a knee (and NBA now too apparently)

which in turn just causes 100 more trumps! It's a vicious cycle.
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SmartMuffin posted...

I just told you. Trump WANTS more players to take a knee. That earns him more votes.

And that's what you and other sports fans want too right?

The point is very obvious: Trump's goals are exactly opposite yours. Trump wants hyper-polarization and politicization, because that gets him votes. Of course, there are thousands of ways to achieve that, so the NFL stuff isn't at fault there. But, all the Trump supporters ARE at fault for rewarding Trump's polarization tactics (specifically the white side), and then crying about how everything is political.

(It's arguable whether he does want votes though. It would also require him to have a premeditated plan, instead of just spewing stuff.)
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So if Trump is using this to earn votes, what about all the shit he does to lose votes?
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https://twitter.com/charlesrandall/status/911987526541430784

the most foolmo tweet ever, instead of actually listening to customers, just tell them they're wrong

(and even better, the clarifying replies after it basically say "actually the guy was write but it's his own fault because our customers suck)
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What customer? Listen to what? Honestly just say what you mean instead of inventing stuff out of nowhere all the time, it's soooo tiring
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The customer was the person saying "be more candid." He was providing constructive criticism.

The response was "oh I'm already doing that" (which is the WORST possible way to respond to criticism ever as it just makes you appear tone deaf), immediately followed by "okay well actually im not but the only reason im not is because it's annoying to do"
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SmartMuffin posted...

https://twitter.com/charlesrandall/status/911987526541430784

the most foolmo tweet ever, instead of actually listening to customers, just tell them they're wrong

(and even better, the clarifying replies after it basically say "actually the guy was write but it's his own fault because our customers suck)

It's interesting. Wizards of the Coast has been extremely candid about Magic design for well over a decade now, to the point that they have a monthly column dedicated to giving their players the inside story behind the design process and philosophy. They obviously have never felt threatened by a "toxic Magic player" blowback as they continue to do this. I wonder what the difference is?
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one is an actual successful company with decades of experience surviving in a competitive marketplace

the other is some millennial indie dude who assumes he knows better than all of those people
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SmartMuffin posted...

one is an actual successful company with decades of experience surviving in a competitive marketplace

the other is some millennial indie dude who assumes he knows better than all of those people

Is this dude unique in the game industry? That was not my impression.
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unique?

nah, there's millions of wannabe indie devs out there who think they know better than the professionals
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So professional game devs are never reluctant to talk about game development with their fans?
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It was a conversation between friends. And he was literally being candid.

But fine, imagine it was a customer who just came up to him and said that. That's not providing criticism, it's just voicing a displeasure, like that kid who came up to him and said devs suck (to whom he was also candid). It's not actionable or relevant to anything like criticism is. It's just an opinion coming from ignorance.

The response to that is to either educate them (hard to do, which is why you usually only do it in private with friends/students/etc like this guy), or you give them what they ACTUALLY want, which is rarely what they say. Or you determine they aren't actually your customer and ignore them.

For example, if gamers REALLY wanted candid devs, they could go to tigsource or gamasutra or a dev convention and get tons of candid behind the scene stuff. But when you see that the gamer response to reading ONE candid gamasutra article is to launch a ravenous multi-year anti-dev hate campaign, then mayyyyybe they don't actually want that. Maybe they just wanted nice, fun, tightly-choreographed blog posts, reddit AMAs, and behind the scenes interviews from the marketing team.

It can get worse though. "Devs should me more candid" could also mean "I want more reasons to rage and hate devs and go deeper into this hateful online identity that I have come to value and identity with so strongly". In that case, it becomes a bit immoral to give them what they want... easier to just decide they are not your customer.
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redrocket_pub posted...

a monthly column dedicated to giving their players the inside story behind the design process and philosophy

See I told you
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Basically, that tweet is not for gamers, it's for devs. If you don't understand the context of it, then you are not the audience for it. Don't forcibly mangle it into your own context and then complain about it. That is exactly what GG idiots do to gamasutra articles.
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https://i.redd.it/66idmlnmfynz.jpg
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So not only are they costing the league money by enraging their core customer base, they're literally putting the owners in breach of their contract with the US government.

It's in the NFL rules that they have to stand. The "say" they have in it comes in labor negotiations. They're re-negotiated their collective bargaining agreement with the league multiple times since 2009. If they don't like it, they should negotiate for it, or find a different job. They are literally paid entertainers. If someone says "stand up at this time" then you do it.
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SmartMuffin posted...

they're literally putting the owners in breach of their contract with the US government

and people out here still say it isn't an effective form of anti-government protest
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SmartMuffin posted...

It's in the NFL rules that they have to stand.

No. There is literally nothing in the rules that even mentions the anthem at all.
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there's also nothing in the rules that says a dog can't play football

really makes you think
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https://twitter.com/nytopinion/status/912469539283177472

literal NYT headline
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btw "all its flaws" includes like 50 million dead people
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Reminds me of how people praise Trump for "shaking up US politics"
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what exactly has trump done that you think is comparable to 50 million murders
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Lots of things. Comparable is a very low bar. The only thing it needs is the "for all its flaws" rhetoric.
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