Poll of the Day > Wow. Almost 2 weeks into Sept without a school shooting.

(+) Yeah! (+)

Good job in keeping your shit together so far America.
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The stupid trollish things edgelords say. Granted, when was the *last* major school shooting? Because in general there haven't been that many. In fact, we haven't had a REAL school shooting -- ie, what people actually think of what they hear school shooting, not a workplace spat where a man kills his ex-wife who works at a school -- since Oregon community college in 2015.
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Just generally impressed since its so common in our news cycle.

The last one was in Irving, Texas on May 4th.

And Zeus, don't you usually do a little light research before you toss the lightning bolts of nay. Because saying that there hasn't been that many is uninformed. Wikipedia has a long list going back into the 1800's.
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This is a pretty fucked up topic, regardless of whatever country anyone talks about

I'm always curious why people post things like this. What are you trying to achieve here
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Thanks for jinxing it, jerk-face
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Firewood18 posted...

Just generally impressed since its so common in our news cycle.

The last one was in Irving, Texas on May 4th.

And Zeus, don't you usually do a little light research before you toss the lightning bolts of nay. Because saying that there hasn't been that many is uninformed. Wikipedia has a long list going back into the 1800's.

The difference between us is that I actually took the time to read that list, which you clearly did not. However, let's look at some of these "school shootings," shall we?

May 4 2017 - Stalker killed his crush and then himself. Not really a school shooting.

April 10 2017 - Man goes to school to kill his ex-wife and then himself, also killing a student in the process. Again, not really a school shooting. (Which, by the way, is the incident alluded to in my previous post.)

Jan 20 2017 - Student tries to shoot other student in bathroom. Again, not really what comes to mind when somebody thinks "school shooting."

And that's EVERYTHING that happened in 2017. Unlike what people think about when they hear "school shooting" -- ie, an indiscriminate rampage going for a body count (Columbine, Sandy Hook, Virginia Tech, etc) -- all of these were targeted attacks which merely happened to take place at a school. Likewise, the wikipedia list -- if it's the same one circulated on MJ, etc -- includes shootings between non-students which happened NEAR a school.

mastermix3000 posted...

This is a pretty fucked up topic, regardless of whatever country anyone talks about

I'm always curious why people post things like this. What are you trying to achieve here

Yes, it's very fucked up to make a topic joking about this.
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y
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The last one I can remember is the one is Marysville Washington in 2014.
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mastermix3000 posted...

This is a pretty fucked up topic, regardless of whatever country anyone talks about

I'm always curious why people post things like this. What are you trying to achieve here

Humor is the #2 best way to deal with sadness in the world.
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Lightning Bolt posted...

mastermix3000 posted...

This is a pretty fucked up topic, regardless of whatever country anyone talks about

I'm always curious why people post things like this. What are you trying to achieve here

Humor is the #2 best way to deal with sadness in the world.

There's something of a difference between actually using humor to cope with grief and just making a joke out of tragedy.
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if I had to pick my poison i'd take a shooting over a bombing. one you at least have a slim chance of escaping. and its scary to think how easy it is to make a bomb if people just bothered to learn it. common house hold cleaners will do the trick, much easier to obtain than a gun. though i'm sure it would take a lot to make a bomb that would rack up a high kill count.

hell I remember a story of a bombing done in this country in I wanna say the 20s done with a horse drawn carriage, forget what they used for the explosives but they also packed the carriage full of metallic objects to act as shrapnel. people want people dead they find a way.

and i've said it before i'll say it again america doesn't have a gun problem so much as it has a crime problem. one way or another our culture has become a breeding ground for criminals and mentally unstable people. but its simple for me really. live in a rural area 90% of that shit doesn't happen out where I live.
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Read an article about how some girl wanted to do that because she wasn't allowed to wear some super short and tight short shorts or something.
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The topic of school shootings does affect me personally in more ways than one (not going to elaborate). I simply bring it up because I think about it.

I'm going by the basic definition of a shooting taking place in a school.

tbh Zeus is the first and only person I've actually considered ignoring here. His constant retorts are mostly just annoying but then he'll either make a rare good point or make me laugh (Archie Bunker statue).
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The first American school shooting was in the 1700s. An Indian war party attacked a frontier schoolhouse...

mastermix3000 posted...

This is a pretty fucked up topic, regardless of whatever country anyone talks about

I'm always curious why people post things like this. What are you trying to achieve here

Mr. Firewood is burnin' right now.
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Zeus posted...

May 4 2017 - Stalker killed his crush and then himself. Not really a school shooting.

April 10 2017 - Man goes to school to kill his ex-wife and then himself, also killing a student in the process. Again, not really a school shooting. (Which, by the way, is the incident alluded to in my previous post.)

Jan 20 2017 - Student tries to shoot other student in bathroom. Again, not really what comes to mind when somebody thinks "school shooting."

And that's EVERYTHING that happened in 2017. Unlike what people think about when they hear "school shooting" -- ie, an indiscriminate rampage going for a body count (Columbine, Sandy Hook, Virginia Tech, etc) -- all of these were targeted attacks which merely happened to take place at a school

I mean, they're still bad for the same reason that school shootings are bad. You've got somebody with more access to guns than to mental health services killing children at school. That's really not something you should be trying to downplay.

_AdjI_ posted...

Zeus posted...

May 4 2017 - Stalker killed his crush and then himself. Not really a school shooting.

April 10 2017 - Man goes to school to kill his ex-wife and then himself, also killing a student in the process. Again, not really a school shooting. (Which, by the way, is the incident alluded to in my previous post.)

Jan 20 2017 - Student tries to shoot other student in bathroom. Again, not really what comes to mind when somebody thinks "school shooting."

And that's EVERYTHING that happened in 2017. Unlike what people think about when they hear "school shooting" -- ie, an indiscriminate rampage going for a body count (Columbine, Sandy Hook, Virginia Tech, etc) -- all of these were targeted attacks which merely happened to take place at a school

I mean, they're still bad for the same reason that school shootings are bad. You've got somebody with more access to guns than to mental health services killing children at school. That's really not something you should be trying to downplay.

think his point is, its more of a murder than a school shooting. school shooting gives the implication of mass murder. also there was a story of a guy going into a school with a compound bow and shooting a dude in the head, should we restrict access to bows as well? hell they are easy enough to make if you know what the hell you are doing.
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mooreandrew58 posted...

think his point is, its more of a murder than a school shooting. school shooting gives the implication of mass murder.

Which is a fairly silly implication because school shootings are still really bad even when they don't have a sizable body count.

mooreandrew58 posted...

also there was a story of a guy going into a school with a compound bow and shooting a dude in the head, should we restrict access to bows as well? hell they are easy enough to make if you know what the hell you are doing.

It should be more restricted than access to mental health services, at least. Which is to say mental health services need to be vastly improved, since as you pointed out, completely restricting access to weaponry is pretty much impossible.

_AdjI_ posted...

mooreandrew58 posted...

think his point is, its more of a murder than a school shooting. school shooting gives the implication of mass murder.

Which is a fairly silly implication because school shootings are still really bad even when they don't have a sizable body count.

mooreandrew58 posted...

also there was a story of a guy going into a school with a compound bow and shooting a dude in the head, should we restrict access to bows as well? hell they are easy enough to make if you know what the hell you are doing.

It should be more restricted than access to mental health services, at least. Which is to say mental health services need to be vastly improved, since as you pointed out, completely restricting access to weaponry is pretty much impossible.

part of the problem is people who are evaluated with mental problems, the doctors don't push the paper work that would infact keep them from getting guns, we do have laws an procedures in place to prevent shit like this, but not enough are doing their job to ensure it works. also loopholes like I knew a felon who had access to guns, they where his wife's guns and she swore she kept them in a locked safe he didn't know the code for, yet you saw his ass shooting them in his back yard all the time.

and i'm not saying murder isn't bad, but I just dislike it when things are mislabeled as it gives people the wrong idea, and i'm sorry murdering 20+ people is way worse than a single person. both are bad but one is clearly worse. the media love sensationalism and they achieve it at times by intentionally mislabeling things like this
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So I guess zues thinks that a shooting that happens at a school isn't a school shooting?

Odd.

mooreandrew58 posted...

and i'm not saying murder isn't bad, but I just dislike it when things are mislabeled as it gives people the wrong idea, and i'm sorry murdering 20+ people is way worse than a single person.

Sure, but calling a shooting at a school a "school shooting" is not mislabelling it. Calling a shooting with one victim a "mass shooting" would be, but that's not what's being said. If people want to misinterpret it and be confused when there's only one victim, that's their prerogative, but their confusion is not a reason to downplay the significance of school shootings, no matter how many victims there are.

_AdjI_ posted...

mooreandrew58 posted...

and i'm not saying murder isn't bad, but I just dislike it when things are mislabeled as it gives people the wrong idea, and i'm sorry murdering 20+ people is way worse than a single person.

Sure, but calling a shooting at a school a "school shooting" is not mislabelling it. Calling a shooting with one victim a "mass shooting" would be, but that's not what's being said. If people want to misinterpret it and be confused when there's only one victim, that's their prerogative, but their confusion is not a reason to downplay the significance of school shootings, no matter how many victims there are.

ehh my point being people still get the wrong impression, i'd just call it a murder. I blame people who only read headlines and act like they know all the facts though.

gets a good laugh out of me when someone links a article to back up their argument though and you actually read it, and it does a 180 from what the headline said and actually goes against what they where arguing
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mooreandrew58 posted...

i'd just call it a murder.

Which doesn't capture the aggravating factor of child victims, or of making a school an unsafe place. Those are both bad things, just as having multiple victims is bad enough to warrant adding "mass" to "murder."

mooreandrew58 posted...

I blame people who only read headlines and act like they know all the facts though.

Screw those guys. If they want to be confused because they don't actually read past the headline, let them. That's their own fault, and I'm not going to compromise effective communication to make their lives easier.

_AdjI_ posted...

mooreandrew58 posted...

i'd just call it a murder.

Which doesn't capture the aggravating factor of child victims, or of making a school an unsafe place. Those are both bad things, just as having multiple victims is bad enough to warrant adding "mass" to "murder."

mooreandrew58 posted...

I blame people who only read headlines and act like they know all the facts though.

Screw those guys. If they want to be confused because they don't actually read past the headline, let them. That's their own fault, and I'm not going to compromise effective communication to make their lives easier.

oh I wasn't talking about children, I was talking the cases where someone comes in and kills a specific adult because they had some issue or another. anyone who hates a child enough to murder them has some serious serious issues.
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True that

numbers are skewed because of all the natural disasters
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Firewood18 posted...

I'm going by the basic definition of a shooting taking place in a school.

Which is an intentionally deceptive definition used by shitlords and pundits to peddle propaganda. It's designed to make people think that a guy shooting his ex-wife at her job is *exactly* the same as Columbine to cultivate the perception that the US can't go a week without a Sandy Hook.

Firewood18 posted...

tbh Zeus is the first and only person I've actually considered ignoring here.

And yet ironically I'm the person you should most be listening to right now

. _AdjI_ posted...

Which is a fairly silly implication because school shootings are still really bad even when they don't have a sizable body count.

And what's worse is using murders to prop up and perpetuate a false agenda. That's not just trivializing their deaths, it's maliciously misrepresenting them.

_AdjI_ posted...

It should be more restricted than access to mental health services, at least. Which is to say mental health services need to be vastly improved, since as you pointed out, completely restricting access to weaponry is pretty much impossible.

Which would actually do nothing to prevent most of things you're trying to define as school shootings. It might help out with the actual crazies going on a rampage, but an angry guy who wants to kill his ex isn't exactly going to be flagged for a psych eval because he doesn't seem far enough gone yet.
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I hate agreeing with Zeus, but he's right. School shooting may technically be accurate for any shooting that takes place at school, but right or wrong, it's a term that carries implications, regardless.

I agree with most of you that the nuance would be useful for calling those situations school shootings, as the environment of a school is a useful distinction to make, as a specifically safe place for children to learn, as opposed any other random location, but wishing for that nuance doesn't magically make the nuance there, unfortunately. Making a distinction between school shootings and mass school shootings would be good, but wanting it to happen doesn't magically make it so, and ignoring the implications of calling any shooting at a school a school shooting just muddies things and helps no one.
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Designs and propaganda are making millions of parents concerned about the safety of their children.

Dammit Z, did your mother have any children that lived?
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Zeus is a proud neo nazi, ok?
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Zeus posted...

Which is an intentionally deceptive definition

Using the literal definition of each word in a term to define the term is a deceptive definition? News to me. No wonder you struggle so much with "Neo-Nazi."

Zeus posted...

Which would actually do nothing to prevent most of things you're trying to define as school shootings. It might help out with the actual crazies going on a rampage, but an angry guy who wants to kill his ex isn't exactly going to be flagged for a psych eval because he doesn't seem far enough gone yet.

Except for the part where "mental health services" goes far, far beyond psych evals and subsequent treatment. Nobody snaps without warning signs or prior exacerbating factors. Having the public education needed to recognize warning signs and the society-level supports needed to mitigate those exacerbating factors all fall under the broad umbrella of "mental health services," because mental health is far, far broader than what happens after somebody is diagnosed with a mental disorder.

Zeus posted...

And what's worse is using murders to prop up and perpetuate a false agenda.

What false agenda, that people shouldn't shoot people at schools? I think that's a pretty reasonable agenda. Working toward that is a good idea, and anyone who disagrees should sodomize themselves with a cactus made of flaming thermite. Could broaden that to "people shouldn't shoot people," but school shootings are a specific enough subset of shootings that you can probably find more specific remedial efforts to focus on than if you look at the broader problem.

_AdjI_ posted...

Using the literal definition of each word in a term to define the term is a deceptive definition?

That's actually really common.
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Firewood18 posted...

before you toss the lightning bolts of nay.

Hahahaha I'm done with you lmao
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Why would you make this topic, when we're just under a day away from that one day?

If you're waiting for something horrible to happen... I would at least wait until after that day.

If you're not waiting for something horrible to happen... you might just be a good person!
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