Current Events > Are you accepting and supportive of transgender people?

Topic List	Page List: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5
Soviet_Poland 09/05/17 2:05:47 AM #206:	HippopotamusRex posted... And body is xx or xy so no matter how you feel any representation of those feelings is manifested biologically. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Klinefelter_syndrome https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turner_syndrome https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/XX_male_syndrome https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/XY_gonadal_dysgenesis Lol.... --- "He has two neurons held together by a spirochete." <cite>Soviet_Poland posted [p:886045539] in Are you ac... [t:75740046]...</cite> <quote><cite>HippopotamusRex posted...</cite> <quote>And body is xx or xy so no matter how you feel any representation of those feelings is manifested biologically.</quote> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Klinefelter_syndrome https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turner_syndrome https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/XX_male_syndrome https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/XY_gonadal_dysgenesis Lol....</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
gunplagirl 09/05/17 2:08:23 AM #207:	Soviet_Poland posted... HippopotamusRex posted... And body is xx or xy so no matter how you feel any representation of those feelings is manifested biologically. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Klinefelter_syndrome https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turner_syndrome https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/XX_male_syndrome https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/XY_gonadal_dysgenesis Lol.... Plus ones like xo. Or in fish, they don't even have the same types of chromosomes. And they can change and reproduce afterwards. So like. Absolute statements or applying false premises as though it's 100% true is outright wrong. --- Pokemon Moon FC: 1994-2190-5020 IGN: Vanessa <cite>gunplagirl posted [p:886045635] in Are you ac... [t:75740046]...</cite> <quote><cite>Soviet_Poland posted...</cite> <quote><cite>HippopotamusRex posted...</cite> <quote>And body is xx or xy so no matter how you feel any representation of those feelings is manifested biologically.</quote> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Klinefelter_syndrome https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turner_syndrome https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/XX_male_syndrome https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/XY_gonadal_dysgenesis Lol....</quote> Plus ones like xo. Or in fish, they don't even have the same types of chromosomes. And they can change and reproduce afterwards. So like. Absolute statements or applying false premises as though it's 100% true is outright wrong.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Soviet_Poland 09/05/17 2:08:53 AM #208:	gunplagirl posted... Plus ones like xo Turner syndrome is XO --- "He has two neurons held together by a spirochete." <cite>Soviet_Poland posted [p:886045649] in Are you ac... [t:75740046]...</cite> <quote><cite>gunplagirl posted...</cite> <quote>Plus ones like xo</quote> Turner syndrome is XO</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Esrac 09/05/17 2:09:37 AM #209:	Tmk posted... Callixtus posted... I think it is wrong to inflict self harm in order to match a perverse self-image. And you define transitioning as self-harm, and being transgender as perverse. This is a problem. Esrac posted... I don't distinguish between the mind and the body You know when I say mind I mean that as synonymous with brain right? So that means you do, because that's why you say being transgender is a malfunction of the brain, and it's what needs to be changed. Esrac posted... I'm not interested in buzzwords like "brainwashing". I don't view hypothetical treatments of the brain to address feelings of gender dysphoria any differently that I'd view treating the brain for other psychological or perception-based disorders. Sometimes the brain malfunctions and needs medical treatment. And sometimes a person is born with a body that is fucked up in some way. So why do you take the side of the body over the brain when a dispute happens? You have yet to adequately answer this. Both the brain and the body can be wrong. Why do you think it is the brain this time? Why is being transgender a disorder? Saying that the cause of a disorder is probably due to a malfunction in a specific body part does not make a dichotemous distinction between that body part and the rest of the body. We wouldn't set up some dichotemy between heart and body if we're talking about a heart malfunction like stenosis, so I don't separate brain and body when we talk about malfunctions in the brain. Typically speaking, trans people have otherwise healthy bodies. Normal, functional genitals, secondary sex characteristics, etc. Everything, more or less, is working as it should. Except for the dysphoria they feel regarding their actual physical body not aligning with how their brain seems to tell them it should be. That is, their bodies aren't fucked up: they're healthy and functioning properly as you'd expect them to. Now, if we have healthy, functional bodies that are otherwise normal, but the person is experiencing a sense of dysphoria because it doesn't match the sex they feel they should be, what reason is there to believe the error is with the formation of an entirely healthy body and not with the brain's perception of that body? --- http://steamcommunity.com/id/Esrac <cite>Esrac posted [p:886045675] in Are you ac... [t:75740046]...</cite> <quote><cite>Tmk posted...</cite> <quote><cite>Callixtus posted...</cite> <quote>I think it is wrong to inflict self harm in order to match a perverse self-image. </quote> And you define transitioning as self-harm, and being transgender as perverse. This is a problem. <cite>Esrac posted...</cite> <quote>I don't distinguish between the mind and the body</quote> You know when I say mind I mean that as synonymous with brain right? So that means you do, because that's why you say being transgender is a malfunction of the brain, and it's what needs to be changed. <cite>Esrac posted...</cite> <quote>I'm not interested in buzzwords like "brainwashing". I don't view hypothetical treatments of the brain to address feelings of gender dysphoria any differently that I'd view treating the brain for other psychological or perception-based disorders. Sometimes the brain malfunctions and needs medical treatment.</quote> And sometimes a person is born with a body that is fucked up in some way. So why do you take the side of the body over the brain when a dispute happens? You have yet to adequately answer this. Both the brain and the body can be wrong. Why do you think it is the brain this time? Why is being transgender a disorder?</quote> Saying that the cause of a disorder is probably due to a malfunction in a specific body part does not make a dichotemous distinction between that body part and the rest of the body. We wouldn't set up some dichotemy between heart and body if we're talking about a heart malfunction like stenosis, so I don't separate brain and body when we talk about malfunctions in the brain. Typically speaking, trans people have otherwise healthy bodies. Normal, functional genitals, secondary sex characteristics, etc. Everything, more or less, is working as it should. Except for the dysphoria they feel regarding their actual physical body not aligning with how their brain seems to tell them it should be. That is, their bodies aren't fucked up: they're healthy and functioning properly as you'd expect them to. Now, if we have healthy, functional bodies that are otherwise normal, but the person is experiencing a sense of dysphoria because it doesn't match the sex they feel they should be, what reason is there to believe the error is with the formation of an entirely healthy body and not with the brain's perception of that body?</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Callixtus 09/05/17 2:09:48 AM #210:	Soviet_Poland posted... Callixtus posted... So could you please tell me the reason why you support sex reassignment surgery and not amputation for apotemnophiliacs, despite both operations resulting in the destruction or degrading of functional body parts? Well for starters, there already are procedures that result in destruction or degradation of functional body parts. It's called a vasectomy or a tubal ligation and they're perfectly valid forms of birth control. But the real reason for the difference in your example is that no surgeon is going to perform the operation for the apotemnophiliac. First off, someone with that would be extremely rare compared to a transgendered individual. So someone coming into a surgeon's office asking for an elective amputation is going to be laughed out. That's just inviting over liability. Given it's incredible rarity, there isn't any literature supporting amputation as a valid treatment modality with good outcomes. The same can't be said for HRT or SRS, because there is some evidence to suggest it helps (albeit weak evidence). So like I get your desire to grasp for consistency here, but your incredibly esoteric zebra of an example doesn't really have a lot of real world applicability. Apotemnophilia is just not something clinicians encounter, but transgenderism is. And not addressing that component, even just psychosocially, is asking for poorer outcomes and less than standard of care for transgendered patients. Those are bad arguments. The thing about principles is that you don't have to go into the nitty gritty details about whether or not it works in practice or not, in order to affirm whether the principle is worth upholding. So we don't have to worry about whether doctors in practice will provide amputations, only that it is morally permissible for them to do so and that we as a society should support such practices at least in theory. Otherwise, 80 years ago, when no one would have conducted SRS both because of moral concerns and the technology of the time, we could have established a rule for all time that no one would ever perform a sex reassignment surgery, regardless of changes in circumstances. A vasectomy is also quite different from both SRS or amputations, by the way, so I don't think those examples are on point. First, a vasectomy is a form of birth control. It has nothing to do with the false mental image issues which are prevalent in gender dysphoria or apotemnophilia. A person getting a vasectomy just doesn't want to have children. Again, I still think this is wrongheaded because I always think it's wrong to render a human being less than functional, but it's nowhere close to SRS which attempts to completely remake a human being from one sex into the other, even though this is impossible, and only crudely done, in an attempt to match a false self-image. --- KhanofKhans, KhanJohnson, Saloonist, Basileos <cite>Callixtus posted [p:886045682] in Are you ac... [t:75740046]...</cite> <quote><cite>Soviet_Poland posted...</cite> <quote><cite>Callixtus posted...</cite> <quote>So could you please tell me the reason why you support sex reassignment surgery and not amputation for apotemnophiliacs, despite both operations resulting in the destruction or degrading of functional body parts?</quote> Well for starters, there already are procedures that result in destruction or degradation of functional body parts. It's called a vasectomy or a tubal ligation and they're perfectly valid forms of birth control. But the real reason for the difference in your example is that no surgeon is going to perform the operation for the apotemnophiliac. First off, someone with that would be extremely rare compared to a transgendered individual. So someone coming into a surgeon's office asking for an elective amputation is going to be laughed out. That's just inviting over liability. Given it's incredible rarity, there isn't any literature supporting amputation as a valid treatment modality with good outcomes. The same can't be said for HRT or SRS, because there is some evidence to suggest it helps (albeit weak evidence). So like I get your desire to grasp for consistency here, but your incredibly esoteric zebra of an example doesn't really have a lot of real world applicability. Apotemnophilia is just not something clinicians encounter, but transgenderism is. And not addressing that component, even just psychosocially, is asking for poorer outcomes and less than standard of care for transgendered patients.</quote> Those are bad arguments. The thing about principles is that you don't have to go into the nitty gritty details about whether or not it works in practice or not, in order to affirm whether the principle is worth upholding. So we don't have to worry about whether doctors in practice will provide amputations, only that it is morally permissible for them to do so and that we as a society should support such practices at least in theory. Otherwise, 80 years ago, when no one would have conducted SRS both because of moral concerns and the technology of the time, we could have established a rule for all time that no one would ever perform a sex reassignment surgery, regardless of changes in circumstances. A vasectomy is also quite different from both SRS or amputations, by the way, so I don't think those examples are on point. First, a vasectomy is a form of birth control. It has nothing to do with the false mental image issues which are prevalent in gender dysphoria or apotemnophilia. A person getting a vasectomy just doesn't want to have children. Again, I still think this is wrongheaded because I always think it's wrong to render a human being less than functional, but it's nowhere close to SRS which attempts to completely remake a human being from one sex into the other, even though this is impossible, and only crudely done, in an attempt to match a false self-image.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
HippopotamusRex 09/05/17 2:23:08 AM #211:	gunplagirl posted... Soviet_Poland posted... HippopotamusRex posted... And body is xx or xy so no matter how you feel any representation of those feelings is manifested biologically. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Klinefelter_syndrome https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turner_syndrome https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/XX_male_syndrome https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/XY_gonadal_dysgenesis Lol.... Plus ones like xo. Or in fish, they don't even have the same types of chromosomes. And they can change and reproduce afterwards. So like. Absolute statements or applying false premises as though it's 100% true is outright wrong. Yes, everyone has heard of those. You've most likely already heard the rebuttals against those too, so I have no idea why they are even being brought up. Mutations exist. Mutations are aberrations along finishing development process. Some people have six toes. Some people have supernumary teeth. But these are not categories. They are mutations. And again, this all goes back to the null hypothesis. If you aren't willing to accept the possibility you could be wrong about gender being a feeling, why should everyone else consider themselves wrong? End stop, there's no set of data (xy and xx is the furthest regression we have right now similar to a quark being the furthest regression of an atom) that will get some people to believe men are women. The idea of 'well I hope you get fired bigot' is digging yourself into a deeper hole, that's not the right answer. When I say the best you can hope for is to agree to disagree with a large portion of society, it means 'I hope you get fired bigot' over time will not only alienate you from the reasonable population, but other transpeople who are trying to fit in and be polite with others who don't agree only to see you poisoning the well for them too. --- The Retro Hippo of the Retro Achievements http://retroachievements.org/User/HippopotamusRex <cite>HippopotamusRex posted [p:886046077] in Are you ac... [t:75740046]...</cite> <quote><cite>gunplagirl posted...</cite> <quote><cite>Soviet_Poland posted...</cite> <quote><cite>HippopotamusRex posted...</cite> <quote>And body is xx or xy so no matter how you feel any representation of those feelings is manifested biologically.</quote> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Klinefelter_syndrome https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turner_syndrome https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/XX_male_syndrome https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/XY_gonadal_dysgenesis Lol....</quote> Plus ones like xo. Or in fish, they don't even have the same types of chromosomes. And they can change and reproduce afterwards. So like. Absolute statements or applying false premises as though it's 100% true is outright wrong.</quote> Yes, everyone has heard of those. You've most likely already heard the rebuttals against those too, so I have no idea why they are even being brought up. Mutations exist. Mutations are aberrations along finishing development process. Some people have six toes. Some people have supernumary teeth. But these are not categories. They are mutations. And again, this all goes back to the null hypothesis. If you aren't willing to accept the possibility you could be wrong about gender being a feeling, why should everyone else consider themselves wrong? End stop, there's no set of data (xy and xx is the furthest regression we have right now similar to a quark being the furthest regression of an atom) that will get some people to believe men are women. The idea of 'well I hope you get fired bigot' is digging yourself into a deeper hole, that's not the right answer. When I say the best you can hope for is to agree to disagree with a large portion of society, it means 'I hope you get fired bigot' over time will not only alienate you from the reasonable population, but other transpeople who are trying to fit in and be polite with others who don't agree only to see you poisoning the well for them too.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Soviet_Poland 09/05/17 2:23:16 AM #212:	Callixtus posted... Those are bad arguments. The thing about principles is that you don't have to go into the nitty gritty details about whether or not it works in practice or not, in order to affirm whether the principle is worth upholding or not. So we don't have to worry about whether doctors in practice will provide amputations, only that it is morally permissible for them to do so and that we as a society should support such practices at least in theory. Otherwise, 80 years ago, when no one would have conducted SRS both because of moral concerns and the technology of the time, we could have established a rule for all time that no one would ever perform a sex reassignment surgery, regardless of changes in circumstances. What's funny is that I looked into the literature for BIID and found this: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3326051/ "Subjects who actually had performed amputation scored significantly lower on the Sheehan Disability Scale compared to those who had not. BIID individuals prefer being in harmony with one's identity, even if it results in physical disability. Surgery appears to result in permanent remission of BIID and in impressive improvement of quality of life, but conflicts with ethical standards of physicians indicating not to amputate healthy limbs" Lmao, the example you used to try and delinate some moral failing in HRT/SRS actually is consistent with the standard of care for treating dysphoria. Indulging in these identities do produce clinical remission in their symptoms. Perhaps we should be opening the discussion whether or not we should be pushing for more elective amputations in BIID. Look, at the end of the day these discussions become risk/benefit stratifications. Someone losing a limb to satisfy a mental obsession if you want to call it will suffer greater morbidity in terms of the loss of functionality of a limb. That's why you get that intuitive hesitation when you try and bring up that example. It's a larger "cost." HRT or SRS produces changes, or renders sexual organs no longer functional, but these ultimately are more value judgements than objective matters of functionality. The transition more or less lets them do anything they were able to do prior, except for sexual reproduction, in which we've already established people make permanent decisions on their reproductive functionality/fate. In fact, your desire to "render a human being less than functional" is a value judgement on your part, which others may or may not agree with. To push that on others is no different than the frustration people against transgenders feel that mere acceptance of their condition is "enforcing their beliefs on them." You're the one trying to force the mental anguish on another just to satisfy your tidy world view. --- "He has two neurons held together by a spirochete." <cite>Soviet_Poland posted [p:886046081] in Are you ac... [t:75740046]...</cite> <quote><cite>Callixtus posted...</cite> <quote>Those are bad arguments. The thing about principles is that you don't have to go into the nitty gritty details about whether or not it works in practice or not, in order to affirm whether the principle is worth upholding or not. So we don't have to worry about whether doctors in practice will provide amputations, only that it is morally permissible for them to do so and that we as a society should support such practices at least in theory. Otherwise, 80 years ago, when no one would have conducted SRS both because of moral concerns and the technology of the time, we could have established a rule for all time that no one would ever perform a sex reassignment surgery, regardless of changes in circumstances.</quote> What's funny is that I looked into the literature for BIID and found this: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3326051/ <quote>"Subjects who actually had performed amputation scored significantly lower on the Sheehan Disability Scale compared to those who had not. BIID individuals prefer being in harmony with one's identity, even if it results in physical disability. Surgery appears to result in permanent remission of BIID and in impressive improvement of quality of life, but conflicts with ethical standards of physicians indicating not to amputate healthy limbs"</quote> Lmao, the example you used to try and delinate some moral failing in HRT/SRS actually is consistent with the standard of care for treating dysphoria. Indulging in these identities do produce clinical remission in their symptoms. Perhaps we should be opening the discussion whether or not we should be pushing for more elective amputations in BIID. Look, at the end of the day these discussions become risk/benefit stratifications. Someone losing a limb to satisfy a mental obsession if you want to call it will suffer greater morbidity in terms of the loss of functionality of a limb. That's why you get that intuitive hesitation when you try and bring up that example. It's a larger "cost." HRT or SRS produces changes, or renders sexual organs no longer functional, but these ultimately are more value judgements than objective matters of functionality. The transition more or less lets them do anything they were able to do prior, except for sexual reproduction, in which we've already established people make permanent decisions on their reproductive functionality/fate. In fact, your desire to "render a human being less than functional" is a value judgement on your part, which others may or may not agree with. To push that on others is no different than the frustration people against transgenders feel that mere acceptance of their condition is "enforcing their beliefs on them." You're the one trying to force the mental anguish on another just to satisfy your tidy world view.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
gunplagirl 09/05/17 2:29:27 AM #213:	HippopotamusRex posted... gunplagirl posted... Soviet_Poland posted... HippopotamusRex posted... And body is xx or xy so no matter how you feel any representation of those feelings is manifested biologically. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Klinefelter_syndrome https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turner_syndrome https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/XX_male_syndrome https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/XY_gonadal_dysgenesis Lol.... Plus ones like xo. Or in fish, they don't even have the same types of chromosomes. And they can change and reproduce afterwards. So like. Absolute statements or applying false premises as though it's 100% true is outright wrong. Yes, everyone has heard of those. You've most likely already heard the rebuttals against those too, so I have no idea why they are even being brought up. Mutations exist. Mutations are aberrations along finishing development process. Some people have six toes. Some people have supernumary teeth. But these are not categories. They are mutations. And again, this all goes back to the null hypothesis. If you aren't willing to accept the possibility you could be wrong about gender being a feeling, why should everyone else consider themselves wrong? End stop, there's no set of data (xy and xx is the furthest regression we have right now similar to a quark being the furthest regression of an atom) that will get some people to believe men are women. The idea of 'well I hope you get fired bigot' is digging yourself into a deeper hole, that's not the right answer. When I say the best you can hope for is to agree to disagree with a large portion of society, it means 'I hope you get fired bigot' over time will not only alienate you from the reasonable population, but other transpeople who are trying to fit in and be polite with others who don't agree only to see you poisoning the well for them too. Except trans people can tell you it isn't a feeling. If people ignore trans people when discussing the validity, they're being wrong. You can't say chromosomes are an absolute then ignore all exceptions. And you say that we alienate ourselves. When really, we're being pushed out of society by bigots like you who refuse to change, and who continue to make our lives hell until we die. Your feelings don't have priority over trans lives. So yes, I want you fired and removed from society until such a time as you can learn to not be a bigot --- Pokemon Moon FC: 1994-2190-5020 IGN: Vanessa <cite>gunplagirl posted [p:886046247] in Are you ac... [t:75740046]...</cite> <quote><cite>HippopotamusRex posted...</cite> <quote><cite>gunplagirl posted...</cite> <quote><cite>Soviet_Poland posted...</cite> <quote><cite>HippopotamusRex posted...</cite> <quote>And body is xx or xy so no matter how you feel any representation of those feelings is manifested biologically.</quote> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Klinefelter_syndrome https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turner_syndrome https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/XX_male_syndrome https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/XY_gonadal_dysgenesis Lol....</quote> Plus ones like xo. Or in fish, they don't even have the same types of chromosomes. And they can change and reproduce afterwards. So like. Absolute statements or applying false premises as though it's 100% true is outright wrong.</quote> Yes, everyone has heard of those. You've most likely already heard the rebuttals against those too, so I have no idea why they are even being brought up. Mutations exist. Mutations are aberrations along finishing development process. Some people have six toes. Some people have supernumary teeth. But these are not categories. They are mutations. And again, this all goes back to the null hypothesis. If you aren't willing to accept the possibility you could be wrong about gender being a feeling, why should everyone else consider themselves wrong? End stop, there's no set of data (xy and xx is the furthest regression we have right now similar to a quark being the furthest regression of an atom) that will get some people to believe men are women. The idea of 'well I hope you get fired bigot' is digging yourself into a deeper hole, that's not the right answer. When I say the best you can hope for is to agree to disagree with a large portion of society, it means 'I hope you get fired bigot' over time will not only alienate you from the reasonable population, but other transpeople who are trying to fit in and be polite with others who don't agree only to see you poisoning the well for them too.</quote> Except trans people can tell you it isn't a feeling. If people ignore trans people when discussing the validity, they're being wrong. You can't say chromosomes are an absolute then ignore all exceptions. And you say that we alienate ourselves. When really, we're being pushed out of society by bigots like you who refuse to change, and who continue to make our lives hell until we die. Your feelings don't have priority over trans lives. So yes, I want you fired and removed from society until such a time as you can learn to not be a bigot</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
HippopotamusRex 09/05/17 2:33:24 AM #214:	gunplagirl posted... HippopotamusRex posted... gunplagirl posted... Soviet_Poland posted... HippopotamusRex posted... And body is xx or xy so no matter how you feel any representation of those feelings is manifested biologically. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Klinefelter_syndrome https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turner_syndrome https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/XX_male_syndrome https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/XY_gonadal_dysgenesis Lol.... Plus ones like xo. Or in fish, they don't even have the same types of chromosomes. And they can change and reproduce afterwards. So like. Absolute statements or applying false premises as though it's 100% true is outright wrong. Yes, everyone has heard of those. You've most likely already heard the rebuttals against those too, so I have no idea why they are even being brought up. Mutations exist. Mutations are aberrations along finishing development process. Some people have six toes. Some people have supernumary teeth. But these are not categories. They are mutations. And again, this all goes back to the null hypothesis. If you aren't willing to accept the possibility you could be wrong about gender being a feeling, why should everyone else consider themselves wrong? End stop, there's no set of data (xy and xx is the furthest regression we have right now similar to a quark being the furthest regression of an atom) that will get some people to believe men are women. The idea of 'well I hope you get fired bigot' is digging yourself into a deeper hole, that's not the right answer. When I say the best you can hope for is to agree to disagree with a large portion of society, it means 'I hope you get fired bigot' over time will not only alienate you from the reasonable population, but other transpeople who are trying to fit in and be polite with others who don't agree only to see you poisoning the well for them too. Except trans people can tell you it isn't a feeling. If people ignore trans people when discussing the validity, they're being wrong. You can't say chromosomes are an absolute then ignore all exceptions. And you say that we alienate ourselves. When really, we're being pushed out of society by bigots like you who refuse to change, and who continue to make our lives hell until we die. Your feelings don't have priority over trans lives. So yes, I want you fired and removed from society until such a time as you can learn to not be a bigot I'll supply you with one more burnt bridge on your long list. I'm probably the most reasonable person you'll meet acting this way, so with my plank removed you can go ahead and continue on your merry way to complete isolation compounded in these unreasonable interactions with others. Consider yourself not even a blip on my radar anymore, ignored and moving on with my life. I mean screw it I tried. I have no idea how many planks you have left, but oh well, here's one less. --- The Retro Hippo of the Retro Achievements http://retroachievements.org/User/HippopotamusRex <cite>HippopotamusRex posted [p:886046360] in Are you ac... [t:75740046]...</cite> <quote><cite>gunplagirl posted...</cite> <quote><cite>HippopotamusRex posted...</cite> <quote><cite>gunplagirl posted...</cite> <quote><cite>Soviet_Poland posted...</cite> <quote><cite>HippopotamusRex posted...</cite> <quote>And body is xx or xy so no matter how you feel any representation of those feelings is manifested biologically.</quote> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Klinefelter_syndrome https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turner_syndrome https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/XX_male_syndrome https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/XY_gonadal_dysgenesis Lol....</quote> Plus ones like xo. Or in fish, they don't even have the same types of chromosomes. And they can change and reproduce afterwards. So like. Absolute statements or applying false premises as though it's 100% true is outright wrong.</quote> Yes, everyone has heard of those. You've most likely already heard the rebuttals against those too, so I have no idea why they are even being brought up. Mutations exist. Mutations are aberrations along finishing development process. Some people have six toes. Some people have supernumary teeth. But these are not categories. They are mutations. And again, this all goes back to the null hypothesis. If you aren't willing to accept the possibility you could be wrong about gender being a feeling, why should everyone else consider themselves wrong? End stop, there's no set of data (xy and xx is the furthest regression we have right now similar to a quark being the furthest regression of an atom) that will get some people to believe men are women. The idea of 'well I hope you get fired bigot' is digging yourself into a deeper hole, that's not the right answer. When I say the best you can hope for is to agree to disagree with a large portion of society, it means 'I hope you get fired bigot' over time will not only alienate you from the reasonable population, but other transpeople who are trying to fit in and be polite with others who don't agree only to see you poisoning the well for them too.</quote> Except trans people can tell you it isn't a feeling. If people ignore trans people when discussing the validity, they're being wrong. You can't say chromosomes are an absolute then ignore all exceptions. And you say that we alienate ourselves. When really, we're being pushed out of society by bigots like you who refuse to change, and who continue to make our lives hell until we die. Your feelings don't have priority over trans lives. So yes, I want you fired and removed from society until such a time as you can learn to not be a bigot</quote> I'll supply you with one more burnt bridge on your long list. I'm probably the most reasonable person you'll meet acting this way, so with my plank removed you can go ahead and continue on your merry way to complete isolation compounded in these unreasonable interactions with others. Consider yourself not even a blip on my radar anymore, ignored and moving on with my life. I mean screw it I tried. I have no idea how many planks you have left, but oh well, here's one less.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
gunplagirl 09/05/17 2:39:30 AM #215:	That's always a fun thing to hear. You clearly weren't an ally, and if you were then the fact it's based entirely upon those of us in this position treating you nicely means you're still a crappy one. If you have any limitations on how much you'll support like that, or not doing a pronouns, then your allyship is worthless and gets in the way. "I know trans people are abused by the majority of the population but since one was mean to me, I'm going to abuse them as well." --- Pokemon Moon FC: 1994-2190-5020 IGN: Vanessa <cite>gunplagirl posted [p:886046512] in Are you ac... [t:75740046]...</cite> <quote>That's always a fun thing to hear. You clearly weren't an ally, and if you were then the fact it's based entirely upon those of us in this position treating you nicely means you're still a crappy one. If you have any limitations on how much you'll support like that, or not doing a pronouns, then your allyship is worthless and gets in the way. "I know trans people are abused by the majority of the population but since one was mean to me, I'm going to abuse them as well."</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
EternalDivide 09/05/17 2:42:02 AM #216:	No I am not. And I don't support the idea of encouraging and aggrandizing a mental health issue. And pumping someone full of lies and hormones and cutting off genitalia to be replaced with plastic parts of others is not a treatment or therapy. It's no more a treatment than lobotomies were for bi polar disorder in the 40s. --- FFVII Remake: A disaster in the making. I'll laugh at whatever I find funny whether you like it or not. <cite>EternalDivide posted [p:886046584] in Are you ac... [t:75740046]...</cite> <quote>No I am not. And I don't support the idea of encouraging and aggrandizing a mental health issue. And pumping someone full of lies and hormones and cutting off genitalia to be replaced with plastic parts of others is not a treatment or therapy. It's no more a treatment than lobotomies were for bi polar disorder in the 40s.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Sayoria 09/05/17 2:46:23 AM #217:	gun, you need to really approach people better. Hostility creates enemies. Reasonable compromise makes friendly debate. You are more likely to win someone over with the latter rather than the former. I don't get why you can't simply do that. It's reactions like that that create this "You are either left or right" mentality in this nation right now. I stand here in the center trying o fix the bridge as it is being burned on both sides. There are a lot of people who are against us that simply do not understand what it is like to be transgender. Yes, many assume it is just perversion or that it is a phase or something else, but the logical ones who believe this will sit down, will listen, and will present their questions to you. If you can answer them, you'll enlighten them and create an ally opposed to screaming at them and making them think we are all a bunch of dodo heads. How many people have you made into allies or made into friends on here through your methods? I've made many. I'm cool with (or was when they were here) Proud, Linctagon, FMLG... while he is still against it, Terra Enforcer, but I feel he's eased up with me some. I mean.... cmon. Why do you have to be that way? This is why I make an AMA once in a while dedicated strictly to transgender issues. Because I have to do damage control because so many of you on here just go rabid on these people. --- i.imgur.com/OBxVnqJ.png ~ www.azaleasdolls.com/dressupgames/heroine-creator.php i.imgur.com/Pj3WBiE.jpg ~ www.dolldivine.com/sailor-moon-senshi-maker.php <cite>Sayoria posted [p:886046691] in Are you ac... [t:75740046]...</cite> <quote>gun, you need to really approach people better. Hostility creates enemies. Reasonable compromise makes friendly debate. You are more likely to win someone over with the latter rather than the former. I don't get why you can't simply do that. It's reactions like that that create this "You are either left or right" mentality in this nation right now. I stand here in the center trying o fix the bridge as it is being burned on both sides. There are a lot of people who are against us that simply do not understand what it is like to be transgender. Yes, many assume it is just perversion or that it is a phase or something else, but the logical ones who believe this will sit down, will listen, and will present their questions to you. If you can answer them, you'll enlighten them and create an ally opposed to screaming at them and making them think we are all a bunch of dodo heads. How many people have you made into allies or made into friends on here through your methods? I've made many. I'm cool with (or was when they were here) Proud, Linctagon, FMLG... while he is still against it, Terra Enforcer, but I feel he's eased up with me some. I mean.... cmon. Why do you have to be that way? This is why I make an AMA once in a while dedicated strictly to transgender issues. Because I have to do damage control because so many of you on here just go rabid on these people.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
gunplagirl 09/05/17 2:48:16 AM #218:	Sayoria posted... gun, you need to really approach people better. Hostility creates enemies. Reasonable compromise makes friendly debate. You are more likely to win someone over with the latter rather than the former. I don't get why you can't simply do that. It's reactions like that that create this "You are either left or right" mentality in this nation right now. I stand here in the center trying o fix the bridge as it is being burned on both sides. There are a lot of people who are against us that simply do not understand what it is like to be transgender. Yes, many assume it is just perversion or that it is a phase or something else, but the logical ones who believe this will sit down, will listen, and will present their questions to you. If you can answer them, you'll enlighten them and create an ally opposed to screaming at them and making them think we are all a bunch of dodo heads. How many people have you made into allies or made into friends on here through your methods? I've made many. I'm cool with (or was when they were here) Proud, Linctagon, FMLG... while he is still against it, Terra Enforcer, but I feel he's eased up with me some. I mean.... cmon. Why do you have to be that way? This is why I make an AMA once in a while dedicated strictly to transgender issues. Because I have to do damage control because so many of you on here just go rabid on these people. Dear gunplagirl, I wrote you but you still ain't calling --- Pokemon Moon FC: 1994-2190-5020 IGN: Vanessa <cite>gunplagirl posted [p:886046736] in Are you ac... [t:75740046]...</cite> <quote><cite>Sayoria posted...</cite> <quote>gun, you need to really approach people better. Hostility creates enemies. Reasonable compromise makes friendly debate. You are more likely to win someone over with the latter rather than the former. I don't get why you can't simply do that. It's reactions like that that create this "You are either left or right" mentality in this nation right now. I stand here in the center trying o fix the bridge as it is being burned on both sides. There are a lot of people who are against us that simply do not understand what it is like to be transgender. Yes, many assume it is just perversion or that it is a phase or something else, but the logical ones who believe this will sit down, will listen, and will present their questions to you. If you can answer them, you'll enlighten them and create an ally opposed to screaming at them and making them think we are all a bunch of dodo heads. How many people have you made into allies or made into friends on here through your methods? I've made many. I'm cool with (or was when they were here) Proud, Linctagon, FMLG... while he is still against it, Terra Enforcer, but I feel he's eased up with me some. I mean.... cmon. Why do you have to be that way? This is why I make an AMA once in a while dedicated strictly to transgender issues. Because I have to do damage control because so many of you on here just go rabid on these people.</quote> Dear gunplagirl, I wrote you but you still ain't calling</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Sayoria 09/05/17 2:48:22 AM #219:	EternalDivide posted... No I am not. And I don't support the idea of encouraging and aggrandizing a mental health issue. And pumping someone full of lies and hormones and cutting off genitalia to be replaced with plastic parts of others is not a treatment or therapy. It's no more a treatment than lobotomies were for bi polar disorder in the 40s. And that's your opinion. I'm still getting my surgery in May. If you want to try and stop me, by all means, go for it. It isn't about being genuine. It's about being comfortable and happy. Would doing this make me comfortable and happy? You bet your balls it will. If not, we can bet mine. --- i.imgur.com/OBxVnqJ.png ~ www.azaleasdolls.com/dressupgames/heroine-creator.php i.imgur.com/Pj3WBiE.jpg ~ www.dolldivine.com/sailor-moon-senshi-maker.php <cite>Sayoria posted [p:886046739] in Are you ac... [t:75740046]...</cite> <quote><cite>EternalDivide posted...</cite> <quote>No I am not. And I don't support the idea of encouraging and aggrandizing a mental health issue. And pumping someone full of lies and hormones and cutting off genitalia to be replaced with plastic parts of others is not a treatment or therapy. It's no more a treatment than lobotomies were for bi polar disorder in the 40s.</quote> And that's your opinion. I'm still getting my surgery in May. If you want to try and stop me, by all means, go for it. It isn't about being genuine. It's about being comfortable and happy. Would doing this make me comfortable and happy? You bet your balls it will. If not, we can bet mine.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Sayoria 09/05/17 2:48:48 AM #220:	gunplagirl posted... Sayoria posted... gun, you need to really approach people better. Hostility creates enemies. Reasonable compromise makes friendly debate. You are more likely to win someone over with the latter rather than the former. I don't get why you can't simply do that. It's reactions like that that create this "You are either left or right" mentality in this nation right now. I stand here in the center trying o fix the bridge as it is being burned on both sides. There are a lot of people who are against us that simply do not understand what it is like to be transgender. Yes, many assume it is just perversion or that it is a phase or something else, but the logical ones who believe this will sit down, will listen, and will present their questions to you. If you can answer them, you'll enlighten them and create an ally opposed to screaming at them and making them think we are all a bunch of dodo heads. How many people have you made into allies or made into friends on here through your methods? I've made many. I'm cool with (or was when they were here) Proud, Linctagon, FMLG... while he is still against it, Terra Enforcer, but I feel he's eased up with me some. I mean.... cmon. Why do you have to be that way? This is why I make an AMA once in a while dedicated strictly to transgender issues. Because I have to do damage control because so many of you on here just go rabid on these people. Dear gunplagirl, I wrote you but you still ain't calling What are you even talking about? --- i.imgur.com/OBxVnqJ.png ~ www.azaleasdolls.com/dressupgames/heroine-creator.php i.imgur.com/Pj3WBiE.jpg ~ www.dolldivine.com/sailor-moon-senshi-maker.php <cite>Sayoria posted [p:886046753] in Are you ac... [t:75740046]...</cite> <quote><cite>gunplagirl posted...</cite> <quote><cite>Sayoria posted...</cite> <quote>gun, you need to really approach people better. Hostility creates enemies. Reasonable compromise makes friendly debate. You are more likely to win someone over with the latter rather than the former. I don't get why you can't simply do that. It's reactions like that that create this "You are either left or right" mentality in this nation right now. I stand here in the center trying o fix the bridge as it is being burned on both sides. There are a lot of people who are against us that simply do not understand what it is like to be transgender. Yes, many assume it is just perversion or that it is a phase or something else, but the logical ones who believe this will sit down, will listen, and will present their questions to you. If you can answer them, you'll enlighten them and create an ally opposed to screaming at them and making them think we are all a bunch of dodo heads. How many people have you made into allies or made into friends on here through your methods? I've made many. I'm cool with (or was when they were here) Proud, Linctagon, FMLG... while he is still against it, Terra Enforcer, but I feel he's eased up with me some. I mean.... cmon. Why do you have to be that way? This is why I make an AMA once in a while dedicated strictly to transgender issues. Because I have to do damage control because so many of you on here just go rabid on these people.</quote> Dear gunplagirl, I wrote you but you still ain't calling</quote> What are you even talking about?</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
gunplagirl 09/05/17 2:49:21 AM #221:	Sayoria posted... gunplagirl posted... Sayoria posted... gun, you need to really approach people better. Hostility creates enemies. Reasonable compromise makes friendly debate. You are more likely to win someone over with the latter rather than the former. I don't get why you can't simply do that. It's reactions like that that create this "You are either left or right" mentality in this nation right now. I stand here in the center trying o fix the bridge as it is being burned on both sides. There are a lot of people who are against us that simply do not understand what it is like to be transgender. Yes, many assume it is just perversion or that it is a phase or something else, but the logical ones who believe this will sit down, will listen, and will present their questions to you. If you can answer them, you'll enlighten them and create an ally opposed to screaming at them and making them think we are all a bunch of dodo heads. How many people have you made into allies or made into friends on here through your methods? I've made many. I'm cool with (or was when they were here) Proud, Linctagon, FMLG... while he is still against it, Terra Enforcer, but I feel he's eased up with me some. I mean.... cmon. Why do you have to be that way? This is why I make an AMA once in a while dedicated strictly to transgender issues. Because I have to do damage control because so many of you on here just go rabid on these people. Dear gunplagirl, I wrote you but you still ain't calling What are you even talking about? Stan by Eminem --- Pokemon Moon FC: 1994-2190-5020 IGN: Vanessa <cite>gunplagirl posted [p:886046771] in Are you ac... [t:75740046]...</cite> <quote><cite>Sayoria posted...</cite> <quote><cite>gunplagirl posted...</cite> <quote><cite>Sayoria posted...</cite> <quote>gun, you need to really approach people better. Hostility creates enemies. Reasonable compromise makes friendly debate. You are more likely to win someone over with the latter rather than the former. I don't get why you can't simply do that. It's reactions like that that create this "You are either left or right" mentality in this nation right now. I stand here in the center trying o fix the bridge as it is being burned on both sides. There are a lot of people who are against us that simply do not understand what it is like to be transgender. Yes, many assume it is just perversion or that it is a phase or something else, but the logical ones who believe this will sit down, will listen, and will present their questions to you. If you can answer them, you'll enlighten them and create an ally opposed to screaming at them and making them think we are all a bunch of dodo heads. How many people have you made into allies or made into friends on here through your methods? I've made many. I'm cool with (or was when they were here) Proud, Linctagon, FMLG... while he is still against it, Terra Enforcer, but I feel he's eased up with me some. I mean.... cmon. Why do you have to be that way? This is why I make an AMA once in a while dedicated strictly to transgender issues. Because I have to do damage control because so many of you on here just go rabid on these people.</quote> Dear gunplagirl, I wrote you but you still ain't calling</quote> What are you even talking about?</quote> Stan by Eminem</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Callixtus 09/05/17 2:49:24 AM #222:	Soviet_Poland posted... ... I don't know why you're LMAOing as if I made the claim that amputation would not have a "positive" mental effect for such people. I never made said such a thing. I am merely curious why supporters of SRS are so reluctant to give the same support to these amputations, despite them being substantially similar. Also you have me all wrong. I support SRS surgery, as the best choice we have out of the bad ones available. So you seem to have failed again there. However, amputating limbs or reassigning a person's sex because those are the best options we know of now, in no way means they are good options nor that the people receiving these procedures, even if do feel better, are not disordered in the first place. What the case of the amputations should reveal is that some people are so far gone, that there is no hope for them except to eviscerate their bodies to satisfy their restless minds. And yet again, you are incorrect when you assert that I am trying to push mental anguish on anyone. But am I making value judgments? Of course I am. But don't pretend that the transgender movement isn't rife with values to which the rest of the country, if not the world must pay homage lest we be written off as baffoons and bigots. The chief value of course being that transgender people are actually the sex they transition into. This of course is a massive conceit, and one with huge ramifications for the rest of the country. --- KhanofKhans, KhanJohnson, Saloonist, Basileos <cite>Callixtus posted [p:886046773] in Are you ac... [t:75740046]...</cite> <quote><cite>Soviet_Poland posted...</cite> <quote>...</quote> I don't know why you're LMAOing as if I made the claim that amputation would not have a "positive" mental effect for such people. I never made said such a thing. I am merely curious why supporters of SRS are so reluctant to give the same support to these amputations, despite them being substantially similar. Also you have me all wrong. I support SRS surgery, as the best choice we have out of the bad ones available. So you seem to have failed again there. However, amputating limbs or reassigning a person's sex because those are the best options we know of now, in no way means they are good options nor that the people receiving these procedures, even if do feel better, are not disordered in the first place. What the case of the amputations should reveal is that some people are so far gone, that there is no hope for them except to eviscerate their bodies to satisfy their restless minds. And yet again, you are incorrect when you assert that I am trying to push mental anguish on anyone. But am I making value judgments? Of course I am. But don't pretend that the transgender movement isn't rife with values to which the rest of the country, if not the world must pay homage lest we be written off as baffoons and bigots. The chief value of course being that transgender people are actually the sex they transition into. This of course is a massive conceit, and one with huge ramifications for the rest of the country.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Soviet_Poland 09/05/17 2:49:51 AM #223:	HippopotamusRex posted... Yes, everyone has heard of those. Ehhh, I doubt that. And when someone makes a statement like you did, it's fair to assume I thought you didn't know. You're trying to rely on a simplistic analogy about the smallest unit of particles and try to extrapolate that as greater truths about gender identity as it relates to chromosomes? Sure, Klinefelter and Turner syndrome have nothing to do with gender identity, but it does throw a wrench in the people that rely on presumptions of binary physical genders at birth when the water is a bit murkier with respect to what can go wrong embryologically. The point here is that it's not a massive intellectual leap to assume there is probably some pathway relating to gender identity in the brain. Maybe at some point in the future they are able to identify a lesion precisely. Maybe a therapy comes out that can alleviate it and it becomes an option for some. Until then, presupposing that other options exist and using that as a basis to stop basic human empathy is a little....fucked up. Them asking to merely acknowledge their experience as a possibility is not them forcing or imposing their beliefs on you. It's literally nothing more than a call for empathy. And given the history of homosexuality with respect to sexual orientation, or deaf communities choosing to forgo new treatment modalities like cochlear implants because they identify culturally around their "defect", the human experience has wiggle room for not necessarily classifying it as something that must be stomped out. If getting flustered that being asked to refer to them as a pronoun you wouldn't expect is too much, you might want to reconsider how reasonable you think you are. And I wouldn't predicate a few bad eggs who might come off as a bit more militant with their expectations as the norm. Because I'm willing to wager the way others treat them on average is far worse. --- "He has two neurons held together by a spirochete." <cite>Soviet_Poland posted [p:886046779] in Are you ac... [t:75740046]...</cite> <quote><cite>HippopotamusRex posted...</cite> <quote>Yes, everyone has heard of those.</quote> Ehhh, I doubt that. And when someone makes a statement like you did, it's fair to assume I thought you didn't know. You're trying to rely on a simplistic analogy about the smallest unit of particles and try to extrapolate that as greater truths about gender identity as it relates to chromosomes? Sure, Klinefelter and Turner syndrome have nothing to do with gender identity, but it does throw a wrench in the people that rely on presumptions of binary physical genders at birth when the water is a bit murkier with respect to what can go wrong embryologically. The point here is that it's not a massive intellectual leap to assume there is probably some pathway relating to gender identity in the brain. Maybe at some point in the future they are able to identify a lesion precisely. Maybe a therapy comes out that can alleviate it and it becomes an option for some. Until then, presupposing that other options exist and using that as a basis to stop basic human empathy is a little....fucked up. Them asking to merely acknowledge their experience as a possibility is not them forcing or imposing their beliefs on you. It's literally nothing more than a call for empathy. And given the history of homosexuality with respect to sexual orientation, or deaf communities choosing to forgo new treatment modalities like cochlear implants because they identify culturally around their "defect", the human experience has wiggle room for not necessarily classifying it as something that must be stomped out. If getting flustered that being asked to refer to them as a pronoun you wouldn't expect is too much, you might want to reconsider how reasonable you think you are. And I wouldn't predicate a few bad eggs who might come off as a bit more militant with their expectations as the norm. Because I'm willing to wager the way others treat them on average is far worse.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Sayoria 09/05/17 2:49:56 AM #224:	gunplagirl posted... Sayoria posted... gunplagirl posted... Sayoria posted... gun, you need to really approach people better. Hostility creates enemies. Reasonable compromise makes friendly debate. You are more likely to win someone over with the latter rather than the former. I don't get why you can't simply do that. It's reactions like that that create this "You are either left or right" mentality in this nation right now. I stand here in the center trying o fix the bridge as it is being burned on both sides. There are a lot of people who are against us that simply do not understand what it is like to be transgender. Yes, many assume it is just perversion or that it is a phase or something else, but the logical ones who believe this will sit down, will listen, and will present their questions to you. If you can answer them, you'll enlighten them and create an ally opposed to screaming at them and making them think we are all a bunch of dodo heads. How many people have you made into allies or made into friends on here through your methods? I've made many. I'm cool with (or was when they were here) Proud, Linctagon, FMLG... while he is still against it, Terra Enforcer, but I feel he's eased up with me some. I mean.... cmon. Why do you have to be that way? This is why I make an AMA once in a while dedicated strictly to transgender issues. Because I have to do damage control because so many of you on here just go rabid on these people. Dear gunplagirl, I wrote you but you still ain't calling What are you even talking about? Stan by Eminem I hate Eminem, but good song, that one is. I love Dido. --- i.imgur.com/OBxVnqJ.png ~ www.azaleasdolls.com/dressupgames/heroine-creator.php i.imgur.com/Pj3WBiE.jpg ~ www.dolldivine.com/sailor-moon-senshi-maker.php <cite>Sayoria posted [p:886046783] in Are you ac... [t:75740046]...</cite> <quote><cite>gunplagirl posted...</cite> <quote><cite>Sayoria posted...</cite> <quote><cite>gunplagirl posted...</cite> <quote><cite>Sayoria posted...</cite> <quote>gun, you need to really approach people better. Hostility creates enemies. Reasonable compromise makes friendly debate. You are more likely to win someone over with the latter rather than the former. I don't get why you can't simply do that. It's reactions like that that create this "You are either left or right" mentality in this nation right now. I stand here in the center trying o fix the bridge as it is being burned on both sides. There are a lot of people who are against us that simply do not understand what it is like to be transgender. Yes, many assume it is just perversion or that it is a phase or something else, but the logical ones who believe this will sit down, will listen, and will present their questions to you. If you can answer them, you'll enlighten them and create an ally opposed to screaming at them and making them think we are all a bunch of dodo heads. How many people have you made into allies or made into friends on here through your methods? I've made many. I'm cool with (or was when they were here) Proud, Linctagon, FMLG... while he is still against it, Terra Enforcer, but I feel he's eased up with me some. I mean.... cmon. Why do you have to be that way? This is why I make an AMA once in a while dedicated strictly to transgender issues. Because I have to do damage control because so many of you on here just go rabid on these people.</quote> Dear gunplagirl, I wrote you but you still ain't calling</quote> What are you even talking about?</quote> Stan by Eminem</quote> I hate Eminem, but good song, that one is. I love Dido.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Soviet_Poland 09/05/17 3:06:54 AM #225:	Callixtus posted... I am merely curious why supporters of SRS are so reluctant to give the same support to these amputations, despite them being substantially similar. Well then they aren't up to date on the literature. Don't base the criticism off their misinformation. Callixtus posted... Also you have me all wrong. I support SRS surgery, as the best choice we have out of the bad ones available. Fair enough. Callixtus posted... amputating limbs or reassigning a person's sex because those are the best options we know of now, in no way means they are good options nor that the people receiving these procedures, even if do feel better, are not disordered in the first place. What the case of the amputations should reveal is that some people are so far gone, that there is no hope for them except to eviscerate their bodies to satisfy their restless minds. I mean, you are trivializing mental distress here. Or at least downplaying the benefit relieving this mental anguish might accomplish. The reality is we don't know what causes gender identity, what biological factors play a role, or whether it's primarily a psychosocial issue. We have a few treatment modalities that address real people with real stress, and some people who aren't experiencing this seemingly think their opinions on the "rightness" or "wrongness" of the phenomenon, of which are purely philosophical in nature and not really that rooted in evidence, are enough to deny some people empathy. What fails to come across in these discussions often is that while I personally think when a transgendered person is offended they weren't recognized by the correct pronoun off the bat that they aren't doing themselves any favors. But at the same time, I recognize they probably get treated pretty terribly on a regular basis, and that I can probably cut them some slack if they ask for just a little sympathy, or a little awareness on my part. And a simple "sorry" followed by addressing them in a preferred manner is a very easy and simple task on my end, and I consider it basic human decency, and I can check my ego because I don't know if I'm right or wrong on this issue until more evidence comes to light. So while I don't have any skin in the game relating to this issue, when someone is claiming they are "forcing their beliefs on them" I just roll my eyes. More often then not, no one is really advocating for them, and they aren't trying to get people to admit a full on "this is what is going on, period, the end" it's more of a "hey guys, let's chill and not treat each other like shit until we figure this out, k?" --- "He has two neurons held together by a spirochete." <cite>Soviet_Poland posted [p:886047211] in Are you ac... [t:75740046]...</cite> <quote><cite>Callixtus posted...</cite> <quote> I am merely curious why supporters of SRS are so reluctant to give the same support to these amputations, despite them being substantially similar.</quote> Well then they aren't up to date on the literature. Don't base the criticism off their misinformation. <cite>Callixtus posted...</cite> <quote>Also you have me all wrong. I support SRS surgery, as the best choice we have out of the bad ones available.</quote> Fair enough. <cite>Callixtus posted...</cite> <quote>amputating limbs or reassigning a person's sex because those are the best options we know of now, in no way means they are good options nor that the people receiving these procedures, even if do feel better, are not disordered in the first place. What the case of the amputations should reveal is that some people are so far gone, that there is no hope for them except to eviscerate their bodies to satisfy their restless minds. </quote> I mean, you are trivializing mental distress here. Or at least downplaying the benefit relieving this mental anguish might accomplish. The reality is we don't know what causes gender identity, what biological factors play a role, or whether it's primarily a psychosocial issue. We have a few treatment modalities that address real people with real stress, and some people who aren't experiencing this seemingly think their opinions on the "rightness" or "wrongness" of the phenomenon, of which are purely philosophical in nature and not really that rooted in evidence, are enough to deny some people empathy. What fails to come across in these discussions often is that while I personally think when a transgendered person is offended they weren't recognized by the correct pronoun off the bat that they aren't doing themselves any favors. But at the same time, I recognize they probably get treated pretty terribly on a regular basis, and that I can probably cut them some slack if they ask for just a little sympathy, or a little awareness on my part. And a simple "sorry" followed by addressing them in a preferred manner is a very easy and simple task on my end, and I consider it basic human decency, and I can check my ego because I don't know if I'm right or wrong on this issue until more evidence comes to light. So while I don't have any skin in the game relating to this issue, when someone is claiming they are "forcing their beliefs on them" I just roll my eyes. More often then not, no one is really advocating for them, and they aren't trying to get people to admit a full on "this is what is going on, period, the end" it's more of a "hey guys, let's chill and not treat each other like shit until we figure this out, k?"</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Kineth 09/05/17 4:53:32 AM #226:	gunplagirl posted... Sayoria posted... gun, you need to really approach people better. Hostility creates enemies. Reasonable compromise makes friendly debate. You are more likely to win someone over with the latter rather than the former. I don't get why you can't simply do that. It's reactions like that that create this "You are either left or right" mentality in this nation right now. I stand here in the center trying o fix the bridge as it is being burned on both sides. There are a lot of people who are against us that simply do not understand what it is like to be transgender. Yes, many assume it is just perversion or that it is a phase or something else, but the logical ones who believe this will sit down, will listen, and will present their questions to you. If you can answer them, you'll enlighten them and create an ally opposed to screaming at them and making them think we are all a bunch of dodo heads. How many people have you made into allies or made into friends on here through your methods? I've made many. I'm cool with (or was when they were here) Proud, Linctagon, FMLG... while he is still against it, Terra Enforcer, but I feel he's eased up with me some. I mean.... cmon. Why do you have to be that way? This is why I make an AMA once in a while dedicated strictly to transgender issues. Because I have to do damage control because so many of you on here just go rabid on these people. Dear gunplagirl, I wrote you but you still ain't calling --- If you're not looking for any honest discussion, agreement, meeting halfway or middle ground, don't bother arguing with me. Selfish narcissists need not apply. <cite>Kineth posted [p:886049492] in Are you ac... [t:75740046]...</cite> <quote><cite>gunplagirl posted...</cite> <quote><cite>Sayoria posted...</cite> <quote>gun, you need to really approach people better. Hostility creates enemies. Reasonable compromise makes friendly debate. You are more likely to win someone over with the latter rather than the former. I don't get why you can't simply do that. It's reactions like that that create this "You are either left or right" mentality in this nation right now. I stand here in the center trying o fix the bridge as it is being burned on both sides. There are a lot of people who are against us that simply do not understand what it is like to be transgender. Yes, many assume it is just perversion or that it is a phase or something else, but the logical ones who believe this will sit down, will listen, and will present their questions to you. If you can answer them, you'll enlighten them and create an ally opposed to screaming at them and making them think we are all a bunch of dodo heads. How many people have you made into allies or made into friends on here through your methods? I've made many. I'm cool with (or was when they were here) Proud, Linctagon, FMLG... while he is still against it, Terra Enforcer, but I feel he's eased up with me some. I mean.... cmon. Why do you have to be that way? This is why I make an AMA once in a while dedicated strictly to transgender issues. Because I have to do damage control because so many of you on here just go rabid on these people.</quote> Dear gunplagirl, I wrote you but you still ain't calling</quote> </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Dash_Harber 09/06/17 4:14:00 AM #227:	Five pages later ... do people still need help understanding why 'being against transgendered people' is equal parts immoral and ineffective. <cite>Dash_Harber posted [p:886112114] in Are you ac... [t:75740046]...</cite> <quote>Five pages later ... do people still need help understanding why 'being against transgendered people' is equal parts immoral and ineffective.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
snakes_righteye 09/06/17 4:18:00 AM #228:	Just another human that I don't really care about. Not any different from any of you. Not any different from any other human on the planet. I really don't think I could care less about any of them, they, we, us, or you. --- Sticking feathers up your butt does not make you a chicken! <cite>snakes_righteye posted [p:886112186] in Are you ac... [t:75740046]...</cite> <quote>Just another human that I don't really care about. Not any different from any of you. Not any different from any other human on the planet. I really don't think I could care less about any of them, they, we, us, or you.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
faizan_faizan 09/06/17 6:59:19 AM #229:	snakes_righteye posted... Just another human that I don't really care about. Not any different from any of you. Not any different from any other human on the planet. I really don't think I could care less about any of them, they, we, us, or you. I don't think 'humans' care about you, either. --- Allergic to bull****. <cite>faizan_faizan posted [p:886115143] in Are you ac... [t:75740046]...</cite> <quote><cite>snakes_righteye posted...</cite> <quote>Just another human that I don't really care about. Not any different from any of you. Not any different from any other human on the planet. I really don't think I could care less about any of them, they, we, us, or you.</quote> I don't think 'humans' care about you, either.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Topic List	Page List: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5

Current Events > Are you accepting and supportive of transgender people? (+) Yeah! (+)

Current Events > Are you accepting and supportive of transgender people?