Poll of the Day > Trana folk (and those above them in the progressive hierarchy) need to chill out

(+) Yeah! (+)

I understand wanting the same rights as everyone else. I totally agree with it even! I dont care about where you poo or if you inject testosterone into your tit or if you want to lop off the ol' knob. That is freedom.

But we need to take a basic look at group and societal psychology here. Y'all were very looked down upon 10-15 years ago. Since then, you were accepted but looked at as weird and abnormal. But lets recognize that mass social change and acceptance, especially in societies with 300+ Million or even the Western World with 2.5+ Billion, takes a while! Blacks in America took 100 years to go from being free of slavery to getting civil rights, and even more for more integrated social acceptance. It took women even longer to get the right to vote. The gay issue really became the forefront social issue around 2005 and 10 years later there has never been a better time in history to be gay. 10 years! That's fast.

Now the Trans issue has seemingly become the world's forefront social issue overnight about 2-3 years ago and anyone who doesn't accept is doxxed and shamed and everything else. Most people have probably not even seen an obvious Trans person in their life. They are very rare and foreign to most. They obviously should have the same rights and freedoms as all but to expect it to quickly seems to lack historical context. Nevermind that attached to the trans movement is a movement that literally challenges the millenium old concept of gender and sex. You think people need to pick up on this so quickly? Maybe be understanding that a 50 year old hears 'gender is fluid and there are infinite states of gender' and thinks 'umm what'

Seems like the progressives are expecting massive scale societal change quicker and quicker for groups that are smaller and smaller, and to the uneducated, stranger and stranger.
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I give you eight seconds to figure it out

Yellow posted...

I give you eight seconds to figure it out

I swear one day we're gonna get hit with a really weird one. Beastiality, incest, pedophilia, public masturbation, whatever. And the timeline is going to be 0. We are going to be expected to just act as if it were already acceptable.
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Trana folk

I read this in a Don Cherry accent and assumed this was a topic about Torontonians.
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The current far-left is basically Veruca Salt from Charlie and the Chocolate Factory. Just whining and yelling and throwing a fit until everything settles how they want it to, because it seems to work. Even people who disagree tend to take the "anything for a quiet life" approach, only to see that it has now blown up in our faces... The era of acceptance has come with a very large, undeniable downside: it's not appropriate to question things. That's how the dark ages happened... At one time, criticism was something we all had to deal with, founded or not. Now there are rules about hearing things you don't want to and people telling everyone they're perfect all the time. Even something as innocuous as accidentally assuming another person's gender is enough to see you in hot water. Society has become a borderline-dictatorship with Tumblr's hive-mind as its hideous, blue-haired leader. That's why things have gone to shit. A moderate segment of the population apparently believes freedom of speech is now defined as "only being told what I want to hear."

The suicide rates among trans people aren't a coincidence, and only worsen following the operation. Taking your life is almost always a symptom of mental illness. While I am willing to concede that men and women have different brains and sexuality can fall into a few different categories, and that this allows for different combinations, we don't actually know infallibly what the "why, when, or how" are, or what the developmental factors are. I refuse to buy in to the current pseudo-science being pedalled and that no matter what anybody says, we should just go along with it, no matter how impossible it is. I'm sorry, but if you come up to me and say "I'm a non-binary (insert 10 more adjectives) unicorn," I will tell you you're insane and need help for your own sake, even if I look like a jerk. Maybe some blunt honesty is all some people need to get their head on straight, rather than being surrounded by "progressive" yespersons that want to make them feel good (or fear their wrath) and can't see the bigger picture (this isn't just about the topic at hand, but anything this happens with now, like obesity). Obviously that is an oversimplification, but you get the idea. Play the devil's advocate a bit, and it'll help them sort through their feelings better, perhaps... You wouldn't give a gambling addict your credit card, how is this radically different?
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Boobsicle posted...

Since then, you were accepted but looked at as weird and abnormal.

Literally a mass shooting of a gay night club last year.

I don't feel alive unless I'm driving 30 over the speed limit, I can't wait til I get acceptance for my way of life as every moment not blitzing past traffic sends pangs through my heart.
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TheCyborgNinja posted...

The current far-left is basically Veruca Salt from Charlie and the Chocolate FactoryThe era of acceptance has come with a very large, undeniable downside: it's not appropriate to question things. That's how the dark ages happened... At one time, criticism was something we all had to deal with, founded or not.

Okay, great. Let's question and criticize things you're saying.

The suicide rates among trans people aren't a coincidence, and only worsen following the operation.

Any sources on this? There's limited cohort studies on trans persons, and those that I know of aren't able to make the conclusion you've just stated, because it's particularly difficult to find matched populations to make such a comparison. For example, age and lifetime suicide attempts co-vary, as do age and transition progress. This could lead to a naive conclusion that transition is a causal factor for suicide attempts if that isn't taken into consideration.
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TheCyborgNinja posted...

The era of acceptance has come with a very large, undeniable downside: it's not appropriate to question things.

Things like your post?

TheCyborgNinja posted...

At one time, criticism was something we all had to deal with, founded or not.

And what you describe in the rest of your post *is* criticism. It's people saying they disagree with your views on transsexualism.

TheCyborgNinja posted...

Now there are rules about hearing things you don't want to and people telling everyone they're perfect all the time.

No, there aren't - not unless you means something other than "laws" when you say rules (and if you do mean something other than laws, you're talking about private codes of conduct, which have been people's right to enforce on their businesses for hundreds of years - free speech generally does not protect you from your employer).

TheCyborgNinja posted...

A moderate segment of the population apparently believes freedom of speech is now defined as "only being told what I want to hear."

And a different section of the population apparently believes freedom of speech is now defined as "being allowed to say whatever the hell I want with no consequences whatsoever, regardless of how offensive it is to the people I'm saying it to".

You're complaining about being yelled at by people on Tumblr when you make a transphobic comment, which is all kinds of hilarious considering that what you're complaining about is them exercising their right to freedom of speech.

TheCyborgNinja posted...

That's why things have gone to shit.

In what way have things "gone to shit"? Because people are yelling at each other over social issues? That's nothing new. I'm kind of happy we've actually mostly progressed on that - people used to resolve these disputes through fighting, mass rioting, and the occasional murder, which, while certainly still around, is much rarer than it was, say, 50 years ago.
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Boobsicle posted...

I understand wanting the same rights as everyone else. I totally agree with it even!

You say this but then a couple of posts down you compare being gay or trans to bestiality, incest, and pedophilia. So you'll have to forgive me if this just reads as concern-trolling bullshit to me.
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darkknight109 posted...

I'm kind of happy we've actually mostly progressed on that - people used to resolve these disputes through fighting, mass rioting, and the occasional murder, which, while certainly still around, is much rarer than it was, say, 50 years ago.

I'd argue that since things take a lot longer to come to blows, we take longer than we should to resolve issues and people with mild complaints feel much happier dragging these previously too-stupid-to-mention issues to mass protest.
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Kana posted...

You say this but then a couple of posts down you compare being gay or trans to bestiality, incest, and pedophilia. So you'll have to forgive me if this just reads as concern-trolling bullshit to me.

That comparison has been made for a loooooooong time, it's pretty dismissive to just call it trolling.
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Kyuubi4269 posted...

darkknight109 posted...

I'm kind of happy we've actually mostly progressed on that - people used to resolve these disputes through fighting, mass rioting, and the occasional murder, which, while certainly still around, is much rarer than it was, say, 50 years ago.

I'd argue that since things take a lot longer to come to blows, we take longer than we should to resolve issues and people with mild complaints feel much happier dragging these previously too-stupid-to-mention issues to mass protest.

Who cares, though? Mass protest, as long as it's nonviolent, costs society nothing. It is a peaceful means of expressing a view. Disagree with that view all you want; you can think it's dumb if you must. But it is infinitely preferable to people being attacked, beaten, or killed simply for holding an unpopular view.
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Kyuubi4269 posted...

Kana posted...

You say this but then a couple of posts down you compare being gay or trans to bestiality, incest, and pedophilia. So you'll have to forgive me if this just reads as concern-trolling bullshit to me.

That comparison has been made for a loooooooong time, it's pretty dismissive to just call it trolling.

I didn't say trolling I said concern-trolling. Bad-faith arguing is another word for it. Devil's advocate. Etc etc. It's generally considered to be unproductive to debates.
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I could care less if my son were gay, even if he raped dead animals I would love him just as much!

Kyuubi4269 posted...

Kana posted...

You say this but then a couple of posts down you compare being gay or trans to bestiality, incest, and pedophilia. So you'll have to forgive me if this just reads as concern-trolling bullshit to me.

That comparison has been made for a loooooooong time, it's pretty dismissive to just call it trolling.

That comparison has been made by concern trolls for a loooooooong time. Like that whole "gay marriage will lead to dog marriage" line of thinking only works if you believe gay marriage works like "one man marries another man against his will," and not "two men choose to marry each other." A man and a dog cannot both choose to marry each other.
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Kana posted...

Kyuubi4269 posted...

Kana posted...

You say this but then a couple of posts down you compare being gay or trans to bestiality, incest, and pedophilia. So you'll have to forgive me if this just reads as concern-trolling bullshit to me.

That comparison has been made for a loooooooong time, it's pretty dismissive to just call it trolling.

I didn't say trolling I said concern-trolling. Bad-faith arguing is another word for it. Devil's advocate. Etc etc. It's generally considered to be unproductive to debates.

actually I tend to play devils advocate and it does produce something in arguments, it tends to force the other person (or someone else in their stead) to put more thought or evidence with their argument. I tend to use this tactic when someone makes a very poorly thought out argument or lacking of any evidence to support them. even if I agree with someone I tend to hate stupid/poorly thought out arguments.
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This topic can effectively be summarized as, "I'm not homophobic or anything, but if all transfolk could just hide and stay silent, that'd be great".

Kana posted...

You say this but then a couple of posts down you compare being gay or trans to bestiality, incest, and pedophilia. So you'll have to forgive me if this just reads as concern-trolling bullshit to me.

Incest is a bit out of place there, though. There's nothing inherently wrong with it though, provided both are consenting adults. It's just gross to most people.

EightySeven posted...

Kana posted...

You say this but then a couple of posts down you compare being gay or trans to bestiality, incest, and pedophilia. So you'll have to forgive me if this just reads as concern-trolling bullshit to me.

Incest is a bit out of place there, though. There's nothing inherently wrong with it though, provided both are consenting adults. It's just gross to most people.

It actually dramatically increases the chance of birth defects, which any potential child would be equal parts innocent and a victim of.

Dash_Harber posted...

It actually dramatically increases the chance of birth defects, which any potential child would be equal parts innocent and a victim of.

A couple things:

1. Nobody said anything about having children. Birth control and gays exists.
2. There are plenty of genetic issues that are harmful that parents can pass down to their children.

EightySeven posted...

Dash_Harber posted...

It actually dramatically increases the chance of birth defects, which any potential child would be equal parts innocent and a victim of.

A couple things:

1. Nobody said anything about having children. Birth control and gays exists.
2. There are plenty of genetic issues that are harmful that parents can pass down to their children.

Fair enough, but if you are forcing birth control on someone, isn't that taking away their reproductive rights? As for incestuous homosexual relationships, I have no clue.

Dash_Harber posted...

Fair enough, but if you are forcing birth control on someone, isn't that taking away their reproductive rights?

No more so than disallowing them to have sex. We're not really talking about the legality of it, though, just the vague inherent "wrongness" of it.

EightySeven posted...

Dash_Harber posted...

Fair enough, but if you are forcing birth control on someone, isn't that taking away their reproductive rights?

No more so than disallowing them to have sex. We're not really talking about the legality of it, though, just the vague inherent "wrongness" of it.

I guess. Point is, though, that (along with the other categories he was talking about) have absolutely nothing to do with the topic at hand.

I actually read a article once that stated incest doesn't increase the odds of birth defect much at all unless its generation after generation.
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Dash_Harber posted...

I guess. Point is, though, that (along with the other categories he was talking about) have absolutely nothing to do with the topic at hand.

Topics tend to be fluid. It's very rare for a topic to strictly stick to the precise specifics of the initial post.

EightySeven posted...

Dash_Harber posted...

I guess. Point is, though, that (along with the other categories he was talking about) have absolutely nothing to do with the topic at hand.

Topics tend to be fluid. It's very rare for a topic to strictly stick to the precise specifics of the initial post.

Hey, pal, I'm not trying to argue with you.

mooreandrew58 posted...

I actually read a article once that stated incest doesn't increase the odds of birth defect much at all unless its generation after generation.

wikipedia says it's 20-36% for parent-child and sibling-sibling. Maybe you're thinking of cousins?

EightySeven posted...

mooreandrew58 posted...

I actually read a article once that stated incest doesn't increase the odds of birth defect much at all unless its generation after generation.

wikipedia says it's 20-36% for parent-child and sibling-sibling. Maybe you're thinking of cousins?

well yeah I think the article was defending cousins, and even it wasn't when most people commit incest it is with cousins rather than siblings. especially when you live in a are where half the fucking county is your cousin. (lived a few places like that, hell knew one place where an entire town everyone was related and you could tell just by looking at them aside from them all having the same last name)
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Trana folk = Kana folk

Golden Road posted...

Kyuubi4269 posted...

Kana posted...

You say this but then a couple of posts down you compare being gay or trans to bestiality, incest, and pedophilia. So you'll have to forgive me if this just reads as concern-trolling bullshit to me.

That comparison has been made for a loooooooong time, it's pretty dismissive to just call it trolling.

That comparison has been made by concern trolls for a loooooooong time. Like that whole "gay marriage will lead to dog marriage" line of thinking only works if you believe gay marriage works like "one man marries another man against his will," and not "two men choose to marry each other." A man and a dog cannot both choose to marry each other.

Concern troll sounds like such a tumblr name.

The comparison is made because people's dislike of one comes from the same place as the other, i.e. God says it's wrong to do either one. Their disagreement isn't based on reasoning or justification, it's purely based on God's word which they are strictly not supposed to question or understand why. When their moral code isn't based on something real but rather what people say, every moral statement is interlocked and if one part breaks then they have to reevaluate everything objectively without a preset moral code.

On reevaluation then why would a consenting family member or below AoC person be off-limits? If the response isn't well-reasoned and is explained as another rigid "You just don't" then the person would just go back to their previous unyielding rhetoric as the argument is just as sensible but has the advantage of familiarity and grandfathering.
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They aren't progressive, though
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