Poll of the Day > in 50000 years, some one is gonna find a copy of twilight

(+) Yeah! (+)

and it's gonna become the new Bible of that time
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I pray its literature on the flying spaghetti monsters instead. thinking of people following that made up religion but actually being serious about it would be humorous
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It's never going to be like that. In the past, there was absolutely no sure way to preserve information. Stone tablets and 2,000 year old scrolls happen to be fragile. On top of that, things had to be manually chiselled or written out, copying from preexisting text or oral records, massively limiting the availability of information that wasn't oral tradition.

Now everything is saved on the internet. We have literal digital copies of nearly every literary work or record on the planet. In order for that to disappear, you'd have to destroy every major city and server hub. At that point, we'd probably already be extinct.

Also, more importantly, though archaeological mix ups do happen, researchers tend to be pretty good at determining the context of a lot of works.

Dash_Harber posted...

It's never going to be like that. In the past, there was absolutely no sure way to preserve information. Stone tablets and 2,000 year old scrolls happen to be fragile. On top of that, things had to be manually chiselled or written out, copying from preexisting text or oral records, massively limiting the availability of information that wasn't oral tradition.

Now everything is saved on the internet. We have literal digital copies of nearly every literary work or record on the planet. In order for that to disappear, you'd have to destroy every major city and server hub. At that point, we'd probably already be extinct.

Also, more importantly, though archaeological mix ups do happen, researchers tend to be pretty good at determining the context of a lot of works.

eh but to say if we did get wiped out some other species might come along evolve and become the intelligent life form
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mooreandrew58 posted...

Dash_Harber posted...

It's never going to be like that. In the past, there was absolutely no sure way to preserve information. Stone tablets and 2,000 year old scrolls happen to be fragile. On top of that, things had to be manually chiselled or written out, copying from preexisting text or oral records, massively limiting the availability of information that wasn't oral tradition.

Now everything is saved on the internet. We have literal digital copies of nearly every literary work or record on the planet. In order for that to disappear, you'd have to destroy every major city and server hub. At that point, we'd probably already be extinct.

Also, more importantly, though archaeological mix ups do happen, researchers tend to be pretty good at determining the context of a lot of works.

eh but to say if we did get wiped out some other species might come along evolve and become the intelligent life form

In which case, their archeologists would probably realize it was a work of fiction; you know, like how we don't form religions around Robin Hood or Gilgamesh.

Dash_Harber posted...

mooreandrew58 posted...

Dash_Harber posted...

It's never going to be like that. In the past, there was absolutely no sure way to preserve information. Stone tablets and 2,000 year old scrolls happen to be fragile. On top of that, things had to be manually chiselled or written out, copying from preexisting text or oral records, massively limiting the availability of information that wasn't oral tradition.

Now everything is saved on the internet. We have literal digital copies of nearly every literary work or record on the planet. In order for that to disappear, you'd have to destroy every major city and server hub. At that point, we'd probably already be extinct.

Also, more importantly, though archaeological mix ups do happen, researchers tend to be pretty good at determining the context of a lot of works.

eh but to say if we did get wiped out some other species might come along evolve and become the intelligent life form

In which case, their archeologists would probably realize it was a work of fiction; you know, like how we don't form religions around Robin Hood or Gilgamesh.

said intelligent life might not be that intelligent yet. and those are known works of fiction. (not so up to snuff on my knowledge about the tale of gilgamesh) but all it took for the human race to be swayed was someone saying they spoke to god, and wrote a book on it.

better argument would be is almost none of our religions are based on scriptures we found buried somewhere.
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mooreandrew58 posted...

Dash_Harber posted...

mooreandrew58 posted...

Dash_Harber posted...

It's never going to be like that. In the past, there was absolutely no sure way to preserve information. Stone tablets and 2,000 year old scrolls happen to be fragile. On top of that, things had to be manually chiselled or written out, copying from preexisting text or oral records, massively limiting the availability of information that wasn't oral tradition.

Now everything is saved on the internet. We have literal digital copies of nearly every literary work or record on the planet. In order for that to disappear, you'd have to destroy every major city and server hub. At that point, we'd probably already be extinct.

Also, more importantly, though archaeological mix ups do happen, researchers tend to be pretty good at determining the context of a lot of works.

eh but to say if we did get wiped out some other species might come along evolve and become the intelligent life form

In which case, their archeologists would probably realize it was a work of fiction; you know, like how we don't form religions around Robin Hood or Gilgamesh.

said intelligent life might not be that intelligent yet. and those are known works of fiction. (not so up to snuff on my knowledge about the tale of gilgamesh) but all it took for the human race to be swayed was someone saying they spoke to god, and wrote a book on it.

better argument would be is almost none of our religions are based on scriptures we found buried somewhere.

So how are they not intelligent enough to understand fiction, but are intelligent enough to read the language of an extinct species?

Dash_Harber posted...

mooreandrew58 posted...

Dash_Harber posted...

mooreandrew58 posted...

Dash_Harber posted...

It's never going to be like that. In the past, there was absolutely no sure way to preserve information. Stone tablets and 2,000 year old scrolls happen to be fragile. On top of that, things had to be manually chiselled or written out, copying from preexisting text or oral records, massively limiting the availability of information that wasn't oral tradition.

Now everything is saved on the internet. We have literal digital copies of nearly every literary work or record on the planet. In order for that to disappear, you'd have to destroy every major city and server hub. At that point, we'd probably already be extinct.

Also, more importantly, though archaeological mix ups do happen, researchers tend to be pretty good at determining the context of a lot of works.

eh but to say if we did get wiped out some other species might come along evolve and become the intelligent life form

In which case, their archeologists would probably realize it was a work of fiction; you know, like how we don't form religions around Robin Hood or Gilgamesh.

said intelligent life might not be that intelligent yet. and those are known works of fiction. (not so up to snuff on my knowledge about the tale of gilgamesh) but all it took for the human race to be swayed was someone saying they spoke to god, and wrote a book on it.

better argument would be is almost none of our religions are based on scriptures we found buried somewhere.

So how are they not intelligent enough to understand fiction, but are intelligent enough to read the language of an extinct species?

same way some people understand language and fiction but dumb enough to believe the crazy dude who allegedly spoke to god. now days we call those crazy people with voices in their head, but once upon a time people believe them.

more likely scenario would be they wouldn't suddenly start worshiping said fictional god but would think we did. i'm talking flying sphaghetti monster, not twillight here, it would take a real dummy to think that was religious in anyway. pastafarians atleast somewhat mimic religion
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mooreandrew58 posted...

Dash_Harber posted...

mooreandrew58 posted...

Dash_Harber posted...

mooreandrew58 posted...

Dash_Harber posted...

It's never going to be like that. In the past, there was absolutely no sure way to preserve information. Stone tablets and 2,000 year old scrolls happen to be fragile. On top of that, things had to be manually chiselled or written out, copying from preexisting text or oral records, massively limiting the availability of information that wasn't oral tradition.

Now everything is saved on the internet. We have literal digital copies of nearly every literary work or record on the planet. In order for that to disappear, you'd have to destroy every major city and server hub. At that point, we'd probably already be extinct.

Also, more importantly, though archaeological mix ups do happen, researchers tend to be pretty good at determining the context of a lot of works.

eh but to say if we did get wiped out some other species might come along evolve and become the intelligent life form

In which case, their archeologists would probably realize it was a work of fiction; you know, like how we don't form religions around Robin Hood or Gilgamesh.

said intelligent life might not be that intelligent yet. and those are known works of fiction. (not so up to snuff on my knowledge about the tale of gilgamesh) but all it took for the human race to be swayed was someone saying they spoke to god, and wrote a book on it.

better argument would be is almost none of our religions are based on scriptures we found buried somewhere.

So how are they not intelligent enough to understand fiction, but are intelligent enough to read the language of an extinct species?

same way some people understand language and fiction but dumb enough to believe the crazy dude who allegedly spoke to god. now days we call those crazy people with voices in their head, but once upon a time people believe them

I think you are starting to lose track of the hypothetical scenario here.

I editied my post. as said i'm speaking more on the one I posed rather than OP
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Cthulhu will rise and punish those who defy him. No fiction will remain.
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If any books will found a religion, they'll be by Tolkien.
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Dash_Harber posted...

It's never going to be like that. In the past, there was absolutely no sure way to preserve information. Stone tablets and 2,000 year old scrolls happen to be fragile. On top of that, things had to be manually chiselled or written out, copying from preexisting text or oral records, massively limiting the availability of information that wasn't oral tradition.

Now everything is saved on the internet. We have literal digital copies of nearly every literary work or record on the planet. In order for that to disappear, you'd have to destroy every major city and server hub. At that point, we'd probably already be extinct.

Also, more importantly, though archaeological mix ups do happen, researchers tend to be pretty good at determining the context of a lot of works.

mass emps
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in the society of it's time, Gilgamesh was not fiction, it was believed in as a religious historical fact. in our society, we still know that Twilight is fiction. there is a difference

The books? Or the movies?

This is important cause if they find the movies, then all the females will think looking like Kristen Stewart is attractive and I think she's quite hot. I can get behind that kind of society!!!

The downside is the dudes might try to make themselves sparkle...but who cares about the dudes?
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Zikten posted...

in the society of it's time, Gilgamesh was not fiction, it was believed in as a religious historical fact. in our society, we still know that Twilight is fiction. there is a difference

Technically might not be the case. We actually have no idea how literal The Epic of Gilgamesh was taken, or whether it was allegorical, or whether it was a story to entertain children. We don't even have a fully intact copy of it.

That being said, the point of the topic was that someone could misinterpret a work like Twilight as being the source for religious thought, which would be the equivalent of us forming a modern religion about a character from a past fiction, such as Jane Eyre or Robin Hood or Gatsby. It's a pretty unlikely scenario.

How would a DVD be a bible
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as Richard Feynman pointed out, the civilization of the Mayans was reduced to three books (the rest having been 'deleted' by the Spanish). So, it makes you think, if our civilization was reduced to three books, which three books would it be, and how would that make us look to anyone who found them.
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Zikten posted...

in the society of it's time, Gilgamesh was not fiction, it was believed in as a religious historical fact. in our society, we still know that Twilight is fiction. there is a difference

fifty thousand years, dude.
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Krazy_Kirby posted...

Dash_Harber posted...

It's never going to be like that. In the past, there was absolutely no sure way to preserve information. Stone tablets and 2,000 year old scrolls happen to be fragile. On top of that, things had to be manually chiselled or written out, copying from preexisting text or oral records, massively limiting the availability of information that wasn't oral tradition.

Now everything is saved on the internet. We have literal digital copies of nearly every literary work or record on the planet. In order for that to disappear, you'd have to destroy every major city and server hub. At that point, we'd probably already be extinct.

Also, more importantly, though archaeological mix ups do happen, researchers tend to be pretty good at determining the context of a lot of works.

mass emps

I'm pretty sure that is both science fiction and would cripple humanity to the point of extreme instability at this point.

Dash_Harber posted...

I'm pretty sure that is both science fiction and would cripple humanity to the point of extreme instability at this point.

helIy posted...

fifty thousand years, dude.

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Dash_Harber posted...

It's never going to be like that. In the past, there was absolutely no sure way to preserve information. Stone tablets and 2,000 year old scrolls happen to be fragile. On top of that, things had to be manually chiselled or written out, copying from preexisting text or oral records, massively limiting the availability of information that wasn't oral tradition.

Now everything is saved on the internet. We have literal digital copies of nearly every literary work or record on the planet. In order for that to disappear, you'd have to destroy every major city and server hub. At that point, we'd probably already be extinct.

Also, more importantly, though archaeological mix ups do happen, researchers tend to be pretty good at determining the context of a lot of works.

most digital information technology won't even last 100 years let alone 50,000. reading about it, even M-discs which are designed to be "permanent" only theoretically last 1000 years.

...

ok, googling 'eternal data storage', I did find what is called 5D memory storage.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Superman_memory_crystal

can theoretically store 360TB on one "disc" (not sure of size of disc) and is theoretically permanent since it's basically pure quartz crystal that is written to with a laser. that is fairly awesome.
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helIy posted...

Dash_Harber posted...

I'm pretty sure that is both science fiction and would cripple humanity to the point of extreme instability at this point.

helIy posted...

fifty thousand years, dude.

Yes, it would be found 50,000 years from now, but the data we have now would requires us to go extinct in the near future for it to be 'dug up' in the future. If an EMP bomb went off 50,000 years from now, people would still be alive before the blast went off and we would all still be aware of what was fiction and what was not.

do you understand the vast amount of variables that are in 50,000 years dude

i dont think you do

the odds of there being another stone age is higher than just nothing happening
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helIy posted...

do you understand the vast amount of variables that are in 50,000 years dude

i dont think you do

the odds of there being another stone age is higher than just nothing happening

That's the fucking point. First, something has to happen to us to wipe out all digital records, but not humans. That thing would have to happen at least a few 1,000 years before the end date (since a few generations is hardly enough for knowledge to become completely lost). My only point in criticizing 'EMPs' is because that would have to happen long before the 50,000 year end date. Second, those 'variables' are equally likely to destroy every copy of Twilight.

dude

fifty

thousand

years

What is so hard to understand about this
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Popular lit sticks around. Good lit that isn't really read doesn't.

The Golden Ass is only Ancient Roman novel in Latin to survive in its entirety. It's a story about a guy who gets turned into a donkey and ends up in a donkey show.
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Sahuagin posted...

and how would that make us look to anyone who found them.

Well, if they somehow got to see how society is now, they'd probably just think we were nothing more than a society idiots.
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And the alien anthropologists
Admitted they were still perplexed
But on eliminating every other reason
For our sad demise
They logged the only explanation left:
This species has amused itself to death
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unless there is a catastrophe. I doubt humanity will lose data and knowledge

DrChocolate posted...

unless there is a catastrophe. I doubt humanity will lose data and knowledge

he says despite having actual evidence that it's happened before
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I think they would be able to tell by the way it's written that it's just a story. I have no interest in Twilight at all but I imagine the book starts off with a sentence like, "Bella woke up with her hair in a mess and gloomily got up to get ready for school." It doesn't even take a highschool diploma to tell a book that starts that way is just a story and not telling about historical facts.
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have you ever watched Live Freaky! Die Freaky! it's pretty much the same conscept of this topic. but instead of twilight they find Helter Skelter.
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ernieforss posted...

have you ever watched Live Freaky! Die Freaky! it's pretty much the same conscept of this topic. but instead of twilight they find Helter Skelter.

Never heard of it. Frankly I prefer a more darker post Apocalyptic scenario. Like the Book of Eli.
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helIy posted...

dude

fifty

thousand

years

What is so hard to understand about this

So the EMPs are going to go off in 50,000 years and the next day someone is going to dig up a copy of Twilight and base a book on it? What about this timeline is so hard to understand as lunacy?

helIy posted...

he says despite having actual evidence that it's happened before

Yes, and when it happened before, there were all the limitations I pointed out earlier, like, you know some books not even having 100 copies and every single recording being hand written and incredibly flammable. That's like saying "We are going to have a polio epidemic, because it happened before" despite the fact that current medical technology works a whole fuck load different than it did even 60 years ago.

why are you so stuck on EMPs dude

that's like 1 of several million things that can happen in fifty thousand years
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helIy posted...

why are you so stuck on EMPs dude

that's like 1 of several million things that can happen in fifty thousand years

No, I responded to a post about that and you kept it going.

I think you are losing focus here;

The past is not a good measure if what is going to happen because there are about a billion different variables. Technology for preserving and sharing data is about 2,000 years more advanced than it was when the Great Library was burned to the ground.

Now, since books and data are so important to our society, anything that wipes us out, would probably effect said data storage methods. The idea that a paperback could survive 50,000 years is ludicrous, especially if the better part of those fifty millennium is spent without humans keeping it. Whether it's an EMP, or a global extinction, or anything else that leaves us with no one to steward copies of the book, it's pretty much impossible for them to survive in the elements.

Yes, 50,000 years is a long time and a lot can happen. But what do you think the chances are that we will be wiped out, our collective records of everything will be destroyed, but a few copies of a popular book from the 2,000's will be preserved in good enough condition to read?

Then, on top of that, you have a society of aliens or future humans, with 50,000 years since our version spoken or read English was used. They have a society that is advanced enough to decipher a language that is 50,000 years old (for reference, that is almost 10x as far separated as we are from ancient Semitic, do you speak ancient Semitic? Why not?) but they are stupid enough to mistake a melodramatic teen novel for a guide for ritual and prayer.

It's not as if primitive tribal aliens are going to evolve on the planet, find a pristine copy of a 50,000 year old paperback novel, read a 50,000 year old dialect of a probably extinct language, and suddenly believe that the book that has no absolutely no ritual, prayer, or divine aspects is the foundation of their new religion.

What part of that is so hard for you to understand?

as I mentioned, that scenario has already basically happened, if you bend the details slightly (ok, and ignore the 'starts a new religion' part). the mayans had thousands of stone books and they were all destroyed and reduced down to three, and what we know of their civilization stems mostly from those three books. (reading about it, the number may be four and not three.)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maya_codices
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Dash_Harber posted...

What part of that is so hard for you to understand?

just a few examples of things that can happen

nuclear halocaust
ice age
asteroid hitting the earth
cataclysmic polar shift
super volcanoes
viral outbreak

literally every single one of those things would reduce us back to a stone age.

the fact that you're stuck on dumb as fuck EMPs is baffling. we can very easily fix EMP damage. it's a huge inconvenience, at best.
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helIy posted...

nuclear halocaust
ice age
asteroid hitting the earth
cataclysmic polar shift
super volcanoes
viral outbreak

How will paper back books survive 50,000 without us taking care of it? Or a super volcano? Do you think paper can survive and be readable for 50,000 years? Do you realize how much of an effort it is to preserve paper from just a few hundred years ago? That's not to mention things like wild animals and nature reclaiming out structures.

And calm the fuck down about the EMP. The only time I mentioned it was in response to someone telling me it could happen. Jesus Christ. If you'd care to fucking read anything I posted, you realized that we agree that it's not going to result in the scenario you laid out.

Dash_Harber posted...

The only time I mentioned it

you mentioned it like 17 times, it's all you've mentioned dude.

Dash_Harber posted...

How will paper back books survive 50,000 without us taking care of it? Or a super volcano? Do you think paper can survive and be readable for 50,000 years? Do you realize how much of an effort it is to preserve paper from just a few hundred years ago? That's not to mention things like wild animals and nature reclaiming out structures.

fifty.

thousand.

years.
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helIy posted...

fifty.

thousand.

years.

HOW IS TWILIGHT GOING TO SURVIVE FIFTY THOUSAND YEARS IN THE DIRT BUT SOMEHOW ALSO BE READABLE AND PERFECTLY PRESERVED FOR PEOPLE WHO SOMEHOW SPEAK A 50,000 YEAR OLD DIALECT OF A 50,000 YEAR OLD LANGUAGE?

Here, really simple. Here is an example of 800 year old English;
http://www.public.asu.edu/~gelderen/hel/chron.html

Can you read it without the translation?

The oldest book we have is around 2,500 years. Books decompose over time. In a landfill, paper only takes a few weeks to decompose. Some pests (like silverfish) eat books. Without us keeping them safe and tidy, they would be broken down long before 50,000 years. If you are still understanding that paper deteriorates over time, read this;
https://www.loc.gov/preservation/care/deterioratebrochure.html

It doesn't matter if it's 50,000 or 500,000 years, after a certain point, paperback books are going to decompose. If there are people around to preserve them, however, they also will know what they are, and there would be no reason for confusion.

Either they survive because we let them (resulting in us knowing exactly what they are) or they rot because we can't take care of them, in which case there will be no books to dig up. Even if it reduced us to the 'stone age' (which is stupid in itself because we wouldn't instantly lose all knowledge because survival became tougher), it wouldn't make sense that language would stop evolving for 50,000 years to the point where you could pick up a 50,000 year old book and read it.

Dash_Harber posted...

If you'd care to fucking read anything I posted

in case you aren't aware, 'arguing' with helly is really not good for your mental health
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Sahuagin posted...

Dash_Harber posted...

If you'd care to fucking read anything I posted

in case you aren't aware, 'arguing' with helly is really not good for your mental health

Sorry, I'm new here. The basic fact that he thinks decomposition will cease to exist in the next 50,000 years should have been a surefire sign.

it's not my fault the dude doesn't understand a what if scenario like a normal person

Dash_Harber posted...

(which is stupid in itself because we wouldn't instantly lose all knowledge because survival became tougher)

tell that to the dinosaurs dude
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helIy posted...

it's not my fault the dude doesn't understand a what if scenario like a normal person

Dash_Harber posted...

(which is stupid in itself because we wouldn't instantly lose all knowledge because survival became tougher)

tell that to the dinosaurs dude

The dinosaurs ... lost all their collective knowledge because of a doomsday scenario?

Dash_Harber posted...

helIy posted...

it's not my fault the dude doesn't understand a what if scenario like a normal person

Dash_Harber posted...

(which is stupid in itself because we wouldn't instantly lose all knowledge because survival became tougher)

tell that to the dinosaurs dude

The dinosaurs ... lost all their collective knowledge because of a doomsday scenario?

You didn't know that a meteor has the power of the flashy thing from Men in Black?
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Dash_Harber posted...

helIy posted...

it's not my fault the dude doesn't understand a what if scenario like a normal person

Dash_Harber posted...

(which is stupid in itself because we wouldn't instantly lose all knowledge because survival became tougher)

tell that to the dinosaurs dude

The dinosaurs ... lost all their collective knowledge because of a doomsday scenario?

they all fucken died, didn't they
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helIy posted...

Dash_Harber posted...

helIy posted...

it's not my fault the dude doesn't understand a what if scenario like a normal person

Dash_Harber posted...

(which is stupid in itself because we wouldn't instantly lose all knowledge because survival became tougher)

tell that to the dinosaurs dude

The dinosaurs ... lost all their collective knowledge because of a doomsday scenario?

they all fucken died, didn't they

And that means that paper will somehow stop degrading and that people will speak English the exact same way for the next 50,000 years?

Dash_Harber posted...

will speak English the exact same way for the next 50,000 years?

just like we all speak the same languages from thousands of years ago, and yet still translated them?


Dash_Harber posted...

And that means that paper will somehow stop degrading

in the right conditions paper degradation slows to a crawl

it's how we have all these old books from thousands of years ago
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