Current Events > Who pathed the way for mass European colonization of the Americas?

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RebelElite791 08/22/17 12:22:21 AM #52:	Esrac posted... RebelElite791 posted... Cj_WlLL_VVlN posted... RebelElite791 posted... Why is mass colonization of the Americas a good thing that deserves praise? For one I exist and that's important Because you wouldve never been born in the country your ancestors came from? Im not sure "i was born in America" justifies what was done to the natives No, he never would've been born in the country (or countries) his ancestors came from. The chain of events, spanning hundreds of years, would have been so radically different that anyone who is currently alive in the United States would not likely be alive today had Europeans not successfully colonized North America and displaced the native popultion. We would have a radicallu diffrent world with a uniquely seperate group individual descendents. Unless there's some sci-fi timeline shenanigans where we could expect ourselves to exist more or less the same, except now we have a cockney accent or something. There's also no reason to think that "if Europeans didnt take over america i wouldnt exist" either. Its an entirely pointless hypothetical. --- http://i.imgur.com/MS5SvzN.gif https://i.imgur.com/ahQpG57.jpg <cite>RebelElite791 posted [p:885216761] in Who pathed... [t:75695317]...</cite> <quote><cite>Esrac posted...</cite> <quote><cite>RebelElite791 posted...</cite> <quote><cite>Cj_WlLL_VVlN posted...</cite> <quote><cite>RebelElite791 posted...</cite> <quote>Why is mass colonization of the Americas a good thing that deserves praise?</quote> For one I exist and that's important</quote> Because you wouldve never been born in the country your ancestors came from? Im not sure "i was born in America" justifies what was done to the natives</quote> No, he never would've been born in the country (or countries) his ancestors came from. The chain of events, spanning hundreds of years, would have been so radically different that anyone who is currently alive in the United States would not likely be alive today had Europeans not successfully colonized North America and displaced the native popultion. We would have a radicallu diffrent world with a uniquely seperate group individual descendents. Unless there's some sci-fi timeline shenanigans where we could expect ourselves to exist more or less the same, except now we have a cockney accent or something.</quote> There's also no reason to think that "if Europeans didnt take over america i wouldnt exist" either. Its an entirely pointless hypothetical.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
RickyTheBAWSE 08/22/17 12:22:35 AM #53:	Capn Circus posted... RickyTheBAWSE posted... I concede that Columbus played a major role of winter coming to America. not that I'm on record for saying otherwise. I'm just trying to figure out why you're coming off as if he should be praised. I applaud you for your honesty in acknowledging the truth compared to others in this topic (besides the poll results, of course). As far as whether or not he should be praised, I think that calls for another time in another topic, given the fact we have people currently struggling with objective truth. We can't have a discussion about praise or condemnation if people won't even acknowledge facts of the matter. fair enough. another time. --- Never let those intent on misunderstanding you be the narrator to your story! BAWSE! <cite>RickyTheBAWSE posted [p:885216772] in Who pathed... [t:75695317]...</cite> <quote><cite>Capn Circus posted...</cite> <quote><cite>RickyTheBAWSE posted...</cite> <quote> I concede that Columbus played a major role of winter coming to America. not that I'm on record for saying otherwise. I'm just trying to figure out why you're coming off as if he should be praised.</quote> I applaud you for your honesty in acknowledging the truth compared to others in this topic (besides the poll results, of course). As far as whether or not he should be praised, I think that calls for another time in another topic, given the fact we have people currently struggling with objective truth. We can't have a discussion about praise or condemnation if people won't even acknowledge facts of the matter.</quote> fair enough. another time.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Esrac 08/22/17 12:31:13 AM #54:	RebelElite791 posted... Esrac posted... RebelElite791 posted... Cj_WlLL_VVlN posted... RebelElite791 posted... Why is mass colonization of the Americas a good thing that deserves praise? For one I exist and that's important Because you wouldve never been born in the country your ancestors came from? Im not sure "i was born in America" justifies what was done to the natives No, he never would've been born in the country (or countries) his ancestors came from. The chain of events, spanning hundreds of years, would have been so radically different that anyone who is currently alive in the United States would not likely be alive today had Europeans not successfully colonized North America and displaced the native popultion. We would have a radicallu diffrent world with a uniquely seperate group individual descendents. Unless there's some sci-fi timeline shenanigans where we could expect ourselves to exist more or less the same, except now we have a cockney accent or something. There's also no reason to think that "if Europeans didnt take over america i wouldnt exist" either. Its an entirely pointless hypothetical. No, there is entirely valid reason to think that. Reality doesn't follow sci-fi timeline nonsense. If his ancestors, on his mother's and father's sides, going back numerous generations, had not immigrated to the US when they did (or pre-revolutionary war colonies depending on the circumstances), none of the series of events would've occurred that would have necessarily had to occur to culminate in his existence. In the same way that if any number of events did not occur in history, we'd have a very different present. If his appreciation for Columbus is his influence on the colonization process had a positive impact on Tv's eventual existence, then it isn't really pointless for him because the European colonization of North America is an essential event for his existence. The same is the case for every American. --- http://steamcommunity.com/id/Esrac <cite>Esrac posted [p:885217142] in Who pathed... [t:75695317]...</cite> <quote><cite>RebelElite791 posted...</cite> <quote><cite>Esrac posted...</cite> <quote><cite>RebelElite791 posted...</cite> <quote><cite>Cj_WlLL_VVlN posted...</cite> <quote><cite>RebelElite791 posted...</cite> <quote>Why is mass colonization of the Americas a good thing that deserves praise?</quote> For one I exist and that's important</quote> Because you wouldve never been born in the country your ancestors came from? Im not sure "i was born in America" justifies what was done to the natives</quote> No, he never would've been born in the country (or countries) his ancestors came from. The chain of events, spanning hundreds of years, would have been so radically different that anyone who is currently alive in the United States would not likely be alive today had Europeans not successfully colonized North America and displaced the native popultion. We would have a radicallu diffrent world with a uniquely seperate group individual descendents. Unless there's some sci-fi timeline shenanigans where we could expect ourselves to exist more or less the same, except now we have a cockney accent or something.</quote> There's also no reason to think that "if Europeans didnt take over america i wouldnt exist" either. Its an entirely pointless hypothetical.</quote> No, there is entirely valid reason to think that. Reality doesn't follow sci-fi timeline nonsense. If his ancestors, on his mother's and father's sides, going back numerous generations, had not immigrated to the US when they did (or pre-revolutionary war colonies depending on the circumstances), none of the series of events would've occurred that would have necessarily had to occur to culminate in his existence. In the same way that if any number of events did not occur in history, we'd have a very different present. If his appreciation for Columbus is his influence on the colonization process had a positive impact on Tv's eventual existence, then it isn't really pointless for him because the European colonization of North America is an essential event for his existence. The same is the case for every American.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
RickyTheBAWSE 08/22/17 12:42:25 AM #55:	if I could prevent that level of suffering from happening to millions of people at the cost of erasing my own existence, I'd do it. it's not like I'd be dying or anything, lol. --- Never let those intent on misunderstanding you be the narrator to your story! BAWSE! <cite>RickyTheBAWSE posted [p:885217506] in Who pathed... [t:75695317]...</cite> <quote>if I could prevent that level of suffering from happening to millions of people at the cost of erasing my own existence, I'd do it. it's not like I'd be dying or anything, lol.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Capn Circus 08/22/17 12:47:22 AM #56:	Wow.. 12 people believe someone else pathed the way besides Columbus, yet no other examples. Really, really, sad. --- "I think that man will be president right about the time when spaceships come down filled with dinosaurs in red capes" - Tom Hanks <cite>Capn Circus posted [p:885217667] in Who pathed... [t:75695317]...</cite> <quote>Wow.. 12 people believe someone else pathed the way besides Columbus, yet no other examples. Really, really, sad.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Dash_Harber 08/22/17 12:49:20 AM #57:	It's not exactly a person. It's Imperialism. Columbus was the first to sail in his day. Prior to that, the Scandinavians had already established colonies in present day Canada. There was knowledge of at least islands in between the west and China. However, it was the idea of imperialism that started the rush. It's the same idea that breathed life into the Scramble for Africa. <cite>Dash_Harber posted [p:885217744] in Who pathed... [t:75695317]...</cite> <quote>It's not exactly a person. It's Imperialism. Columbus was the first to sail in his day. Prior to that, the Scandinavians had already established colonies in present day Canada. There was knowledge of at least islands in between the west and China. However, it was the idea of imperialism that started the rush. It's the same idea that breathed life into the Scramble for Africa.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
qyll3 08/22/17 12:50:22 AM #58:	Several things had to happen for European colonization. Remember that the first and foremost reason for sailing West was to find a way to the Spice Islands, which is in modern day Indonesia. The markup from importing spice into Europe by Arab traders was the impetus to find an alternate route. So maybe you could say that the Arab traders paved the way for mass colonization. OK, but that was the spark. What kept the fire going? A bunch of things, but most important are trade goods and religion. If you had to bet on who would reach the Americas first, the odds on favorite must have been Ming China. Zheng He even reached all the west to East Africa in the early 15th century, but China never thought about colonization because a) they were happy being the big dog in East Asia, b) they practiced mostly Confucianism, which was not as wont to spread as Christianity. Yet we all know what happened once the French, Dutch, Portuguese, and English got their hands on Africa. So maybe Jesus was the drive for mass colonization, who knows. Also, Columbus might have paved the way for mass colonization for Spain, but you could equally argue that Cabral paved the way for Portugal or Hudson did it for England. --- No sig here <cite>qyll3 posted [p:885217765] in Who pathed... [t:75695317]...</cite> <quote>Several things had to happen for European colonization. Remember that the first and foremost reason for sailing West was to find a way to the Spice Islands, which is in modern day Indonesia. The markup from importing spice into Europe by Arab traders was the impetus to find an alternate route. So maybe you could say that the Arab traders paved the way for mass colonization. OK, but that was the spark. What kept the fire going? A bunch of things, but most important are trade goods and religion. If you had to bet on who would reach the Americas first, the odds on favorite must have been Ming China. Zheng He even reached all the west to East Africa in the early 15th century, but China never thought about colonization because a) they were happy being the big dog in East Asia, b) they practiced mostly Confucianism, which was not as wont to spread as Christianity. Yet we all know what happened once the French, Dutch, Portuguese, and English got their hands on Africa. So maybe Jesus was the drive for mass colonization, who knows. Also, Columbus might have paved the way for mass colonization for Spain, but you could equally argue that Cabral paved the way for Portugal or Hudson did it for England.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Cj_WlLL_VVlN 08/22/17 12:51:06 AM #59:	RebelElite791 posted... Cj_WlLL_VVlN posted... RebelElite791 posted... Why is mass colonization of the Americas a good thing that deserves praise? For one I exist and that's important Because you wouldve never been born in the country your ancestors came from? Im not sure "i was born in America" justifies what was done to the natives I mean I doubt any of us would. My mom's family is from Ireland on both sides with lots of migration to America. Would my relatives have found each other in America if my grand Mas family in Armagh and my grand dads family stayed in galway. Now without the mass exodus to America during the famine do they both find and fall in love with different people who weren't an option. That's one side. Dads side would be more confusing. Were all incredibly special just by being born because all the factors required. That said do I actually think that my existence justifies all the atrocities. Probably not but overall I think America has done more good than it's done bad and who knows where the world would have gone. I think by and large I wouldn't gamble with the past and change something. --- Give me your tired, your poor,Your masses yearning to breathe free,The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.Send these, the homeless, tempest tossed, to me. <cite>Cj_WlLL_VVlN posted [p:885217784] in Who pathed... [t:75695317]...</cite> <quote><cite>RebelElite791 posted...</cite> <quote><cite>Cj_WlLL_VVlN posted...</cite> <quote><cite>RebelElite791 posted...</cite> <quote>Why is mass colonization of the Americas a good thing that deserves praise?</quote> For one I exist and that's important</quote> Because you wouldve never been born in the country your ancestors came from? Im not sure "i was born in America" justifies what was done to the natives</quote> I mean I doubt any of us would. My mom's family is from Ireland on both sides with lots of migration to America. Would my relatives have found each other in America if my grand Mas family in Armagh and my grand dads family stayed in galway. Now without the mass exodus to America during the famine do they both find and fall in love with different people who weren't an option. That's one side. Dads side would be more confusing. Were all incredibly special just by being born because all the factors required. That said do I actually think that my existence justifies all the atrocities. Probably not but overall I think America has done more good than it's done bad and who knows where the world would have gone. I think by and large I wouldn't gamble with the past and change something.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Capn Circus 08/22/17 1:03:19 AM #60:	Dash_Harber posted... It's not exactly a person. It's Imperialism. Columbus was the first to sail in his day. Prior to that, the Scandinavians had already established colonies in present day Canada. There was knowledge of at least islands in between the west and China. However, it was the idea of imperialism that started the rush. It's the same idea that breathed life into the Scramble for Africa. So.. If Columbus didn't sail and didn't lead later colonization efforts---would Scandinavians have eventually reached out to broader Europe and said, "Hey guys, come on over!" and we would honor some random Scandinavian that may or may not have reached out to Europe? There are important people in history whether you want to believe so or not. The "idea" or "drive" for a people doesn't supersede one's actual accomplishments or work. Do we stop recognizing people who created technologies such as electricity or aviation simply because they were operating from previous knowledge? Should we not honor MLK because someone would have eventually led the Civil rights marches? --- "I think that man will be president right about the time when spaceships come down filled with dinosaurs in red capes" - Tom Hanks <cite>Capn Circus posted [p:885218156] in Who pathed... [t:75695317]...</cite> <quote><cite>Dash_Harber posted...</cite> <quote>It's not exactly a person. It's Imperialism. Columbus was the first to sail in his day. Prior to that, the Scandinavians had already established colonies in present day Canada. There was knowledge of at least islands in between the west and China. However, it was the idea of imperialism that started the rush. It's the same idea that breathed life into the Scramble for Africa.</quote> So.. If Columbus didn't sail and didn't lead later colonization efforts---would Scandinavians have eventually reached out to broader Europe and said, "Hey guys, come on over!" and we would honor some random Scandinavian that may or may not have reached out to Europe? There are important people in history whether you want to believe so or not. The "idea" or "drive" for a people doesn't supersede one's actual accomplishments or work. Do we stop recognizing people who created technologies such as electricity or aviation simply because they were operating from previous knowledge? Should we not honor MLK because someone would have eventually led the Civil rights marches?</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
weapon_d00d816 08/22/17 1:08:34 AM #61:	RebelElite791 posted... Why is mass colonization of the Americas a good thing that deserves praise? You wouldn't be here to shitpost if it weren't a thing. --- SIG SIG SIG SIG SIG SIG SIG SIG SIG SIG SIG SIG SIG SIG SIG SIG SIG SIG SIG SlG SIG SIG SIG SIG SIG SIG SIG SIG SIG SIG SIG SIG SIG SIG SlG <cite>weapon_d00d816 posted [p:885218344] in Who pathed... [t:75695317]...</cite> <quote><cite>RebelElite791 posted...</cite> <quote>Why is mass colonization of the Americas a good thing that deserves praise?</quote> You wouldn't be here to shitpost if it weren't a thing.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Aristoph 08/22/17 3:08:05 AM #62:	Capn Circus posted... Aristoph posted... No really. "pathed" Why is there not more attention on this? "Pathed" is correct. Just like some SJWs will tell you referring to people as "they" is correct. The word is "PAVED." As in "paving a street" or "putting down pavement." "Pathed" almost as stupid as "irregardless." --- PSN ID: Aristoph http://www.youtube.com/user/SotCRules <cite>Aristoph posted [p:885221800] in Who pathed... [t:75695317]...</cite> <quote><cite>Capn Circus posted...</cite> <quote><cite>Aristoph posted...</cite> <quote>No really. "pathed" Why is there not more attention on this?</quote> "Pathed" is correct. Just like some SJWs will tell you referring to people as "they" is correct.</quote> The word is "PAVED." As in "paving a street" or "putting down pavement." "Pathed" almost as stupid as "irregardless."</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Dash_Harber 08/22/17 3:20:16 AM #63:	Capn Circus posted... Dash_Harber posted... It's not exactly a person. It's Imperialism. Columbus was the first to sail in his day. Prior to that, the Scandinavians had already established colonies in present day Canada. There was knowledge of at least islands in between the west and China. However, it was the idea of imperialism that started the rush. It's the same idea that breathed life into the Scramble for Africa. So.. If Columbus didn't sail and didn't lead later colonization efforts---would Scandinavians have eventually reached out to broader Europe and said, "Hey guys, come on over!" and we would honor some random Scandinavian that may or may not have reached out to Europe? There are important people in history whether you want to believe so or not. The "idea" or "drive" for a people doesn't supersede one's actual accomplishments or work. Do we stop recognizing people who created technologies such as electricity or aviation simply because they were operating from previous knowledge? Should we not honor MLK because someone would have eventually led the Civil rights marches? First, I didn't say he wasn't important, I was answering who paved the way. Stop putting words in my mouth. Second, we can go through all the 'X couldn't have happened without Y, but Y couldn't have happened without Z", but it's not going to change the fact that Columbus didn't make any personal contributions to it beyond leading the initial voyage (along with three ships of crew, might I add) and had any other explorer done it, it wouldn't have effected the trajectory of colonization at all. <cite>Dash_Harber posted [p:885222075] in Who pathed... [t:75695317]...</cite> <quote><cite>Capn Circus posted...</cite> <quote><cite>Dash_Harber posted...</cite> <quote>It's not exactly a person. It's Imperialism. Columbus was the first to sail in his day. Prior to that, the Scandinavians had already established colonies in present day Canada. There was knowledge of at least islands in between the west and China. However, it was the idea of imperialism that started the rush. It's the same idea that breathed life into the Scramble for Africa.</quote> So.. If Columbus didn't sail and didn't lead later colonization efforts---would Scandinavians have eventually reached out to broader Europe and said, "Hey guys, come on over!" and we would honor some random Scandinavian that may or may not have reached out to Europe? There are important people in history whether you want to believe so or not. The "idea" or "drive" for a people doesn't supersede one's actual accomplishments or work. Do we stop recognizing people who created technologies such as electricity or aviation simply because they were operating from previous knowledge? Should we not honor MLK because someone would have eventually led the Civil rights marches?</quote> First, I didn't say he wasn't important, I was answering who paved the way. Stop putting words in my mouth. Second, we can go through all the 'X couldn't have happened without Y, but Y couldn't have happened without Z", but it's not going to change the fact that Columbus didn't make any personal contributions to it beyond leading the initial voyage (along with three ships of crew, might I add) and had any other explorer done it, it wouldn't have effected the trajectory of colonization at all.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Axiom 08/22/17 3:26:17 AM #64:	Aristoph posted... Capn Circus posted... Aristoph posted... No really. "pathed" Why is there not more attention on this? "Pathed" is correct. Just like some SJWs will tell you referring to people as "they" is correct. The word is "PAVED." As in "paving a street" or "putting down pavement." "Pathed" almost as stupid as "irregardless." Don't worry you're not the only one that noticed and laughed <cite>Axiom posted [p:885222197] in Who pathed... [t:75695317]...</cite> <quote><cite>Aristoph posted...</cite> <quote><cite>Capn Circus posted...</cite> <quote><cite>Aristoph posted...</cite> <quote>No really. "pathed" Why is there not more attention on this?</quote> "Pathed" is correct. Just like some SJWs will tell you referring to people as "they" is correct.</quote> The word is "PAVED." As in "paving a street" or "putting down pavement." "Pathed" almost as stupid as "irregardless."</quote> Don't worry you're not the only one that noticed and laughed</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
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Current Events > Who pathed the way for mass European colonization of the Americas? (+) Yeah! (+)

Current Events > Who pathed the way for mass European colonization of the Americas?