Current Events > When does banging your cousins stop being incest in genetic terms?

(+) Yeah! (+)

Basically at what generation is it open season?

I know having relations with first and second cousins are defintley incestuous but are third cousins and beyond okay?
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"was she my second or third cousin?"


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Asking for a friend?
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Just Google it. IIRC, first cousins have enough genetic diversity to avoid any problems caused by inbreeding (which is reproducing through your parents or siblings)
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Cousin marriage isn't incest... are Americans that misinformed? I always thought it interesting that usa has a weird hangup about cousin marriage when the rest of the world doesn't. Wonder what it stemmed from.
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pikachupwnage posted...

Asking for a friend?

Nope. Asking for me actually.

Writing purposes.
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Rule of thumb, if you have to look up a genealogy tree, it's not incest.
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Cousins isn't incest. I mean, its weird but genetically you're fine.
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First cousins have roughly the same genetic problems as people of that ethnicity chosen at random.
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When the kids don't have defects
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I figure as long as they are not from the same bloodline.

Cousin marriage isn't incest... are Americans that misinformed? I always thought it interesting that usa has a weird hangup about cousin marriage when the rest of the world doesn't. Wonder what it stemmed from.

Not sure.

Guess it's like hooking up with your stepsister's sister or something and people sees it as odd.
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saspa posted...

Cousin marriage isn't incest... are Americans that misinformed? I always thought it interesting that usa has a weird hangup about cousin marriage when the rest of the world doesn't. Wonder what it stemmed from.

hemophilia is great
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saspa posted...

Cousin marriage isn't incest... are Americans that misinformed? I always thought it interesting that usa has a weird hangup about cousin marriage when the rest of the world doesn't. Wonder what it stemmed from.

looks like this

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cousin_marriage

United States

Cousin marriage was legal in all states before the Civil War.[citation needed] Anthropologist Martin Ottenheimer argues that marriage prohibitions were introduced to maintain the social order, uphold religious morality, and safeguard the creation of fit offspring.[20] Writers such as Noah Webster (1758–1843) and ministers like Philip Milledoler (1775–1852) and Joshua McIlvaine helped lay the groundwork for such viewpoints well before 1860. This led to a gradual shift in concern from affinal unions, like those between a man and his deceased wife's sister, to consanguineous unions. By the 1870s, Lewis Henry Morgan (1818–1881) was writing about "the advantages of marriages between unrelated persons" and the necessity of avoiding "the evils of consanguine marriage", avoidance of which would "increase the vigor of the stock". To many, Morgan included, cousin marriage, and more specifically parallel-cousin marriage, was a remnant of a more primitive stage of human social organization.[21] Morgan himself had married his cousin in 1853.[22]

In 1846, Massachusetts Governor George N. Briggs appointed a commission to study "idiots" in the state, and this study implicated cousin marriage as responsible for idiocy. Within the next two decades, numerous reports (e.g., one from the Kentucky Deaf and Dumb Asylum) appeared with similar conclusions: that cousin marriage sometimes resulted in deafness, blindness, and idiocy. Perhaps most important was the report of physician Samuel Merrifield Bemiss for the American Medical Association, which concluded cousin inbreeding does lead to the physical and mental depravation of the offspring". Despite being contradicted by other studies like those of George Darwin and Alan Huth in England and Robert Newman in New York, the report's conclusions were widely accepted.[23]

These developments led to 13 states and territories passing cousin marriage prohibitions by the 1880s. Though contemporaneous, the eugenics movement did not play much of a direct role in the bans. George Louis Arner in 1908 considered the ban a clumsy and ineffective method of eugenics, which he thought would eventually be replaced by more refined techniques. By the 1920s, the number of bans had doubled.[5] Since that time, Kentucky (1943), Maine (1985) [ETA: First cousin marriage is legal in Maine so long as the couple undergoes genetic counseling to ensure that – should the couple wish to have children - there is little-to-no risk of serious health defect], and Texas (2005) have also banned cousin marriage. The National Conference of Commissioners on Uniform State Laws unanimously recommended in 1970 that all such laws should be repealed, but no state has dropped its prohibition.[3][10][24]
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darkphoenix181 posted...

saspa posted...

Cousin marriage isn't incest... are Americans that misinformed? I always thought it interesting that usa has a weird hangup about cousin marriage when the rest of the world doesn't. Wonder what it stemmed from.

looks like this

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cousin_marriage

United States

Cousin marriage was legal in all states before the Civil War.[citation needed] Anthropologist Martin Ottenheimer argues that marriage prohibitions were introduced to maintain the social order, uphold religious morality, and safeguard the creation of fit offspring.[20] Writers such as Noah Webster (1758–1843) and ministers like Philip Milledoler (1775–1852) and Joshua McIlvaine helped lay the groundwork for such viewpoints well before 1860. This led to a gradual shift in concern from affinal unions, like those between a man and his deceased wife's sister, to consanguineous unions. By the 1870s, Lewis Henry Morgan (1818–1881) was writing about "the advantages of marriages between unrelated persons" and the necessity of avoiding "the evils of consanguine marriage", avoidance of which would "increase the vigor of the stock". To many, Morgan included, cousin marriage, and more specifically parallel-cousin marriage, was a remnant of a more primitive stage of human social organization.[21] Morgan himself had married his cousin in 1853.[22]

In 1846, Massachusetts Governor George N. Briggs appointed a commission to study "idiots" in the state, and this study implicated cousin marriage as responsible for idiocy. Within the next two decades, numerous reports (e.g., one from the Kentucky Deaf and Dumb Asylum) appeared with similar conclusions: that cousin marriage sometimes resulted in deafness, blindness, and idiocy. Perhaps most important was the report of physician Samuel Merrifield Bemiss for the American Medical Association, which concluded cousin inbreeding does lead to the physical and mental depravation of the offspring". Despite being contradicted by other studies like those of George Darwin and Alan Huth in England and Robert Newman in New York, the report's conclusions were widely accepted.[23]

These developments led to 13 states and territories passing cousin marriage prohibitions by the 1880s. Though contemporaneous, the eugenics movement did not play much of a direct role in the bans. George Louis Arner in 1908 considered the ban a clumsy and ineffective method of eugenics, which he thought would eventually be replaced by more refined techniques. By the 1920s, the number of bans had doubled.[5] Since that time, Kentucky (1943), Maine (1985) [ETA: First cousin marriage is legal in Maine so long as the couple undergoes genetic counseling to ensure that – should the couple wish to have children - there is little-to-no risk of serious health defect], and Texas (2005) have also banned cousin marriage. The National Conference of Commissioners on Uniform State Laws unanimously recommended in 1970 that all such laws should be repealed, but no state has dropped its prohibition.[3][10][24]

I was always just told that God would put a curse on your children for any willy nillying.
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saspa posted...

Cousin marriage isn't incest... are Americans that misinformed? I always thought it interesting that usa has a weird hangup about cousin marriage when the rest of the world doesn't. Wonder what it stemmed from.

The shame of marrying your cousin all started here....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eRReRF7uKK0
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darkphoenix181 posted...

saspa posted...

Cousin marriage isn't incest... are Americans that misinformed? I always thought it interesting that usa has a weird hangup about cousin marriage when the rest of the world doesn't. Wonder what it stemmed from.

looks like this

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cousin_marriage

United States

Cousin marriage was legal in all states before the Civil War.[citation needed] Anthropologist Martin Ottenheimer argues that marriage prohibitions were introduced to maintain the social order, uphold religious morality, and safeguard the creation of fit offspring.[20] Writers such as Noah Webster (1758–1843) and ministers like Philip Milledoler (1775–1852) and Joshua McIlvaine helped lay the groundwork for such viewpoints well before 1860. This led to a gradual shift in concern from affinal unions, like those between a man and his deceased wife's sister, to consanguineous unions. By the 1870s, Lewis Henry Morgan (1818–1881) was writing about "the advantages of marriages between unrelated persons" and the necessity of avoiding "the evils of consanguine marriage", avoidance of which would "increase the vigor of the stock". To many, Morgan included, cousin marriage, and more specifically parallel-cousin marriage, was a remnant of a more primitive stage of human social organization.[21] Morgan himself had married his cousin in 1853.[22]

In 1846, Massachusetts Governor George N. Briggs appointed a commission to study "idiots" in the state, and this study implicated cousin marriage as responsible for idiocy. Within the next two decades, numerous reports (e.g., one from the Kentucky Deaf and Dumb Asylum) appeared with similar conclusions: that cousin marriage sometimes resulted in deafness, blindness, and idiocy. Perhaps most important was the report of physician Samuel Merrifield Bemiss for the American Medical Association, which concluded cousin inbreeding does lead to the physical and mental depravation of the offspring". Despite being contradicted by other studies like those of George Darwin and Alan Huth in England and Robert Newman in New York, the report's conclusions were widely accepted.[23]

These developments led to 13 states and territories passing cousin marriage prohibitions by the 1880s. Though contemporaneous, the eugenics movement did not play much of a direct role in the bans. George Louis Arner in 1908 considered the ban a clumsy and ineffective method of eugenics, which he thought would eventually be replaced by more refined techniques. By the 1920s, the number of bans had doubled.[5] Since that time, Kentucky (1943), Maine (1985) [ETA: First cousin marriage is legal in Maine so long as the couple undergoes genetic counseling to ensure that – should the couple wish to have children - there is little-to-no risk of serious health defect], and Texas (2005) have also banned cousin marriage. The National Conference of Commissioners on Uniform State Laws unanimously recommended in 1970 that all such laws should be repealed, but no state has dropped its prohibition.[3][10][24]

Huh. It really shows how America is such a young country still trying to "find itself" so to speak. Like the continued stubborn use of the imperial system (even if it is aptly named) and fahrenheit, this is one of those things that permeates American media and is absolutely bizarre when you see it, especially as an outside watching tv shows where the characters act all fearful of having a crush on their cousin. Or Godfather 3's stupid plot.

For me, it's particularly ironic because if they cared about "vigor of stock" you'd think they'd want to encourage more interracial marriages back then for some genetically diverse mixed race children but we all know what history was like for non-whites in the country...
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So those marriage bans, if you get married where its legal and go somewhere it isn't...? I think the gays were having similar issues in recent years concerning insurance benefits and medical decisions, etc.
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Anteaterking posted...

First cousins have roughly the same genetic problems as people of that ethnicity chosen at random.

What if you and your first cousins both have an identical dad?
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When you go to Japan, incest risks go away. Watch some anime as proof yo
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SSJ2Gogeto posted...

Anteaterking posted...

First cousins have roughly the same genetic problems as people of that ethnicity chosen at random.

What if you and your first cousins both have an identical dad?

Then they wouldn't be your cousin, I think?
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Funkydog posted...

SSJ2Gogeto posted...

Anteaterking posted...

First cousins have roughly the same genetic problems as people of that ethnicity chosen at random.

What if you and your first cousins both have an identical dad?

Then they wouldn't be your cousin, I think?

No I mean if your dad is their dad's identical twin.
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Its only incest if the branches touch.
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I want to remember reading somewhere that having a child with your cousin got the same problem probability as having a child with a 36 years old female, or something like that.
Now if your family keeps it going with cousins for 4-5 generations, then we start to get problems.
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Foppe posted...

problem probability as having a child with a 36 years old female

Which is a bit misleading. The chance of birth defects at that age doubles... from 0.5% to 1%. Assuming there are not other factors of course.
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