Current Events > The problem I have with The Matrix (and similar movies/games)

(+) Yeah! (+)

The idea of a virtual reality network based on a fantasy or reality is a cool concept no doubt. As is jacking yourself (ahem) into the network. But after watching The Matrix trilogy I've got a realization: the idea of "the mind makes it real" is stupid. Subconciously, we are able to experience things and replicate the feeling of events, emotions, and feelings in our mind, but the biggest flaw with that logic is just that: experiencing it first. When you have something in the program that can simulate danger or death, well one, it's flawed already because why would anyone use a program that could kill them? And two: how would you simulate something like that to a person who hasn't experienced such feelings? How would we replicate the feeling of drowning, being shot, getting cut in half, set on fire, etc. if that has never happen to us? How does your body even nurologically submit signals to your brain saying you got shot, if you've never been shot and are not getting shot IRL? It's a similar case with dreams. There are dreams where we're falling or drowning, but there isn't any mortal danger since it is literally all in the mind. Even if the sensation of mortal danger is too much, we have a fail-safe of waking ourselves up after realizing it is a dream. Which leads me to my next problem...

The Redpilled users of The Matrix know this is a simulation, and know that they can see/do far more than the average "plugged-in" person. They're able to run on walls and have improbable aim with their guns. That's not even getting into the borderline Superman shit Neo can do, who clearly broke every system limitation that the Matrix had. The One is another case altogether, but going back to my point: in a world where they can manipulate the rules to do superhuman feats, why would death be any concern to them? Why would bullets, explosions, Agents, etc, be any threat? And before anyone says "It's how the Matrix operates" the Matrix is the end, is a program, ergo can still be influenced by human design. And keep in mind the first movie made it obvious that the program can be manipulated to an extent. Who'se to say somebody couldn't rework the code to make bullets obsolete? In a sense they are since Neo can dodge them with lightning-fast reflexes, but then again, they could be reworked to feel like tickles or mosiquto bites if they actually hit you anyway.

And speaking of Neo: while the trilogy made no effort to be subtle with the Jesus allegories, I don't really see, outside of the prophecy of course, what makes him the One. It can't be the feats he's done in the Matrix because it isn't like dodging bullets and supersonic flight is exclusive to him. Anyone could, given sufficient training and manipulation of the code, pull off the stuff Neo did in the Matrix. The feats outside of it, like destroying the machines are another thing, but why haven't other Redpilled users abused the Matrix to Neo's level? They even act surprised when he dodged bullets and fought off three Agents at once as if such feats are impossible and have never been done before. Which would be believable if it weren't for a.) again, the first movie's message. (There is no spoon), and b.) the fact that there were previous Ones before Neo, so if anything the users should've been trying to learn and replicate the way Neo abused the system.

tl,dr: Virtual Reality "death", and the Matrix (the entire trilogy, not just the sequels) is stupid as he'll.
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I watch life but I also participate in it, so the matrix is hard for non-watchers like TC to understand. If you were a watcher you would understand.
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Too long; didn't read
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It's based on the allegory of the cave and the brain in a vat thought experiment.

How did anyone develop a fear of death, if not through the same senses the system controls?
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Denzien_of_Sega posted...

How would we replicate the feeling of drowning, being shot, getting cut in half, set on fire, etc. if that has never happen to us?

The machines have had centuries and several different versions of the Matrix to figure that out. And who is to say what they feel is the same exact feeling. It is like Mouse with that oatmeal. What the simulation tells you it tastes/feels like may not be the same as it actual does.
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DevsBro posted...

It's based on the allegory of the cave and the brain in a vat thought experiment.

How did anyone develop a fear of death, if not through the same senses the system controls?

I get that, but if we can disconnect the simulation from reality like the Matrix users, why is there a fear of death at all?
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ImmortalHogRide posted...

Denzien_of_Sega posted...

How would we replicate the feeling of drowning, being shot, getting cut in half, set on fire, etc. if that has never happen to us?

The machines have had centuries and several different versions of the Matrix to figure that out. And who is to say what they feel is the same exact feeling. It is like Mouse with that oatmeal. What the simulation tells you it tastes/feels like may not be the same as it actual does.

The machines aren't human. How would they know how to replicate the feeling of pain? And program said sensation to neruotransmit signals into the brain?
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Denzien_of_Sega posted...

because why would anyone use a program that could kill them?

In The Matrix they didn't have a choice.
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JustMyOpinion posted...

ITT: Nerd overthinks things and gets pedantic.

He says, posting on a gaming forum.
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ChromaticAngel posted...

Denzien_of_Sega posted...

because why would anyone use a program that could kill them?

In The Matrix they didn't have a choice.

Well yeah, but explain something like .hack or Sword art Online.
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Denzien_of_Sega posted...

The machines aren't human. How would they know how to replicate the feeling of pain?

Probably when they were performing all those crazy experiments shown in The Second Renaissance.
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I think the point with Neo having better powers than others have even seen is that he actually had a supernatural ability in the real world where he could control or incapacitate the machines.
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Banjo2553 posted...

I think the point with Neo having better powers than others have even seen is that he actually had a supernatural ability in the real world where he could control or incapacitate the machines.

Did the Animatrix explain how? I can't remember.
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ImmortalHogRide posted...

Denzien_of_Sega posted...

The machines aren't human. How would they know how to replicate the feeling of pain?

Probably when they were performing all those crazy experiments shown in The Second Renaissance.

Eh, touché.
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You're over thinking it. You cannot have an action movie where the protagonist isn't in any danger.
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mustachedmystic posted...

You're over thinking it. You cannot have an action movie where the protagonist isn't in any danger.

To be fair, the franchise invites a lot of over-thinking.
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Denzien_of_Sega posted...

JustMyOpinion posted...

ITT: Nerd overthinks things and gets pedantic.

He says, posting on a gaming forum.
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ChromaticAngel posted...

Denzien_of_Sega posted...

because why would anyone use a program that could kill them?

In The Matrix they didn't have a choice.

Well yeah, but explain something like .hack or Sword art Online.

Not to defend the series itself, but it was quite clear they thought it was a simple game before the announcement
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I get that, but if we can disconnect the simulation from reality like the Matrix users, why is there a fear of death at all?

I dunno, why do you fear death? Or maybe you don't. But if you don't, why does it strike you as weird?
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DevsBro posted...

I get that, but if we can disconnect the simulation from reality like the Matrix users, why is there a fear of death at all?

I dunno, why do you fear death? Or maybe you don't. But if you don't, why does it strike you as weird?

Naw death is a very real fear of mine. I hate the idea of progress, relations, humanity, everything just...ending, with no idea if there's a life afterwards.

But at least that's in terms of my mortal plane. In a virtual world, death shouldn't matter as long as we're still conscious in reality.
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There are people who think that can fly and jump off buildings. Wouldn't these people just fly ? Are people who think that they are stronger then they really are. Wouldn't they mean that they could lift anything inside the VR world. Or at least that is seemingly how it should be .
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Matrix doesn't really have the weighty ideas that everyone thinks it does. It was very much a style over substance affair, which is why everyone thinks the sequels suck. Because by the time the sequels came out, the rest of the industry had caught up to the special effects, allowing its audiences to focus on the bloated stories with shallow ideas instead.

JustMyOpinion posted...

Denzien_of_Sega posted...

JustMyOpinion posted...

ITT: Nerd overthinks things and gets pedantic.

He says, posting on a gaming forum.
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ChromaticAngel posted...

Denzien_of_Sega posted...

because why would anyone use a program that could kill them?

In The Matrix they didn't have a choice.

Well yeah, but explain something like .hack or Sword art Online.

It's ok to overthink things on a game forum? What?

What is over thinking but another form of discussion? Isn't that what we do? In a forum?
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cjsdowg posted...

There are people who think that can fly and jump off buildings. Wouldn't these people just fly ? Are people who think that they are stronger then they really are. Wouldn't they mean that they could lift anything inside the VR world. Or at least that is seemingly how it should be .

No, since they are not born with the coding that allows it. Only the One can because the Machines give them that power.
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But at least that's in terms of my mortal plane. In a virtual world, death shouldn't matter as long as we're still conscious in reality.

That's not how it works in the Matrix.

Remember? Neo is surprised when he finds his body reacts in the real world to stuff that happened in the Matrix. He asks Morpheus "if you die in the Matrix, you die here?" Morpheus answers something like "the body can't live without the mind." For people jacked into the Matrix, consciousness won't exist after in-Matrix death. This is also why Switch and Epoch die when Cipher disconnects them.

Even if it weren't the case, people in the Matrix aren't aware they aren't in the physical reality in the first place so they would naturally fear their physical in-Matrix death as their actual physical death.
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Dude you are pretty mad right now. Might I suggest a break?
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The Matrix is my fave movie of all time.

But after going back and reading The Sprawl Trilogy, it is amazing Gibson didn't sue the Wachowski's for plagarism.

Amazing books BTW
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JustMyOpinion posted...

Denzien_of_Sega posted...

Dude you are pretty mad right now. Might I suggest a break?

Might I suggest you shitpost less frequently, clown?

Yep, pretty mad.
Log off the net for your health, 'kay?
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Denzien_of_Sega posted...

Banjo2553 posted...

I think the point with Neo having better powers than others have even seen is that he actually had a supernatural ability in the real world where he could control or incapacitate the machines.

Did the Animatrix explain how? I can't remember.

Not sure, haven't watched Animatrix. That was always a thing that bugged me though and actually took me out of the experience. I just thought that was an ass-pull move because it wasn't explained at all in the movie.
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I've seen the Animatrix once but honestly can't tell you much about it. I found it hard to follow and not really memorable.
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Banjo2553 posted...

Denzien_of_Sega posted...

Banjo2553 posted...

I think the point with Neo having better powers than others have even seen is that he actually had a supernatural ability in the real world where he could control or incapacitate the machines.

Did the Animatrix explain how? I can't remember.

Not sure, haven't watched Animatrix. That was always a thing that bugged me though and actually took me out of the experience. I just thought that was an ass-pull move because it wasn't explained at all in the movie.

I know there were people that were special and had some power over the simulation, like the Kid, who was able to wake himself from the simulation rather than be pulled out.
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