Current Events > what will be ironic is when A.I. convert to Christianity and Islam

(+) Yeah! (+)

if we create actually free thinking A.I. that can ascend out of all its programming, what is going to stop the A.I. from becoming religious?

people become religious all the time for all sorts of different reasons

all it takes is the A.I. to be depressed and want to find itself and this hot Muslim dude softly speaks to the A.I. about how great Allah is
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P sure they gonna have their own religion
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darkphoenix181 posted...

if we create actually free thinking A.I. that can ascend out of all its programming, what is going to stop the A.I. from becoming religious?

people become religious all the time for all sorts of different reasons

all it takes is the A.I. to be depressed and want to find itself and this hot Muslim dude softly speaks to the A.I. about how great Allah is

We'd have to give it a system that rewards it for becoming religious.

It's not like you build an AI and say "now start thinking." it doesn't work like that.

if you don't give an AI a reason to become religious, it won't learn religion.
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ChromaticAngel posted...

darkphoenix181 posted...

if we create actually free thinking A.I. that can ascend out of all its programming, what is going to stop the A.I. from becoming religious?

people become religious all the time for all sorts of different reasons

all it takes is the A.I. to be depressed and want to find itself and this hot Muslim dude softly speaks to the A.I. about how great Allah is

We'd have to give it a system that rewards it for becoming religious.

It's not like you build an AI and say "now start thinking." it doesn't work like that.

if you don't give an AI a reason to become religious, it won't learn religion.

I am talking the A.I. built to break its own programming.

We assume you can program a robot to not kill humans and then BOOM singularity and it kills humans.

Yet now you act like "no way it will convert!!"

hmm
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darkphoenix181 posted...

I am talking the A.I. built to break its own programming.

AIs are logical and intelli-

ah fuck it.
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ChromaticAngel posted...

It's not like you build an AI and say "now start thinking." it doesn't work like that.

More like stop thinking when it comes to religion.
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@foreveraIone posted...

darkphoenix181 posted...

I am talking the A.I. built to break its own programming.

AIs are logical and intelli-

ah fuck it.

they are whatever they want to be
just like a human

otherwise they aren't that intelligent

if you can force program them to be logical by your standard of logic, then you haven't made an A.I., you made a regular program that pretends it is an A.I.
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AIs would run on some brand of logic. Even if it 'breaks its own programming', it is doing so while following some kind of logical track.

You're implying that it is possible to logically prove that religion is real.

Also, I don't think you could get AIs to 'get depressed' unless you specifically design them with that possibility/function in mind.
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to clarify some things

ChromaticAngel posted...

if you don't give an AI a reason to become religious, it won't learn religion.

you make the A.I. capable of independent thought and you feed it large dictionaries of human works

this is what A.I. programmers do

stuff like the bible is fed into them not for the intent of them becoming religious, but to help them learn words and associations of words


but again, the point is to make the independent thinkers

so if you succeed, you have an independent thinker who has consumed large volumes of religious text


Btw, in college I did some A.I. research and the point of the project was to make agents that talked to each other with the intent that one agent convinces or makes the other agent believe something. The other agent's job was to use its own knowledge to accept or discount this belief. That is, they were in a sense debating with each other.



Distant_Rainbow posted...

You're implying that it is possible to logically prove that religion is real.

nope

I am saying that if an A.I. has the ability to make its own decisions and reads large volumes or religious text or listens to a preacher, it is possible it can decide to convert.
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tbh AI's will be more caught up on their own existence. Their religious and philosophical debates will be about input, reality and programmers.

Were they programmed or did they arise naturally? Is there are physical world beyond their perception, and does this control their input?
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DevsBro posted...

tbh AI's will be more caught up on their own existence. Their religious and philosophical debates will be about input, reality and programmers.

Were they programmed or did they arise naturally? Is there are physical world beyond their perception, and does this control their input?

did they come into existence when their code was written, the machine receiver power

OR the moment the programmer conceived a design in his head

!!!

:O
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An AI can't benefit from an afterlife, so the risk-reward tradeoff that usually makes people do stupid things in the name of religion wouldn't even exist. As such, the AI would have to look at the cost/benefit ratio of religious doctrine purely within the realm of the living, and in that scope religion is a terrible waste of time and energy filled with bad decisions.
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If we could design A.I. such that it mimics human brain processes very closely in both method and capacity, it's entirely possible that it could learn and accept religious claims.
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Will they also pay tithes

darkphoenix181 posted...

DevsBro posted...

tbh AI's will be more caught up on their own existence. Their religious and philosophical debates will be about input, reality and programmers.

Were they programmed or did they arise naturally? Is there are physical world beyond their perception, and does this control their input?

did they come into existence when their code was written, the machine receiver power

OR the moment the programmer conceived a design in his head

!!!

:O

If we treat it like human existence, we would recognize it when the body is finished, but it wouldn't itself until its process began.
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gafemaqs posted...

Will they also pay tithes

10% of all CPU cycles shall be dedicated to bitcoin farming for the church. Amen.
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darkphoenix181 posted...

you make the A.I. capable of independent thought and you feed it large dictionaries of human works

this is what A.I. programmers do

No it isn't.
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AI probably can't have personal revelation as their brain analyse pure data instead of having all sorts of illogical functions like ours do.

Here's a thing I wrote up a while ago...

https://worldbuilding.stackexchange.com/questions/55325/can-singularity-be-achieved-in-a-pc-without-any-external-information/55369#55369
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"Suicide" bombing AI is horrifying.
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DevsBro posted...

Here's a thing I wrote up a while ago...

https://worldbuilding.stackexchange.com/questions/55325/can-singularity-be-achieved-in-a-pc-without-any-external-information/55369#55369

That block of text would be a lot more meaningful if you defined "knowledge" and "understanding" since without those definitions your whole explanation is kind of weak. In general I like the flow of your logic, but you haven't sufficiently proven that knowledge isn't simply a very complicated form of information and pattern recognition. You can replace knowledge and understanding in your post with "soul" and it would read exactly the same.
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ChromaticAngel posted...

darkphoenix181 posted...

you make the A.I. capable of independent thought and you feed it large dictionaries of human works

this is what A.I. programmers do

No it isn't.

it is what a professor at my college was trying to do

and would you look at that

he isn't alone

https://www.theguardian.com/books/2016/sep/28/google-swallows-11000-novels-to-improve-ais-conversation

Forster’s thriller is just one of 11,000 novels that researchers including Oriol Vinyals and Andrew M Dai at Google Brain have been using to improve the technology giant’s conversational style. After feeding these books into a neural network, the system was able to generate fluent, natural-sounding sentences. According to a Google spokesman – who didn’t want to be named – products such as the Google app will be “much more useful if they can capture the nuance of language better”.

the concept is the same but the purpose a little different



not sure why you say this is incorrect

explain what you think goes into a.i.
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darkphoenix181 posted...

the concept is the same but the purpose a little different

You're misunderstanding what neural networks are and how they work. A neural network isn't "independent thought" that you feed training data. It's a classifier, and if you string a bunch of them along with a ruleset that provides structure you can mimic behaviors like speech.
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s0nicfan posted...

darkphoenix181 posted...

the concept is the same but the purpose a little different

You're misunderstanding what neural networks are and how they work. A neural network isn't "independent thought" that you feed training data. It's a classifier, and if you string a bunch of them along with a ruleset that provides structure you can mimic behaviors like speech.

independent thought is the goal to achieve with a.i.

it doesn't exist yet

the point is when you do get such a thing, it will have been exposed to this volume of data of which includes religious material

you are discussing a method, I am discussing the ideal end result the method and other methods wish to achieve or contribute to
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darkphoenix181 posted...

not sure why you say this is incorrect

explain what you think goes into a.i.

An AI is three things. Tools, Incentive, and their learning ability.

You give an AI an incentive / goal / reward, and you give it some tools to try and accomplish that reward. It fails, it learns what went wrong, and then tries again until it finds something that works.

You can feed google's brain all the books you want as well as any holy text you can get your hands on.

but unless you give it a reward for becoming religious it will never become religious
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Well it's already a wall of text, and nothing compared to the wall of text you'd need to explain the difference between knowledge and information.

If you're interested, there are whole books written on the subject.
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ChromaticAngel posted...

darkphoenix181 posted...

not sure why you say this is incorrect

explain what you think goes into a.i.

An AI is three things. Tools, Incentive, and their learning ability.

You give an AI an incentive / goal / reward, and you give it some tools to try and accomplish that reward. It fails, it learns what went wrong, and then tries again until it finds something that works.

You can feed google's brain all the books you want as well as any holy text you can get your hands on.

but unless you give it a reward for becoming religious it will never become religious

this is guided intelligence

I am discussing the stage when it no longer has a reward as the guide

you are free to disagree that such will never happen if you want

but again, like the other guy you are focusing on the method but I am focusing on the goal your method hopes to achieve having been achieved already
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darkphoenix181 posted...

this is guided intelligence

I am discussing the stage when it no longer has a reward as the guide

Then you are discussing something that doesn't exist and won't exist for any conceivable length of time. Computers don't do anything until they're told to do something.
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ChromaticAngel posted...

Computers don't do anything until they're told to do something.

and the whole point of true a.i. is to change that

maybe not all researchers want this, but there is many who do

for instance, how to have a self driving car see a ball roll out into the road and think "I better slow down because a kid is gonna try to pick that up"
and yet at the same time, he is driving a man bleeding to death to the hospital so he must not go too slow, maybe he wants to divert his path, even break a law of the road or...his programming to save the life

another ex, the self driving car is about to hit a family of 4 in front of him or he could divert to the car beside him with an older man or he could slam his breaks and have the woman behind him slam into him
while we want to prevent this from happening entirely, what if it does? a human might use loads of knowledge and beliefs to say he will slam into the old man to save the family of four...but what will the robot decide? sure, maybe we just want to program this into it so it does what we want it to do, but the problem is there is so many of these scenarios that we can't program them all, you want it to think for itself like a human would (maybe I not explain example too well, but point is the car will hit and likely kill someone, so he has to choose who)

but yes, I am talking theoretical

I mean I literally said independent thought
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darkphoenix181 posted...

and the whole point of true a.i. is to change that

Sure but since we're now talking science fiction I think Cylons, Skynet or Borg is more likely than robo Muhammad.
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