Current Events > Consciousness is weird when you think about it.

(+) Yeah! (+)

Like my mind didn't exist then suddenly it existed and then one day it will go again.

Where did it come from? Perhaps it will come from nothing again in the future? who knows, It happened once already.

Decartes dualism
---

Milo Yappadoopoodooki
---

HBOSS posted...

Decartes dualism

Exactly.

get out of my head
---

Consciousness is a bunk construct, only used to reinforce metaphysical interpretations of the mind, to elevate subjective experience to a supernatural realm. Probably due to a weird combination of narcicism and nonreligious spirituality that seems endemic amongst those who discuss it.
---

chill02 posted...

get out of my head

shut the fuck up

COVxy posted...

Consciousness is a bunk construct, only used to reinforce metaphysical interpretations of the mind, to elevate subjective experience to a supernatural realm. Probably due to a weird combination of narcicism and nonreligious spirituality that seems endemic amongst those who discuss it.

that is an overly verbose way of saying that dudes with egos seem to glorify thought.
---

consciousness is an illusion
---

orcus_snake posted...

that is an overly verbose way of saying that dudes with egos seem to glorify thought.

Thought is profound, subjective experience of thought is not.
---

COVxy posted...

orcus_snake posted...

that is an overly verbose way of saying that dudes with egos seem to glorify thought.

Thought is profound, subjective experience of thought is not.

Bullshit man, people underselling consciousness is a clear example of people totally overstepping the limits of their knowledge.

The idea can also totally coexist with physical interpretations of the brain. Don't cofuse consciousness with the idea of a soul or whatever, subjective experience is trivially a real thing and totally unexplained.

If you can explain any unique contribution of the concept consciousness to brain function, I'll revoke my statement. However, as it currently stands, consciousness is just a poorly defined unfalsifiable construct that lays vestigial on top of actually well defined constructs within cognitive neuroscience.
---

Some things are incomprehensible. That's what makes life interesting.
---

It's all biology man
---

Consciousness does nothing. So immediately if you think about it for any amount of time, you already get the idea that it's a silly idea.

Working memory holds information temporarily after the physical information is gone. Provide me a definition like that.
---

The Universe(God) itself is conscious, Your own consciousness is a reflection of that fact
---

It is weird.
---

i am because i am
---

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VVro5wxqh4U
---

COVxy posted...

If you can explain any unique contribution of the concept consciousness to brain function, I'll revoke my statement. However, as it currently stands, consciousness is just a poorly defined unfalsifiable construct that lays vestigial on top of actually well defined constructs within cognitive neuroscience.

If I could adequately connect the idea of consciousness to brain function I would have an enormous answer to the question of consciousness. You're mistaking the answer for the question.

That doesn't mean it doesn't exist. Of course it does, but it can't be explained in terms of other fundmentally different things. It would be like denying the perception of sight exists because you can't explain the qualitative experience in terms of hearing.

Again, without any proper definition, you're just elevating subjective sense because it feels profound, not because it is. "Consciousness" can be fully explained in reference to other better defined neuroscience constructs, but you don't feel like it answers the question of consciousness only because they are mechanistic, physical and not metaphysical.
---

COVxy posted...

Again, without any proper definition, you're just elevating subjective sense because it feels profound, not because it is. "Consciousness" can be fully explained in reference to other better defined neuroscience constructs, but you don't feel like it answers the question of consciousness only because they are mechanistic, physical and not metaphysical.

I'm not elevating anything, I'm acknowledging it exists, which you seem to be denying. Your comfort in the existence of anything is honestly baffling if you won't even accept the existence of the thing with which you experience literally everything you claim is real.

i am because you are
---

I'm not too sure you are understanding what I'm saying.
---

Imagine believing you know anything lol!!!
---

COVxy posted...

I'm not too sure you are understanding what I'm saying.

I'm not too sure you're understanding what I'm saying, but I've been trying to clarify and I was hoping you'd do the same. That's usually how discussions work.

Sometimes I move my fingers, then I look down at them, and I'm like "what the **** is going on?"
---

I've never denied the existence of subjective experience, only that it can be explained more appropriately without invoking an additional construct like consciousness. That "consciousness" is, in fact, well on its way to being understood under such other more valid cognitive neuroscience constructs such as "visual processing", "attention", "working memory".
---

we are because i am
---

COVxy posted...

I've never denied the existence of subjective experience, only that it can be explained more appropriately without invoking an additional construct like consciousness. That "consciousness" is, in fact, well on its way to being understood under such other more valid cognitive neuroscience constructs such as "visual processing", "attention", "working memory".

Those things are not consciousness. Those concepts certainly influnce consciousness, but consciousness itself is, as I am referring to it, the subjective experience itself.

There is no understanding of why visual processing, attention, and working memory give rise to this thing called subjective experience, and that is the question at stake.

When they correlate pretty directly with subjective experience, it's weird to suggest that they aren't.
---

COVxy posted...

orcus_snake posted...

that is an overly verbose way of saying that dudes with egos seem to glorify thought.

Thought is profound, subjective experience of thought is not.

I mean, we could debate it, but what could prove either of us right.
---

COVxy posted...

When they correlate pretty directly with subjective experience, it's weird to suggest that they aren't.

I'm not suggesting the brain is processing things that correlate with consciousness by coincidence. The brain certainly dictates the nature of your subjective experience. But if you really accept that subjective experience is real, I have a hard time understanding how you could call the processes which dictate our consciousness consciousness itself.

MJ_Max posted...

I have a hard time understanding how you could call the processes which dictate our consciousness consciousness itself.

How? Doing otherwise would be self contradiction lol
---

COVxy posted...

MJ_Max posted...

I have a hard time understanding how you could call the processes which dictate our consciousness consciousness itself.

How? Doing otherwise would be self contradiction lol

How? Distinguishing between a cause of something and the effect is a contradiction?

If consciousness is fully determined by another set of parameters, how is it not necessary to define it by those parameters? Why would you ever say "No no no, but that doesn't fully explain it, because it doesn't feel right, you need to explain consciousness!"

Like, if I had a model that fully determined you conscious perception and it was composed of mechanistic neuroscientific elements, you would still say that we don't really understand consciousness. But what is it exactly we aren't understanding?

We've had a pretty good understanding on how the brain computes visual objects for decades now.

I can stick you in a giant magnet and with a simple set of linear equations I can determine what spatial position you are holding in your mind currently, I can decode that representation, from a very basic neuroscientifically based model.

Idk what would actually suffice as an explanation for subjective experience other than a metaphysical one for you. Think carefully and consider what would actually satisfy you.
---

COVxy posted...

I'm having trouble gathering my thoughts but I'll get back to you.

Actually nvm I don't feel like continuing this discussion I'd rather play dark souls

You made some good points though and I'mma definitely keep thinking about them

yeah consciousness is a pretty weird thing man

There's no way to prove that your consciousness doesn't die every night you go to sleep with a new one taking over when you wake up.
---

Atoms that know they're atoms are fucking amazing
---

Consciousness is just what we tend to call our ability to think and perceive the world around us. Since, for the longest time, we had fairly limited ability to study other animals or even ourselves, and a near limitless well of opportunity to consider the supernatural, common thought lead to consciousness being either a gift from gods or even a portion of godhood itself. Likewise, even as we developed greater ability to study the mind, we still found ourselves trapped in what may very likely be a necessary concept of what we commonly consider our minds to be: The ghost in the machine; some peculiar non-physical or non-natural feature which dictates our extraordinary ability to perceive not only the world around us but to also fabricate possibilities and even realize some of them. Even as supernatural declined, it still lingers in the form of the "mind" or simply as "consciousness."
---

MJ_Max posted...

Actually nvm I don't feel like continuing this discussion I'd rather play dark souls

You made some good points though and I'mma definitely keep thinking about them

Fair enough, probably a better use of time, tbh.
---

COVxy posted...

Consciousness is a bunk construct, only used to reinforce metaphysical interpretations of the mind, to elevate subjective experience to a supernatural realm. Probably due to a weird combination of narcicism and nonreligious spirituality that seems endemic amongst those who discuss it.

lmao, nice joke post COVxy
---

If you continue resorting to probability, it becomes apparent you don't know.
---

Silly goose.
---

Octaivian_Rex posted...

There's no way to prove that your consciousness doesn't die every night you go to sleep with a new one taking over when you wake up.

I've had this thought before.

Consciousness is memory. You only know how to walk, your language, the whole story of your life, etc. through memory. Where that memory is stored as information is kind of weird though. Likely in the fat, meaty substance protected by your skull.
---